EVE Search - Nerfing, Suicide Ganking, Incentives,and The Future....

Search EVE-Online forums for:

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

Nerfing, Suicide Ganking, Incentives,and The Future....

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 :: one page

Author	Topic
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:12:00 - [211] Originally by: Malin0 "Your position is that it is not possible, in general, to kill a player, while that player is running a mission?" Anyone who's had this done to them either in a mission or mining in high sec must be wondering at this guy. And if you don't know how it's done I'm certainly not going to tell you (and no it dosn't involve suicide ganking). Mal "In general" allows for stupid people firing at loot thieves. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:13:00 - [212] Originally by: Karii Ildarian So if a player does, in fact, get ganked while running a mission, you believe that this is some sort of exploit? No, I believe the ganked player was stupid. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Malin0	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:14:00 - [213] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Karii Ildarian So if a player does, in fact, get ganked while running a mission, you believe that this is some sort of exploit? No, I believe the ganked player was stupid. These being the same players who would normally have fallen to a suicide gank? Mal
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:15:00 - [214] Originally by: Malin0 These being the same players who would normally have fallen to a suicide gank? Mal What? I thought you said you wheren't talking about suicide ganks. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Malin0	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:15:00 - [215] wasn't me who said that. Mal
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:16:00 - [216] Originally by: Malin0 Edited by: Malin0 on 03/09/2008 14:12:09 "Your position is that it is not possible, in general, to kill a player, while that player is running a mission?" Anyone who's had this done to them either in a mission or mining in high sec must be wondering at you Kai An. And if you don't know how it's done I'm certainly not going to tell you (and no it dosn't involve suicide ganking). Mal Are you using the wrong alt, because that was definately you. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Malin0	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:20:00 - [217] Misunderstood you. You said only a stupid person would shoot a thief in a mission and get ganked and my comment was it's the same "stupid" people who'd do that as would go afk with a 1.5 billion Isk ship (or alternative)and fall foul to a suicide gank. Mal
Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:28:00 - [218] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Karii Ildarian So if a player does, in fact, get ganked while running a mission, you believe that this is some sort of exploit? No, I believe the ganked player was stupid. So in fact, it is possible, to kill a player, without exploits, while that player is running a mission. Editorializing about the players mental disposition aside, thanks for your answer. So here we have it. A mission runner: 1. Risks his ship to PvE rats during missions. 2. Engages in PvP when using the market to convert his loot/salvage into ISK, not just against non-mission runners, but against other mission runners as well since missions are an unrestricted isk/material resource to every single player in the game. 3. Engages in market PvP, again, not just against non-mission runners, when he manufactures items with the resources and attempts to sell them. 4. Risks his loot/salvage being stolen, while he is actually engaged in a mission. 5. Risks actually being killed by another player, (otherwise known as PVP) while engaged in a mission. According to you, all these things reflect the current state of the game. Is that correct?
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:30:00 - [219] Originally by: Karii Ildarian Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Karii Ildarian So if a player does, in fact, get ganked while running a mission, you believe that this is some sort of exploit? No, I believe the ganked player was stupid. So in fact, it is possible, to kill a player, without exploits, while that player is running a mission. Editorializing about the players mental disposition aside, thanks for your answer. So here we have it. A mission runner: 1. Risks his ship to PvE rats during missions. 2. Engages in PvP when using the market to convert his loot/salvage into ISK, not just against non-mission runners, but against other mission runners as well since missions are an unrestricted isk/material resource to every single player in the game. 3. Engages in market PvP, again, not just against non-mission runners, when he manufactures items with the resources and attempts to sell them. 4. Risks his loot/salvage being stolen, while he is actually engaged in a mission. 5. Risks actually being killed by another player, (otherwise known as PVP) while engaged in a mission. According to you, all these things reflect the current state of the game. Is that correct? Nope, this is your finished straw man. This argument fails to adhere to any of the realities of the game, and is in fact far from the real truth. However, since all these points are technical truths, they hold up as a straw man argument. Well done, it only took you 10 posts to work it together. Now, go kill yourself (in game) as you are so completely obvious that I had you figured from your first post. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:31:00 - [220] Originally by: Malin0 Misunderstood you. You said only a stupid person would shoot a thief in a mission and get ganked and my comment was it's the same "stupid" people who'd do that as would go afk with a 1.5 billion Isk ship (or alternative)and fall foul to a suicide gank. Mal I don't know. There are many stupid people playing Eve. One of them is trying to put together a straw man in this very thread. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting

Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:34:00 - [221] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Karii Ildarian Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Karii Ildarian So if a player does, in fact, get ganked while running a mission, you believe that this is some sort of exploit? No, I believe the ganked player was stupid. So in fact, it is possible, to kill a player, without exploits, while that player is running a mission. Editorializing about the players mental disposition aside, thanks for your answer. So here we have it. A mission runner: 1. Risks his ship to PvE rats during missions. 2. Engages in PvP when using the market to convert his loot/salvage into ISK, not just against non-mission runners, but against other mission runners as well since missions are an unrestricted isk/material resource to every single player in the game. 3. Engages in market PvP, again, not just against non-mission runners, when he manufactures items with the resources and attempts to sell them. 4. Risks his loot/salvage being stolen, while he is actually engaged in a mission. 5. Risks actually being killed by another player, (otherwise known as PVP) while engaged in a mission. According to you, all these things reflect the current state of the game. Is that correct? Nope, this is your finished straw man. This argument fails to adhere to any of the realities of the game, and is in fact far from the real truth. However, since all these points are technical truths, they hold up as a straw man argument. Well done, it only took you 10 posts to work it together. Now, go kill yourself (in game) as you are so completely obvious that I had you figured from your first post. If all the points are "technical truths" and I draw no conclusion from them, where exactly is the strawman? Do you know what a strawman argument is?
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:37:00 - [222] Edited by: Ki An on 03/09/2008 14:43:45 Originally by: Karii Ildarian If all the points are "technical truths" and I draw no conclusion from them, where exactly is the strawman? Do you know what a strawman argument is? Yes, I know what a straw man is. Your argument is a straw man. That you haven't typed any conclusions yet doesn't mean you haven't already drawn them. They are in between the lines of your post, as evidenced by the way you have written it. I'm not one of the noobs you guys train in blob warfare and war avoidance exploits. You are completely transparent in your arguing, and you have nothing to gain from it. Your posts are all stupid. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Rufus MacMaranth Gallente Shadow Front Tread Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:39:00 - [223] Originally by: Ki An Why is it so hard for people like you to understand that Eve is a game with full PvP? There's no "pvp-areas" or 'battlegrounds'. There is one universe and PvP can happen everywhere. Everything anyone does affects everyone else. That's why it's so important NOT to have a PvP-free zone. Why is it so hard for people like you to understand that hi-sec is defined as a policed area and therefore there should be consequences for suicide attacks. Being able to take out an 800mil ISK ship in high sec which cannot defend itself and cannot be set up to defend itself and takes a significant time to get into warp for no risk (which was the epre-patch mechanic) was also unbalanced. Personally I wanted to see one of two things - either make it harder to suicide high sec transports/freighter in high sec, which is what has been done, or remove insurance payouts for those suiciding, which has not. Either would have worked for me. EVE is supposed to be a harsh world for all players, including the suiciders, pirates, et al. In which case high sec should be harsh and unforgiving for them. The problem, as always, was that an easy cash loophole was spotted and exploited. It was always going to be closed, and I really fail to see what you are whining about, unless you are just as dumb as you claim everyone else is. And just for clarity I have never been suicided .... I typically don't fly afk unless empty and buzz around in inties or transports. I tend to leave my freighter at home as flying it is such a pita. Cheers, Ruf.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:40:00 - [224] Originally by: Malin0 Edited by: Malin0 on 03/09/2008 14:12:09 "Your position is that it is not possible, in general, to kill a player, while that player is running a mission?" Anyone who's had this done to them either in a mission or mining in high sec must be wondering at you Kai An. And if you don't know how it's done I'm certainly not going to tell you (and no it dosn't involve suicide ganking). Mal Is this way of ganking mission runners completely negated if the mission runner simply does nothing at all? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:41:00 - [225] Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth Originally by: Ki An Why is it so hard for people like you to understand that Eve is a game with full PvP? There's no "pvp-areas" or 'battlegrounds'. There is one universe and PvP can happen everywhere. Everything anyone does affects everyone else. That's why it's so important NOT to have a PvP-free zone. Why is it so hard for people like you to understand that hi-sec is defined as a policed area and therefore there should be consequences for suicide attacks. Being able to take out an 800mil ISK ship in high sec which cannot defend itself and cannot be set up to defend itself and takes a significant time to get into warp for no risk (which was the epre-patch mechanic) was also unbalanced. Personally I wanted to see one of two things - either make it harder to suicide high sec transports/freighter in high sec, which is what has been done, or remove insurance payouts for those suiciding, which has not. Either would have worked for me. EVE is supposed to be a harsh world for all players, including the suiciders, pirates, et al. In which case high sec should be harsh and unforgiving for them. The problem, as always, was that an easy cash loophole was spotted and exploited. It was always going to be closed, and I really fail to see what you are whining about, unless you are just as dumb as you claim everyone else is. And just for clarity I have never been suicided .... I typically don't fly afk unless empty and buzz around in inties or transports. I tend to leave my freighter at home as flying it is such a pita. Cheers, Ruf. You will have both changes soon. Insurance nerf is coming. Eve is supposed to be cold and harsh, but apparently only for pirates and people living in other places than high sec. High sec is now virtually completely safe. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:44:00 - [226] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Karii Ildarian If all the points are "technical truths" and I draw no conclusion from them, where exactly is the strawman? Do you know what a strawman argument is? Yes, I know what a straw man is. Your argument is a straw man. That you haven't typed any conclusions yet doesn't mean you have already drawn them. They are in between the lines of your post, as evidenced by the way you have written it. Hmmm. I simply asked you a number of questions which serve to define what a mission runner actually is. You answered them. You draw your own conclusions. Do you think that the description, provided by the listed points, is insufficient? What, objectively, would you add?
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:46:00 - [227] Originally by: Karii Ildarian Hmmm. I simply asked you a number of questions which serve to define what a mission runner actually is. You answered them. You draw your own conclusions. Do you think that the description, provided by the listed points, is insufficient? What, objectively, would you add? No, as I stated from the beginning, you asked a bunch of leading questions in order to get me to answer them the way you wanted me to. You where then going to use my answers in your straw man argument. The way you continuously failed to include the important parts of my replies very much proved this. Enough is enough, Karii. You're a stupid person. You make stupid posts. Stop making stupid posts. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:52:00 - [228] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Karii Ildarian Hmmm. I simply asked you a number of questions which serve to define what a mission runner actually is. You answered them. You draw your own conclusions. Do you think that the description, provided by the listed points, is insufficient? What, objectively, would you add? No, as I stated from the beginning, you asked a bunch of leading questions in order to get me to answer them the way you wanted me to. You where then going to use my answers in your straw man argument. The way you continuously failed to include the important parts of my replies very much proved this. Enough is enough, Karii. You're a stupid person. You make stupid posts. Stop making stupid posts. Leading questions? Which, pray tell? Are you sure that you might not have simply overlooked a few things during your tantrum?
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 14:55:00 - [229] Originally by: Karii Ildarian Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Karii Ildarian Hmmm. I simply asked you a number of questions which serve to define what a mission runner actually is. You answered them. You draw your own conclusions. Do you think that the description, provided by the listed points, is insufficient? What, objectively, would you add? No, as I stated from the beginning, you asked a bunch of leading questions in order to get me to answer them the way you wanted me to. You where then going to use my answers in your straw man argument. The way you continuously failed to include the important parts of my replies very much proved this. Enough is enough, Karii. You're a stupid person. You make stupid posts. Stop making stupid posts. Leading questions? Which, pray tell? Are you sure that you might not have simply overlooked a few things during your tantrum? All of your questions where leading. All of my replies where cherry picked by you. Stop with the sillyness now, Karii. You're busted. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Call'Da Poleece	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:00:00 - [230] Originally by: Ki An All of your questions where leading. All of my replies where cherry picked by you. Stop with the sillyness now, Karii. You're busted. pot, let me introduce you to kettle

Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:01:00 - [231] Originally by: Call'Da Poleece Originally by: Ki An All of your questions where leading. All of my replies where cherry picked by you. Stop with the sillyness now, Karii. You're busted. pot, let me introduce you to kettle Which of my questions where leading, alt? Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:03:00 - [232] Originally by: Ki An You will have both changes soon. Insurance nerf is coming. Eve is supposed to be cold and harsh, but apparently only for pirates and people living in other places than high sec. High sec is now virtually completely safe. Well, the box did say piracy was supposed to be either really hard, or hardest career path, right? I can't recall exactly...way too long ago... Either way, this nerf won't stop people from ganking in high sec if the payout is good enough. It will, however, likely stop folks from ganking in high sec simply 'for the lulz' or whatever.
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:04:00 - [233] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Ki An You will have both changes soon. Insurance nerf is coming. Eve is supposed to be cold and harsh, but apparently only for pirates and people living in other places than high sec. High sec is now virtually completely safe. Well, the box did say piracy was supposed to be either really hard, or hardest career path, right? I can't recall exactly...way too long ago... Either way, this nerf won't stop people from ganking in high sec if the payout is good enough. It will, however, likely stop folks from ganking in high sec simply 'for the lulz' or whatever. As I always say when this argument is brought up: Run the math for a freighter gank. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:04:00 - [234] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Karii Ildarian Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Karii Ildarian Hmmm. I simply asked you a number of questions which serve to define what a mission runner actually is. You answered them. You draw your own conclusions. Do you think that the description, provided by the listed points, is insufficient? What, objectively, would you add? No, as I stated from the beginning, you asked a bunch of leading questions in order to get me to answer them the way you wanted me to. You where then going to use my answers in your straw man argument. The way you continuously failed to include the important parts of my replies very much proved this. Enough is enough, Karii. You're a stupid person. You make stupid posts. Stop making stupid posts. Leading questions? Which, pray tell? Are you sure that you might not have simply overlooked a few things during your tantrum? All of your questions where leading. All of my replies where cherry picked by you. Stop with the sillyness now, Karii. You're busted. ? Maybe I just helped to show you that the "firm" ground upon which you thought you were standing may be, in reality, quicksand.
Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:06:00 - [235] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Ki An You will have both changes soon. Insurance nerf is coming. Eve is supposed to be cold and harsh, but apparently only for pirates and people living in other places than high sec. High sec is now virtually completely safe. Well, the box did say piracy was supposed to be either really hard, or hardest career path, right? I can't recall exactly...way too long ago... Either way, this nerf won't stop people from ganking in high sec if the payout is good enough. It will, however, likely stop folks from ganking in high sec simply 'for the lulz' or whatever. As I always say when this argument is brought up: Run the math for a freighter gank. How about a shuttle with a T2 BPO? How does that math look?
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:07:00 - [236] Originally by: Ki An As I always say when this argument is brought up: Run the math for a freighter gank. And then run the math on how many pilots haul rediculously valuable things in rediculously fragile ships. I've not tested the new toughness of CONCORD, but I'm happy to concede freighter ganks in highsec may now actually be impossible. But I still maintain highsec ganking, in general, will remain extraordinarily profitable for those who do it right.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:11:00 - [237] Originally by: Karii Ildarian How about a shuttle with a T2 BPO? How does that math look? QFT! Or how about an afk pod with a 10 billion isk bounty that might come past on autopilot!!!!!! IM HEADING OUT TO SIT ON A GATE RIGHT NOW!!!!!! ... ... ... ... ... dies of old age SKUNK
Karii Ildarian Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:13:00 - [238] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Karii Ildarian How about a shuttle with a T2 BPO? How does that math look? QFT! Or how about an afk pod with a 10 billion isk bounty that might come past on autopilot!!!!!! IM HEADING OUT TO SIT ON A GATE RIGHT NOW!!!!!! ... ... ... ... ... dies of old age SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:14:00 - [239] THE MATHS: Assuming no insurance payout for concorded ships (future patch confirmed by ccp). It took around 15 torp ravens to pop a freighter in a 0.5 (obelisk highest hit points, slave set, in gang, 5% hull mod, assuming 3 volleys of torps get off). That most pilots wernt flying around in slave sets was offset by the fact that not all ravens managed to get off a third volley. Lag, slow warp ins, slow pilots etc offset this. Now concord have been buffed so your looking at (depending on the sec status of the system) anywhere between 25 and 45 torp ravens. (working on the principle you are gogin to get max 2 and possibly only 1 volley off) So the cost (at 120million per raven (t2 bcus, arbelest sieges, t1 midslots) leaves costs for ganking a freighter at somewhere between 3 - 5 billion isk. Ok, now from experience, you are looking at perhaps 35% of the loot surviving. So to cover the costs, a hit would have to be carrying maybe 13 billion isk of cargo. Thats to break even Trust me - its incredibly rare to see that amount of isk in a freighter. From experience you would be scanning for... maybe 30 hours to see one. Rather then risk hauling that much, most pilots with a brain would purchase a 2nd or 3rd freighter pilot (you can get in a freighter very quickly) and AFK three accounts on autopilot. So thats 25+ guys hanging around for 30 hours. A good 750 man hours. To break even. Small corps dont have a chance to organise that amount of people, and risk that amount of isk. So CCPs mythical "logistic terrorism" belongs (like more and more of this game) simply to the big alliances. SKUNK
Ki An Gallente The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2008.09.03 15:17:00 - [240] Originally by: Garreck And then run the math on how many pilots haul rediculously valuable things in rediculously fragile ships. Why should I run it for them? Such pilots already have a 100% safe method of transporting their goods. If they chose not to, why should they be hard to gank? Originally by: Garreck I've not tested the new toughness of CONCORD, but I'm happy to concede freighter ganks in highsec may now actually be impossible. Good to see you have come to your senses. Is that a good or a bad thing, would you say? Originally by: Garreck But I still maintain highsec ganking, in general, will remain extraordinarily profitable for those who do it right. As long as people keep putting billions in their cargo holds, yes, it will. However, the suicide ganking that was actually needed (pimped out NPC corp mission runners, NPC corp freighter pilots, macro miners in hulks) have been effectively nerfed to oblivion. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.