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Vikarion
Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.07 07:37:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Von Kleist Edited by: Von Kleist on 07/09/2008 06:37:39
As a resident of 0.0 from day 2 of the game, the one thing that I always kind of thought was that low sec (-0.1 to -0.4) was more dangerous than 0.0. I think most people can agree with this observation, and there was one thought I had in that regard. Make low sec more valuable than either. Put the best ores, and the best rats, etc. there. Its kind of the dead mans land between the protected borders of established 0.0, that they raid for entertainment, the home of most pirates who fill a role in this universe, and the 'brave' stomping grounds of wanna be pvp'ers who really dont know what the hell theyre doing.
Make it worthwhile for the area to be used. Give some incentive to both sides of the empire border to actually populate the area, and there could be some pretty damn good battles to fight AND some worthwhile money to be made. Dunno, just a thought.
edit: some spelling
It's a good thought. And a good idea. But you're a goon - you aren't allowed to have those. Bad bee.
Seriously, though, CCP should either do that, or work to create a specific resource found only in low-sec, but needed everywhere in large quantities. Maybe a new mineral required for all ship construction. Revamp something. --------
EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG*
*Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
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viuva
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Posted - 2008.09.07 08:03:00 -
[182]
Being pirate now in low sec is just....... what can you do ? be red and be attacked by all ? for what ? what can you win ? BAHHH
I agree Make it a worth area to be used. Let it be border where really BAD pirates can do really damage to greater alliances.
Capital ships ... jump freighters , jump bridges....... Are just sad to exist in my lovely game
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Vikarion
Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.07 20:07:00 -
[183]
Originally by: viuva Being pirate now in low sec is just....... what can you do ? be red and be attacked by all ? for what ? what can you win ? BAHHH
I agree Make it a worth area to be used. Let it be border where really BAD pirates can do really damage to greater alliances.
Capital ships ... jump freighters , jump bridges....... Are just sad to exist in my lovely game
And it's because low-sec is so low in reward that we end up with the "lame" camping of gates and stations. You can't find anyone anywhere else. --------
EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG*
*Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.08 03:13:00 -
[184]
Originally by: VeroneaTT
Gosh your right, I might as well give up making eve product, sell all my haulers and freighters, stop all production/trade..
And here *suprise* is the motive of the alt troll.
His main was suicide ganked and it still smarts.
PEW PEW
SKUNK
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Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors.
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Posted - 2008.09.08 03:16:00 -
[185]
OMG how did I miss this thread?
Vikarion, I agree with you 1000%.
Well said, brother. ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO) |
Soporo
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.08 03:20:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Soporo on 08/09/2008 03:23:25
Quote: And it's because low-sec is so low in reward that we end up with the "lame" camping of gates and stations. You can't find anyone anywhere else.
Pro tip: Lots of people arent in belts ratting or mining NOT because the rats or roids suck. It's because of the idiotic risk/isk/hour caused by safeing/docking/cloaking constantly. In other words, because it's so freekin dangerous in any static endeavor (read PVE) for Joe Average. You could give Lo 0.0 roids and rats and nothing much will change untill you also get 0.0-like security.
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VeroneaTT
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.09.08 03:42:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: VeroneaTT
Gosh your right, I might as well give up making eve product, sell all my haulers and freighters, stop all production/trade..
And here *suprise* is the motive of the alt troll.
His main was suicide ganked and it still smarts.
PEW PEW
SKUNK
Motive?
Since when does motive come into play to troll you angry little guys?
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VeroneaTT
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.09.08 03:43:00 -
[188]
No, you are just free lols!
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Vikarion
Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.08 03:46:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Soporo Edited by: Soporo on 08/09/2008 03:23:25
Quote: And it's because low-sec is so low in reward that we end up with the "lame" camping of gates and stations. You can't find anyone anywhere else.
Pro tip: Lots of people arent in belts ratting or mining NOT because the rats or roids suck. It's because of the idiotic risk/isk/hour caused by safeing/docking/cloaking constantly. In other words, because it's so freekin dangerous in any static endeavor (read PVE) for Joe Average. You could give Lo 0.0 roids and rats and nothing much will change untill you also get 0.0-like security.
Actually, there are a lot of low-sec systems where you won't see anyone for hours, even days. Sure, sitting in Rancer or Amamake and trying to rat is teh dumbness, but the reason there are almost no people in ALL of low-sec isn't just over-ganking. --------
EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG*
*Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
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Synapse Archae
Amarr Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.09.08 04:00:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Mankirks Wife I joined right at the start of Rev. II, and all I have to say from my own experience is that nobody whines louder, harder, or more eloquently than empire PvPers.
I humbly suggest that by definition a whine cannot be eloquent or well thought out, and so this post and many others fail your classification, by definition.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Kransthow
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.09.08 05:01:00 -
[191]
hahahahahahahaha oh god, good thing I don't live in empire
One can hope that ccp by some miracle get their collective heads out of their collective ********s
feel sorry for ya bro
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Vikarion
Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.08 05:10:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Kransthow hahahahahahahaha oh god, good thing I don't live in empire
One can hope that ccp by some miracle get their collective heads out of their collective ********s
feel sorry for ya bro
I don't either, mostly. But it really bugs me how Empire is screwing up everything else, and CCP works to make it worse, not better. --------
EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG*
*Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.08 05:57:00 -
[193]
Originally by: VeroneaTT
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: VeroneaTT
Gosh your right, I might as well give up making eve product, sell all my haulers and freighters, stop all production/trade..
And here *suprise* is the motive of the alt troll.
His main was suicide ganked and it still smarts.
PEW PEW
SKUNK
Motive?
Since when does motive come into play to troll you angry little guys?
Since you draged your tender bleeding tuckus to the forums.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Lara Dantreb
New Horizons
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Posted - 2008.09.08 06:54:00 -
[194]
Edited by: Lara Dantreb on 08/09/2008 06:54:59
Originally by: Vikarion A Pvp'ers Manifesto
Do you sincerely consider hisec suicide ganking as Pvp ? Wow, you must be great great Pvp'er then...
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VeroneaTT
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.09.08 07:13:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: VeroneaTT
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: VeroneaTT
Gosh your right, I might as well give up making eve product, sell all my haulers and freighters, stop all production/trade..
And here *suprise* is the motive of the alt troll.
His main was suicide ganked and it still smarts.
PEW PEW
SKUNK
Motive?
Since when does motive come into play to troll you angry little guys?
Since you draged your tender bleeding tuckus to the forums.
Dr. Malcanis is now a certified "tuckus" examiner as well as a psychoanalyst?
Still no isk from me...go beg in local!
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.08 10:09:00 -
[196]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 08/09/2008 10:09:41
Originally by: VeroneaTT
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: VeroneaTT
Gosh your right, I might as well give up making eve product, sell all my haulers and freighters, stop all production/trade..
And here *suprise* is the motive of the alt troll.
His main was suicide ganked and it still smarts.
PEW PEW
SKUNK
Motive?
Since when does motive come into play to troll you angry little guys?
Note no denial :)
Its just another troll alt created to try to get some "revenge" on some faceless ganker who punished him for going AFK with stupid money in his cargo hold. Impotent in game (du to self imposed fear of the dreaded PVP) and tight fisted refusal to hire mercs, this person rolls and alt to try to make himself feel better by whining on the forums.
Yawns.
SKUNK
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.08 10:24:00 -
[197]
Originally by: AOSBrendans Mom
Quote: 1. Privateer Nerf - Complained about by 0.0 pvpers who empire operations where hampered
Okay, lets face facts here.
This is clearly an exploit of game mechanics.
The privateers alliance were exploiting the war-dec system to engage
CCP saw this as an exploit that unbalanced the game,
Whilst I dread to rehash the old argument, I cant let the "Facts" lie come out AGAIN. As discussed many time during the Alliance P saga:
1) The Privateers Never Exploited 2) The Privateers Were Never Accused Of Exploiting By CCP at any point 3) The leadership were only contacted by CCP representatives once, in regard to an interview with the CEO (surrpetitious) which you would have seen on the log in page, and an also about a possible ISD storyline they wanted the alliance involved in.
No warnings, No cheats, No exploits. Just a lot of fun.
Capitulation: yes. Balance: possibly. Exploit: most definatly not.
SKUNK
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.08 10:32:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Lara Dantreb Edited by: Lara Dantreb on 08/09/2008 06:54:59
Originally by: Vikarion A Pvp'ers Manifesto
Do you sincerely consider hisec suicide ganking as Pvp ? Wow, you must be great great Pvp'er then...
It's at least as challenging as running hi-sec L4s in a faction/officer fit CNR.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.08 10:56:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Soporo
You could give Lo 0.0 roids and rats and nothing much will change untill you also get 0.0-like security.
I highly doubt that considering lowsec was never worth as much as 0.0 but yet people still were attracted to the higher potential over hisec at one time. Maybe you wouldn't act much different, but that doesn't mean other people wouldn't.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Neamus
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Posted - 2008.09.08 11:11:00 -
[200]
Bravo OP! /signed
Let Eve remain a harsh place to live, keep the danger, even in highsec.
One of the great things about this game is that you are never completely safe, even in highsec space safety is just an illusion. It would be tragic if danger were to become the illusion.
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flakeys
Omerta Squadron
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Posted - 2008.09.08 11:21:00 -
[201]
Edited by: flakeys on 08/09/2008 11:25:08
Originally by: Kil'Roy
Originally by: Mankirks Wife I joined right at the start of Rev. II, and all I have to say from my own experience is that nobody whines louder, harder, or more eloquently than empire PvPers.
Didn't you mean HiSec Gankers, Cut throats who can't hack it, or Professional can flippers? You know, the ones who can't shoot at anything that shoots back with anything more than a spit ball. ...And claim Eve is dead every other thread? Ya, those guys.
I agree 100% with the poster above me.High sec suiciding/can-flipping etc allthough maybe fun for some has nothing NOTHING to do with pvp in my book. Allthough i will not say in my pirate carreer atm i will never do any of these the fact remains it's for people who want to be 'safe-carebear-pvpers' themselves.They are nothing more then the carebears they themselves claim to be hiding behind a so called safety in empire. I LOVE the irony in every post empire gankers and such make about carebears while themselves being too scared to loose a REALL ship in pvp be it in low-sec or 0.0 .You want pvp go to low-sec or 0.0 you will find enough people there who will gladly be a non-carebear since you are SO looking for these kind of people it seems.
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Burn Mac
Minmatar Burning Steel Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.08 11:49:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Zeknichov Edited by: Zeknichov on 04/09/2008 08:18:26 Edited by: Zeknichov on 04/09/2008 08:16:04 Pirating died in EVE over 3 years ago, CCP has never catered to pirates and never will. Either join a 0.0 alliance and fight for sovereignty of territory or don't even bother with PvP IMO. If you still persist to pirate then find a new niche, it will eventually be patched up if the carebears cry loud enough, it ALWAYS is, but until it is you can have fun reaping the benefits.
While I agree mostly with your sentiments, CCP does not and never have. They are not trying to be like WoW they are trying to cater to the same goals they chose to cater to when they made changes enough to drive m0o corp from EVE.
Empire = n00by safezone. CCP is realizing that a lot of new people are being dissuaded from EVE because they are dying in Empire and don't even know why. The game is too complex for the average new player to grasp and the average pirate takes advantage of this. CPP wants n00bies to stay in EVE so they are essentially making Empire the newbie "training" area.
Low-sec = This is where CCP wants pirating to be located.
0.0 = The is the game EVE. This is truly the only area of EVE that matters. If EVE ever lost 0.0 no one but a handful would play the game.
The problem with EVE is quite simple and best explained using WoW as a comparison. In WoW after you hit level 20 you're pretty much forced to leave the newbie areas if you want to get stronger. In EVE however there are no levels but if there were you could attain lvl 70 without ever leaving Empire. People only need to leave Empire if they wish to seek PvP.
The solution in my eyes needs to go somewhere along these lines
- Change all loot from hi-sec missions and rats to only drops items that when reprocessed give 0 low-sec and null-sec ore.
- Remove jump freighters from the game or tweak them to be empire only or 0.0 only. Jump freighters should not be allowed in low-sec. If someone wants to bring low-sec/null-sec ore into 0.0 they must fly a freighter from low-sec/null-sec into empire putting it at risk of destruction.
- Nerf all forms of mineral compression
Force people out of empire and give pirates a new good of killing people attempting to transport ore from 0.0/low-sec to hi-sec market hubs.
Listen to this man he knows how to fix EVE
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.08 12:08:00 -
[203]
Originally by: flakeys Edited by: flakeys on 08/09/2008 11:25:08
Originally by: Kil'Roy
Originally by: Mankirks Wife I joined right at the start of Rev. II, and all I have to say from my own experience is that nobody whines louder, harder, or more eloquently than empire PvPers.
Didn't you mean HiSec Gankers, Cut throats who can't hack it, or Professional can flippers? You know, the ones who can't shoot at anything that shoots back with anything more than a spit ball. ...And claim Eve is dead every other thread? Ya, those guys.
I agree 100% with the poster above me.High sec suiciding/can-flipping etc allthough maybe fun for some has nothing NOTHING to do with pvp in my book. Allthough i will not say in my pirate carreer atm i will never do any of these the fact remains it's for people who want to be 'safe-carebear-pvpers' themselves.They are nothing more then the carebears they themselves claim to be hiding behind a so called safety in empire. I LOVE the irony in every post empire gankers and such make about carebears while themselves being too scared to loose a REALL ship in pvp be it in low-sec or 0.0 .You want pvp go to low-sec or 0.0 you will find enough people there who will gladly be a non-carebear since you are SO looking for these kind of people it seems.
Say you're a miner in a hi-sec mining corp and a bunch of NPC-corp miners move into the hi-sec area where you operate. These guys are on 23/7 and locust-strip virtually every rock before you can get it it.
What do you think your options should be? (Don't say "petition them" - that takes months to take effect if it ever does).
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2008.09.08 22:51:00 -
[204]
I wouldn't write Eve off anytime soon. I think CCP makes some good changes now and then but I think they fail to help people see the big picture.
It's times like this where they make 3 or 4 seemingly lopsided changes in a row that make people question where the game is heading.
Believe it or not, I agree they had to nerf the Lofty scam. Well either nerf it or "fix" it so it works properly. I think the easier fix was for them to just nerf it. I mean it's really not fair when you invite someone with a non-war-dec'd alt then have that same alt invite someone with a war dec, that person would have no clue they're about to die.
If they could get it to where there was a gang warning that a war-dec'd person was joining and all gang members had to click ok, then that would be fine.
I can understand why they changed the war dec mechanics with Privateers. Not because they were griefing people but because they probably never expected someone to amass that much ISK to fund wars.
I can understand why they're nerfing the insta-join and insta-quit corp tactic as well.
I can understand why they made changes to NOS and to nano ships.
I can even understand the changes to suicide ganking.
In all of these sitations, it will all come out in the wash. People will adapt and life will go on.
My concern is, that the changes are not so much that CCP "catering to carebears" but that CCP's changes are sometimes creating dead ends instead of creating new paths to go down.
Personally I am not a fan of 0.0. My corp is way to small and casual to maintain a viable presence there. I have no desire to sit in an alliance. I have no desire to deal with politics.
Low sec holds no appeal to me either. I hate grinding sec status, gate camps bore me, and I have no desire to deal with NAPs or anything of the sort.
I like empire wars. The cat and mouse are great. You are always near stations, markets, and all that sort of stuff. It's an excellent way to get your PvP for my play style and play times.
I suspect at some point CCP will do something with empire warfare and war decs as a whole. Until them I will keep playing and doing my best to have fun.
It does seem strange that they're starting to classify certain tactics as exploits but others are completely fine though there is little difference between the two. It just happens that the non-agressor types are benefitting from it right now.
All I am asking for is to have some options in Empire. I've done 0.0 for years, I did the -10 flashy thing and I've done the grind missions for months on end thing. I even tried some mining on my alts. I have never done research and industry. I enjoy Empire wars. I have every right to have options just as everyone else in Empire, low sec and null sec.
Just as people say it's not fair to force Empire "carebears" into pvp, it's not fair to force anyone into any particular style of play.
Again, in the long run, I think CCP will keep the game moving forward. The best thing to do is just post your opinions, give examples of your line of thinking and the logic behind it. CCP does not know it all and our feedback is an important part of the process. At least I hope it is.
Steady the course and lets see where CCP takes us in the months to come.
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VeroneaTT
Amarr Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.09.09 02:01:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 08/09/2008 10:09:41
Originally by: VeroneaTT
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: VeroneaTT
Gosh your right, I might as well give up making eve product, sell all my haulers and freighters, stop all production/trade..
And here *suprise* is the motive of the alt troll.
His main was suicide ganked and it still smarts.
PEW PEW
SKUNK
Motive?
Since when does motive come into play to troll you angry little guys?
Note no denial :)
Its just another troll alt created to try to get some "revenge" on some faceless ganker who punished him for going AFK with stupid money in his cargo hold. Impotent in game (du to self imposed fear of the dreaded PVP) and tight fisted refusal to hire mercs, this person rolls and alt to try to make himself feel better by whining on the forums.
Yawns.
SKUNK
hehe...Yawns...then posts again
Seriously, one post made sense in this crapola topic...that is right above me oddly enough. Nexa, one of the higher tier empire griefers of all people, speaking with the reason you other turds should be emulating. I think a new griefer leader has been chosen!
Nexa should lead the lamers out of mediocrity...at least in posting.
Well said!
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.09.09 07:56:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 09/09/2008 07:56:27
Originally by: VeroneaTT
So how much did you lose, and how did you feel after getting blown up? A bit sick? Did you hate yourself for going afk?
SKUNK
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Vikarion
Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.09 21:29:00 -
[207]
No, he just felt angry that CCP let anyone take advantage of his stupidity.
You have the right to be stupid in this game. I also think that we should have the right to punish you for being stupid.
BTW, thanks, Nexa, for posting in a thread of mine...but if I were you, I'd be a little more concerned over CCP's statements about "pay to grief system" in regards to war-decs. That's not a good thing. --------
EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG*
*Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
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Nexa Necis
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2008.09.09 22:46:00 -
[208]
I agree, CCP should clarify those statements. I am sure there are people who grief without purpose. TRAPS does this, sort of, but we give our victims "outs". Meaning they can pay a surrender fee or negotiate a surrender in other ways.
I wonder if CCP has a full understanding about the whole Empire war situation. Do they have any representatives that play the game in that vein? I am guessing all they hear are probably the tons of petitons that people are being griefed for no reason. Of course those people are leaving out the reasons behind the war. Half the time they don't even ask a reason, they just assume they're being griefed for being "weak miner" types, nevermind the fact their players are busy calling people f*ggots and n*ggers in local at any given time.
For example one of the current corps we dec'd had a guy smacking my corpmate bring up his sister and stuff like that in local, so naturally a war dec went out. Some people say, "Man it's a video game who cares what some idiot says about you!?". I don't care in the least. However, Eve is a game that has consequences for your actions that are able to be forced upon you by the other players in the Eve universe. Revenge can be a career in Eve if you so desire.
I've read those threads where ideas are tossed out about solving the war dec issues. Most of the ideas revolve around stats that are easily manipulated by the players themselves like the number of people in the corp/alliance or average age of players. The other ideas are too complex and would require constant live attention which isn't going to work either.
I agree with Skunk's posts that there are so many ways right now to avoid war, if you're going to give people more outs, then give us a fair chance to fight.
If you're going to say using the corp join/quit mechanic is an exploit to score kills, it should be equally exploitive if you're using it to avoid dying. Again, this only deals with the people jumping to avoid war constantly, not the people who legitimately quit a corp and move to a new, genuine corp.
I think the main problem is right now, besides the obvious loopholes in tactics and mechanics is the fact that CCP is putting out blips and blurbs that would affect a lot of players without giving any details or rationalization behind the comments, leading to an abundance of "Eve is going into the shitter!" type threads.
I understand all of the recent changes, but that doesn't mean I agree with them. It sounds like suiciding is going to be a thing of the past which is sort of a bummer. I wish they would've left Concord as is, and removed insurance payouts. That way, you remove the griefing for the sake of griefing type of kills, and you still leave room for the "That damn Hulk pilot who called me a n*gger f*cking a*slicker is in an NPC corp. I can suicide him but it will cost me 100mil." Then I am running just as much of a risk as the Hulk pilot because I am losing sec status, and 70mil on most suicide battleships.
I no longer have that option from what I've been reading about the new and improved Concord. I could be wrong because I haven't tried to run a suicide gank since the patch.
Again, the comments made by CCP reps are a bit disoncerting, but I think they ultimately realize that they have to cater to all playstyles and keep things balanced. Then again CCP reps have made a lot of comments that have never come to fruition I am sure.
So I will save my feedback until I see some comments that are of a more definitive nature. The rep who said that decs are a pay to grief system might believe that but the other 20 people in that round table discussion might educate them on the big picture I hope. :)
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Vikarion
Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.09 23:05:00 -
[209]
Nexa, I don't know if you saw this, but I will re-quote what CCP Greyscale said in response to Le Skunk noting the comment about wardecs being "pay-to-grief":
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Hi.
Caveat: the entry you're quoting is, AFAIK, the CSM secretary's summary of the discussion, and is not a direct quote. (If it was, you'd likely see quotation marks around it.) I don't remember whether I actually used the word "grief" or not during the discussions.
That said, I meant what I said then and I stand by it now. Hisec has existed as part of the game since the beginning. It has a specific purpose: to provide a geographic area which is comparatively safer than other areas of the game, to the extent that all other things being equal and in contrast with other areas, it's reasonable to expect that you won't be attacked by other players. That's a good and indeed highly desirable reason for a feature to exist in almost any MMO.
War decs also serve a purpose, and create a specific scenario where all other things are not equal. From my point of view their gameplay purpose is to allow player corporations to target specific other player corporations who would otherwise be invulnerable in order to achieve specific strategic goals that couldn't be otherwise achieved. That's also a very good reason for a feature to exist in my opinion.
As currently implemented, war decs also allow any arbitrary player corp to attack any member of any other arbitrary player corp within secure space with minimal warning and for basically any possible reason one cares to imagine, including "no reason at all" and "I just wanted to ruin other players' day". This is not, in my opinion, a good reason for a feature to exist - indeed, all other things being equal (there's that phrase again!) it's a good reason for a feature not to exist, and the fact that the wardec system does exist and that what's being discussed is a modification to remove just the undesirable side-effects and to try and avoid making substantive changes to the feature in the meantime I think speaks volumes about how serious we are about enabling the type of gameplay permitted by the wardec system as used according to its above-described purpose.
All that said though, the ability to easily create conditions where a player corp can arbitrarily bypass the penalties for non-consensual combat in highsec space is unjustifiable as a design goal, and indeed flatly contradicts core design elements (the existance of highsec space) for no good reason. This applies doubly so while the mechanics necessarily compel players to leave social structures (corporations) in order to avoid becoming victim to such mechanics. If it can cleanly be removed, it should be. Allowing a player corp full of hardened combat veterans to pay a relatively small amount of money and be able to freely and without penalty attack a small group of players with whom they have absolutely no past relationship and who represent neither any kind of threat nor any kind of challenge and whose death will generate no rewards is absolutely a pay-to-grief system - indeed, it's a definitive example - and I don't see how it has any place in this game. And no, the phrase "cold uncaring universe" is not shorthand for "griefer's paradise", as the latter would contain far too many elements of pure farce to qualify as the kind of serious setting that I believe was the original intent behind the phrase.
tl;dr I have no intention of apologizing for the things I have said on this issue - I stand by them completely, and I fully support Hammer's position on the subject as well, both because I believe the position they represent is fully justified and because to support the contrary opinion (that it's OK for people to grief if they feel like it provided they jump through one small hoop first) would IMO lead the game down a path which would kill it stone dead, and I have no intention of letting that happen if I can possibly prevent it.
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EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG*
*Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
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Vikarion
Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.09 23:10:00 -
[210]
To me, the above entry is a very long way of saying: "we've decided we don't care whether Empire is balanced or not, or whether you want to pop someone for saying something stupid - we only want the big PvP alliances pew-pewing in Empire, and the rest of you can STFU and GTFO." Or something similar to that.
Of course, I could be wrong. Sure doesn't look like it, though.
One of the reasons I should not go to Fanfest is because I think I'd end up yelling at the devs, (after a few beers) and that would be neither polite nor productive. It is, after all, just a game. --------
EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG*
*Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
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