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Meichi Li Zharr Naggrund	Posted - 2008.09.03 17:49:00 - [91] Edited by: Meichi Li on 03/09/2008 17:49:54 Originally by: Wil Smithx All we want is for it to have a decent number of drones 75 bandwidth is the shittest amount of bandwidth going, you can't really field heavies and its a 33% loss to drop to meds, you can always mix drone classes but that generally fails epicly due to shit drone ai's and light drones. I would like to see a myrm with 100 bandwidth and 4/5 turrets. I don't want turrets, I want warfare links! and the gallente don't have a ship that can use them effectivly. To the Eos, the Eos is just a total failure... It tanks less than the damnation and doesn't have resists nearly as good (for remote rep). It has a gang bonus to all races but gallente! Its guns outdamage the vulture but at none of the range so its useless in a fleet with rails. Also it cant use sentry drones in a fleet because they have a 60km range (100km if you don't want warfare links [if so your a fool]). As a close range damage dealer its no better than any of the other races but the vulture and it has no range so none of its marginly higher dps get applied anyway. Its a drone ship with 75m3 bandwidth and no drone bonus?!. So its drones deal no damage anyway... Just pick some reasons... It is such a shit ship now, its only use is running 7 warfare links which all the other fleet commands can do exactly the same! (and with agruably more useful bonuses) I can understand wanting to have more than 75 MB of bandwidth. I really can. The ol' 2x Heavy 2x Medium 1x Light for max EFT DPS doesn't work out all that well in practice, and it's not as though the 6x autocannons that are normally fit kick out a ton of damage. And I can understand your complaints about the Eos, though I don't really get why you're complaining about DPS on a Fleet Command. The Eos is not a close range damage dealer. The Astarte is. That said, Information Warfare Links truly are terrible. They need a complete rework. The only thing that they seem good for is boosting Falcon squads. The Eos having no bonuses for Gallente ships is a red herring. Who the hell flies Gallente only gangs? As I said before, I am very much in favor of Gallente battleships getting a general buff, and a rework of blaster mechanics so that Gallente can use their racial weapons again. Something on the order of a 25% reduction to cap usage on Blasters and a tracking increase, plus replacing the MWD cap amount bonus on the Thorax/Deimos with a +10% armor per level would be a good start. The Brutix can have its +7.5% armor repper bonus replaced with +10% armor too. I don't know the answer for the Mega or Hype. Gallente recons also need a rework, as does the Eris. But the Myrmidon and Eos are largely fine. Even though they're both not ideal ships for their role, getting sidetracked away from overall Gallente problems in order to deal with perceived problems for just two ships that that aren't 100% pure awesome right now is not such a hot idea.
Dzajic Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.09.03 18:28:00 - [92] I'm sorry. Could you please clarify? Would you like that to be 10% armor rep amount bonus, or 10% armor amount bonus? Trying to active armor tank Thorax or Deimos... isnt the best option.
Meichi Li Zharr Naggrund	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:13:00 - [93] Edited by: Meichi Li on 03/09/2008 19:14:11 +10% armor amount bonus. Lord knows that there wouldn't be much point to a 2.5% boost for the Brutix or a bonus for nonexistent reppers on the Thorax/Deimos.
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:57:00 - [94] Originally by: Meichi Li And I can understand your complaints about the Eos, though I don't really get why you're complaining about DPS on a Fleet Command. The Eos is not a close range damage dealer. The Astarte is. Then what is the role of the eos? To gve gang bonuses and die?! It can't tank as well as the damnation It can't snipe like the vulture It can't speed/shield tank like the claymore It used to be able to deal damage, which made it more the gang command but that was unballanced so now it does nothing... Originally by: Meichi Li That said, Information Warfare Links truly are terrible. They need a complete rework. The only thing that they seem good for is boosting Falcon squads. Yup... Originally by: Meichi Li The Eos having no bonuses for Gallente ships is a red herring. Who the hell flies Gallente only gangs? Dreams of eos arazu combos again... Originally by: Meichi Li As I said before, I am very much in favor of Gallente battleships getting a general buff, and a rework of blaster mechanics so that Gallente can use their racial weapons again. Something on the order of a 25% reduction to cap usage on Blasters and a tracking increase, plus replacing the MWD cap amount bonus on the Thorax/Deimos with a +10% armor per level would be a good start. The Brutix can have its +7.5% armor repper bonus replaced with +10% armor too. I don't know the answer for the Mega or Hype. I think either tracking or range needs to increase a lot... My main issue with tanking is that gallente are basicly an enfrced active tank or forget your bonus and yet they active and plate tank worse than amarr ships, which have no such restriction. Originally by: Meichi Li Gallente recons also need a rework, as does the Eris. But the Myrmidon and Eos are largely fine. Even though they're both not ideal ships for their role, getting sidetracked away from overall Gallente problems in order to deal with perceived problems for just two ships that that aren't 100% pure awesome right now is not such a hot idea. Well as stated earlier the Eos is not fine and while the myrm isn't bad it just feels wrong as a ship. And I'm not getting side-tracked. I think there are issues with: Hyperion Megathron Eos Arazu Lachesis Myrmidon Deimos Helios Kronos Eris Keres And I hear a lot of people complain about the Astarte and Brutix. I imagine this thread will be very long before we see it end. So I'm happy to look through gallente ship by ship. Originally by: Dzajic I'm sorry. Could you please clarify? Would you like that to be 10% armor rep amount bonus, or 10% armor amount bonus? Trying to active armor tank Thorax or Deimos... isnt the best option. 10% repair amount per level and while active tanking those ships is bad your a fool if you don't think getting your hp buffed while you're taking damage is a good thing.
Nerfmycap	Posted - 2008.09.03 19:59:00 - [95] Originally by: Boz Well Fit your cerb with AML's and watch it hit for more than .1 damage. It's no big surprise that you won't hit for jack with HML's, because heavy precisions suck. Light precisions, on the other hand, are quite nice. Which would mean that it's DPS is not in line with other ships, and that it won't kill a nanoship even nearly. ****all dps
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:05:00 - [96] Edited by: Wil Smithx on 03/09/2008 20:14:27 Originally by: Nerfmycap Originally by: Boz Well Fit your cerb with AML's and watch it hit for more than .1 damage. It's no big surprise that you won't hit for jack with HML's, because heavy precisions suck. Light precisions, on the other hand, are quite nice. Which would mean that it's DPS is not in line with other ships, and that it won't kill a nanoship even nearly. **all dps Christ you're thick... You fit it with AMLs so you can ** interceptors. This is the primary role of the cerb, no other HAC (except maybe the vaga) can destroy frigates and interceptors as effectivly as the cerb while maintaining a heavy tank. You can't kill nano ships because they are broken, thus they are being nerfed. But you can damage them and force them to retreat, which is more than most stuff in eve! You can fit HMLs and you will deal meh dps at a stupid range (I swear long range missils are only useful in pve), or you can fit HAMs and deal good dps with rage missiles.
royal killer Amarr The Funkalistic	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:53:00 - [97] Originally by: Wil Smithx Originally by: FlameGlow Meh, galls just whine cause they are used to being ovepowered, just look at nerf history. You mean the steady flow of nerfs since 2005? Originally by: royal killer Yes, boost gallente more and nerf minmatar more!!! Minmatar need boosting but I believe minmatar have their own 20+ page thread, so why don't you post there? Sarcasm, meet Wil Smithx, Wil Smithx, this is Sarcasm. -------------------- ding ding! Wrangler: Hello and w ding ding! Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners.
Syringe Morphine Inc	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:55:00 - [98] I don't know if gallente need to be boosted, but cripes! Stop nerfing us =P Every time I'm like "Hey, this'll work" CCP is like "Hehehe...NERFBAT" (didn't read thread) --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.09.03 20:59:00 - [99] Originally by: Wil Smithx If you think torps on a raven or blasters on a rokh aren't much better you're doing a lot wrong. Raven: + No cap usage + 30km range with normal ammo (lets face it, its gonna be a raven) + 900+ (from just torps) DPS while running 2 heavy neuts... + More EHP that recharges passivly (assuming no slaves) - No tackle equipment Rokh: + 30km Blaster range + More EHP that recharges passivly (assuming no slaves) - No tackle equipment TBH Caldari ships got it pretty sweet as long as they have a tackler as well as their BS. Trouble is imo blasters don't do enough extra damage to make them viable over other close range weapons. Also drone ai still suck ass! Well gallente cant have it all. Gallente has a long time been a easy to learn solo pvp race. They have great amounts of mids. You are comparing those ships to pure gang ships in gang ship setups like those ravens. Needless to say is that your comparison is total bogus. Solo: Gallente >>>>>>>>> Caldri Gang: Caldari >>>>>>>>> Gallente Maybe you lot picked the wrong race. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:04:00 - [100] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Well gallente cant have it all. Gallente has a long time been a easy to learn solo pvp race. They have great amounts of mids. You are comparing those ships to pure gang ships in gang ship setups like those ravens. Needless to say is that your comparison is total bogus. Solo: Gallente >>>>>>>>> Caldri Gang: Caldari >>>>>>>>> Gallente Maybe you lot picked the wrong race. Yeah, which would be OK if it wasn't for the fact that: Solo, a HAM Drake will kill any gallente BC Solo, a Torp Raven will kill a Megathron, in Megathron's optimal, while having actual web+point. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint

Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:07:00 - [101] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Well gallente cant have it all. Gallente has a long time been a easy to learn solo pvp race. They have great amounts of mids. You are comparing those ships to pure gang ships in gang ship setups like those ravens. Needless to say is that your comparison is total bogus. Solo: Gallente >>>>>>>>> Caldri Gang: Caldari >>>>>>>>> Gallente Maybe you lot picked the wrong race. This is not at all true in any way, shape, form, or fashion after the web/blaster nerf. A Torp Raven stomps a blaster Mega 7 ways to Sunday, even fitting tackle and propulsion. Also, I'm really curious on your take of removing elements of the game: If CCP removes an element of the game that you were good at, is that not a nerf? Is it really fair to say "You'd be good at this game [i]if CCP had encouraged a different meta game?" No, solo battleship PVP is all but dead, and blasters are really, really, really bad for anything approaching gang sizes on TQ. This isn't a function of people "training the wrong race". This is a function of CCP deliberately steering the game away from what these kinds of ships/weapons were supposedly good at. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Meichi Li Zharr Naggrund	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:07:00 - [102] Originally by: Wil Smithx Then what is the role of the eos? To gve gang bonuses and die?! The role of the Eos is to give gang bonuses and to survive. No more, no less. No one brings a Vulture to their gang because of its awesome sniping, no one brings a Claymore because the Claymore itself is speedy, and the Damnation... well, it can tank like a beast. It's true, and it might just be a little too much. Why bring an Eagle when you can bring a Zealot? Why bring a Curse when you can bring a Falcon? Just because a ship isn't best-in-class doesn't mean that it's worthless. I'll put it this way, because I've seen quite a few of your posts in Minmatar threads -- fix the modules, then fix the ships. Fix Information Warfare links to be more general purpose and... oh, I dunno, do something related to the skill Information Warfare? Increase the effect of Sensor Boosters or make Covops/Recons scan faster or something. I don't have a good idea for it right now. But clamor for the modules to be fixed, then see how the Eos looks. Wouldn't it be nice if it could use its racial bonus for something useful? Originally by: Wil Smithx I think either tracking or range needs to increase a lot... My main issue with tanking is that gallente are basicly an enfrced active tank or forget your bonus and yet they active and plate tank worse than amarr ships, which have no such restriction. I don't know that range needs to increase a lot, although tracking certainly could use a boost. The range balance between short range weapons is pretty delicate, and increasing blaster range would narrow the window for effective autocannon damage to be somewhere between 20KM and 20,001M. My honest thought on tanking would run one of two ways, and I'm pretty sure which way most people would go for. Either give most Gallente blaster ships +10% armor amount per level or (and this would be my preferred option) give blaster ships a passive bonus that increases the effectiveness of remote reppers on them. Giving players the option to use rep drones instead of ECM/damage drones or use Megathrons in pairs with each running a remote rep on the other would make them a lot more awesome. It would also give the Oneiros/Exequror a nice boost. I would have been reluctant to support this sort of paired combo six months ago, but the prevalence of pocket Falcon pilots has led me to believe that people are extremely willing to have support roles around so long as they're really useful. Originally by: Wil Smithx Well as stated earlier the Eos is not fine and while the myrm isn't bad it just feels wrong as a ship. And I'm not getting side-tracked. I think there are issues with: Hyperion Megathron Eos Arazu Oneiros Lachesis Myrmidon Deimos Helios Kronos Eris Keres And I hear a lot of people complain about the Astarte and Brutix. I imagine this thread will be very long before we see it end. So I'm happy to look through gallente ship by ship. You're probably right about this turning into a megathread, in truth. I look forward to it!
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:22:00 - [103] Originally by: Liang Nuren "No, solo battleship PVP is all but dead, and blasters are really, really, really bad for anything approaching gang sizes on TQ. This isn't a function of people "training the wrong race". This is a function of CCP deliberately steering the game away from what these kinds of ships/weapons were supposedly good at. -Liang Err, could you explain just what you think CCP is doing to deliberately steer the game away from solo PvP? Gang sizes are not something CCP has changed, it's entirely a player-based change. Solo PvP has been clearly inferior since the servers came up on day one, the only thing keeping it around has been the decisions of players to avoid the extra effort involved in forming a proper fleet.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:37:00 - [104] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/09/2008 21:39:47 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/09/2008 21:37:11 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Liang Nuren "No, solo battleship PVP is all but dead, and blasters are really, really, really bad for anything approaching gang sizes on TQ. This isn't a function of people "training the wrong race". This is a function of CCP deliberately steering the game away from what these kinds of ships/weapons were supposedly good at. -Liang Err, could you explain just what you think CCP is doing to deliberately steer the game away from solo PvP? Gang sizes are not something CCP has changed, it's entirely a player-based change. Solo PvP has been clearly inferior since the servers came up on day one, the only thing keeping it around has been the decisions of players to avoid the extra effort involved in forming a proper fleet. Not entirely correct. First off, the HP boosts / gank nerfs (and introduction of rigs which again comparatively nerfed gank) make solo PvP less viable (as you're more suspectible to bait/blob tactics), then WTZ (made getting reinforcements and/or bait/blob tactics easier). Secondly, solo PvP is not only kept around because players are lazy to form a proper fleet (lol). Aside from a part of the playerbase enjoying solo combat, there's the issue of piracy. Pirating in a 20-man gang is a exercise in futility. Kill 10 BS, lose one? Congratulations, you've just made 1 Mil ISK each. Kill a 2 billion freighter which drops a billion worth of loot (fricking rare), you've just made 50 mil ISK. Lose a BS killing nobody (ran into a better gang)? Congratulations, you've lost about 70M for a rigged BS. Pirating existing as a profession is totally impossible in large gangs. The most profit you can make is solo or with a small number of people (but just enough to kill without losses). Rewards heavily favour the solo or the small gang (5 people or less). Bigger gangs are good for risk mitigation or when profits are not the issue, but little else. And for a entirely subjective reason, solo PvP is fun. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.03 21:43:00 - [105] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Err, could you explain just what you think CCP is doing to deliberately steer the game away from solo PvP? Gang sizes are not something CCP has changed, it's entirely a player-based change. Solo PvP has been clearly inferior since the servers came up on day one, the only thing keeping it around has been the decisions of players to avoid the extra effort involved in forming a proper fleet. Sure. :) - Maintaining Caldari as THE PVE race for years on end. Most players start and play Caldari, so the natural gateway into PVP for the overwhelming majority of players involves ships that operate best in gangs. - Repeatedly nerfing any ship/tactic that is accused of being able to solo PVP. Consider the Nos Domi/Phoon, Nano ships, Dictors, Arazus, and now Blasters. Each one is successively less worthy of a direct nerf. - The successive nano nerfs. No amount of ISK should buy you 100% invulnerability, but effective solo play doesn't just mean that you pop a ship before you die - it's that you pop a ship and get away. - Shifting effective damage dealing roles away from close range combat (30km torps and 80km pulse lasers are just not short range). - Heavy recruitment into Eve without increasing available space Seriously, the general trend at CCP is currently to boost all things gang related, and nerf all things not. While this isn't necessarily a bad thing for an MMO, it does invalidate claims of "You're fine, afterall, if the metagame were different, you'd be awesome!" News flash: but the meta game isn't going to be steering more towards small gang/solo PVP anytime soon. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Car Wars Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.03 22:38:00 - [106] Edited by: Car Wars on 03/09/2008 22:39:13 yep sadly so, solo / small gang pvp is almost dead. shame as it is the only place to really use your skills, fittings and ships for what they are meant to do. But back on topic, gallente need a boost.
AstroPhobic Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.03 23:04:00 - [107] Originally by: Rawr Cristina That is Astro, the Jonny Jojo of Minmatar Is this retaliation from earlier? In all honesty though, I was serious. Ever since the death of utility mods (Nos, damps, ecm, etc), minmatar has slowly been dieing. Nano nerf was the nail in the coffin. Though your blasterboats might not be able to hit the broad side of a barn, there are still "options" for you. If it means double web and a 9km scram, so be it. At least you can still pump out 1300 DPS with a big buffer to back it. Minmatar's only option is to cram buffer, overload ACs and pray like hell.
Taak Coram	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:17:00 - [108] It's funny, when I started it was "nerf Gallente!!" and "Boost Amarr!" Funny how things change.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.04 00:26:00 - [109] Originally by: Taak Coram It's funny, when I started it was "nerf Gallente!!" and "Boost Amarr!" Funny how things change. Indeed... it's because CCP did it. -Liang -- I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent. -- Mahatma Gandhi
Mr Ignitious Gallente R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.09.04 01:24:00 - [110] When i started it was the same way. Gross how now that i finally have some skills to use those said overpowered advantages, they are long gone...

Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.09.04 05:47:00 - [111] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 04/09/2008 05:47:06 Originally by: Liang Nuren Sure. :) Too bad none of the things you have posted actually make any sense. Quote: - Maintaining Caldari as THE PVE race for years on end. Most players start and play Caldari, so the natural gateway into PVP for the overwhelming majority of players involves ships that operate best in gangs. This is effectively meaningless. While most of them start Caldari for PvE, their first trip to the forums usually reveals "Caldari suck, train Gallente for PvP", and at that early in the game, training another race's T1 frigate/cruiser is just a couple days away. In fact, this is exactly what most of them do, you see plenty of Caldari pilots flying Thoraxes/Vexors/etc. Quote: - Repeatedly nerfing any ship/tactic that is accused of being able to solo PVP. Consider the Nos Domi/Phoon, Nano ships, Dictors, Arazus, and now Blasters. Each one is successively less worthy of a direct nerf. In order: NOS: nerfed because it did too much, solo or gang or fleet, giving you tons of cap while at the same time removing your opponent's cap, while being unaffected by size differences. Nano ships: nerfed because they have been massively overpowered in solo AND gang fights. In fact, this nerf is actually a boost for Gallente, since they aren't going to always be stuck missing 99% of the time against nano-HACs orbiting outside of web range with complete invulnerability against the Gallente ship's efforts to get into range. Interdictors: nerfed pointlessly, but interdictors absolutely sucked as solo ships already, so this isn't a solo PvP nerf. Arazu: overkill nerfed, but as a side effect of the damp nerf. While the Arazu should get a boost back to something at least somewhat useful, the main target here was getting rid of damps in every random free mid slot, not solo PvP. Blasters: not nerfed, since they suck already in most situations. The "nerf" is just making this fact too obvious to deny. So these claimed "nerfs" to solo PvP actually had little, if anything, to do with solo PvP. Quote: - The successive nano nerfs. No amount of ISK should buy you 100% invulnerability, but effective solo play doesn't just mean that you pop a ship before you die - it's that you pop a ship and get away. See above about the nano nerf being a boost to Gallente. Gallente lose the nano Ishtar, and gain a game in which they might actually find targets that don't orbit at 20km completely invulnerable to all Gallente weapons. Quote: - Shifting effective damage dealing roles away from close range combat (30km torps and 80km pulse lasers are just not short range). Damage dealing has ALWAYS been away from close range combat, once you look at the real server instead of EFT. Unless long-range weapons are nerfed to uselessness they will always be superior due to lack of a requirement to waste time in a long, zero-transversal, cap draining approach to get in range of the target. Quote: - Heavy recruitment into Eve without increasing available space Just look at 0.0, empty system, empty system, empty system, empty system, OMG BLOB. There is already plenty of available space, people just don't spread out to use it. So looks like you're wrong, this isn't a choice on CCP's part, it's a trend of the players recognizing that fleets are superior to solo PvP in every way and deciding that the benefits are worth the cost in organization. The simple fact is numbers win fights, no matter what metagame you have.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.09.04 05:55:00 - [112] Originally by: Cpt Branko First off, the HP boosts / gank nerfs (and introduction of rigs which again comparatively nerfed gank) make solo PvP less viable (as you're more suspectible to bait/blob tactics) Well, this one I'll grant. I don't think the intent was removing solo PvP, but increasing tank to the point where you need multiple ships to break a decent target in time does have that effect. Quote: then WTZ (made getting reinforcements and/or bait/blob tactics easier). Maybe, but the request was for INTENTIONAL nerfs to solo PvP. WTZ was in no way a nerf to solo PvP, or to PvP of any kind, it was simply a response to a crippling server problem. Besides, the dedicated PvPers (especially the ones baiting in a specific system) already had instas set up to effectively give them WTZ, but with much more server load. Quote: Rewards heavily favour the solo or the small gang (5 people or less). Bigger gangs are good for risk mitigation or when profits are not the issue, but little else. Even a 5 man gang (which I agree is ideal for piracy) nerfs solo PvP. The only thing a solo ship can do against a proper 5 man gang is beg for a ransom. So since a 5 man gang can effectively pirate, there's no reason to ever fly solo if you can avoid it, and very little reason to fly Gallente. This has been true since the servers came up on day one, the only difference is more people starting to realize it's worth the effort to bring a proper 5 man gang.
Traderboz	Posted - 2008.09.04 06:03:00 - [113] Quote: Blasters: not nerfed, since they suck already in most situations. The "nerf" is just making this fact too obvious to deny. I don't really care enough to respond to all the points. I'm sure Liang will, and you guys can argue to your hearts content. I just found this quote kind of funny... it's not a nerf because they're already bad, even though they're worse post patch. WTF kind of misguided logic is that? Lol. Whether they're good or bad pre-patch really doesn't have anything to do with whether it's a nerf. The fact that blasterboats will be even worse post-patch makes it a nerf.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.09.04 06:14:00 - [114] Originally by: Traderboz Quote: Blasters: not nerfed, since they suck already in most situations. The "nerf" is just making this fact too obvious to deny. I don't really care enough to respond to all the points. I'm sure Liang will, and you guys can argue to your hearts content. I just found this quote kind of funny... it's not a nerf because they're already bad, even though they're worse post patch. WTF kind of misguided logic is that? Lol. Whether they're good or bad pre-patch really doesn't have anything to do with whether it's a nerf. The fact that blasterboats will be even worse post-patch makes it a nerf. The same way that it wouldn't be a nerf patch if CCP removed all slots on the Ibis. The ship is utterly worthless in PvP already, so no matter how much you nerf it, it doesn't matter. While blaster ships are currently better than Ibises, they're only better by a VERY tiny margin.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.04 06:58:00 - [115] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Rawr Cristina That is Astro, the Jonny Jojo of Minmatar Is this retaliation from earlier? hehe sorry just after seeing you vigerously defending Minmatar in seemingly every post it was only fitting. - Infectious -
Mazzy Star Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.04 07:18:00 - [116] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Traderboz Quote: Blasters: not nerfed, since they suck already in most situations. The "nerf" is just making this fact too obvious to deny. I don't really care enough to respond to all the points. I'm sure Liang will, and you guys can argue to your hearts content. I just found this quote kind of funny... it's not a nerf because they're already bad, even though they're worse post patch. WTF kind of misguided logic is that? Lol. Whether they're good or bad pre-patch really doesn't have anything to do with whether it's a nerf. The fact that blasterboats will be even worse post-patch makes it a nerf. The same way that it wouldn't be a nerf patch if CCP removed all slots on the Ibis. The ship is utterly worthless in PvP already, so no matter how much you nerf it, it doesn't matter. While blaster ships are currently better than Ibises, they're only better by a VERY tiny margin. Again, how good a ship is right now has nothing to do with whether a patch is a "nerf". Removing all slots on the Ibis WOULD be a nerf, just like this patch is a nerf to blaster boats because of the accel/web changes. It's not really an important point, just semantics, but nonetheless... it is a nerf. ________________________________________________________
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.04 07:50:00 - [117] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Too bad none of the things you have posted actually make any sense. I believe that it is in fact your posts that donÆt make any sense, you come on here blabbing about how gallente are awesome in pvp: Originally by: Merin Ryskin This is effectively meaningless. While most of them start Caldari for PvE, their first trip to the forums usually reveals "Caldari suck, train Gallente for PvP", and at that early in the game, training another race's T1 frigate/cruiser is just a couple days away. In fact, this is exactly what most of them do, you see plenty of Caldari pilots flying Thoraxes/Vexors/etc. And then say that blasters are useless: Originally by: Merin Ryskin Blasters: not nerfed, since they suck already in most situations. The "nerf" is just making this fact too obvious to deny. With obviously no idea what youÆre talking about: Originally by: Merin Ryskin See above about the nano nerf being a boost to Gallente. Gallente lose the nano Ishtar, and gain a game in which they might actually find targets that don't orbit at 20km completely invulnerable to all Gallente weapons. After patch gallente ships get kited and laughed at by close range smaller ships because their guns canÆt track them, and even if they could, all you need is a single tracking disruptor to totally negate all damage you might have taken. This turns all of our æÆ1300ÆÆ (drone) dps ships into still, drone dps ships. This thread isnÆt just about the nano changes and how crippling that will be to gallente ships as well, itÆs a thread about buffing gallente because they are massively sub par in just about every decent gang ship. Oh and lol at your epic fails and contradiction. Originally by: Merin Ryskin The same way that it wouldn't be a nerf patch if CCP removed all slots on the Ibis. The ship is utterly worthless in PvP already, so no matter how much you nerf it, it doesn't matter. While blaster ships are currently better than Ibises, they're only better by a VERY tiny margin. Goonswarm prove you wrong.
Wil Smithx Minmatar Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2008.09.04 08:04:00 - [118] Originally by: Yuri Vladomirovic Some "maybe" useful changin ideas (non of them will solve theblaster issue): Brutix/Eos/AStarte -- as said before, instead of the rep bonus give them, as written by someone before: 10% max armor amount bonus / skill Myrmi -- instead of the rep bonus give: them +10m3 bandwith / skill, so a perfect bc5 skill will let them fly 5 heavies Btw, its about gddmn time to give us t2 versions of the tier2 bcs Oh now those ideas I like!
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.04 10:36:00 - [119] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Taak Coram It's funny, when I started it was "nerf Gallente!!" and "Boost Amarr!" Funny how things change. Indeed... it's because CCP did it. -Liang The whole boost caldari whines fell on deaf ears tho..(if you dare call that lol-agility-lol-"boost" a decent one then...grrr) Proudly annoying FC's since 2007 Originally by: Sherrif Jones ding ding! Wrangler: Hello and w- ding ding! Wrangler: Damn nanowhiners...goes back to reading
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.04 10:47:00 - [120] Originally by: BiggestT The whole boost caldari whines fell on deaf ears tho..(if you dare call that lol-agility-lol-"boost" a decent one then...grrr) Agility isn't a boost? Hey, now you've got the best handling ships in the game (or matched with Minmatar, depending on ship class). Worst thing is, people still stupidly say they're "bricks", even though a, say, Drake handles every bit just as well as a unplated Hurricane (it's slower, but not by a huge margin either). Anyway, you got the torp boost, as well, making torps from a so-so weapon system to a face-melting weapon system. I don't recall the time anyone else was given a flat out 33% DPS boost. That alone made your BS very good altogether. That doesn't even discuss the nerfs to other races which made you better in comparison. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint

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