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Car Wars Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:48:00 - [1] Edited by: Car Wars on 02/09/2008 12:51:15 Edited by: Car Wars on 02/09/2008 12:49:14 Somebody a long time ago made a nice post about this. This is not about fleet or large gang pvp. Problem: -PvP is not a true profession, you can not make a living out of it. There is no incentive for people going out solo or in small gangs. The risk to get blobbed and thus risk vs reward is increasing. -PvP has very low reward to the risk taken. Tech II items are cheap and no real reward. occasional rare faction fits excluded. -blobs are ever so common, without nano as a way of escaping them, risks will increase even more for pvping in nme space. -if I lose my ship i can not replace it with my earnings, i have to mine, npc, mission run... that is not my profession. if i lose a fitted astarte of 150m and up this would mean about an average of >50 kills to break even with the current loot values. risk vs reward is going more and more down the drain. In the old days i could live of loot gathered with pvp / pirating. There is no direct solution to this problem though. Maybe a bounty system for killing solo might work but would be hard to implement. It is sad though because small gang /solo pvp is where eve can really shine and where you skills do matter. Maybe you guys have some ideas to make solo / small gang pvp more attractive to people. discuss..
Car Wars Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.02 12:48:00 - [2] Edited by: Car Wars on 02/09/2008 12:51:15 Edited by: Car Wars on 02/09/2008 12:49:14 Somebody a long time ago made a nice post about this. This is not about fleet or large gang pvp. Problem: -PvP is not a true profession, you can not make a living out of it. There is no incentive for people going out solo or in small gangs. The risk to get blobbed and thus risk vs reward is increasing. -PvP has very low reward to the risk taken. Tech II items are cheap and no real reward. occasional rare faction fits excluded. -blobs are ever so common, without nano as a way of escaping them, risks will increase even more for pvping in nme space. -if I lose my ship i can not replace it with my earnings, i have to mine, npc, mission run... that is not my profession. if i lose a fitted astarte of 150m and up this would mean about an average of >50 kills to break even with the current loot values. risk vs reward is going more and more down the drain. In the old days i could live of loot gathered with pvp / pirating. There is no direct solution to this problem though. Maybe a bounty system for killing solo might work but would be hard to implement. It is sad though because small gang /solo pvp is where eve can really shine and where you skills do matter. Maybe you guys have some ideas to make solo / small gang pvp more attractive to people. discuss..
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.02 13:09:00 - [3] From a professional pirate's viewpoint: Originally by: Car Wars -PvP is not a true profession, you can not make a living out of it. There is no incentive for people going out solo or in small gangs. The risk to get blobbed and thus risk vs reward is increasing. Well... yes, but on the other hand piracy is a valid and 'true' profession. The incentive to solo or small gang is so you actually get some rewards to being with - if you fly in ten man gangs, a, say, BS kill will yield approximately 1.5M in loot (on average). That's downright pathetic. Kill the same target with two people, and that's 7.5M - which is already fairly decent. The minimum amount of force (people) you can bring to kill a certain target brings the best rewards. I do piracy as a profession. I don't think it would be a viable profession without ransoming and preying on haulers/targets which don't really stand a chance. Originally by: Car Wars -PvP has very low reward to the risk taken. Tech II items are cheap and no real reward. occasional rare faction fits excluded. Admittedly true. Generally the rewards from killing a PvP ship are fairly bad - and it scales very badly, too. Kill a T2-fit cruiser, you get 6-7 million worth of loot at best. Kill a rigged HAC costing 150 million, and you still get maybe 8-9 million worth of loot (and, if you can stick around etc, probably 5 million of salvage on average). Risks, on the other hand, are quite big, and scale up tramendously as you fly bigger and nastier ships. I restrict myself to Tier 2 BCs for general piracy, because flying HACs/CS would make it very hard to turn a profit with them - the amount of kills you need to pay one off is simply too large. Originally by: Car Wars -if I lose my ship i can not replace it with my earnings, i have to mine, npc, mission run... that is not my profession. if i lose a fitted astarte of 150m and up this would mean about an average of >50 kills to break even with the current loot values. risk vs reward is going more and more down the drain. In the old days i could live of loot gathered with pvp / pirating. There is no direct solution to this problem though. Maybe a bounty system for killing solo might work but would be hard to implement. It is sad though because small gang /solo pvp is where eve can really shine and where you skills do matter. Well, I have to agree that risk/reward balance is horribly out of whack for T2 ships. The real issue, imo, is the low extracted value off a kill (the ratio of ship cost v loot cost has been steadily going worse, with T2 ships, rigs, general devaluation of T2 modules). For a pirate that leaves ransoming (which means overpowering your target by a fairly large margin, and relies on a co-operative customer and relatively ideal cirrumstances), while attempting to minimize loss costs (hence, I fly BCs 90% of the time) and risks (meaning, roaming is a issue in larger ships - and given I'm a low-sec pirate, the new FW blobs with tons of fast little ships really creates a lot of issues in the roaming department which was previously quite feasible), in order to stay financially afloat. Giving us something extra (maybe more T2 salvage, or w/e) from T2 ship kills, and something extra from rigged ships would go a long way to improve the risk/reward balance of PvP in general. Simply, far too much gets destroyed, and it only gets worse when you consider bigger (or T2, or rigged) ships.
Vengal Seyhan Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.09.02 13:39:00 - [4] Originally by: Cpt Branko For a pirate that leaves ransoming (which means overpowering your target by a fairly large margin, and relies on a co-operative customer and relatively ideal cirrumstances). Heh. I've been ransomed a few times - as a victim it's definitely preferrable to having your ship blown up, as long as you negotiate to the right price. The problem I have with it is the relatively high proportion of ***s who ransom then blow you up anyway, to demonstrate how nber they are. Originally by:** Cpt Branko Giving us something extra (maybe more T2 salvage, or w/e) from T2 ship kills, and something extra from rigged ships would go a long way to improve the risk/reward balance of PvP in general. Simply, far too much gets destroyed, and it only gets worse when you consider bigger (or T2, or rigged) ships. Pretty much the entire reason I don't PvP often - making ships takes me a long time. If I win half the time it's still costing me 80% of the ship value to fight. A HAC costs 70M to invent. 20M to fit. Say I blow up another HAC and get 10M salvageable items... that still leaves over 80M to pay off to break even on the ship. Average rates of income generation in Eve are 20-30M an hour for mission running or mining.... more for some activities, if you're lucky enough to be in the right place or own a dysp moon. So that's two to three hours of your life spent to acquire a ship for someone to blown up in two minutes. It's no wonder carebears don't go to lowsec, and if they do they certainly don't look for PvP, unless it's in a Rfiter or similar....and what Rifter will survive against a guy who can throwaway Ishtars because he owns the BPO? Currently, PvP is a sport for the rich, not for the masses.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.09.02 14:52:00 - [5] Originally by: Car Wars blobs are ever so common Don't feel offended but that sentence from a BoB member made me smile But basically I understand what you mean and agree with you. I'm not around long enough to know from experience but I have just heard that some time ago the loot drops and salvage were nerfed. However, as mentioned above, when you can resist the urge to shoot everything in your sights and ransom every now and then, pvp can fund itself.
Bad Borris Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2008.09.02 15:19:00 - [6] The problem isnt that there is no money in it, it is that we all pvp in gangs so there is more competition for the available loot. The issue therefore is how to make solo pvp viable or with making 0.0 more profitable. People are able to make sufficient isk in 0.0 to fund pvp and more.... 0.0 space holding alliances are meant to filter the wealth gained from holding space (moon mining) down to the members. Alliances like bob, ra, goons, razor and MM should have strong industrial backbones which make being a part of the alliance and corporation profitable for the individual. The idea of pvp in 0.0 therfore is to maintain the wealth generating capability which you hold. Any added isk you can gain from it doing that pvp is a bonus. Obviously the alliances which strike a good balance between providing for its member and being able to field a strong pvp force is likely to have more longevity than an alliance that either has a strong bias toward pvp or a bias toward the industrial side of 0.0 life. Piracy is another issue altogether but the issue isnt necessarily to do with the value of the loot but with populating low sec. At the moment pirate on pirate is more commonplace than pirate on low sec industrialist for example. The biggest problems with the economy are bought isk, macro farmers and total carebears that never lose anything. The solution is a shit load more space imo. Extend low-sec, extend 0.0 and keep extending it with more conqeurable space as well as pirate regions. It seems to me that the reason why you refer to the early days being more profitable isnt only because items were more rare and therefore more valuable but also because there was more space/head.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.09.02 15:27:00 - [7] Originally by: Bad Borris The solution is a shit load more space imo. Extend low-sec, extend 0.0 and keep extending it with more conqeurable space as well as pirate regions. It seems to me that the reason why you refer to the early days being more profitable isnt only because items were more rare and therefore more valuable but also because there was more space/head. Might work, maybe in combination with more incentives for carebears..?
Borar	Posted - 2008.09.02 15:27:00 - [8] In eve ,pvp is profit ,the game is made this way. Conquer space ,get those nice moons, profit.10/10 complexes The profit is there alot.But i can`t help it that you don`t profit with what you conquer. But don`t worry ,every KING needs soldiers that don`t think to much,otherwise the KING will get in trouble. And eve is full of people like you that like pvp but never profit.They still needs to buy there own shit. And the alliance wallet is getting bigger and bigger alliance leaders and ceo`s also bigger and bigger. Look at BIG corp maybe you like that ?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.02 17:32:00 - [9] Cpt Branko has explained pretty well the situation of people doing PvP for PvP sake. Simply in any PvP encounter the total assets of the 2 character decrease, so PvP alone will always be a negative sum activity. Pirating is a specific subset of PvP combat were you search for generally weaker targets so that the loss of assets is more often felt by the target and not the pirate, so, for the pirate, that part of PvP combat can generate isk/assets. For the general economy of the game it still decrease total assets. PvP when done for controlling territory/resources is a means to generate more PvE resources (ratting grounds, moon minerals, low sec/0.0 agents). If the resources are shared by the corporation or alliance getting them they make combat PvP a viable profession (you fight to control a dysprosium moon, moon mining income pay for your PvP ships) as you essentially fight for a pay. If the alliance/corp management hoard the income for personal use and don't leave you the time and possibility to use good ratting ground you are paying for the privilege to PvP.
D4RT N3RDiUS	Posted - 2008.09.02 17:38:00 - [10] the problem is not if i am in a good alliance or not but that is what eve are becoming now only a few alliance profit and a few ppl earning the big cash ... now small pirates corp or alone pirats cant profit like the old days becouse of eve new logistic sistems ..( jump freigters , jump portals , carriers etc etc ) if you see in the old days the only way to go to any 00 deep space was in industrials and conboys and that was good easy kills if you are a good pirate ... pirate as a profession in eve is almost forgoten low sec got no interest in ppl becouse of the risk/benefits so we need to go to and join a good pvp alliance and become part of the bigest blob.. but only for survival becouse you now im a grunt and dont got any profits of the dispro moons who bobs and big alliance got .. is sad but small roaming pvp gangs are decresing a lot after the nano patch and i think this is one big error in eve... small gangs and solo pvp are the fun part of eve for almost ani good pvp pilot.. fleet are good if we dont got lagfest or big blobs or titans i hate win buttons XD ... dont now for mi personal opinion i think ccp is going to the wrong way and they gona make a BIG FAIL.. but only time let us now . if you want pvp as a true profecion make the big allance pay for each kill you make simple as that better the kill better the reward Then i go to ani alliance to kill ppl :) if they pay they got mi services like the real merc or the real soldiers . create a division and a payrole for pvpers in alliance or corps so anione who got a kill from a war they got profit simple like that ranks are good to so we can get more pay becouse we are the elite no? and we get mor rank wen we kill more ppl . and for small gangs or solo pvp.. mmm... is hard to get good ideas here.. yup the only solution i got is get back to old days in eve .. no carriers no jump freigters..no jump portals.. now almost anione got carriers is sad but is true.. capitals are the new bss.. or maybe we can do nothing and wait till ccp make one boring game who depends only on blobs o wait XD this is happening rigth now! XD solo pvp and small gangs are doom if ccp dont look at us a litle and stop hearing he wrong person.

Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.09.02 18:01:00 - [11] PVP as a profession is partly about getting kills and loot but mostly about not taking losses so the loot does not get soaked up by needing replacements. 1 good pvp ship can cost 200 mil while you may only make 2-10 mil per kill. The math is simple.
Car Wars Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.02 18:56:00 - [12] Originally by: D4RT N3RDiUS the problem is not if i am in a good alliance or not but that is what eve are becoming now only a few alliance profit and a few ppl earning the big cash ... now small pirates corp or alone pirats cant profit like the old days becouse of eve new logistic sistems ..( jump freigters , jump portals , carriers etc etc ) if you see in the old days the only way to go to any 00 deep space was in industrials and conboys and that was good easy kills if you are a good pirate ... pirate as a profession in eve is almost forgoten low sec got no interest in ppl becouse of the risk/benefits so we need to go to and join a good pvp alliance and become part of the bigest blob.. but only for survival becouse you now im a grunt and dont got any profits of the dispro moons who bobs and big alliance got .. is sad but small roaming pvp gangs are decresing a lot after the nano patch and i think this is one big error in eve... small gangs and solo pvp are the fun part of eve for almost ani good pvp pilot.. fleet are good if we dont got lagfest or big blobs or titans i hate win buttons XD ... dont now for mi personal opinion i think ccp is going to the wrong way and they gona make a BIG FAIL.. but only time let us now . think you got it right there, this is part of the problem. Small gang/solo pvp is less and less viable, but it is actually the only real pvp. Several patches back low sec would be a place to find this sort of pvp, but also 0.0 would be a place to roam, lots of traffic and small gangs moving assets around (freighter escort for example). The rest of pvp is mostly blob or fleet lagging, although they serve a purpose they are not fun. The end goal is fun, e.a. holding space, isk reward. This is however not achievable for small corporations or solo players. You need to be with the blob or die, cause this is the way eve is going... Don't we all want to see 5 vs 5 fights more often? that would be fun as a reward, thats priceless.
Car Wars Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:06:00 - [13] Originally by: Murina PVP as a profession is partly about getting kills and loot but mostly about not taking losses so the loot does not get soaked up by needing replacements. 1 good pvp ship can cost 200 mil while you may only make 2-10 mil per kill. The math is simple. i know how to minimize my losses, no probs. But what about new guys. It is getting increasingly harder with every patch. At first you could take a cruiser and go solo in 0.0 and low sec. because of increased hp you needed to switch to bigger ships. Because of dictor and rapiers you needed nano's. because of hics, you now need a scout in even low sec. Because nano is less viable, you will have to have a second char scouting for you for sure eveywhere you go. I already adapted and trained up a falcon alt to go with my astarte. That is two chars i now have to upkeep to be able to "solo" pvp. What is next i ask, 3 accounts? Might need an extra computer then lol. This is all a bit much if you are new to the game and want to try out pvp, with one account. The bar has been raised, the risk and skills required to solo pvp have gone up and up. It is still doable, but not really easy to do for new guys, small corps etc. Hence everybody joins the biggest alliance they can get into and make the biggest gang and fly around zapping everything in 1 sec with too much dps. its perfectly logical but a bad development.
D4RT N3RDiUS	Posted - 2008.09.02 19:25:00 - [14] /agree some ppl thing going in one blob of 200 and figt 200 more is pvp and this is not... XD the only person in there who do something is the flet comander the rest are just muppets XD who f1,f2,f3,f4 etc till they got primary... sadly pvp is going that way and lagfest is the future.. got not solution maybe some dev got one nice idea like get more profits from low sec or player owned structures ( outpost ) in low sec and maybe alliances cant go to empire becuse you are enemies of the empire ? xD lol XD and if you cant enter empire.. 00 have more life and more markets so we can get this ppl moving around there with xpensive stuffs and more wars for fuel and items or things XD dont now something is going to hapend or eve we now is gona get more and more boring :)
KtB Gallente Armada.	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:29:00 - [15] If the ships actually dropped rigs it could be more profitable. However this wouldnt make sense since rigs are built into a ship and not just fittings. Unless on destroying a ship you got a significant number of rigs parts that could be rebuilt into new rigs. Say 30/40% of rig parts survive the explosion of each individual rig and use up relatively little cargo space, then there'd be more profit to be had in killing ships.
D4RT N3RDiUS	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:39:00 - [16] Quote: If the ships actually dropped rigs it could be more profitable. However this wouldnt make sense since rigs are built into a ship and not just fittings. Unless on destroying a ship you got a significant number of rigs parts that could be rebuilt into new rigs. Say 30/40% of rig parts survive the explosion of each individual rig and use up relatively little cargo space, then there'd be more profit to be had in killing ships. nice idea... and we can drop implants from pods to ? tahs is posibe and can make a lot more profit killing ppl and becoming a pk :)
KtB Gallente Armada.	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:47:00 - [17] Edited by: KtB on 02/09/2008 20:50:56 I never mentioned anything about implants. I'm pretty sure a weapon hitting a corpse would leave nothing in space :P. But if modules can survive a ships destruction why cant tritanium bars or something of the sort from the rigs. Which they do from wrecks. Actually from that maybe it would make sense for the salvage you get from t2 wrecks to include rigs. Since they would still be attached to the wreck. Upping the salvage on t2 wrecks if the ship was rigged. Although personally i don't know if i could be bothered slavaging wrecks lol. Just an idea..
Crowdad Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:51:00 - [18] Hell, I think we'll have to see... Minmatar and Amarr lowsec have sparked with new life in FW after several large corporations left. Small gang pvp is really on the move there...
KtB Gallente Armada.	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:55:00 - [19] I'm in minnie / amarr lowsec fw atm myself. And in the time ive been doing its been getting more blobby. One faction blobs one hides then vice versa. Not much small gang pvp, and when it is its mainly t1 ships doing plexes so once again the isk reward is dire :(.
Crowdad Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.02 20:57:00 - [20] But I'll agree with OP that it's only about losing isk, and not making money. I don't think CCP want to change that really... And the industrialists don't want it either. Carebears are happy to make money off people who lose ships to "pointless pvp"... tbh Carebears are winning the battle with the CSMs... they probably provide much more calm and calculated reports. But CCP should agree that a lot of its game mechanics are out-dated and have been brought all out of whack by many expansions and re-balancing over the years. Still, you can't blame CCP... They get so many brilliant ideas in, and don't have the time to implement a single percent of them...

KtB Gallente Armada.	Posted - 2008.09.02 21:23:00 - [21] True true. I'm sure someone of ccp said with the introduction of the faction cruisers and other market mojo jojo hacs would be coming down in price. Greedy inventors me thinks :(.
Oregon sinful Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.03 02:57:00 - [22] I think the reward is EXTREMELY high imo. And the risk is virtually ZERO. Allow me to explain. When I gang up with my bro's my mates whatever, we go out bs a little find people who don't hide fast enough or well enough till we hopefully find a group of individuals willing to gang up and fight us. My Reward seldom comes to me in the form of isk (though the researched chimera bpo I pulled out of a shuttle wreck in lowsec was nice) The wealth I gain in Adrenaline, comrade, and straight up fun is unrivaled in any other aspect of EVE. My risk, a bit of my time and maybe spending 15mins on a trading alt to make some isk. Isk wise, your absolutly correct. PvP won't bring in a lot of isk. However it brings soo much more to this game than mindlessly killing mindless crappy AI npcs or shooting rocks all day.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.09.03 04:13:00 - [23] Going to sound like a broken record, but the problem is there's no incentive. If the valuable parts of space were all in lowsec/0.0, then you'd have plenty of meaningful PVP. It wouldn't be random "lulz lets go kill shit" PVP, but it would be PvP over essential, valuable resources. It wouldn't make you ISK in and of itself, but it would let you tap into the very valuable resources which would do effectively the same thing. Missions get in the way of this
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Imperial Servants	Posted - 2008.09.03 06:00:00 - [24] So now the PvP'ers, or pirates, want their ships for pretty much free. Should the carebear you just blew up also get their replacement for free then? You chose your profession, that it's a hard profession is not CCP's fault, but rather market forces.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.03 07:30:00 - [25] Edited by: Soporo on 03/09/2008 07:35:46 Meh, I see their point. It's basically the very same reason people don't much mission in Lo. It's just extremely difficult to do properly (without losing the bank) without blobbing up but the mechanics rewards lean heavily toward "the fewer the better". But, even a token reward/bounty for killing a ship could maybe be worthwhile. I havent thought it through, but maybe a small reward for each ship kill by ship class could be awarded. Of course multiple peeps on the km might mean a split of the already small benefit. Maybe this would foster more solos and duos, dunno. Regardless, maybe the rumored Bounty Hunting change will actually be viable to work. edit: actually, all theyd have to do is tweak the drop % chance for player ships. Not sure how that would pan out. It may work out now with the proposed Suicide changes be harsher penalties.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.09.03 08:41:00 - [26] so you are complaining that you cannot make a profit on destroying things ? WOW ... what a discovery ... Seriously folks, think about things before you post. Time vs reward (don't put risk in here, it has nothing to do with it). Building a freaking t1 cruiser takes a few hours (mine, reprocess, build), destroying it takes a few seconds, a couple of minutes at most. Given the relative time difference, what are you expecting the destruction reward should be ? After all the guy building the cruiser used much more of his time for the actual work than the PvPer destroying it. PvP is there to secure asstets (space, moons, roids, plexes etc.) it's those assets that generate income, not PvP. Only income generating PvP activity is actualy piracy, and that is a lawless profesion, so don't complain if you are not making a living on it. --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.03 09:29:00 - [27] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/09/2008 09:29:40 Originally by: Hugh Ruka Only income generating PvP activity is actualy piracy, and that is a lawless profesion, so don't complain if you are not making a living on it. Meh, nobody is whining, I make a stady profit off piracy. Many don't, but oh well. Although, if we look at the most profitable ways to do piracy (not safest, most profitable), these are getting nerfed on a periodical basis (introduction of FW hugely decreased the viability of solo roaming, web nerf decreases the viability of solo / 2-3 people camping). Furthermore, the introduction and poliferation of T2 ships has nerfed pirate risk/reward, as did rigs. It's simply much much (incredibly!) better to kill T1 cruisers (while flying a T1 cruiser) then kill rigged HACs while flying (and therefore risking) a rigged HAC. On your average T1 cruiser kill, you recieve some 25-30% of the total value of the kill, while for a average HAC you recieve something closer to 5%. THAT is a issue. Personally, I think that more T2 salvage + getting 40% of the rig components (via salvage, for instance) after blowing up a ship would correct that. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint

CCP Dionysus	Posted - 2008.09.03 09:33:00 - [28] Hi there. Some nice points raised. Basically - PvP is not a profession. It doesn't get you any isk, but makes all sides loose isk (destroyed items, repairs, ammo, etc) Ship shooting ship is what you do to protect your income, it doesn't make you income by itself.

Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.03 09:40:00 - [29] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/09/2008 09:44:55 Originally by: CCP Dionysus Hi there. Some nice points raised. Basically - PvP is not a profession. It doesn't get you any isk, but makes all sides loose isk (destroyed items, repairs, ammo, etc) Ship shooting ship is what you do to protect your income, it doesn't make you income by itself. Well, yeah, but piracy, for instance, is a profession. Suicide ganking was a profession. You're simply wrong when you say PvP doesn't make you any ISK and only makes all sides lose ISK. What you probably meant is that ISK is lost globally speaking, since one side gains much less then the other side loses. The fact you can kill people's ships and take their stuff is what made me start playing (and kept me playing) EvE all this time At any rate, why is the huge disparity between the % loot drop when killing a (rigged) T2 ship compared to a T1 ship? It would be rather easy to fix by tweaking salvage numbers and making rigged ships drop/salvage into a part of the components used in rig construction. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint

CCP Dionysus	Posted - 2008.09.03 09:59:00 - [30] well, yes. Piracy is a profession. Suicide ganking might net you some money (but we'd prefer if it was done mainly to stop the other guy from making money). But the shooty bits dont make you money. Salvaging, looting etc - that might make you some money, but not necessarily more than you lost if you get destroyed.


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