Your inability to use proper grammar and punctuation when debating a point makes your argument somewhat tenuous. Also, your use of rhetorical questions should be a capital crime rather than a ban-able offense.

I find especially hilarious the notion that CCP will maintain their ~credibility~ by removing any player representative, who they find inconvenient from a PR or bottom line point of view.

Stopped reading here.

The Mittani/Alex was the one calling for a lynch mob to go after someone to the point of death. Murder by proxies. Being drunk is not an excuse.

He needs to man up and step down from the CSM at minimum. He shouldn't have to discuss anything, he should have already done so.

The scarier thing is the Goons that are basically defending driving someone to their death. Its not about the specific person anymore its about the Goon culture. If they get away with it here there is now a green light to do it again down the road. Goons clamoring to defend this heinous bull is disturbing even for them. Just to defend their cult leader.

We pay CCP to maintain a game and do not expect to get screwed over by the devs with there money grabbing ways or miss direction of Incarna.
People had a right to be mad at Soundwave, he is the dev of the game we all pay for be it in time or money, he is making a profit from us by providing a service, when we did not receive this "We was MAD".
And I'm sure people did get banned over said incident.
Mittens is a player and a CSM member, he did not change the game in a breaking way nor did he try and take our money, he just made a really douche bag move, which to an eve player is possibly acceptable, but explain the story to anyone outside of the "EVE MENTALITY" and see the results.

TL:DR, That is a pretty stupid comparison.

I have to avoid dying in 0.0 and wh's on a daily basis. Your inability to stay alive in High Sec is irrelevant.
He doesn't change Game Mechanics and he certainly does not do anything other than his virtual claim to fame as a single entity (not that it required any sort of skill).
Being able to manipulate the market through ganking miners and haulers are what makes this game so fantastic, why are you miners not forming up a massive alliance with RR mining fleets to protect your self?
Unite and fight miners vs goons gogogogo viva le revolution!!!

So basicly, what your saying, people can say whatever they like, as long as it doesn't actually cause any physical damage? So i could get all my mates to try to get you to hang yourself, and as long as you don't actually do it, thats fine?

What about if we are all calling you the "n" word cause we know you're black? That fine too?

How about we all laugh at the fact someone's got no legs, and encourage them to push themselves in a pool? Oh, thats ok though, he didn't actually do what we suggested, so thats fine too!

What you say has consequences, be it physical or psychological. If he was messaging these things in game, i'd be like, Meh! Thats Mittani, everyone knows he's a ****, just ignore him.

Doing it live on the internet, in person, and trying to get others to follow suit, makes it a whole different ball-game! No surprise at-all its exploded this big. Don't you guys watch politics in the real-world?

And im still amazed that Goons are STILL defending his actions, even when he's admitted he's at fault.

Oh, yeah, i forgot. They already know his apology was a Fake!

By EULA he should get a ban on all his accounts.
If that doesn't happen then CCP just pretty much stated that they suck dicks.
If you wrote a law that you don't follow yet you come with big words on fanfest how ******* much you care to make this game better then you're nothing but a bunch of hypocrites. all your bot wars, plex selling wars mean **** compared to this.
You let a guy publicly harras other person.

So basicly, what your saying, people can say whatever they like, as long as it doesn't actually cause any physical damage? So i could get all my mates to try to get you to hang yourself, and as long as you don't actually do it, thats fine?

What about if we are all calling you the "n" word cause we know you're black? That fine too?

How about we all laugh at the fact someone's got no legs, and encourage them to push themselves in a pool? Oh, thats ok though, he didn't actually do what we suggested, so thats fine too!

What you say has consequences, be it physical or psychological. If he was messaging these things in game, i'd be like, Meh! Thats Mittani, everyone knows he's a ****, just ignore him.

Doing it live on the internet, in person, and trying to get others to follow suit, makes it a whole different ball-game! No surprise at-all its exploded this big. Don't you guys watch politics in the real-world?

And im still amazed that Goons are STILL defending his actions, even when he's admitted he's at fault.

Oh, yeah, i forgot. They already know his apology was a Fake!

In other words
"We are commanding the Mitinni to post a public apology on the forums and then shut up for a few days while we hope this all blows over."

Well CCP has taught me a valuable life lesson.

You'll get Permaband for botting however encouraging a player and inciting others IRL for someone to commit suicide is ok.

Well done CCP, well done. Something I can pass onto my children.

Personal opinion, a fair bit. He still knows more about the game than most anybody else in eve. Still represents one of the largest mobile nullsec alliances around with the most diverse activity. I doubt he will get the VIP access however. He will still forum, mail with CSM and regardless of antics, his opinions still will hold weight.

What the hell happened here man! Are your paragraphs forming together like an amoeba and slowly consuming the quote? I don't even know where to begin!

This comment proves you are not sorry for what you did.

He has more money saved up from his career than you will ever earn in your entire life, pre tax.

This is an example of a terrible post.

I don't think there's a proper sentence in that entire post.

Hello.

I think your brain came loose from your skull.

Please insert brain into skull, and try again.

Banning people from a game for actions they take outside of said game sets a bad precedent. They might start banning people who type bad posts with their foreheads and then where would we be.

You deserve a honest to God refund for your education.

You realize that those 10,000 votes didn't happen by mistake. Those people know exactly who The Mittani is what he stands for and that he's a scammer and a con artist in game?

So, it doesn't matter.

Were you born this stupid or did you have to take a class?

Just putting my two cents in. I watch it in HD stream and When it happen I was like there is a Goon doing some stupid and ignorant. The FANFEST is suppose to be a festival of ALL fans and employess of this great game and company CCP. And for someone to use it as a bully pulpit and to use his AUTHORITY as a large alliance leader and CHAIRMAN OF CSM to help grief a fellow player because he is having a rough time in RL and is having mental stabilty issues is outright disgusting and beyond all belief. Also he claims he is a attorney , well he obviously is not a very good one if one at all.

CCP fire his ass and replace with someone with a little more class and dignity and ban his account 30 days

Funny how the critical spot became non working all the sudden. Aint it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvo08_uYjHI

01.12.00

This is Eve.

I will be VERY disappointed in CCP if they take any actions against Mittens or his accounts.

He has owned up to his behavior.

He has made restitution (unnecessarily) to said victim.

Those people who are still crying about this forget where they are.

This is Eve.

New Eden is not for pussies.

Perhaps the miner should go play Minecraft or Mario Carts or something safe that uses tokens at Chuck E Cheese.

Stay the course Mittani!

If you think that he was in any way serious, you're an complete idiot. Do try to stay somewhere in the realm of reality.

You've been calling for a perma ban when you'd never even seen the clip or knew what he said? Congratulations, you're more of an autistic sperflord than I took you for.

You've been calling for a perma ban when you'd never even seen the clip or knew what he said? Congratulations, you're more of an autistic sperflord than I took you for.

You really should stop posting.

IM 12 AND WAT IS THIS

Really dude, give it a rest.

What do you expect them to do? Turn on him? They are serving their purpose, it's not their problem a heapin' helpin' of clown shoes keep walking right into it and showing that they aren't any better. The real tragedy is that these threads are still going on.


Anyone with any real insight and understanding has pretty much spoke their mind and moved on. I'm just getting the lights and making sure we turned to crockpot off. Watching the goons have a field day with Salem's lot.

I swear, someone gag this idiot.

Rerpoted for harassment.

BAM! Can you taste that ******* irony!?

Wow! Before I had a sense of pride about being an EvE player.

Matanni, you ruined the image of my game in the eyes of the world!

a man goes on the streets and intentionally kills someone else.
another man does the same but is so drugged he can barely walk

which one gets the harder punishment?

Laying it to rest.

This threadnaught has about run it's "useful" course as we have pretty much two polarized sides that must agree to disagree on this topic.

The only real steps to getting us all to move on (IMHO) would be:

1. Mittani to complete his Step 2 (Resign from CSM) heck, he'll be back in next year but, he said the words, and as a man I would expect him to keep to it.
2. CCP to issue some flavor of an "official" statement.

CCP's in a spot.

They really don't need additional negative press, and seeing if this thing will blow over is the logical first step. Then one of three things may happen:

CCP allows the guy to step down quietly - the mob is placated, and the Goons get over it. No dev blog needed - no press release - end of story.

CCP removes him from the CSM and issuing a temporary ban ( probably the most likely outcome ), followed by a simple clear cut statement regarding the rules. The mob is pleased, and the Goons have no leg to stand on.

CCP makes an example of him, forcibly removing him from his seat, and issuing a permanent ban along with a formal statement is another solution - albeit a more polarizing one. The mob is shocked at the severity of it, and the Goons get bent.

honestly Mittenz should step down as chairman but remain in the CSM...

10 k people did vote for him so he should remain but has also lost the privilige of being chairman... Personally this is a good compromise.

We might find out... Not that I think any legal action will (or should) come from it. He screwed up - he should probably be banned, and thats the very extent of it.

so its like, someone commits a crime, the criminal gets to walk because 10000 who likes his "wayward behavior" says he has not done wrong ... (wrong to the tune of suggesting a depressed whining player actually go have his suicide) LOL ! ...

what about the rest of the population who was not in the 10000 ? i am very sure they are not NPC related

Counselling the victim of bullying won't by itself help prevent future bullying.

When s**ts are allowed to happen - they certainly will happen .... and they happen anyway.

Be carefull of wat you wish, that 10k might turn 20k as well.

they wont lose any accounts .. dont be dramatic. goons will laugh on his face and resume trolololing on the forums like any other day.

^^^ This, It was on tape and pre meditated. Mittens intended to harass that player publicly or it would not have been in his presentation that was surely made days earlier. There really is not much to investigate here . CCP is just hoping it will all go away.

So my earlier suggestion. Everyone on the panel, every CCP employee, everyone in the audience who laughed should have action taken against them as well. Can't single out 1 person like that. Everyone is equally culpable. I saw CCP employees laughing, I saw the panel laughing, I saw/heard audience members laughing. Why aren't we going after those hate mongers too? No 1 person is liable for this, all or nothing. Mittens said it, no-one stopped him. Many joined in his mocking laughter. We have to immediately ban half of EVE except the white knights now, otherwise I will not be satisfied!!

Its not like its dificult to a guy come back from a ban... would be back in on the next day.

Every time you post I'm more convinced that you've never actually played Eve, a terrible spaceship game.

Because his name REALLY is the issue. I'm loving the massive attempts at misdirection and thread-hijacking that the Goonswarm is doing. Hey CCP, people keep making new threads you have to then lock and delete, because Goons keep derailing any attempt we make to discuss this. But then again, you've already stated how much you love the GSF, so why would we expect fair and equal treatment for our voice? I'm realizing that apathy might be a better course, since there can be no justice from nepotists. And before you Goons jump on me, I'm not an alt, and yeah I'm in a one man corp, but that's more to do with NPC tax rates and a desire to RP than anything else. Besides, y'all have made PVP not fun unless your flying anything less than a capital.
/flameonGoons

Eve is a world of information provided only by the user. Eve is competitive people will say and do anything to win. This includes lying your way into a corporation. Threatening to calling friends to attack you corp to oblivion because you stole their super cap. For some going to the point saying that his Mother and Wife died to cancer and his daughter is now diagnosed with Lung cancer and is feeling the effects of chemo therapy, and that life is tough in order to gain false sympathy in order to win at a game.

In the Eve Terms of service points #19 States

You may not communicate, post or publicize any subscriberGGVs personal information within the EVE Online game world or website.

This would include a person's own personal information.

So assuming this: whether you say you are a victim of ****, and child abuse, or an alien abductee I will have to assume they are just GG#StoriesGG% to entertain me or an attempt to motivate me to act in a certain way.

Mittani portrays him self as GG#THE VILLAINGG% within the game of eve. As a Villain it is his responsibility to cause misery, and suffering where ever he can. In the name of GG#just for kicksGG%... for example The ice interdiction, strongly supporting hulkaggedon and Scamming Super Caps. He also thrives on the attention he derives from this activity. The Mittani trys to portray the most bad ass villain he can, taking extra effort to publicize the crushing of the weakest Victim. When he receives an eve mail from a person trying to gain sympathy from the attacker he goes on a feeding frenzy.

Mittani being a former lawyer GGt probably has been one of the few people that has actually read the EULA, and the TOS.
Mittani being evil for so long has heard an amazing amount of sob stories as people attempt to gain Mittani's sympathy in hope for him to play fair, and to return some of the stuff stolen or halt an attack.

So in that mind set: When he is told is a story, a story that is had been heard many times before, just some of the details has been changed and just like before to produce more care bear tears he shows no sympathy.
Did anyone in that room immediately object to the Mittani after his presentation... Not from the video cast I say... why?
-->Was it because we thought it was a part of the game?
-->Or was our psychological tendency to see harm on other and be happy it was not me?

I don't know Mittani's victim personally in Real Life and can't say who is or who is not having suicidal tendencies. But I bet several people have lied about it to gain sympathy from others and after the current up rising many more will do so.

In summary: In Eve Online: you play an avatar. DO NOT volunteer any personal information.
If people follow this rule real cases of people exploiting other people real life misery won't happen. We play in a game where Social combat is real and not a role of the dies. Stories, lies and political manoeuvring are encourage with in the game and not halted in like in MMO Care Bear Games.

Personally after seeing this current situation with the Mittani and I come across some one claiming hard time. I will refer them to the TOS, will have to claim they are simply telling me a story, filled with half truths or lies, and tell them that I am not down that path of play as I pod them.

No, it's funny that the stupid ******* think that Mittani is in any actual danger. I mean christ, these Internet E-Lawyers actually were "very serious posting" about how Mittani is guilty of Cyberbullying and he could be arrested and put in prison, tut tut, very serious. Morons.

We're posting in this thread (and the other one) because watching the clueless fucks run around going "oh god oh god we FINALLY GOT THAT EVIL GOONIE~" is some of the best chat **** we've seen in goddamned ages.

Let me spell that out for all the pubbies: We're farming this thread for your outrage. Delicious tears, geddit?

Hell, this will probably be it's own slide on Mittani's slideshow next year.

Source of the information was collected off of the Virtual Game and presented with in that Game's Event.
This presentation happen in a presentation that was where people were Presenting their views as their views in game at the Alliance Pannel
The Source was Virtual... there for any physical presents of this information is still Virtual


Prevent this from happening again we need to stop it at its source - people presenting non game relient information. Other wise I have to say it is just all lies

So many people miss the point.

So many arguments regarding "He didn't do anything to you" or "This is Eve Online" or "Virtual vs Physical".

Sure, this is something all pilots in EvE Online should expect. Scams, threats, ignorance, maliciousness. It's all part of the game. This is a sandbox. We all know it happens and we all have thick skins. Noone here should be offended by what Mittens said. But it's not about "us".

This is about the rest of the world. This is how potential players see us. I for one would love to open the launcher and see 80,000 players online. It gives "us" more of a game to play. It also gives CCP more money to introduce amazing new content. Why would we want to tarnish the name of EvE Online and possibly dissuade players from joining us? That's exactly what happened in this case.

Many large scale gaming websites ran this story. Just reading the comments from those websites, it made me ashamed to be associated with eve. People all over are ignorant. They will take this story and blame eve online itself. They will consider each and every player in EvE online the same as Mittens. This is just simple truth. It's not something we can control. You can choose to ignore it, but it doesn't make anything "better". We are still looked down upon.

The bottom line is, Mittens did something that was frowned down upon by a portion of the eve community, and a tremendous amount of outside gamers who may never look at eve as a possible game in the future. This is the harm it has caused. That's the realization.

Personally, I have nothing against Mittens. I have thick skin and what was said doesn't bother me at all. I'd just like to see more players in EvE online playing the same game I do. More targets to lock. But outbursts like this constrict the number of new players we could potentially house.

/end

You really shouldn't try to help anyone with anything involving language.

From the Mittani's Apology Thread

this problem could have been avoided by not providing personal information.

Irrelevant.

Mittani has already said he crossed a line that should not be crossed.

No one should be sending any eve mails to anyone describing their real life to anyone.
Especially information to goons to try and gain sympathy from them or any aggressor.

Put on the Breaks.... People voted on who the mittani for who he in game... Mittani continues to remain the mittani even though he has the added responsibility of being a voice for the players...

Also while on the CSM panel - the Mittani did act differently when he was on the alliance panel.

The Mittani acts as a CSM Representative when he is a CSM Representative. Mittani does not Act as a CSM Representative when he is being the leader of the Goons... He acts like the leader of the Goons.
For example - Being third party for super transactions.

Breaks? He should go to jail for what he did.. break??

I want him banned and removed permanently from CSM, ccp cannot keep him active, it will be a disgrace if ccp keeps him active.

With this witch hunt all you people have started. Please remember that you also will reap what you sow. If you push so hard for Mittens to get banned please don't wine when CCP bans you for something they consider bulling in game. If you think that this witch hunt will only affect him and no one else you are sadly a fool.

Witch hunt implies he did nothing wrong and is just being persecuted.

Sucks about it all being on video huh. Kinda ruins that Witch hunt concept you want to spin into the narrative.


This is the furthest thing from a witch hunt.

Most of us are geeks playing eve.
Most of us have been bullied, infact that what makes us the worst bullies of all.
The bullied are the worst bullies because they feel that since they were once the victim they can't do any thing wrong.

Hence the Flaming of Mittani. We are all taking our being bullied frustrations on him.

So what have you done for the victim?
I was able to find him, offered to sit on guard in an Ospray with reps encase gankers came. and offered while I had the standing to keep attacking a GSC to summon the concord till my standing was no longer. I was told that was not needed. So I left. But I have left an offer to call me if he needed help in the future... Leaving him a GG#markerGG%

Am I saying what the Mittani did was over the top. Yes!
I also think a goon mind set was in place when he put the slide show together, with out removing the name of the individual from the post- (a goon needs an internet space ship face on his victim.)
I also think the combination of Alcohol and per pressure to be the goon leader in front of his fellow goons in the audience caused his over the top reaction to go after a victim.

Personally I think that at Fan Feast anyone doing any formal presentation must be sober during those presentation. Which includes Alliance panel. Any Presentation involving the Live Stream needs to have an active moderator on stand by to circumvent the repeat of what happened.

So what can we do to prevent this from happening again:

No sharing of personal information.
No Alcohol on any formal panel. The Alliance Leadership Panel is now to be seen as an official panel.
A CCP representative now aware of what to look leading the panel especially if it will be live streamed.


Banning Mittens?.. is punishing the symptom not fixing the problem. As there will always be another mittens just under a different name.

if you remove the cause then you remove the effect.

The Mittani has felt bad about his actions. and had paid 11 Bill in isk to the victim and wrote a public letter of apology realizing his wrong doing..

Many people in several threads have threated or wished ill will of Mittani over the last few days... should we ban them too?

but all that is meaning less... we need to hit the cause of the problem not the symptom..

do not post personal information with in Eve. it is even in the TOS.

Your response lacks substance, was it too hard for you to understand? Or do you simply not have any valid argument?

I could care less if he resigned or not.
I want to see what CCP makes out of public harrasement.

Thing is - the damage is done and that can't be undone. Again, if you let sh*t to happen, you should clean the sh*ts yourself. There were bunch of drunk peoples on that video - don't call the devil ...
But, at the end, nothing will be changed because many (as I see) find this entertaining.

CCP doesn't _need_ to do anything.

The news story is now "Drunken fool resigns CSM Chair after calling for players to harass someone." This will defuse the media "storm". If it doesn't - but my gut tells me this is enough - he can still resign from the CSM altogether.

This threadnaught is dead to me now.

Anyone heard the round tables on Eve Radio ? mittani said that if someone goes to hospital because of him, he feels that he's done a good job. Now this. Clearly the guy is mean all the way and has no limits.

Perma ban.

It's over.

He apologized and stepped down as chairman.

He received a 30 day ban, and as a result forfeits his position on CSM 7.

In the context of how I interact with EVE, this is good enough for me.

ccp needs to ban him for life to set a example.
the 30 day ban sends out the wrong message for gamers and to the industry.

No we didnt do it. Mittens gets all the credit on this one lol. Lets see wut he Fks up next lol. I am sure it is going to be a blaze of stupidty when he comes back. lol. I think he will go off his rocker and loose it.

Yes, people do say stupid things when drunk.

I've done it myself.

But inebriation does not mean that you are no longer responsible for your actions.

If you do something wrong you deserve to face the music for it, whether you're drunk or sober.

It's the right thing in the circumstances for The Mittani to leave the CSM.

There's a little boy and on his 14th birthday he gets a horse... and everybody in the village says, "how wonderful. The boy got a horse" And the Zen master says, "we'll see." Two years later, the boy falls off the horse, breaks his leg, and everyone in the village says, "How terrible." And the Zen master says, "We'll see." Then, a war breaks out and all the young men have to go off and fight... except the boy can't cause his legs all messed up. and everybody in the village says, "How wonderful."

Now the Zen master says, "We'll see."

No "we" did not do it. Stop trying to claim for yourself something you did not do.

If anyone did it, it was this lad and CCP. Our opinions really are irrelevant and from what I have read I doubt he would have jumped himself.

As much as I found the particular behaviour that started this disgusting I was not going to give my opinion on what should happen to him. Now to me gloating is just as disgusting it is over and done with, now move on.

Good. I hope both him and company learned valuable lesson from this nasty incident and that CCP won't allow drunk infants to yell crap under their banner ever again.

Justice has been Served.

I'm actually going to sympathise with Mittani on this, yes he was an idiot and said stuff he shouldn't have but you know what so what haven't we all at one time in our lives whilst being slightly merry

I think the main problem with all of this and the aftermath is actually more down to CCP "apparent" lack of anything resembling common sense. It really shouldn't have to have got to the point where the screaming hoards a.k.a childish tosspots were throwing their toys out of the pram and the others like sharks in the water smelt blood and jumped on the bandwagon

Considering the state he was in he should have never been allowed to talk at a public event anyway, someone from CCP should have just said "no chance mate, go and have a cup of coffee and we will wheel out some more "Choose your own destiny (as long as you either like high-sec or sucking the balls of some 0.0 alliance) videos

People say stupid stuff when their pissed period. You have a large amount of testosterone fuelled kids,younglings and teens/early twenties adults add to that a spattering of women and booze and then ask people from that group to publicy speak and what did you expect was going to happen? Jesus me and a couple of mates can get into more trouble than that just on a Friday night

What he did, yes was wrong but really is anyone suprised that this hasn't happened already

Anyway what's really going to change? I doubt not much, The strange thing is EVE actually needs the GOONS and RAIDEN/BOB and the other large established power blocs, every good story needs a villans and hero's (obviously depending on your viewpoint
for it to actually work? Imagine how boring EVE would be without all the drama lama's the scam's, the eternal battle between us and the GSF

Don't get me wrong I don't particulary like Goons or what they stand for but if it wasnt for them I wouldn't have anyone to moan about and if it wasn;t for Raiden/ PL etc the Goons wouldn't have anyone to try and nerf so they can beat us [:roll:

Me personally the guy was an idiot he's apologised and resigned that's it it's over, CCP really need to take a look at themselves as at the moment they just remind me of some drunken boxer reeling from blow to blow and not actually learning how to protect themselves

I've seen a bunch of you clowns constantly posting this crap and guess what, this is my real (main) character..

FYI - All accounts over 30 days active with a paid subscription have the right to post in any sub forum. Whether in a NPC corp or player made corp, all are equal and have the right to voice their opinions in these forums (in accordance with the terms and conditions of the EULA).

WTF did you expect, people? You elected the Goon boss to be the boss of the CSM. That's like Americans being pissed off that the country went to **** when they voted for a Republican. Why are you shocked? If you want to have any sort of decency or integrity at the helm of the CSM, then don't vote for someone who is the self-proclaimed polar opposite.