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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.07 12:43:00 -
[1]
My goal is to introduce a little more uncertainty to the battle field of eve. Anyone that has been in real combat will tell you things rarely go as planned and that you can never really be sure what to expect.
As it is now, webbed and scrammed is usually dead. Through in some ecm and/or sensor damps and you're helpless.
How would it be if you could dump your entire capacitor charge into your shield systems to create an EMP in the hopes of disrupting the sensors of nearby ships? An unfitted ecm burst of sorts. An "I'm ****ed anyway, lets see if this works" tactic.
Now before you start flaming let me explain more fully. It would have to be chance based. It couldn't be another "I don't lose button". It would have to have some serious disadvantage to using it.
I was thinking an opposed roll of emp strenghth vs sensor strenght of ships caught in the blast. EMP strength could be modified by the amount of charge in the initiating ships capacitor. If you use it earlier in the fight it's more effective. This would hopefully prevent abuse, so that firing it off at the end of a fight, when your cap is exhausted, probably wouldn't work. Maybe prohibit or penalize it's use if you have a cap charge injector fitted.
Let's talk penalty for use. I mean serious penalty. Like it randomly fries fitted modules. Or cuts your cap to 1/4 until repaired. Or you can't target anything for 60 seconds. Or a combination. For sure the ship that fired it off would have to loose all sensor locks.
Benifits would be a chance to break the lock of all ships within the area of effect. I was also thinking a 5-20 second recalibration time to sensors IF a ship is affected.
Range could be based on ship class or just one size. Not sure on optimal vs fall off. It would have to be tested to determine. I was thinking 10, 15, or 20 km, but again I have no idea.
Alternatively, if this mechanic is too easy to exploit or overpowered, it could be added as a chance to occure upon ship destruction. Say a 25-50% chance.
I'm just looking to mix things up a little in combat.
Thoughts? Comments?
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Ackuula
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Posted - 2008.09.07 12:52:00 -
[2]
Trying fitting a ECM module and then say hitting the over heat button (aka the Panic Button) because you are screwed anyway right?
I do like the idea of things that can damage modules and put them off line, but other than that everything you want is already in the game.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.07 13:29:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 07/09/2008 13:34:54
Originally by: Ackuula Trying fitting a ECM module and then say hitting the over heat button (aka the Panic Button) because you are screwed anyway right?
I do like the idea of things that can damage modules and put them off line, but other than that everything you want is already in the game.
What I want is a little more variation in combat strategy. I've been tryin to look at this from all the different engagement possiblities. One on one. One on many. Small group combat. Large group combat. Sniper warefare. Slob.. I mean blob warfare.
"Trying fitting a(n) ECM module" isn't exactly constuctive. How does that help when you are completely locked down and ecm'ed and/or damped?
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2008.09.07 13:56:00 -
[4]
It already exists. Its called ECM Burst. Fit this area of effect module and you are done.
It has a major drawback: It costs one med slot.
But this is not the true reason why nobody uses it. Whenever you are not alone, it kicks your standing. Sometimes it even leads to concord-instadead.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.07 14:08:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 07/09/2008 14:08:27
Originally by: Kel Nissa It already exists. Its called ECM Burst. Fit this area of effect module and you are done.
It has a major drawback: It costs one med slot.
But this is not the true reason why nobody uses it. Whenever you are not alone, it kicks your standing. Sometimes it even leads to concord-instadead.
Yes I'd though of ECM Bursts. Does anyone actually use these? No one that I know of. Maybe CCP should just rework bursts.
As I said, my idea could also be a random occurance upon ship destruction.
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Ackuula
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Posted - 2008.09.07 15:52:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Ackuula on 07/09/2008 15:55:06
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 07/09/2008 13:34:54
Originally by: Ackuula Trying fitting a ECM module and then say hitting the over heat button (aka the Panic Button) because you are screwed anyway right?
I do like the idea of things that can damage modules and put them off line, but other than that everything you want is already in the game.
What I want is a little more variation in combat strategy. I've been tryin to look at this from all the different engagement possiblities. One on one. One on many. Small group combat. Large group combat. Sniper warefare. Slob.. I mean blob warfare.
"Trying fitting a(n) ECM module" isn't exactly constuctive. How does that help when you are completely locked down and ecm'ed and/or damped?
You don't want a tactic, you want a get out of jail free card. A "random" event "Hail Mary" isn't a tactic. When you are completely locked down you are supposed to be pooched not
"Oh look I rolled doubles, you don't get to kill me...haha :p''''''''' WARP!"
If you want a tactic try screaming for help on what ever Corp Vent server you are logged into. I've seen plenty of battles turned by the calvary.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.08 04:56:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ackuula You don't want a tactic, you want a get out of jail free card. A "random" event "Hail Mary" isn't a tactic. When you are completely locked down you are supposed to be pooched not
"Oh look I rolled doubles, you don't get to kill me...haha :p''''''''' WARP!"
If you want a tactic try screaming for help on what ever Corp Vent server you are logged into. I've seen plenty of battles turned by the calvary.
I was thinking about combat in general. Most people shy away from it. Many will only play station "peek-a-boo". And quite a few won't even step into low sec. I've been trying to figure out why, and how to help fix it.
Your type is the main reason. You want a guarenteed gank. Blob much? Blaster boat: mwd in, scram, web, activate weapons, win. Yawn. I already said I didn't want an "I don't lose button". We already have that in nano's (getting the nerf, finally) and cloaks.
I have simply suggested an idea for people who are hopelessly out gunned or outnumber, to MAYBE get away, while rendering thier ship completely unworthy of combat. With a VERY low chance of success.
OR
If that works out to be overpowered; a random event, upon ship destruction, to throw one more variable into fleet battles.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 11:14:00 -
[8]
No one else want's to flame me? I'm hurt.
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Slobodanka
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Posted - 2008.09.09 11:48:00 -
[9]
ECM bursts are useless against anything bigger than cruiser IMO. T2 burst have strength of 7.2 across board, according to EFT it can go up to 9 with all-lvl5 falcon pilot. It also has the lovely limitation of only using once at any time (or is it fitting only one?) and range of 9+6km (again this is for all-lvl5 falcon pilot). The lowest basic sensor strength of any cruiser is 11 (for minnie cruisers of course). Famous vaga has trenght of 14, making chance of ECM burst being effective even lower. In age of uber-falcons and ECM people are fitting more ECCMs to their ships, unless it's a really small gang that will disengage if falcon appears on battlefield or they have their own falcons to counter enemy falcons.
Remote ECM bursts for MS I can understand, with its uber strenght of 25 that will jam just about every non-cap ship without ECCM fitted. ECM burst on the other hand is just one more useless module to clutter DB and make it slower.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 18:18:00 -
[10]
Like I said earlier, maybe they just need to rework ecm bursts.
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Giaus Samariton
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Posted - 2008.09.09 18:54:00 -
[11]
How this works in essence ins'nt the issue i like the idea that before you get popped you can try a last ditched effort to add an element of chance to the fighting.
Could whn you hull is at less than 50%. a) Dump the ships pulpulsion core to space, targeting ships target the pulpulsion core as it is released from your ship can't warp or move but buys you time to build back your shield/armour and attack. Corp member has to bring you a ship specific core from market/station if you survive, can be placed in space and scoped back to ship.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.09 19:18:00 -
[12]
That could work too. I'd just like to see people get off the stations and actually fight.
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Toric Gaul
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Posted - 2008.09.11 12:45:00 -
[13]
I kinda like the idea. Maybe it should have a chance of blowing your ship up.
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Copyleft
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Posted - 2008.09.11 15:04:00 -
[14]
Not a bad idea, reminds me of the matrix film
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Lucius Quest
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Posted - 2008.09.11 16:10:00 -
[15]
I like the general idea of giving players a last ditch possibility of surviving a hopeless fight, but it would need to be well thought through in order to prevent abuse.
For one, if players could generate that kind of effect to temporarily "disable" nearby ships, PvPer groups would start sending one guy ahead in a relatively cheap ship with low tech fittings (if any at all) and have him EMP the sh*t out of any potential victims before his mates jump in for a quick round of shooting fish in a barrel.
Instead of generating such an EMP, how about a kind of "energy feedback" pulse that would have a chance of affecting any enemy module that is creating a persistent effect on your ship - so warp jammers/scramblers, webs, targeted ECMs etc.
The pulse could use up the entire remaining or at least a large portion of cap, the chance of success (and perhaps strength of the effect) relying on the actual amount of cap power put into the pulse. The effect on the aforementioned enemy modules could be anything from temporary deactivation to overheating, possibly even destruction - possibly scaled depending on some factors. The effects on your own ship would need to be severe too, damaging and/or destroying some modules (especially anything energy related, such as cap boosters), perhaps temporarily disabling shields, etc.
This would add a bit more dynamic to the whole situation and would be more difficult to abuse, methinks. PvP-curious. |
Sile Suirghiche
Gaidhlig Technology
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Posted - 2008.09.11 19:43:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Like I said earlier, maybe they just need to rework ecm bursts.
This, absolutely.
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ThaDollaGenerale
The Priory
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Posted - 2008.09.12 04:25:00 -
[17]
I see intys running towards falcon at full speed and hitting the button. Instant break of lock and ecm. Maybe good, maybe bad.
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Ackuula
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Posted - 2008.09.14 08:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Originally by: Ackuula You don't want a tactic, you want a get out of jail free card. A "random" event "Hail Mary" isn't a tactic. When you are completely locked down you are supposed to be pooched not
"Oh look I rolled doubles, you don't get to kill me...haha :p''''''''' WARP!"
If you want a tactic try screaming for help on what ever Corp Vent server you are logged into. I've seen plenty of battles turned by the calvary.
I was thinking about combat in general. Most people shy away from it. Many will only play station "peek-a-boo". And quite a few won't even step into low sec. I've been trying to figure out why, and how to help fix it.
Your type is the main reason. You want a guarenteed gank. Blob much? Blaster boat: mwd in, scram, web, activate weapons, win. Yawn. I already said I didn't want an "I don't lose button". We already have that in nano's (getting the nerf, finally) and cloaks.
That's pretty funny, because of "my type". I just joined FW and haven't been in more than half a dozen PvP battles before that since joining Eve.
You want to know why people don't PvP. Because it can be hard to find a corp where people actually know how to do it.
They also get stuck on the idea that the only way they can compete is to have a BS/T2 ship, plus rigs, plus faction/T2 fitting, combat implants, and level 5 skills. Sticker shock scares them away.
The easiest way to get them in is for people to dump that mindset and fill their hangers up with T1 frigates, destroyers, and cruisers. That and get a jump clone so they don't have to risk their training implants.
A single lvl four mission will easily out fit you for a week of fighting in throw away ships. I have stacks of Kestrals and Thoraxes for just that. Slap on meta level 1 and 2 modules load up some ammo and hit the road.
Even if you can't find a good PvP corp or fleet in FW you can have a blast going out in a T1 frigate blob swarming anything that looks like easy pickings and run away when they aren't.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.14 14:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ackuula Even if you can't find a good PvP corp or fleet in FW you can have a blast going out in a T1 frigate blob swarming anything that looks like easy pickings and run away when they aren't.
And there you go, blob warefare. You want a guaranteed gank. Your type. At least you have the right idea about pvp. You are absolutely right that many people think they need an UBER fitted BS or HAS to pvp, and then are too afraid to lose it to even pvp. I personally fly the least ship I think I can get away with to do a job.
I'd just like a little less guaranteed in ganking. Another option or two. Or some more randomness in a fight.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.14 14:56:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Toric Gaul I kinda like the idea. Maybe it should have a chance of blowing your ship up.
this. there is nothing intrinsically wrong with have a button that could potentially be a "get out of jail free" card, as long as it requires signing below the pentagram to use.
the possibility of detonating your ship, with your pod inside it (instant podding) neatly balances out the possibility of escaping.
the higher your cap is, the better your chance of EMPing the others, but also the better your chance of blowing yourself into next Tuesday.
perhaps at full Cap, you have a 95% chance of breaking the lock of everyone targeting you (people who arnt targeting you wont have their sensors blinded), and a 50% chance of blowing up.
at 1% cap, you a have 1% chance of blowing your ship up, and a 3% chance of shaking lock. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
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Anig Browl
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.15 00:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kel Nissa It already exists. Its called ECM Burst. Fit this area of effect module and you are done.
It has a major drawback: It costs one med slot.
But this is not the true reason why nobody uses it. Whenever you are not alone, it kicks your standing. Sometimes it even leads to concord-instadead.
True, and this is uncool. ECM does no harm to neutral ships, so it shouldn't invoke the wrath of Concord. I don't use it either, but I'd like to and it would make the game more interesting. Much more fun than a warp stab.
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Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.15 14:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Anig Browl
Originally by: Kel Nissa It already exists. Its called ECM Burst. Fit this area of effect module and you are done.
It has a major drawback: It costs one med slot.
But this is not the true reason why nobody uses it. Whenever you are not alone, it kicks your standing. Sometimes it even leads to concord-instadead.
True, and this is uncool. ECM does no harm to neutral ships, so it shouldn't invoke the wrath of Concord. I don't use it either, but I'd like to and it would make the game more interesting. Much more fun than a warp stab.
ECM bursts still shake the lock of neutral ships that are locking something else, potentially. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.15 16:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Sir Substance
Originally by: Anig Browl
Originally by: Kel Nissa It already exists. Its called ECM Burst. Fit this area of effect module and you are done.
It has a major drawback: It costs one med slot.
But this is not the true reason why nobody uses it. Whenever you are not alone, it kicks your standing. Sometimes it even leads to concord-instadead.
True, and this is uncool. ECM does no harm to neutral ships, so it shouldn't invoke the wrath of Concord. I don't use it either, but I'd like to and it would make the game more interesting. Much more fun than a warp stab.
ECM bursts still shake the lock of neutral ships that are locking something else, potentially.
Maybe an ECM burst should just flag you to anyone it hits then. It doesn't do any real damage, so concord blowing the hell out of your ship seems a little harsh.
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Ackuula
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Posted - 2008.09.15 16:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass
Originally by: Ackuula Even if you can't find a good PvP corp or fleet in FW you can have a blast going out in a T1 frigate blob swarming anything that looks like easy pickings and run away when they aren't.
And there you go, blob warefare. You want a guaranteed gank. Your type. At least you have the right idea about pvp. You are absolutely right that many people think they need an UBER fitted BS or HAS to pvp, and then are too afraid to lose it to even pvp. I personally fly the least ship I think I can get away with to do a job.
I'd just like a little less guaranteed in ganking. Another option or two. Or some more randomness in a fight.
Dude, you are an ass. Technically anything beyond a 1v1 fight is a "blob". The only time you don't blob for the win is when your ship completely outclasses the target(s).
Beside you obviously have never been part of a frigate blob before. People blowing up so fast (on both sides) it is a riot.
Your idea is pretty dumb. I seriously doubt that any baby PvP'r is going to remember to hit the button before he dies. Most don't remember to turn on their rep'ers on in a fight, what makes you think they are going to remember this?
There are already plenty of options in a fight: tactics, fleet composition, ship types, ammo types, modules, implants, skills, booster, rigs, and game mechanics.
What your idea is pandering to are the bulk of the people that can't be bothered to learn anything about them, and just want a no brainer like your "Escape Button".
They used to have an "Escape Button" which was called "Emergency Warp" and that completely broke combat. Even with all the limitations and penalties you are dreaming up, that's exactly what you are asking for.
So I still say no.
Here's a crazy idea, how about going and learning how to play the damn game instead?
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.15 17:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ackuula Dude, you are an ass.
Thanks I get that alot.
Originally by: Ackuula Technically anything beyond a 1v1 fight is a "blob". The only time you don't blob for the win is when your ship completely outclasses the target(s). Beside you obviously have never been part of a frigate blob before. People blowing up so fast (on both sides) it is a riot.
A blob is when you try to hopelessly outnumber your foe to win no mater what. People that can't stand to lose ever, favor the blob. I try to avoid bein on either end of a blob.
I've taken part in frigate only gangs. I've also done destroyer only, and a mix of both. It's a lot of fun. We try to take on anyone and anysize group we won't get completely slaughtered again. Frigate warfare is a complete blast because they are so cheap.
Originally by: Ackuula Your idea is pretty dumb.... ect ect ect
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. You seem rather worked up. You really can't stand not getting your way can you?
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Ackuula
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Posted - 2008.09.15 22:47:00 -
[26]
(Yawn) Hardly. Tone is difficult to display in text. Instead of worked up, it's more like annoyed, like when talking to an child that has an idiotic idea.
It's not my way anyway. I've seen this idea a dozen times before. Hell I'm sure I've posted something similar back as a baby pilot. Your idea breaks combat for no particular reason other than just because. The Dev's have stated time an time again that anything like that will not be added to the game.
Also it is quit lame to be posting with an alt, a mission running alt at that.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.09.16 00:31:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 16/09/2008 00:32:59 Annoyed, worked up, whatever. Ya went from semi constructive discussion to throwing out insults. Now yer tryin to discredit me by sayin you've got sooooo much more time in game when you have no idea. If this is your main, you've got six month on me in game. And that means what? As for posting on an alt, I choose to play the game for fun. I post in this forum to improve a game that I enjoy. If I hurt your feelings I don't need you looking me up in game and trying to grief me. I waste enough time on idoits here.
Yes the EMP idea has been thrown out before, but not in quite the ways I've suggested. Guess it's got merit if I'm not the only one suggesting it huh? The way I would like to see it implemented is hardly combat breaking. Clearly you don't like it, but all I've got from you so far "it would screw up my gank", "I've hardly pvped till now", "I like blobs", and "it's a baby pilot idea that breaks combat".
So a hauler pilot or miner might not have a 100% chance of dying when he gets caught. So some dude tryin to catch up to his fleet jumps into a small gate camp and might get away with a crippled ship. So the first guy primaried in a larger engament dumps his cap and breaks the lock of a couple close ships. I've suggested a low chance of success. What about all the times it wouldn't work? Sittin is combat with zero cap and broken modules doesn't sound all that great. What if they blew themselves to hell?
I've made several different suggestions including reworking ecm bursts in the hopes of adding a little more variety to eve's current combat. Do you like station peek-a-boo? Do you like that everyone hides in high sec? Do you really like blobs? I'm looking to give options to people in really desperate situations. I'm looking to make combat less gauranteed and more interesting.
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Dogfighter
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Posted - 2008.09.17 19:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Slobodanka ECM bursts are useless against anything bigger than cruiser IMO. T2 burst have strength of 7.2 across board, according to EFT it can go up to 9 with all-lvl5 falcon pilot. It also has the lovely limitation of only using once at any time (or is it fitting only one?) and range of 9+6km (again this is for all-lvl5 falcon pilot). The lowest basic sensor strength of any cruiser is 11 (for minnie cruisers of course). Famous vaga has trenght of 14, making chance of ECM burst being effective even lower. In age of uber-falcons and ECM people are fitting more ECCMs to their ships, unless it's a really small gang that will disengage if falcon appears on battlefield or they have their own falcons to counter enemy falcons.
Remote ECM bursts for MS I can understand, with its uber strenght of 25 that will jam just about every non-cap ship without ECCM fitted. ECM burst on the other hand is just one more useless module to clutter DB and make it slower.
Perfect, you got the words out of my mouth. ECM Burst is completely useless, and its range is ridiculous. I think that's why this post was created. ECM Bursts -must- be revisited. And haulers must benefit of them, haulers already are sitting ducks, give them some chance to escape.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.10.10 09:20:00 -
[29]
So not the most popular idea ever, but I still think there needs to be a little more randomness in combat.
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Fullmetal Jackass
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Posted - 2008.10.11 23:07:00 -
[30]
Rework ECM bursts then?
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