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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.09.07 17:07:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Eomar
Originally by: Pan Crastus
As for the "constant fight" ... The player numbers haven't really increased much in the past 6 months and I don't see any improvement with lag. How many new nodes have been added in 2008?
Adding nodes doesnt solve everything. in some cases, and i believe EVE has reached that point, its counterproductive.
[...] Awful Lot of armchair experts here yelling FIX TEH LAGGZ, if its that easy, tell them HOW. Please. I'm sure theyll be delighted, if only cos it means theres one less thing for people to whine about.
How about you post a sensible explanation why you think adding nodes is "counterproductive" now? The lag issues nowdays seem to come from nodes that have too many busy systems on them (because the sudden 200v200 fleet fight in 0.0 ends up on e.g. the Motsu node). It seems reasonable to assume that this can be avoided more often by adding more nodes, even if they're mostly idle.
Especially if the alternative is whine threads and no improvement at all for another year or so, while CCP does their best to increase player numbers with advertising money (that could buy lots of nodes).
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Piper Halliwell
Minmatar Phantom Squad
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Posted - 2008.09.07 17:14:00 -
[32]
Incase you were all wondering, the OP did a youtube video to. I Have My Suday's Back! and no it is not Rick Roll as I hate that f'ing song, video and guy. -------------------- You've got a gun, I've got a gun, Let's write a tragic ending.
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Trathen
Minmatar SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.09.07 17:14:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
How about you post a sensible explanation why you think adding nodes is "counterproductive" now?
'Counterproductive' as in an incredible amount of resources for the sole purpose of ****ing in the ocean. _ |
Doc Fury
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Posted - 2008.09.07 17:33:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Ga'len
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Jim McGregor
"Insert smart-ass remark here"
Insert indignant rebuttal here
LOL, That totally made my day.
Yes, make more threads about LAG, good idea. The only way things seems to get addressed around here is if there is a large amount of threads complaining about the issue. Look at suicide ganking, nano complaints, etc...
CCP only changes things when there is a LOT of complaining.
So, it's long overdue to complain about VALID issues, such as LAG.
You don't want to contribute to more than one thread about a VALID issue, that's your decision.
If you do, I do welcome your positive discussion on the issue.
A proven way to get CCP to focus their attention on an issue like LAG is to create hundreds of threads here (whining a lot gets things changed in EVE).
If more people also created EVE = LAG threads on 3rd party gaming sites like mmorpg.com and TTH informing potential players about CCP's hype vs. the demonstrable LAG you'd probably see CCP make LAG their FIRST priority instead of just some priority ranked somewhere below ambulation, nerfs, and playing instruments in stations.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Eomar
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.09.07 17:39:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Trathen
Originally by: Pan Crastus
How about you post a sensible explanation why you think adding nodes is "counterproductive" now?
'Counterproductive' as in an incredible amount of resources for the sole purpose of ****ing in the ocean.
That and even an 'idle' node is utilising resources and bandwidth communicating with everything else, I'm far from being an expert, what I know of massive server managment can be written on a stamp. in big letters. but from what I do know, throwing more resources at a system achieve little when the resources are not the bottleneck.
As I understand it, there are more than enough nodes to deal with the traffic eve has, and in fact many run way below thier capacity all day. The issue lies with getting data between nodes, databases and system, and that is largely an issue with the way information is transmitted, processed and disseminated. something adding more hardware cannot fix. In the case of adding another node, then youre adding more info, even if its doing nothing its still reporting status, activity etc etc etc which all needs to be transmitted, dealt with (or ignored) and so on.
In terms I can relate to, If i've got 2 5000gpm pumps, and a 2 inch bore pipe, then adding a third pump aint gonna get the fluids anywhere any quicker, in fact the increased pressures would likely cause all 3 to run slower, reducing thier efficiency and eventually ****ing the whole system up. ...in accordance with the prophecy |
Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.09.07 17:43:00 -
[36]
POSTING IN A SUNDAY LAG THREAD!
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!
Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Atomos Darksun
Infortunatus Eventus Obsidian Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.07 17:45:00 -
[37]
Why don't you donate several thousand dollars for hardware upgrades.
Otherwise, STFU.
Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice...
Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming |
Deviana Sevidon
Gallente Panta-Rhei United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.07 17:47:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ga'len
LOL, That totally made my day.
Yes, make more threads about LAG, good idea. The only way things seems to get addressed around here is if there is a large amount of threads complaining about the issue. Look at suicide ganking, nano complaints, etc...
CCP only changes things when there is a LOT of complaining.
So, it's long overdue to complain about VALID issues, such as LAG.
You don't want to contribute to more than one thread about a VALID issue, that's your decision.
If you do, I do welcome your positive discussion on the issue.
Insert whine about whiners here.
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Doc Fury
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Posted - 2008.09.07 17:49:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Atomos Darksun Why don't you donate several thousand dollars for hardware upgrades.
Otherwise, STFU.
Or, CCP could just refrain from spending subscription revenue buying TV advertisements in the U.S. for one week and that would pay for a pile of new blade servers.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Sneeze100
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Posted - 2008.09.07 17:50:00 -
[40]
I think this is a valid comment from the op and to flame the thread does him a injustice. the rest are just here to belittle you in your posting of a topic that concerns every person that plays eve. I dont belive the peeps that say they never have had lag before they are talking bullshi& and please ccp sort the lag out.
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Nazatul
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Posted - 2008.09.07 18:18:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Lord Road O, I surgest you try WOW as they don't have much lag... but then again it's a shit game and theres no where near as many people on one server.
I use to be in a raiding guild in WOW, we raided 7 nights a week, until the LAG go so bad on a sunday night we had to drop it to 6 nights a week. It doesnt matter which game you play the INTERNET LAGS on a sunday night, come to think of it it use to lag in EQ,AC,DAOC etc etc etc. Dont play MMO on a sunday night go play something else.
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.09.07 18:40:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Atomos Darksun Why don't you donate several thousand dollars for hardware upgrades.
Otherwise, STFU.
You fanbois are so funny, do you really believe CCP doesn't have "several thousand dollars" for hardware upgrades?
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.09.07 18:46:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Eomar
That and even an 'idle' node is utilising resources and bandwidth communicating with everything else,
Not very likely that 10 servers with 50 systems on them utilize noticeably fewer resources (other than electricty and rack space) than 20 servers with 50 systems on them.
Quote:
I'm far from being an expert, what I know of massive server managment can be written on a stamp. in big letters. but from what I do know, throwing more resources at a system achieve little when the resources are not the bottleneck.
Well, the resources *are* presumably the bottleneck until someone posts inside info that suggests otherwise.
Quote:
As I understand it, there are more than enough nodes to deal with the traffic eve has, and in fact many run way below thier capacity all day.
The fact that they run below their capacity is due to the missing dynamic load balancing. How can this be an argument against increasing server resources to fix bottleneck that are obviously there? Sure, it's not a "good" solution, but good solutions take time and it's better than nothing.
Quote:
The issue lies with getting data between nodes, databases and system, and that is largely an issue with the way information is transmitted, processed and disseminated. something adding more hardware cannot fix.
Where do you have this information from? More hardware nodes = also more networking paths = less contention.
Quote:
In the case of adding another node, then youre adding more info, even if its doing nothing its still reporting status, activity etc etc etc which all needs to be transmitted, dealt with (or ignored) and so on.
The status reporting per node is probably negligible compared to the status reporting per solarsystem, which is the same regardless of the number of servers.
Quote:
In terms I can relate to, If i've got 2 5000gpm pumps, and a 2 inch bore pipe, then adding a third pump aint gonna get the fluids anywhere any quicker, in fact the increased pressures would likely cause all 3 to run slower, reducing thier efficiency and eventually ****ing the whole system up.
In terms of stupid analogies, if I have 2 of them already, I am not proving my point by adding a third.
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.09.07 19:26:00 -
[44]
strange i can play all day every day if i so like, only places i get lag are Jita and aq few highly populated empire systems, if you want less lag move!!!
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gpfwestie
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.09.07 20:06:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Orion GUardian You know that CCP is constantely adressing lag issues?
Yeah right.
We have been waiting (not very) patiently for two years since the blade servers were installed.
What exactly has been done since then ?
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Jare Tzard
Gallente Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.08 08:42:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Atomos Darksun Why don't you donate several thousand dollars for hardware upgrades.
Otherwise, STFU.
You say this like we are playing a free game here. I already pay subscriptions for this so why shouldn't I demand a playable game 7 days a week? I don't see CCP giving me a refund on my game time every time their system is unplayable. |
Jare Tzard
Gallente Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.08 08:47:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Steve Hawkings strange i can play all day every day if i so like, only places i get lag are Jita and aq few highly populated empire systems, if you want less lag move!!!
What many people don't understand it that lag particularly effects certain game styles, particularly PvP. The carebears are unlikely to notice this problem as much (except maybe mission runners).
I have seen lag in systems with 10 or less people in it, so it's certainly not just high population.
p.s. I'm not suggesting you are a carebear.
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Jare Tzard
Gallente Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.08 08:50:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Jare Tzard on 08/09/2008 08:50:48
Originally by: Doc Fury
If more people also created EVE = LAG threads on 3rd party gaming sites like mmorpg.com and TTH informing potential players about CCP's hype vs. the demonstrable LAG you'd probably see CCP make LAG their FIRST priority instead of just some priority ranked somewhere below ambulation, nerfs, and playing instruments in stations.
This.
And why are CCP pushing ahead with ambulation (which imo will add very little to the game) when their servers obviously cannot support current load. Ambulation is hardly going to make the load issues better.
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Stork DK
Minmatar Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.09.08 08:56:00 -
[49]
Actually i'm getting more lagg than usually lately..?
@ the OP. There was a thread about how lag is generated earlier and i suggest you read it. It's not all just about throwing more RAM and more CPU's in the servers. imo what you need to do is stop reading my sig ___________
Originally by: CCP Nozh I see you'r nano... And i TAKE IT!!
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Hungo
Minmatar Research And Tactics Zeta Tau Epsilon
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Posted - 2008.09.08 09:02:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ga'len I want to thank CCP for continuing to NOT address the LAG issue in game. As a result, I no longer put in the play time with EVE because the game is unplayable on Sundays.
So, being that this continued LAG issue is not a problem, but a "random undocumented feature", I must thank them for this bonus to our beloved past time. I now have more free time on Sundays to do other things.
/sarcasm off
Yeah, I am not happy. I look forward to playing EVE on the weekends as I work full time during the week.
Seriously CCP, thank you so much for your continued work on the many issues that exist in game. This last patch resolved many issues, including many issues that were obvious bugs in the UI.
You have made a large step forward, but the LAG problems are what is holding this game back. Faction warfare, your latest marketing tool to increase subscriptions, is backfiring because of the LAG. LAG is what will kill this game above all else. Please do something positive and in the immediate future.
lol just lol, what an attention seeking girl
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Gone'Postal
Minmatar Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.09.08 09:35:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jare Tzard Edited by: Jare Tzard on 08/09/2008 08:50:48
Originally by: Doc Fury
If more people also created EVE = LAG threads on 3rd party gaming sites like mmorpg.com and TTH informing potential players about CCP's hype vs. the demonstrable LAG you'd probably see CCP make LAG their FIRST priority instead of just some priority ranked somewhere below ambulation, nerfs, and playing instruments in stations.
This.
And why are CCP pushing ahead with ambulation (which imo will add very little to the game) when their servers obviously cannot support current load. Ambulation is hardly going to make the load issues better.
Your missing the point on ambulation, that part of eve will run on diffrent servers (IIRC) lowing the ammount of players on the "in space" servers = less useage and lag.
CCP have at a guess failed to come up with anything that would help them so have opted to dump this onto us for:
A beta testing parts of there new mmo on the eve playerbase. B side stepping lag with flute playing at the local station bar.
Boost SISI VOTE NOW! |
Liberator 1
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.09.08 09:43:00 -
[52]
I agree that lag is bad and that CCP sould attempt a fix, I have to apologise on behalf of the Minnie Militia for having a humungous fleet op with 350 odd pilots involved on Sunday which can't have helped. (FW rocks - it was pure Star Wars!)
------------------------------------------- ôIf you are in a spaceship that is traveling at the speed of light, and you turn on the headlights, does anything happen?ö ------------------------- |
Glengrant
TOHA Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.08 09:46:00 -
[53]
I played yesterday - 0 lag.
No - I was not at the remotest 0.0 corner of map - I was in Everyshore.
If you were in Jita or one of the noob-startup systems or other well known crowd area on a sunday - shrug.
Don't assume that just because you had lag in a place that it is universal - it very rarely is.
CPP has been addressing the lag issue for a long time. Some changes are easier than others. You think EVE 3 years ago could have handled the current numbers and fleet sizes? But at the end of the day some systems will always fill to capacity.
Get over it. --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOOSER EVE TV- Bring it back!
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Stork DK
Minmatar Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2008.09.08 09:48:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Liberator 1 I agree that lag is bad and that CCP sould attempt a fix,
You'r really imagining that after 5 years CCP have made no effort to reduce lagg? imo what you need to do is stop reading my sig ___________
Originally by: CCP Nozh I see you'r nano... And i TAKE IT!!
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.09.08 10:05:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Ga'len
Originally by: FlameGlow 1) Make 1000 threads about it 2) Get banned for it 3) Less lag for everyone else
Make 1000 threads about it, like the NOS changes, Nano changes, Suicide changes.
CCP fixes the problem like the NOS and Suicide
Less lag for everyone.
Yup, sounds like a plan, get to it!!!
THe major difference is those issues need only the will and a few hours of attention of the game design epartment to be solved.
The lag issue needs millions in equipment and god knows only how many man/month of recoding work . So stop with this crap. CCP is obviously doing the best they can against laag, but this is an incredbly hard issue to solve.
Unless you find a way for them do adquirre liek 200 new blade staitions for free then no way you can compare this issue to balancing nanos. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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