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Amandin Adouin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:48:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Amandin Adouin on 08/09/2008 20:55:00
I just wanted to make a statement about how it doesn't have to be all or nothing, that maybe we need a middle ground solution. Mike, it sounds like it's perfectly safe for you to own a gun. And it sounds like where you live, it's much safer for people to have them than it is down here. I just wanted to point out that it's not always so safe. But I don't think banning guns is the answer either. I think people like you are perfectly qualified to have them.
I didn't want to post much in here because I really don't care all that much about gun control, I don't know enough about it to say much, and it's a very complex issue. But now I left a few posts, dammit, just because I got ****ed about a specific comment  .
Edited.
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Kephael
Caldari
LEAP Corp
Ursa Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:52:00 -
[182]
 Originally by: Amandin Adouin
Originally by: Kephael
I had a grandfather killed by a drunk driver, is his death any different than your mothers? While both are tragic death is death.
Well, if your grandfather died in a drunk driving accident and I never lost anyone to drunk driving, I hope I would have the tact to not say something like 'well your grandfather would have died anyway, so let's let anyone drive drunk'.
I really didn't want to get drug into this thread, as I'm not some big anti-gun person. But you just had to go and say something so personally insulting that I just couldn't avoid commenting. Thanks.
My apologies, I did not wish to offend you, I simply wished to demonstrate how in the end, death is death.
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Amandin Adouin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:53:00 -
[183]
Thanks, now I feel bad  .
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Death4free
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:55:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Are there bans on archery in europe? It would be a shame. Ive had lots of fun shooting at targets on hay stacks as well. A gun is no more designed to kill people than a bow is. Both are simply devices that by one means or another impart energy onto a projectile in such a way that it is reasonably controllable.
once again i lolled so hard
it is illegal to practice archery if your not in a shooting range as such and somehow i think a gun is alot more dangerous than a bow and arrows and a lot less noticable (and somehow in the time it takes to put the arrow in the bow sight your target and fire everyone within a five mile radius would be gone ^^ whereas with a gun its almost as simple as aim in general direction of person flick the safety switch off and bam dead person
Eve information kiosk
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:55:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Amandin Adouin
I just wanted to make a statement about how it doesn't have to be all or nothing, that maybe we need a middle ground solution. Mike, it sounds like it's perfectly safe for you to own a gun. And it sounds like where you live, it's much safer for people to have them than it is down here. I just wanted to point out that it's not always so safe. But I don't think banning guns is the answer either. I think people like you are perfectly qualified to have them.
And I completely agree with the middle ground. What I see in that video is simply awesome and I believe gun safety (as in Hunters ed) should be mandatory for anyone wishing to own a firearm. My dad made sure I got my raining before he took me out hunting, and before that I got to pack around a toy gun that could transform into a robot (wonder what happened to that thing).
And I'll do the same for my kids if they show a interest in guns. they will learn that it's not a toy and to be taken lightly. They will learn to use proper protection when firing a gun. They will learn to clean a gun. They will learn to value a gun.
And the same will go for cars, horses, computers, or whatever else comes to mind.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:58:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Death4free
once again i lolled so hard
it is illegal to practice archery if your not in a shooting range as such and somehow i think a gun is alot more dangerous than a bow and arrows and a lot less noticable (and somehow in the time it takes to put the arrow in the bow sight your target and fire everyone within a five mile radius would be gone ^^ whereas with a gun its almost as simple as aim in general direction of person flick the safety switch off and bam dead person
Wow, I wish it was that easy.
Please, just stop, your giving me a headache. BTW that bow ban is funny. That IS something I have on my gunrack atm, but no string.
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Amandin Adouin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.08 21:02:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
And the same will go for cars, horses, computers, or whatever else comes to mind.
Motorcycles and cowboy boots? (I hear those spurs can be pretty dangerous)
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.09.08 21:10:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Death4free
Originally by: Vabjekf
Are there bans on archery in europe? It would be a shame. Ive had lots of fun shooting at targets on hay stacks as well. A gun is no more designed to kill people than a bow is. Both are simply devices that by one means or another impart energy onto a projectile in such a way that it is reasonably controllable.
once again i lolled so hard
it is illegal to practice archery if your not in a shooting range as such and somehow i think a gun is alot more dangerous than a bow and arrows
That just shows your warped understanding of the situation. Honestly if i had to chose between being shot with a gun or an arrow, i would take the gun. Its more likely to cleanly pass through you, and wood could carry bacteria or other things. By the way its more unpleasant to be stabbed than it is to be shot, also.
Quote:
and a lot less noticeable (and somehow in the time it takes to put the arrow in the bow sight your target and fire everyone within a five mile radius would be gone ^^ whereas with a gun its almost as simple as aim in general direction of person flick the safety switch off and bam dead person
besides with an arrow you can stay stealthy and pick people off, they don't know which direction to run away from! which cover is safe!
A problem i see in this thread is the strange idea that some lethal things are somehow capable of 'killing you more dead than others'.
This is going to be a huge cliche and i apologize, but i remind you 9/11 happened due to box cutters.
Its troublesome to see people who give some weapons less respect than other weapons trying to dictate on matters like these. Lethal is lethal, period. WE understand that. Probably because we fully appreciate what a weapon can do. And as i outlined in an above post im far from being a 'gun nut'. I was simply familiarized with the subject instead of having it hidden away from me.
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nahtoh
Caldari
StrikerCorp
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Posted - 2008.09.08 21:24:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Death4free
whereas u can decide on a whim to pop down to a shop and buy a gun which is just ....confoundly stupid
And what happened in the uk when brpought in even more restictive gun laws? of yeah the actual gun crime stats increased...
****ed off a number of law abbiding people and had zreo effect on ilegal use use of firearms...
Lets not forget as I have already mentioned one of the snowdrop campainers managed to get the UK cadet forces budget increase stopped just because they (perhaps a couple of times a year) allow the cadets to fire some rounds down range. Thats where you kind of logic falls down big style.
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"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Nadija
House of Tempers
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Posted - 2008.09.08 23:57:00 -
[190]
Scary to think that an 11 old girl has been taught that by her dad! She'll either join the army or go on 1 of those psycho kill sprees 
Suppling razor blades to Emos everywhere since 2006Ö |
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.09 00:08:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Nadija
Scary to think that an 11 old girl has been taught that by her dad! She'll either join the army or go on 1 of those psycho kill sprees
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Death4free
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
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Posted - 2008.09.09 12:14:00 -
[192]
Originally by: nahtoh
Originally by: Death4free
whereas u can decide on a whim to pop down to a shop and buy a gun which is just ....confoundly stupid
And what happened in the uk when brpought in even more restictive gun laws? of yeah the actual gun crime stats increased...
****ed off a number of law abbiding people and had zreo effect on ilegal use use of firearms...
Lets not forget as I have already mentioned one of the snowdrop campainers managed to get the UK cadet forces budget increase stopped just because they (perhaps a couple of times a year) allow the cadets to fire some rounds down range. Thats where you kind of logic falls down big style.
this thread needed more bump
the reason that the crime rate is so high and england and the gun crime is pretty bad is that police cant do shit in this country and neither can people in general thanks to health and safety (which is partially americas fault and partially ours for bandwaggoning) if the police did have guns and it wasnt illegal to kick the shit outa criminals then wed have a lower crime rate but regardless you wouldnt need guns for it (though police should still have them)
Eve information kiosk
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.09 13:27:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Death4free
this thread needed more bump
the reason that the crime rate is so high and england and the gun crime is pretty bad is that police cant do shit in this country and neither can people in general thanks to health and safety (which is partially americas fault and partially ours for bandwaggoning) if the police did have guns and it wasnt illegal to kick the shit outa criminals then wed have a lower crime rate but regardless you wouldnt need guns for it (though police should still have them)
Since when did the US start making laws for England?
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Death4free
Caldari
Ninjas N Pirates
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Posted - 2008.09.09 13:41:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Death4free
this thread needed more bump
the reason that the crime rate is so high and england and the gun crime is pretty bad is that police cant do shit in this country and neither can people in general thanks to health and safety (which is partially americas fault and partially ours for bandwaggoning) if the police did have guns and it wasnt illegal to kick the shit outa criminals then wed have a lower crime rate but regardless you wouldnt need guns for it (though police should still have them)
Since when did the US start making laws for England?
they didnt but you started thatstupid hea;lth and safety bullshit that our country just took outa control
yes thats right its your fault dont try and get outa it!
Eve information kiosk
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.09 13:55:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Death4free
they didnt but you started that stupid health and safety bullshit that our country just took outa control
yes thats right its your fault dont try and get outa it!
Um, wow, just wow.
Well on the bright side your at least holding true to your inability to take responsibility for your own mistakes.
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Pria Pus
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Posted - 2008.09.09 15:46:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Nadija
Scary to think that an 11 old girl has been taught that by her dad! She'll either join the army or go on 1 of those psycho kill sprees
[famous picardpicture removed for shortining the quote]
@Micheal Dietrich (between nice german name you carry there ;-) ) and all the other americans here:
Don't even try to understand a european on this one, please.
As long as you are not raised and educated as one you can't ever understand that, so don't even try to.
Or before you try:
Imagine you live in a country where every single city, village, house older than let's say threehundred years (roughly the time since the founding of the US, give or take some decades) have seen at least two major wars if not more, plus some more little battles. Imagine you live in a land big as the USA and there are 20 different languages. Imagine further that in this country a handsign that for you and your ppl means something very nice and encouraging is only onehundred kilometers in some direction a deadly insult. Imagine now that this land have seen wars lasting longer than a third of the time YOUR country exist, getting more than a third of its population plundered, ****d and murdered. With every war.
The US in WW2 lost an estimated total of 250 thousand troops. Germany (i am, so i take this number - knowing we start this mess. Figures just for makeing a statement) lost nearly 3 Million - and with this we didn't even get close to the top of lost lives.
And now with all this in mind:
Ask yourself one question: Would you allow your children to play around with a weapon that is theoretically able to kill the same amount of people your country lost in WW2 in under 6 hours? Really?
And to the europeans in here:
Leave them in peace. Don't try to impose your moral understanding on people that are raised and educated in knowledge that the possesion of arms is right.
Remember that wearing arms in europe is not forbiden for that long.
We murdered each other in the millions to come to where we are today.
Maybe the americans are not THAT stupid. Maybe they are more reasonable with weapons.
Personally i don't believe so - but who am i to judge this.
And with all that said:
Holy shit - a child with a gun. What will be the next? An adolescent with a Nuke? Just for hunting purposes, of course O_o
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.09 16:15:00 -
[197]
Originally by: Pria Pus
Or before you try:
Imagine you live in a country where every single city, village, house older than let's say threehundred years (roughly the time since the founding of the US, give or take some decades) have seen at least two major wars if not more, plus some more little battles. Imagine you live in a land big as the USA and there are 20 different languages. Imagine further that in this country a handsign that for you and your ppl means something very nice and encouraging is only onehundred kilometers in some direction a deadly insult. Imagine now that this land have seen wars lasting longer than a third of the time YOUR country exist, getting more than a third of its population plundered, ****d and murdered. With every war.
Wars aside you just described the US. Come to any major city and the first thing you will see is that certain sections are very specific in nationality. Italians live in one area, russians in another, hispanics get their neck of the woods, and chinese another. I spent my time in polish country in Chicago due to my heritage (after getting lost in chinatown and the projects for an hour).
We have the sign language thing and also (as stupid as it is) color language. You walk into a neighborhood wearing the wrong shoelaces and certain people take offense to it.
Now in the end this country has also seen it's wars, but aside from Pearl Harbor most of the wars were in the days of the muskets.
As for the euro's, I don't care what their laws state. If they want to live in a land without guns or whatever then fine, great, that's their thing. My issue is them seeing a video like the one posted in the op, freaking out, and making rather idiotic statements like 'oh, she's gonna be a mass murderer now' or 'They're training her for the cold war' or 'no 11 yo needs to know this'. Not to mention some very warped views of the US. I guess people get the idea that we're still stuck in the wild west or something.
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Pria Pus
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Posted - 2008.09.09 17:05:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Pria Pus
Or before you try:
Imagine you live in a country where every single city, village, house older than let's say threehundred years (roughly the time since the founding of the US, give or take some decades) have seen at least two major wars if not more, plus some more little battles. Imagine you live in a land big as the USA and there are 20 different languages. Imagine further that in this country a handsign that for you and your ppl means something very nice and encouraging is only onehundred kilometers in some direction a deadly insult. Imagine now that this land have seen wars lasting longer than a third of the time YOUR country exist, getting more than a third of its population plundered, ****d and murdered. With every war.
Wars aside you just described the US. Come to any major city and the first thing you will see is that certain sections are very specific in nationality. Italians live in one area, russians in another, hispanics get their neck of the woods, and chinese another. I spent my time in polish country in Chicago due to my heritage (after getting lost in chinatown and the projects for an hour).
We have the sign language thing and also (as stupid as it is) color language. You walk into a neighborhood wearing the wrong shoelaces and certain people take offense to it.
Now in the end this country has also seen it's wars, but aside from Pearl Harbor most of the wars were in the days of the muskets.
As for the euro's, I don't care what their laws state. If they want to live in a land without guns or whatever then fine, great, that's their thing. My issue is them seeing a video like the one posted in the op, freaking out, and making rather idiotic statements like 'oh, she's gonna be a mass murderer now' or 'They're training her for the cold war' or 'no 11 yo needs to know this'. Not to mention some very warped views of the US. I guess people get the idea that we're still stuck in the wild west or something.
One difference between Europa and US though, still. You have one main language - english. It is spoken by all your people to at least some extend. It might seem an inferior defference. But it isn't. For the rest - ok, true.
But don't make an issue out of people freaking out on some video. Believe me - your fellow countrymen are not better ;-)
On both sides you will find people thinking they are better educated, more intelligent oder simple superior by birthright to others.
and trying to fight and argue with them - well i suggest haveing a small interview with Don Quichote on this matter 
Personally i still think it is some very weird idea to teach a little girl the use of an assault rifle. But again - i don't understand it because i am not used to have guns in my surrounding. The first time i had a firearm - more so a semiautomatic- in my hands was in recruittraining. They better had given me a stick with a nail through one end. I nearly killed myself with that ****ing thing. We Germans can build weapons. We were not intended to use them. Everytime we do we mess things up.
So understand that -at least the germans in this thread- we can't understand your culture on this weaponthing. No matter how hard i try - it will still be creepy for me. My daughter has no use for a weapon and hopefully never will.
Because -and again consider my european heritage- for me the primary use of a semiautomatic firearm is killing other people. It is no hunting weapon. It is a weapon of war. Not a thing for a child hand.
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2008.09.09 17:28:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Pria Pus
Good points
It also it needs to be pointed out / reminded that many many of us in the states are only a few generations out of the Eurasian continents and still have family in many parts of the many countries that make up the "old world". So we have been rasied with "new world" and "old world" philosophies. Add in the rest of the mix here in the states, and as I have said before, you have one of the most dynamic countries in modern history. I doubt many of the current world governments could handle the US's population any better  , not that that is an excuse to stagnate and avoid change, but you will not take my guns 
The following is some real basic research.
Some numbers on deaths in the states from guns a pretty objective write up
vs.
Cars
vs.
Alcohol
vs.
Cars and alcohol
So by many peoples logic in here cars should be banned and all the good alcohol inthe world should also be banned because alcohol related deaths for sure trump deaths by guns on yalls side of the pond. Since irresponsible individuals abuse their rights with said materials and kill a whole lot of people or themselves all people should be restricted from using them is a plain old juvenile way to handle a situation. Responsibility is taught and represion of a poulations freedoms due to fear, missundestanding, and the realatively small number of individuals that make stupid decisions, is just plain bad karma.
"If you want my guns you will have to pry them from my cold dead hands"
unsure of the author
Slade
Originally by: Crumplecorn
NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
DesuSigs
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Ethidium Bromide
ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.09 17:32:00 -
[200]
wow! i think she could do the steyr aug in less than 20
got that one down to 49 back in military but it has a lot less parts tbh
Originally by: George Petsch
Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
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Micheal Dietrich
Caldari
Terradyne Networks
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Posted - 2008.09.09 17:49:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Pria Pus
Personally i still think it is some very weird idea to teach a little girl the use of an assault rifle. My daughter has no use for a weapon and hopefully never will.
Because -and again consider my european heritage- for me the primary use of a semiautomatic firearm is killing other people. It is no hunting weapon.
Think of it from this point of view:
Why do people rebuild classic cars? Why do they build model ships? Collect baseball cards? Own a collection of movies?
Because they are hobbies. I don't need an AK-47, I wanted an AK-47. Because I like guns. And from the looks of it so does this girl. I'm not gearing up for WW3. I'm not gearing up for a murder rampage. I'm going into the desert for a day of hanging out with friends who share a common interest and fun.
My AK-47 destroys old tv's and waterheaters. To my knowledge (at least since I've owned it) it has never killed a living soul. Does this still make it a weapon of war? Or an hobbyist item?
You see a weapon of destruction, I see something that made the Russians famous. You see a harmful item, I see a piece of history.
What the people can't get around is what it does, not what it can do. They simply look at it and think 'guns kill, guns are bad'. My guns are currently locked up, just sitting there. Are they still bad? Are they currently harming someone? When I take them to the firing range and set them on the tailgate are they causing damage? It's just wood and metal.
Magic 8 ball says that the little girl will most likely never need to use the gun for whatever reason, but it does say that she likes spending time with her father and sharing a common hobby. But for some reason the people take offense to it because she's not playing with barbies or chasing boys. They (and this really gets to me) take offense that this person is receiving proper training in the use of a firearm.
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Will Strafe
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Posted - 2008.09.09 18:16:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Originally by: Ren Surkova
Originally by: Bish Ounen
???
Oooookaaaayyy.....
You're a troll. Congrats.
yeah if anyone claims to be disturbed by this they must be a troll
You find a young girl taught the proper use, safety, and field strip techniques of firearms to be "disturbing"? Seems to me that learning how to properly use and respect firearms is preferable to quaking in the corner with fear about them.
This girl is obviously smart, focused, and dedicated to learn such a difficult skill at so young an age. I suspect that she will grow up to be a strong, independent and powerful woman someday. I have nothing but respect for a young person like this.
It's too bad you just don't get it.
I laugh at propaganda efforts like this. For anyone to truely have an approach like this is either a fool or; live in fear.
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kor anon
Amarr
Sons Of The Fallen
BROTHERS GRIM.
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Posted - 2008.09.09 18:24:00 -
[203]
Why the **** are people so scared of guns? I think that the parent of that child, can teach her whatever the hell she wants. I actually think its better to learn about guns through your parents because it teaches you about GUN DISCIPLINE. You respect the weapon as you know what it can do, and as such are less willing to use it in anger.
Plus a gun is only a tool, someone determined enough will try to kill you wheter or not they have a gun or not. Hell i know ways to kill someone with my bare hands, should my hands be confiscated because i MAY hurt someone with them? hell no.
Oh and im from England, so no racial stereotypes please
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nahtoh
Caldari
StrikerCorp
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Posted - 2008.09.09 21:55:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Pria Pus
Originally by: Micheal Dietrich
Originally by: Nadija
Scary to think that an 11 old girl has been taught that by her dad! She'll either join the army or go on 1 of those psycho kill sprees
[famous picardpicture removed for shortining the quote]
@Micheal Dietrich (between nice german name you carry there ;-) ) and all the other americans here:
Don't even try to understand a european on this one, please.
As long as you are not raised and educated as one you can't ever understand that, so don't even try to.
Or before you try:
Imagine you live in a country where every single city, village, house older than let's say threehundred years (roughly the time since the founding of the US, give or take some decades) have seen at least two major wars if not more, plus some more little battles. Imagine you live in a land big as the USA and there are 20 different languages. Imagine further that in this country a handsign that for you and your ppl means something very nice and encouraging is only onehundred kilometers in some direction a deadly insult. Imagine now that this land have seen wars lasting longer than a third of the time YOUR country exist, getting more than a third of its population plundered, ****d and murdered. With every war.
The US in WW2 lost an estimated total of 250 thousand troops. Germany (i am, so i take this number - knowing we start this mess. Figures just for makeing a statement) lost nearly 3 Million - and with this we didn't even get close to the top of lost lives.
And now with all this in mind:
Ask yourself one question: Would you allow your children to play around with a weapon that is theoretically able to kill the same amount of people your country lost in WW2 in under 6 hours? Really?
And to the europeans in here:
Leave them in peace. Don't try to impose your moral understanding on people that are raised and educated in knowledge that the possesion of arms is right.
Remember that wearing arms in europe is not forbiden for that long.
We murdered each other in the millions to come to where we are today.
Maybe the americans are not THAT stupid. Maybe they are more reasonable with weapons.
Personally i don't believe so - but who am i to judge this.
And with all that said:
Holy shit - a child with a gun. What will be the next? An adolescent with a Nuke? Just for hunting purposes, of course O_o
Don't ascribe you views to all Europeans...
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Sergeant Spot
Black Eclipse Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.10 08:38:00 -
[205]
Edited by: Sergeant Spot on 10/09/2008 08:43:07
If there are guns in a society, then teaching children about them should be done at about the same age you teach children to NOT run out into traffic, and for the same reasons.
I flat out don't believe that guns have ANY impact on how brutal or thuggish criminals are. The impact of guns on this is an absolute zero.
However, the presense of guns in society DOES impact how well armed a criminal or citizen is. It is also worth noting that most violent crime is commited by folks who know each other.
Its also worth noting that Criminals will have guns anyway, even if every gun factory in the world is shut down, all armies disarm, and all guns are destroyed. It does not take an especially big workshop to MAKE guns, even simple machineguns. Quality might leave a bit to be desired however....
I doubt even the absolute elimination of guns would save many lives. In fact, some would be lost due to it. Even so, I'd not be shocked if it overall save a few.
But I'm rabidly against the concept of the nanny state. Not even for free health insurance (and I write this as a cancer survivor who had no insurance and not a lot of money, and a lot LESS money now.....)
Truth told I lean towards gun freedom, but if other folks in other countries want to live differently, I can respect them and wish them the best of luck. Perhaps they are even correct. But I prefer my 2nd amendment.
Play nice while you butcher each other.
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