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Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
183
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Posted - 2012.03.26 08:33:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'd prefer a Dust based ISK sink with a real possibility of a return on it. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
57
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Posted - 2012.03.26 08:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ashley SchmidtVonGoldberg wrote:Nerf all faucets im not interested in or cannot control
I think that sums up everything that everyone has posted so far
I'll bet you think Mittens wants to nerf supercaps because he's afraid of them. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
57
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Posted - 2012.03.26 08:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
Skydell wrote:I'd prefer a Dust based ISK sink with a real possibility of a return on it.
I'm actually hoping that all of the ISK in DUST-514 comes from EVE. That way, their individual worth will be dependent upon how many of them there are compared to how many of us there are. If there are a hundred of them to every one of us, then they should feel that a hundredth of what one of us is willing to pay for services is a nice paycheck. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Malande
Terra Incorporation Active Endeavors
3
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
TBH you have two real choices, nerf bounties or increase taxes (or a mix of both)
And lets face it of those to.... its bounties that are going to be the ones that get the biggest axe (which should be fairly obvious to anyone who saw the economy presentation). http://ineptcontent.co.uk |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
a straight up 20% reduction in all payouts, missions, incursions, bounties, could even reduce minerals in ores by 20% too, fuckit screw everyone at the same time CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
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Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
57
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Malande wrote:TBH you have two real choices, nerf bounties or increase taxes (or a mix of both) You don't think that creating more isk sinks, or boosting the current isk sinks are either viable solutions?
I think there are many possible ways to handle this well, plenty of which we likely won't even think of. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
436
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:a straight up 20% reduction in all payouts, missions, incursions, bounties, could even reduce minerals in ores by 20% too, fuckit screw everyone at the same time
So leave all the same problems in place, just reduce the overall numbers by 20% ... Let's just shift the decimal place over one digit to the left, that'll fix it five times as fast, right? |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:a straight up 20% reduction in all payouts, missions, incursions, bounties, could even reduce minerals in ores by 20% too, fuckit screw everyone at the same time So leave all the same problems in place, just reduce the overall numbers by 20% ... Let's just shift the decimal place over one digit to the left, that'll fix it five times as fast, right?
its better than picking just 1 thing to reduce imo. i forgot, add 20% to all transaction taxes and npc costs in station. take more isk out while pumping less in.
plus side the rich stay rich, bad side poor are gonna be poorer. oh well CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
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Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
57
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:plus side the rich stay rich, bad side poor are gonna be poorer. oh well And here I was starting to think you didn't know how bad your idea was. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5772
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Why prefer any one of them? Reduction in bounties. Incursions skewed more towards LP Blue loot made useful in industry. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
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Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:29:00 -
[41] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:plus side the rich stay rich, bad side poor are gonna be poorer. oh well And here I was starting to think you didn't know how bad your idea was.
been playing since 05, things have never been so easy. too much reward not enough risk.
there will always be ways for poor people to get rich in eve, but it shouldnt be so easy to make 1bil+ a day. everything that has been added in the last few years has devalued isk to the point where dropping a few bil is nothing to most, it should matter.
reduce everything by at least 20% and increase all tax's and sinks by the same. work harder to make that 1bil isk. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
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Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
58
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:*armchair economising*
Tell me something I don't know. You do realise that the problem isn't how easy it is to get the billion isk, but actually that the EVE economy is in a state of rapid inflation, right? The problem is that as ISK goes into the economy faster than it goes out, players will forever get richer and richer. Not only will that billion isk become easier and easier to obtain through trades, it'll become worth less and less, marginalizing all of the forms of ISK income from NPC sources, except for players with the best equipment and SP. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
437
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:42:00 -
[43] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:its better than picking just 1 thing to reduce imo. i forgot, add 20% to all transaction taxes and npc costs in station. take more isk out while pumping less in.
plus side the rich stay rich, bad side poor are gonna be poorer. oh well
It is not as simple as that though, it is not about picking one thing. It is about picking the right combination of things and encouraging where player's spend their time by price signals, not just simply lowering numbers arbitrarily. It may good for a laugh when your stoned, as your name implies, but it doesn't work.
And most of the rich in Eve do not need much help becoming even more rich on whatever changes CCP comes up with. They're rich for a reason, no one needs to worry about them. Tax them too much and they will create their own black market and you will be paying their taxes. |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
The problem is that as ISK goes into the economy faster than it goes out, players will forever get richer and richer.
so if isk enters slower and leaves faster your ok with it? increase taxes and reduce payouts awesom CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
296
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Posted - 2012.03.26 09:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Man, it pains me to say this, but if EVE players ran the real life economy, we'd be in even worse shape than we already are.
Nerfing ISK faucets because of some misguided drive to decrease the amount of ISK in the game would be quite an uninformed decision. Most of the faucet ISK is concentrated in the hands of a relatively small amount of people. In turn, that money is absorbed into the high-end faction, deadspace, and officer gear market.
Mineral prices are mostly affected by drop changes (see: recent module size nerfs, drone region nerfs), and bot bans. As such, the prices of minerals, and by extent all T1 goods, have remained relatively stable throughout the years. I know there's been a panic going on for the past few weeks; this sometimes happens. Still, I could buy a Brutix for the same price last January that I could in 2005. For comparison, a 2005 Vigilant cost about 9 million ISK.
What is needed isn't a flat-out nerf to ISK faucets, but a balance of the ISK faucet against other faucets, and a balance of the risk/reward system between high, low, and null sec space.
We certainly don't need the removal of all ISK generation mechanisms, as some people propose. If that were to happen, EVE would regress into a barter economy within months. |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
410
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Posted - 2012.03.26 10:00:00 -
[46] - Quote
Nerf bounties across the board, except for lvl1+2 mission bounties which should be slightly raised, noobs have a fairly hard time as it is. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
58
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Posted - 2012.03.26 10:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:so if isk enters slower and leaves faster your ok with it? There's more to it than that. The solution should fix the problem without creating new ones. If you disagree, go play ANY other MMO, where they make a habit of creating at least two problems every time they fix one. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Zowie Powers
Hole in the wall
57
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Posted - 2012.03.26 10:07:00 -
[48] - Quote
Soundwave just looked at the raw numbers.
NPC bounty bigger than incursion bounty globally, therefore NPC bounty = bad.
Sadly he didn't divide each by the number of participants, and then ratio it off against time invested in the activity. Fortunately CCP isn't made up of one single mathematically deficient individual.
It's made up of dozens of them. |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
401
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Posted - 2012.03.26 10:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
game needs more isk sinks tbh. how many sinks are there vs faucets? [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
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Posted - 2012.03.26 10:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:so if isk enters slower and leaves faster your ok with it? There's more to it than that. The solution should fix the problem without creating new ones. If you disagree, go play ANY other MMO, where they make a habit of creating at least two problems every time they fix one.
never played anyother MMO, so i can only talk about what ive seen in eve. and over the last few years its got way way to easy to make isk.
everything thats been added (q20 lv4 agents, incursions, anoms) in the last few years has dramaticly increased the isk avalible to players. and they have rightly milked every cent they could from them, but that volume has to be reduced. while im an advoacte for reducing raw isk payouts, that should be combined with larger lp payouts. could even add lp payouts to anoms for an added sink.
add larger tax sinks and balance in a few months if needed. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
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Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
58
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Posted - 2012.03.26 10:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Smoking Blunts wrote:and over the last few years its got way way to easy to make isk. I disagree. While I can agree that certain forms of ISK income are too easy in comparison to others, I think that a healthy increase in ISK generation should accompany any newer, better, and badder struggles against NPCs (high class sleeper anomalies, incursions). The problem isn't that the isk is to easy to get, it's that there's nothing to spend it on. You need bigger and badder ships to run those newer sites anyway, sometimes stuff that wasn't even available a few years ago. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Smoking Blunts
ZC Industries Dark Stripes
216
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Posted - 2012.03.26 10:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Smoking Blunts wrote:and over the last few years its got way way to easy to make isk. I disagree. While I can agree that certain forms of ISK income are too easy in comparison to others, I think that a healthy increase in ISK generation should accompany any newer, better, and badder struggles against NPCs (high class sleeper anomalies, incursions). The problem isn't that the isk is to easy to get, it's that there's nothing to spend it on. You need bigger and badder ships to run those newer sites anyway, sometimes stuff that wasn't even available a few years ago.
incursions and sleepers are not hard anymore, yet pump billions out daily(npc buy orders of sleeper poo being the faucet) only thing that wasnt avalible back then were t3's . not having stuff to spend isk on is not a reason to keep a faucet in place
incursions should be swapped to lp only imo. ive ran incursions and i know fully what you can make and its far to much. anoms could do with lp payouts and a reduction in isk also, mind on a per system base they pay out way less than incursions, you cant get 40-80 people in 1 0.0 system making 80-100m/h, with anoms anymore than 6 in a system screws your isk/h. CCP-áare full of words and no action. We will watch what they are doing, for now
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Shadowsword
The Scope Gallente Federation
116
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Posted - 2012.03.26 10:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Invent some new useful consumables (implants? drugs? fueled enhanced armor/shield hardeners?), change incursion payouts from isks to materials needed to manufacture those cunsomables. Inflation problem solved. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
202
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Posted - 2012.03.26 14:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
so everybody is ok with lower bounties...?
and more isk sinks as well? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5774
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Posted - 2012.03.26 15:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:game needs more isk sinks tbh. how many sinks are there vs faucets? Faucets:- NPC bounties
- NPC buy orders
- Agent rewards: Mission rewards, Mission time bonuses, Incursion rewards
- Insurance payout
- GM actions: Reimbursement for lost pods
- Character creation
Sinks:- Market taxes & fees: Broker fees, Sales tax
- NPC sell orders
- NPC station services: Repairs, Jump clone installation, Medical clone installation/upgrade/station change, Science and industry slot rental, Ship insurance
- NPC station office fees: Rent, Impound penalties
- Wardecs
- Sovereignty fees
- PI fees: Building PI structures, Import/export tax (from NPC-owned customs offices)
- Corp & alliance fees: Corp creation, Alliance creation, Alliance upkeep, Creating/awarding medals, Corp registry ads
- Agent fees: (Certain) LP store items, Locator agent services, Courier missions w/ deposits
- CSPA Charges
- Smuggling fines
- GM Actions: Removal of bought ISK, Removal of insurance after ship reimbursement
- Character deletion
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Skex Relbore
Space Exploitation Inc
147
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Posted - 2012.03.26 15:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:Let the drone drop change and prices run thier course and see where things land. If mining becomes more valuable than shooting rats, the monetary expansion will slow down.
^^ the only good comment in this thread^^
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Reaver Glitterstim
Resurrected Darkness
60
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Posted - 2012.03.26 16:51:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Grimpak wrote:game needs more isk sinks tbh. how many sinks are there vs faucets? *list of sinks and faucets* That's a pretty good list, and if you ponder a moment and think about how big each of these is, it really puts it into perspective. Well that pretty much explains the ISK flood.
Here, let me explain. When you make a list of the approximate value each faucet and sink has on an average pilot, you see that the problem isn't runaway isk faucets, it's a general lack of isk sinks. Here's approximately what each has been worth to me over the course of my entire career in EVE:
Faucets: NPC bounties - 1,000,000,000 - 1,500,000,000 NPC buy orders - 5,000,000 - 20,000,000 Agent rewards: Mission rewards, Mission time bonuses, Incursion rewards - 150,000,000 - 250,000,000 Insurance payout - ~100,000,000 GM actions: Reimbursement for lost pods - none (I've only been reimbursed in goods, never ISK) Character creation - ~600,000
Sinks: Market taxes & fees: Broker fees, Sales tax - 15,000,000 - 25,000,000 NPC sell orders - ~400,000,000 (mostly skillbooks) NPC station services: Repairs, Jump clone installation, Medical clone installation/upgrade/station change, Science and industry slot rental, Ship insurance - 50,000,000 - 100,000,000 NPC station office fees: Rent, Impound penalties - none (I don't keep my goods in offices so I don't know what that's like) Wardecs - 10,000,000 Sovereignty fees - ~25,000,000 PI fees: Building PI structures, Import/export tax (from NPC-owned customs offices) - 20,000,000 - 30,000,000 Corp & alliance fees: Corp creation, Alliance creation, Alliance upkeep, Creating/awarding medals, Corp registry ads - 25,000,000 - 50,000,000 Agent fees: (Certain) LP store items, Locator agent services, Courier missions w/ deposits - ~15,000,000 CSPA Charges - 750,000 - 1,500,000 Smuggling fines - ~100,000 GM Actions: Removal of bought ISK, Removal of insurance after ship reimbursement - ~10,000,000 (a Prophecy) Character deletion - ~25,000
If you make that into a chart of faucets vs. sinks, it'll look something like this: Faucets: |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Sinks: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Now take into consideration that I've never run incursions or high-class sleeper sites, or even very many nullsec anomalies for that matter. Once I get into that in the next year or so, my graph will probably look like this: Faucets: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Sinks: ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
There now I made it visual, thanks in part to Tippia.
Skex Relbore wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:Let the drone drop change and prices run thier course and see where things land. If mining becomes more valuable than shooting rats, the monetary expansion will slow down. ^^ the only good comment in this thread^^ That's why we don't take you seriously, my friend. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
561
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Posted - 2012.03.26 22:02:00 -
[58] - Quote
Change the incursion site completion to "destroy all ships" instead of "hit all the triggers"
Change rat rewards from ISK AND sec status gain to ISK OR sec status gain. You choose which you want. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1223
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Posted - 2012.03.26 22:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
Remove Insurance entirely. Switch incursions to LP payouts only. morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1180
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Posted - 2012.03.26 22:09:00 -
[60] - Quote
Isk faucet fixes, in order of priority:
- More isk sinks. I don't care what, just more ways for isk to be removed from the system.
- Make missions more dynamic so they are harder for bots to complete. Even slowing them down would do quite a bit.
- Reduce bounties across the board. This is especially crucial if drones go to bounties.
- Make incursion vanguard farming unprofitable over time in a way that encourages the destruction of the mothership.
- Possibly reduce the Sleeper loot NPC prices and/or drop rate.
It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
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