Originally by: Snow Banshee

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Actually none of the feared changes will be deplyed, so things are good as they are (imho).

Blaster DPS is good, the problem is tracking , but until come feared "web + scrable + mass" change they are ballanced so no changes are needed.

The fact that those changes will not come live during the next patch it means that CCP are aware of the problem.

P.S) IMHO if blasters ( but also autocannons ) will be screwed by incoming changes mean that those need to be rebalanced, not that ships need to change their rule.

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Originally by: fuxinos

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caldari:
+ missiles hit pretty good
+ some jamm ships
+ nice range

- bad ship bonis
- bad slot layout
- obvious pg/cpu issues
- missiles need sig radius (required to hit targets for full damage)
- very cap intense tank
- no possibility for sensorbooster/cap injector/mwd without weeken the tank
- no tackle
- missiles hit bad on fast moving ships/sometimes cant even keep up
- missiles have realy weak base damage
- low dps on every ship exept raven
- worst base cap
- missiles need time to travel
- worst hacs of all
- worst cruisers exept blackbird
- not able to solo pvp
- bad ehp
- shield tank

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Can you substantiate that the mass/scram/web nerf is not at all going to happen please? They pulled them off Sisi for EA1.1 testing, but they're putting it back as quickly as possible. CCP Lingorm said yesterday that they're still planning on the exact same nerf path that they've announced.

-Liang

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: fuxinos

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caldari:
+ missiles hit pretty good
+ some jamm ships
+ nice range

- bad ship bonis
- bad slot layout
- obvious pg/cpu issues
- missiles need sig radius (required to hit targets for full damage)
- very cap intense tank
- no possibility for sensorbooster/cap injector/mwd without weeken the tank
- no tackle
- missiles hit bad on fast moving ships/sometimes cant even keep up
- missiles have realy weak base damage
- low dps on every ship exept raven
- worst base cap
- missiles need time to travel
- worst hacs of all
- worst cruisers exept blackbird
- not able to solo pvp
- bad ehp
- shield tank

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You've loaded so much bullshit into your post that it's almost impossible to respond to. Suffice it to say that you really couldn't be more wrong about Caldari and Gallente.

-Liang

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Originally by: Wil Smithx

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Originally by: Omarvelous

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Does your raven have a MWD?

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Yes

Originally by: Omarvelous

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If so - there is NO way you can fire 900 DPS AND have 2 heavy neuts.

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Fitting modsà

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Originally by: Wil Smithx

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We (my alliance) tend to use bubbles and most hacs fit points anyways.

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Originally by: fuxinos

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Edited by: fuxinos on 02/09/2008 18:13:51

Originally by: Liang Nuren

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Originally by: fuxinos

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caldari:
+ missiles hit pretty good
+ some jamm ships
+ nice range

- bad ship bonis
- bad slot layout
- obvious pg/cpu issues
- missiles need sig radius (required to hit targets for full damage)
- very cap intense tank
- no possibility for sensorbooster/cap injector/mwd without weeken the tank
- no tackle
- missiles hit bad on fast moving ships/sometimes cant even keep up
- missiles have realy weak base damage
- low dps on every ship exept raven
- worst base cap
- missiles need time to travel
- worst hacs of all
- worst cruisers exept blackbird
- not able to solo pvp
- bad ehp
- shield tank

---

You've loaded so much bullshit into your post that it's almost impossible to respond to. Suffice it to say that you really couldn't be more wrong about Caldari and Gallente.

-Liang

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back up the bullshit u just gave us

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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That is a JoJo, a forum troll used by Amarr whiners.

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Originally by: fuxinos

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back up the bullshit u just gave us

caldari:
+ missiles hit pretty good
+ some jamm ships
+ nice range

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Quote:

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- bad ship bonis

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Quote:

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- bad slot layout

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Quote:

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- obvious pg/cpu issues

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Quote:

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- missiles need sig radius (required to hit targets for full damage)

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Quote:

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- very cap intense tank

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Quote:

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- no possibility for sensorbooster/cap injector/mwd without weeken the tank

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Quote:

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- no tackle

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Quote:

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- missiles hit bad on fast moving ships/sometimes cant even keep up

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Quote:

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- missiles have realy weak base damage

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Quote:

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- low dps on every ship exept raven

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Quote:

---

- worst base cap

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Quote:

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- missiles need time to travel

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Quote:

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- worst hacs of all

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Quote:

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- worst cruisers exept blackbird

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Quote:

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- not able to solo pvp

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Quote:

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- bad ehp

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Quote:

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- shield tank

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Originally by: fuxinos

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exaggerated post adding flame fodder against caldari pilots....

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Originally by: fuxinos

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gallente:
+ more ehp then any caldari ship

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Quote:

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+ noobi slotlayout compared to caldari/amarr

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Quote:

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+ open slots for tackle

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Quote:

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+ open slots for mwd, sensorbooster, cap injector

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Quote:

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+ always big dronebays/dronebandwith

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Quote:

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+ no fitting issues ( pg/cpu )

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Quote:

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+ nearly jamm resistend because of their drohnes

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Quote:

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+ more slots for tank then caldari ships

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Quote:

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+ possibility for neuts/nos, because much pg/cpu

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Quote:

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+ more base cap then all caldari ships

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Quote:

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+ nice bonis on every ship

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Quote:

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+ armor tanking (less cap intensive)

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Quote:

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+ able to solo pvp

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Quote:

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- tracking (blaster)

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Quote:

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- low range (blaster)

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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rebuttal

-Liang

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Originally by: Omarvelous

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FFS - stop giving away state secrets. I'd like for everyone to assume Caldari suck at pvp and tackling. I like getting fights/kills in my Moa because its 'terrible'.

People are already starting to wise up to the HAM/gank Drake.

ShhhhhhhhhhH!

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Originally by: Omarvelous

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If so - there is NO way you can fire 900 DPS AND have 2 heavy neuts.

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Fitting modsà

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So, 900 dps + MWD + 2 neuts. I'm assuming you're using ancilary current routers for the grid. If so - thats very expensive AND detrimental to your tank (none if any extender rigs).

I'd rather have the tank in extender rigs and just fly about with 1 heavy neut. I've also seen Ravens with a mix of cruise and torps to maintain a point, tank, and fire 2 heavy neuts.

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Originally by: Gypsio III

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Originally by: Omarvelous

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If so - there is NO way you can fire 900 DPS AND have 2 heavy neuts.

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Fitting modsà

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So, 900 dps + MWD + 2 neuts. I'm assuming you're using ancilary current routers for the grid. If so - thats very expensive AND detrimental to your tank (none if any extender rigs).

I'd rather have the tank in extender rigs and just fly about with 1 heavy neut. I've also seen Ravens with a mix of cruise and torps to maintain a point, tank, and fire 2 heavy neuts.

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6x Siege II, 2 HU neuts
MWD, 2x LSE II, 2x Inv II, Faint disruptor or PWNAGE
IFFA suitcase, 2x RCU II, 2x BCS II
3x extender rigs
5x hammerhead IIs

Fits nicely. 1002 DPS with CN torps.

I don't think it's a great fit - one heavy neut and a large remote rep sounds better, or by downgrading the utility mods you can fit in a third BCS and a lowslot ECCM thingie. But it does fit, and doesn't need any silly ACRs.

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Originally by: fuxinos

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i lol hard at you liang, i dont want to see your crappy fittings :S

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Quote:

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filled up by anc routers and reactor controls? i dont like that.

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Quote:

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i fly my raven on testserver quite a lot and i can use all t2 on it.

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Quote:

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i know quite well what this ship is capable of and a buffer tank on raven + web + scrambler make u lose any bs battle for sure (maybe not against noobs) ;)

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Quote:

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and try to tell me, why do ppl consider caldari ships as easy kill? :D
there gotta be a nice reason for that.

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Quote:

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anyway, i told u to back up what u said, not to say i agree/i disagree. try again and proof me wrong.

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Quote:

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and plz, dont try to hang out the cool guy again, ur not cool ;)

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Originally by: fuxinos

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and try to tell me, why do ppl consider caldari ships as easy kill? :D
there gotta be a nice reason for that.

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Originally by: Omarvelous

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P.S. Glad to see you mentioned the large shield transporter - one small step for RR shield gangs

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Originally by: Kera T'Ress

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Edited by: Kera T''Ress on 02/09/2008 20:18:09
One thing I'd need to re-run the figures on basically underlines the fact that large blasters (not small or med - those seem generally ok) need some consideration. Comparing an Armageddon to a Megathron (plated 'gank' setups) will end up with...

Geddon DPS < Mega DPS (by appx 10%)
Geddon Range > Mega Range (by appx 12%)

All the while with marginal differences in EHP (Geddon has an estimated 10% advantage).

The problem here is that the Mega, and blasters by description are supposed to be OMGWTFBBQ-OwMyFace! weapons, and that the risk or getting in as close as they do to be able to bring their damage to bear should be offset by the level of damage done. It's looking as if in the case of large blasters that the damage advantage isn't maybe quite enough to justify the up close and personal aspect of blaster combat. I'm not talking a massive boost here, just a few more %.

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Originally by: Bayushi Brozo

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Wow, i love trolls...

First off, Wil it is very comical to me that you start a thread asking for a buff to gallente BS's citing examples of how much better caldari ships are, and yet in a different thread on the same day, you post that pvp caldari ships suck.

Both thoughts are incorrect. The problem with eve is that each races ships are designed to do different things, and thus are better in certain situations than others. The issue arises when someone like yourself wants to be able to perform every aspect of the game in one ship, or one race's ships.

I am a Caldari pilot because i like their ships the most. I would kill for the dps buffs other races get to their weapons on their ships. I would kill for the drone capability on my ships equal to gallente. But the point is, Caldari ships aren't built that way, their strength is in range.

Now, in the instances that I get to determine where the start fights, there are ways for me to take advantage of my range bonuses on my ships. Yet, if i get jumped on, those range bonuses mean absolutely nothing. For the mega, the damage bonuses are incredibly powerful, assuming you are at the correct range (same as before, just a different range), and you have to fit and focus your ship to be able to get into that range.

It's a two sided coin, if one person needs to be close up, and the other far away, the game comes down to tactically achieving your "optimal" range, while keeping the other person out of his. If the dev team is going to allow gallente bs's to have effectivly the same range as caldari, then next, the caldari are going to need a damage buff to balance next to the gallente's, which leads us down a road to the point where every race has the same ships, just different skins.

In simpler terms, quit whining about how your ship can't do everything, and learn to focus on what your ship is good at, and figure out ways to capitalize on those advantages.

On a different note, yes mim BS' need a boost, been playing for 2 years, and never seen one actually flying around.

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Originally by: Bayushi Brozo

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Wow, i love trolls...

First off, Wil it is very comical to me that you start a thread asking for a buff to gallente BS's citing examples of how much better caldari ships are, and yet in a different thread on the same day, you post that pvp caldari ships suck.

Both thoughts are incorrect. The problem with eve is that each races ships are designed to do different things, and thus are better in certain situations than others. The issue arises when someone like yourself wants to be able to perform every aspect of the game in one ship, or one race's ships.

I am a Caldari pilot because i like their ships the most. I would kill for the dps buffs other races get to their weapons on their ships. I would kill for the drone capability on my ships equal to gallente. But the point is, Caldari ships aren't built that way, their strength is in range.

Now, in the instances that I get to determine where the start fights, there are ways for me to take advantage of my range bonuses on my ships. Yet, if i get jumped on, those range bonuses mean absolutely nothing. For the mega, the damage bonuses are incredibly powerful, assuming you are at the correct range (same as before, just a different range), and you have to fit and focus your ship to be able to get into that range.

It's a two sided coin, if one person needs to be close up, and the other far away, the game comes down to tactically achieving your "optimal" range, while keeping the other person out of his. If the dev team is going to allow gallente bs's to have effectivly the same range as caldari, then next, the caldari are going to need a damage buff to balance next to the gallente's, which leads us down a road to the point where every race has the same ships, just different skins.

In simpler terms, quit whining about how your ship can't do everything, and learn to focus on what your ship is good at, and figure out ways to capitalize on those advantages.

On a different note, yes mim BS' need a boost, been playing for 2 years, and never seen one actually flying around.

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Originally by: Liang Nuren

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-Liang

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Originally by: Bayushi Brozo

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Wow, i love trolls...

First off, Wil it is very comical to me that you start a thread asking for a buff to gallente BS's citing examples of how much better caldari ships are, and yet in a different thread on the same day, you post that pvp caldari ships suck.

Both thoughts are incorrect. The problem with eve is that each races ships are designed to do different things, and thus are better in certain situations than others. The issue arises when someone like yourself wants to be able to perform every aspect of the game in one ship, or one race's ships.

I am a Caldari pilot because i like their ships the most. I would kill for the dps buffs other races get to their weapons on their ships. I would kill for the drone capability on my ships equal to gallente. But the point is, Caldari ships aren't built that way, their strength is in range.

Now, in the instances that I get to determine where the start fights, there are ways for me to take advantage of my range bonuses on my ships. Yet, if i get jumped on, those range bonuses mean absolutely nothing. For the mega, the damage bonuses are incredibly powerful, assuming you are at the correct range (same as before, just a different range), and you have to fit and focus your ship to be able to get into that range.

It's a two sided coin, if one person needs to be close up, and the other far away, the game comes down to tactically achieving your "optimal" range, while keeping the other person out of his. If the dev team is going to allow gallente bs's to have effectivly the same range as caldari, then next, the caldari are going to need a damage buff to balance next to the gallente's, which leads us down a road to the point where every race has the same ships, just different skins.

In simpler terms, quit whining about how your ship can't do everything, and learn to focus on what your ship is good at, and figure out ways to capitalize on those advantages.

On a different note, yes mim BS' need a boost, been playing for 2 years, and never seen one actually flying around.

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Originally by: Noelle Fay

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Would you bear my children?


You should be part of the CCP team concerning rebalancing ships and stuff... seen a gazillion posts of you.
I'm not much of a brown-noser, but still.

BTW, I thought you wanted to quit at one point

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Originally by: fuxinos

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and try to tell me, why do ppl consider caldari ships as easy kill? :D
there gotta be a nice reason for that.

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