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heheheh
PedoHamma
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:02:00 -
[31]
he just spent alot on a ship and hes gutted its a crap one.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:02:00 -
[32]
Originally by: heheheh
Still see no problem here. maybe we can argue more after your forum ban ?
Are you pretending to be a moderator now?
I'm sure that ships of one race being totally better then their counterparts of another race is not a balance issue.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ruze
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: heheheh
Still see no problem here. maybe we can argue more after your forum ban ?
Are you pretending to be a moderator now?
I'm sure that ships of one race being totally better then their counterparts of another race is not a balance issue.
Getting someone 'banned' takes a lot, and Bronco here is one of the tame ones. Some players will troll every single thread, throwing one-line nonesense with no intent to help the thread. Others issue threats and insults on an hourly basis.
I've only seen one ban for a horribly insulting and malicious poster, and she is already back at it. And she was going on that insult train for a long, long while beforehand, too.
There are some damn good faction ships, as has been pointed out. The Machriel and the Succubus being two of them.
But ones like the Amarr Navy Slicer? It's a joke. Who in their right mind would choose to use it over an Executioner?
Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Mia Archer
Amarr Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:12:00 -
[34]
while for the most part faction ships are right where they should be in my opinion there are several that are clearly not balanced properly the Ashimmu for example is pretty much a useless piece of shit if you actually try to fit it the way it's obviously intended to fit, simply due to its craptastic grid for its massive number of high slots + armor tank + web role, the only decent fittings i have ever seen for it use projectile weapons when it clearly is intended to use lasers due to the ship bonus, and even most of those require heavy skills like awu 4-5 etc which makes it stupidly skill intensive for not much actual gain over several base t1 cruisers of the basic races ____________________________________________
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eddie valvetino
Caldari ECP Rogues
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:26:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Pan Fairchild
Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:05:08 amarr navy slicer. 8 mil + 5000 LPs. contracts. 30-50 mil. worse in every way to a T2 frig.
I'm already flying T2 ships before having the faction to buy faction ships.
Meh, I always saw the faction gear as a roleplaying element. Make them better than T2 and everyone will fly it, make it cheaper then T2 and a gazillion noobs run around with poorly fitted 'elite' ships... either way neither one makes sense.
Although having said that whats up with the Dramiel? 25% dmg seems like a rather nice bonus... but a rifter can do more dps oh and run points and tank and well do just about everything the Dramiel does poorly.
hold on a second, a gazillion sounds like alot.. so you're saying there'll be lots of n00bs in expensive-ish ships flying around...
man that would be great... I get lots of points on my KB for faction kills
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:32:00 -
[36]
The Guristas ships are pretty terrible as well. Bonuses to guns and missiles, but with only a couple of turret slots? The Rattlesnake is effectively just a Raven.
Give the Rattlesnake a 4-4 launcher/turret layout, and a 150-175 m3 drone bay, keeping the current bonuses. Now that's a true Caldari-Gallente hybrid. Skill-intensive, yes, but torps, neutrons and Ogres would make it a great gank BS.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:35:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Gypsio III The Guristas ships are pretty terrible as well. Bonuses to guns and missiles, but with only a couple of turret slots? The Rattlesnake is effectively just a Raven.
Give the Rattlesnake a 4-4 launcher/turret layout, and a 150-175 m3 drone bay, keeping the current bonuses. Now that's a true Caldari-Gallente hybrid. Skill-intensive, yes, but torps, neutrons and Ogres would make it a great gank BS.
Or just replace the railgun bonus with a 10% drone optimal range bonus, so it can use sentries.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
heheheh
PedoHamma
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:44:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: heheheh
Still see no problem here. maybe we can argue more after your forum ban ?
Are you pretending to be a moderator now?
I'm sure that ships of one race being totally better then their counterparts of another race is not a balance issue.
Nope im reporting you for calling me mentally handicapped. I didnt say there wasnt a balance issue either, just no problem, much greater things need to be sorted out other than "Trophy ships" that hardly anyone uses anyway.
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:45:00 -
[39]
Dont feed the trolls, afterall mission runners need soemthing to moan about lol. Time is not Money and minerals i mine are free!! |
heheheh
PedoHamma
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Posted - 2008.09.10 12:49:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Steve Hawkings Dont feed the trolls, afterall mission runners need soemthing to moan about lol.
Too true, il leave these carebears to discuss amongst themselves now.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.09.10 13:02:00 -
[41]
Originally by: heheheh
Nope im reporting you for calling me mentally handicapped.
Well, if all you can respond with (to a post detailing what's wrong) is a once-liner saying 'there is no problem', you can expect that sort of comment.
Originally by: heheheh
I didnt say there wasnt a balance issue either, just no problem, much greater things need to be sorted out other than "Trophy ships" that hardly anyone uses anyway.
Faction ships (the ones which are not utter crap) are hardly uncommon. CCP has already fixed some races (Sansha, also all navy cruisers) and added new ships, so obviously they don't exactly think that spending some time to fix what's broken is pointless.
Originally by: Steve Hawkings Dont feed the trolls, afterall mission runners need soemthing to moan about lol.
If you've never seen a Navy Mega or Machariel or Fleet Stabber in PvP, it doesn't make them carebear tools.
Of course, you probably just like trolling, so whatever.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.09.10 13:05:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Steve Hawkings Dont feed the trolls, afterall mission runners need soemthing to moan about lol.
If you've never seen a Navy Mega or Machariel or Fleet Stabber in PvP, it doesn't make them carebear tools.
Of course, you probably just like trolling, so whatever.
Well spotted, I troll all the pointless threads. Time is not Money and minerals i mine are free!! |
Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.09.10 19:12:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Ruze I wish the faction ships were more in line with named items. Meta 4, that kind of thing. Equal to T2 ships, in short.
And I wish there were a lot more faction ships.
Amarr Navy Slicer ... let it be on line with the Amarr interceptors, except without the extra T2 bonus. An expensive ship that is on par with T2, just like Meta 4 is on par with T2. T2 is better, due to skill bonuses, but on the base item, it's nearly the same.
We need more faction ships, too. I want an Amarr Navy Punisher, or a Navy Issue Armageddon. Ahh, those would be nice.
This post gets my personal approval.
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.09.10 19:13:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ruze Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the ops original point is that if you compare faction items to named items and T2 items, you get an obviously 'superior' product over pretty much every T1 item, and on the base item, even over T2 (not including skill bonuses).
Ships should reflect that trend. Faction ships should be better than even their T2 counterparts, minus a bonus and correlating skills. Resistances, fitting, etc.
this post also gets my approval.
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.09.10 19:21:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 10/09/2008 19:24:25
With thought being put into adding tech 2 faction items at the moment I really don't see the problem.
t1 faction t1 t2 faction t2 etc
More importantly prices are determined by the market, an item is worth what it's purchaser is willing to pay for it, and in this case the opportunity cost of spending those LP's on a different item must be taken into account (eg. if I can get at most 2500ISK/LP on an item then I'm going to want similar returns on other items I may trade my LP in for). If there is a problem with the price of faction battleships then it is probably tied to other items in the LP store and not the ships themselves.
------------------------------- Hi-Sec: A place for the average player to make a safe income, not the place for the average player to make the best income. |
Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.09.10 19:29:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Edited by: Daelin Blackleaf on 10/09/2008 19:24:25
With thought being put into adding tech 2 faction items at the moment I really don't see the problem.
t1 faction t1 t2 faction t2 etc
More importantly prices are determined by the market, an item is worth what it's purchaser is willing to pay for it, and in this case the opportunity cost of spending those LP's on a different item must be taken into account (eg. if I can get at most 2500ISK/LP on an item then I'm going to want similar returns on other items I may trade my LP in for). If there is a problem with the price of faction battleships then it is probably tied to other items in the LP store and not the ships themselves.
maybe you missed the part where faction modules > any T2 modules out there, and it costs you LP + isk, where if LP is considered how much you can get of it per mission, in comparison to how much isk you get per mission, you can figure the real price of LP in ISK, thus the ships are ridiculously more expensive and still suck.
sorry, but for modules: T1 T2 faction.
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nails
Caldari Ota Corps
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Posted - 2008.09.10 19:30:00 -
[47]
mmm T2 faction. I have many billions saved up for one of those. --------------
http://nails.otaku.jp/ota-corps/ |
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.09.10 19:48:00 -
[48]
What we need is *OFFICER* ships. Yeah, baby. Estemel's Modified Machariel BPC, 10 runs... Can I haz?
And when am I getting my faction and t2 cap ships anyway?
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Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.09.10 20:19:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ekrid maybe you missed the part where faction modules > any T2 modules out there, and it costs you LP + isk,
Maybe you missed your own thread title and original post.
Items doesn't just mean modules, and even then your talking complete nonsense, the majority of t2 modules are superior to their lower meta counterparts.
There are exceptions, there are many of them, but that in no way makes t2 universally inferior to faction.
As for your point about LP: The ISK earned in missions is in no way constrained to being spent in the LP store, likewise the LP store does not only accept ISK earned in missions. While any consideration of trading in LP's must take into account the ISK price and the tags involved that does not mean LP do not have an independent value and that this value does not heavily impact other items in the store.
------------------------------- Hi-Sec: A place for the average player to make a safe income, not the place for the average player to make the best income. |
Straight Chillen
Gallente Solar Wind
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Posted - 2008.09.10 20:22:00 -
[50]
i would gladly trade my ishtar for a guardian vexor..... _
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Major PewPew
The Dark Horses
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Posted - 2008.09.10 20:53:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:03:30 1. they cost a lot less than faction ships.
I just paid 290m for a Navy Mega in Jita last night...Compare this to a Kronos, at around 600m? I can faction fit my Navy mega for less than the initial cost of the Kronos, wtf are you talking about?
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.09.10 20:58:00 -
[52]
Supply meet demand......
working as intended --
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Dreaded Chaos
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Posted - 2008.09.10 21:26:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Gypsio III The Guristas ships are pretty terrible as well. Bonuses to guns and missiles, but with only a couple of turret slots? The Rattlesnake is effectively just a Raven.
Give the Rattlesnake a 4-4 launcher/turret layout, and a 150-175 m3 drone bay, keeping the current bonuses. Now that's a true Caldari-Gallente hybrid. Skill-intensive, yes, but torps, neutrons and Ogres would make it a great gank BS.
You obviously have never flown a Rattlesnake before. It in no way compares to a Raven. It is far better. It's probably one of the best BS's in the game. Has descent fire power and an insane tank. You can even put a good passive setup on it if you don't have much isk and it will walk through any mission without blinking. But where it shines most is in pvp :) Don't f**k with a Rattlesnake in pvp.
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Kayo Recce
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Posted - 2008.09.10 21:30:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Major PewPew
Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:03:30 1. they cost a lot less than faction ships.
I just paid 290m for a Navy Mega in Jita last night...Compare this to a Kronos, at around 600m? I can faction fit my Navy mega for less than the initial cost of the Kronos, wtf are you talking about?
Wow, you must have cheap setup on that Navy Mega, mine has a 3 billion isk setup on it.
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Loofaro
Clown Punchers Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.09.10 21:34:00 -
[55]
Faction BS's are fine as they are, for PvP they are no doubt better than their tech2 counterparts and they are cheaper as well, so these might even need a nerf:P (no really black ops should get a boost, marauders are for pve so I dont care, but would be nice with a PvP orientated tech 2 BS that didn't suck).
Faction Cruisers are as other have said partially fine, fleet stabber, caracal etc.. but some of the pirate one's should get boosted to be on par with theese.
Faction Frigates suck pretty much, they look darn good but thats about it, and about the only use they have is to do cosmos missions while you got too low sp's to get an af, some faction warfare and stuff like that. Some of them aren't even better than regular t1's, I don't see how any of you can argue against them getting a boost.
That being said i want a navy griffin that jams as a kitsune and have drone bay of a griffin(if not a bit bigger:D) (willing to pay 50 mil a piece or more)
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Major PewPew
The Dark Horses
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Posted - 2008.09.10 21:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kayo Recce
Originally by: Major PewPew
Originally by: Ekrid Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 07:03:30 1. they cost a lot less than faction ships.
I just paid 290m for a Navy Mega in Jita last night...Compare this to a Kronos, at around 600m? I can faction fit my Navy mega for less than the initial cost of the Kronos, wtf are you talking about?
Wow, you must have cheap setup on that Navy Mega, mine has a 3 billion isk setup on it.
Train T2 Neutrons, and you wont have to spend ur cash on officer blasters. And Amarr Navy EANMs are just fine for me. :) No need to kit it out like its a mothership. 300m for the ship and 200 or so on a few select faction mods makes it perfect for what i use it for.
Do me a favor when you lose yours, pass the KB link to me so i can laugh at you.
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Ekrid
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Posted - 2008.09.10 22:04:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Ekrid on 10/09/2008 22:04:47
Originally by: Loofaro Faction BS's are fine as they are, for PvP they are no doubt better than their tech2 counterparts and they are cheaper as well, so these might even need a nerf:P (no really black ops should get a boost, marauders are for pve so I dont care, but would be nice with a PvP orientated tech 2 BS that didn't suck).
Faction Cruisers are as other have said partially fine, fleet stabber, caracal etc.. but some of the pirate one's should get boosted to be on par with theese.
Faction Frigates suck pretty much, they look darn good but thats about it, and about the only use they have is to do cosmos missions while you got too low sp's to get an af, some faction warfare and stuff like that. Some of them aren't even better than regular t1's, I don't see how any of you can argue against them getting a boost.
That being said i want a navy griffin that jams as a kitsune and have drone bay of a griffin(if not a bit bigger:D) (willing to pay 50 mil a piece or more)
And here's the sad part about that. I was sitting in AFs within 1 month from character creation and at 3 mil SP in 2 months. Yes, I chose the soldier-soldier setup that gives you high tanking and turret abilities. in those months, I also got trained up to BCs and cross trained into caldari cruisers for the lulz of it. I also had amarr indy at L4, and the ability to train for inties if I wanted too, so you can imagine what my nav skills were like. this was back when I had 3 mil SP. I could also use every EW module with some competency, and energy emission weapons too, and remote en/rep/shield Xfer arrays as well. All within 2 months. contrast that to how much time of ACTUALLY PLAYING that it takes to grind the LP and ISK for faction ships (which still suck, like the slicer), or buying one for 50 mil, and you see how these things are worthless.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.09.10 22:14:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Dreaded Chaos
Originally by: Gypsio III The Guristas ships are pretty terrible as well. Bonuses to guns and missiles, but with only a couple of turret slots? The Rattlesnake is effectively just a Raven.
Give the Rattlesnake a 4-4 launcher/turret layout, and a 150-175 m3 drone bay, keeping the current bonuses. Now that's a true Caldari-Gallente hybrid. Skill-intensive, yes, but torps, neutrons and Ogres would make it a great gank BS.
You obviously have never flown a Rattlesnake before. It in no way compares to a Raven. It is far better. It's probably one of the best BS's in the game. Has descent fire power and an insane tank. You can even put a good passive setup on it if you don't have much isk and it will walk through any mission without blinking. But where it shines most is in pvp :) Don't f**k with a Rattlesnake in pvp.
Nonsense. It's just a Raven with more EHP. Sure, you can put blasters/rails on, but those slots are better used for RRs/neuts. The extra lowslot isn't really much use for anything, unless you're armour-tanking, in which case your damage will be terrible.
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Kurt Ambrose
Caldari Digital assassins
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Posted - 2008.09.10 22:20:00 -
[59]
Boost pirate faction frigs/cruisers, thanks.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.09.10 23:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Ruze But ones like the Amarr Navy Slicer? It's a joke. Who in their right mind would choose to use it over an Executioner?
Navy slicer is actually much more like a punisher than an executioner. And who would use it?
Well..
DOES THE PUNISHER/EXECUTIONER HAVE HEADLIGHTS? or like 300 engines? no i thought not.
(yes it is a crap ship though :( ) __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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