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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1457
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:20:00 -
[511] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:
So I am sympathetic to the idea of replacement candidate to take his seat. Not sure how that would work but some sort of election for a new chair?
All in all, sad turn of events.
Issler
Your tone has changed considerably? WTF happened? Reading back a bit... Hope you didn't attract TEST's attention. TEST is like a drunk, fat, greasy date with Herpes who sorta just shows up and leaves shortly after the rest of your alliance mates leave.
My position on mittens and what CCP did hasn't. I do realize a large group of players now feel unrepresented and I think that is the sad reality of the result of someone's very poor judgement.
Issler |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2197
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:21:00 -
[512] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote: Wow Hans, I was on the Skype chat for about 6 hours total yesterday and no one brought anything related to this up. You were there all the time. Great chats about guns, food and stuff.
Well, stuff happens fast. The stuff everyone is talking about now, like the dev blog and what that means for CSM7, happened after the fun chats. That's why I'm recommending checking in with the CSM before making casual public comments. It's totally fine if you can't be on Skype all day, just please try to wait till you get home and get up speed, than comment away. Missed an interview or debate? Check my CSM7 blog for details.
Many thanks to all of my friends and supporters for the kind words! |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
112
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:22:00 -
[513] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:
I threatened a whole business??? Wow, now that is the furthest stretch to date. You need to take a step back and remember who did the thing what caused this whole ruckus.
How can this not be a CSM issue? It goes to the very issue of CSM member accountability and credibility with the player base. Players were calling on the CSM to share their opinions on the matter. Some did. Some choose not to. I did exactly what I promised if elected, I was honest and transparent.
I did what I was elected to do. More people get than than not.
Issler
Yeah I have to admit I am with Issler on this. You are not going to get Issler to budge using silly tricks or threats, advice or different opinions.
Take a stand and let NOBODY tell you what to do. Go get 'em tiger! |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1457
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:23:00 -
[514] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:Great chats about guns, food and stuff. Guns! I love guns. Please tell me more!
At one point I used to help a casual friend that owned a large collection of machine guns put on "club" shooting weekends with a lot of automatic weapons out in the deserts of AZ. I mentioned one of these days I will get around to owning a BAR.
I'm not sure why I'd ever need one, but if I did find I needed one I can't think of an easy substitue!
Issler |
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:25:00 -
[515] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:] But another member of the CSM posted in the general discussions that they would issue a statement about this. And it wasn't Hans or Issler or darius.
And when was this post made? Did they post anything before the banhammer?
Also, CSM is not here to discuss politics, it is here to help the direction of enhancements to the game. The only involvement the CSM should have had was discussing any beefing up (or clarification) of the ToS and EULA in the aftermath.
And if a CSM member was unhappy that it was not brought up in Skype chat... WHY DID THEY NOT BRING IT UP THEMSELVES. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
113
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:25:00 -
[516] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:At one point I used to help a casual friend that owned a large collection of machine guns put on "club" shooting weekends with a lot of automatic weapons out in the deserts of AZ. I mentioned one of these days I will get around to owning a BAR. I'm not sure why I'd ever need one, but if I did find I needed one I can't think of an easy substitue! Issler
So coy. You old rascal you.
|
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1457
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:29:00 -
[517] - Quote
Cyrina Manto wrote:Frying Doom wrote:] But another member of the CSM posted in the general discussions that they would issue a statement about this. And it wasn't Hans or Issler or darius. And when was this post made? Did they post anything before the banhammer? Also, CSM is not here to discuss politics, it is here to help the direction of enhancements to the game. The only involvement the CSM should have had was discussing any beefing up (or clarification) of the ToS and EULA in the aftermath. And if a CSM member was unhappy that it was not brought up in Skype chat... WHY DID THEY NOT BRING IT UP THEMSELVES.
Because, honestly I was happy with the posts I made. My only regret was that I made comments that were unfairly critical of the CSM that had chosen to not share their opinions, it was their right not to respond. My posts accurately represented what I was asked by players to share.
Issler |
Princess Bride
Corripe Cervisiam Trade Consortium
333
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:30:00 -
[518] - Quote
Frankly I was disgusted by the CSM members who failed to recognize that The Mittani staying on the CSM was never an option from the second he opened his mouth and inserted his foot at the panel. You all played it safe and waited to see what would happen. I would have thought it was pressure from CCP to remain silent had it not been for Issler out here raising cane about it like EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING.
Frankly, in my opinion the only right thing to do would have been to demand his immediate termination from the CSM and failing that, resigned from an organization that would clearly have become a mockery had he been allowed to stay. If I were Issler I would be embarrassed to work with any of you at this point. Absolutely weak and sad advocacy of what Alex did through silence. Or maybe it was just your own cowardice or fear of Alex. Either way, you're not fit to represent yourselves, not to mention the Eve community. http://eveprincessbride.wordpress.com/ |
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:32:00 -
[519] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:
Because, honestly I was happy with the posts I made. My only regret was that I made comments that were unfairly critical of the CSM that had chosen to not share their opinions, it was their right not to respond. My posts accurately represented what I was asked by players to share.
Issler
Yes, but you should have held your tongue until CCP had handed down punishment.
And threatening a business, was referencing the people trying to get SONY involved, effectively trying to hold DUST ransom for their cause. |
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
447
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:36:00 -
[520] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Issler Dainze wrote: So I am sympathetic to the idea of replacement candidate to take his seat. Not sure how that would work but some sort of election for a new chair?
All in all, sad turn of events.
Issler
Once again, you could start by talking with the rest of the CSM first before publicly posting on critical situations. You would probably have a better idea of how it might work. Wow Hans, I was on the Skype chat for about 6 hours total yesterday and no one brought anything related to this up. You were there all the time. Great chats about guns, food and stuff. But, sure, Issler You're a liar, I brought it up. And that's all I'll say about stuff in the PRIVATE (NDA COVERED) channel. www.noirmercs.com Now Recruiting CSM7, CSM 4 |
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Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
115
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:37:00 -
[521] - Quote
Cyrina Manto wrote: Yes, but you should have held your tongue until CCP had handed down punishment.
And threatening a business, was referencing the people trying to get SONY involved, effectively trying to hold DUST ransom for their cause.
I think it is a good sign that Issler is getting Sony involved and creating some waves to get his point across. I mean if you make a moral stand you have to take all means to get to a moral end.
Say what you will but you cannot smudge character like that. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
115
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:39:00 -
[522] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote: You're a liar, I brought it up. And that's all I'll say about stuff in the PRIVATE (NDA COVERED) channel.
Oh shizzle, did someone just let slip some info about NDA covered material? Wonder what else was discussed in the channel... |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
73
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:43:00 -
[523] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Alekseyev Karrde wrote: You're a liar, I brought it up. And that's all I'll say about stuff in the PRIVATE (NDA COVERED) channel.
Oh shizzle, did someone just let slip some info about NDA covered material? Wonder what else was discussed in the channel... Probably cooking recipes. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1457
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:44:00 -
[524] - Quote
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Issler Dainze wrote: So I am sympathetic to the idea of replacement candidate to take his seat. Not sure how that would work but some sort of election for a new chair?
All in all, sad turn of events.
Issler
Once again, you could start by talking with the rest of the CSM first before publicly posting on critical situations. You would probably have a better idea of how it might work. Wow Hans, I was on the Skype chat for about 6 hours total yesterday and no one brought anything related to this up. You were there all the time. Great chats about guns, food and stuff. But, sure, Issler You're a liar, I brought it up. And that's all I'll say about stuff in the PRIVATE (NDA COVERED) channel.
You never said a word. Sorry.
Issler |
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:44:00 -
[525] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Cyrina Manto wrote: Yes, but you should have held your tongue until CCP had handed down punishment.
And threatening a business, was referencing the people trying to get SONY involved, effectively trying to hold DUST ransom for their cause.
I think it is a good sign that Issler is getting Sony involved and creating some waves to get his point across. I mean if you make a moral stand you have to take all means to get to a moral end. Say what you will but you cannot smudge character like that.
CSM is a privilege, not a right. With this fiasco and boneheads like you, I could see CCP killing the CSM.
You would be playing with the livelihoods of hundreds of people, for virtual politics.
And you speak of the moral high road... |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1457
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:50:00 -
[526] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Cyrina Manto wrote: Yes, but you should have held your tongue until CCP had handed down punishment.
And threatening a business, was referencing the people trying to get SONY involved, effectively trying to hold DUST ransom for their cause.
I think it is a good sign that Issler is getting Sony involved and creating some waves to get his point across. I mean if you make a moral stand you have to take all means to get to a moral end. Say what you will but you cannot smudge character like that.
To be fair I would have no idea how to get Sony involved. But I expect they were contacted by other folks. All I did was pretty simple, I shared my opinion on the situation here in the forums. One critique that was repeated regularly about the CSM 6 was they weren't very open or transparent and particularly reluctant to have an individuals position on an issue shared publicly. I've no intention of reinforcing that impression.
I can see however that I've riled up some folks.
Issler
|
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
117
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:56:00 -
[527] - Quote
Cyrina Manto wrote:Time Funnel wrote:
I think it is a good sign that Issler is getting Sony involved and creating some waves to get his point across. I mean if you make a moral stand you have to take all means to get to a moral end.
Say what you will but you cannot smudge character like that.
CSM is a privilege, not a right. With this fiasco and boneheads like you, I could see CCP killing the CSM. You would be playing with the livelihoods of hundreds of people, for virtual politics. And you speak of the moral high road...
Heh, if CCP wanted to kill the CSM they would first have to get rid of a bunch of people they didn't like on it. Then they would have to marginalize it by cutting off the lines of communication using excuses like certain delegates are using the mechanisms to further their own personal agendas.
I think it is high time that there were more people like Issler out there who will NOT COMPRIMISE their beliefs in the face of overwhelming adversity. Even if it is the "voice of reason" as other people would have you believe. It is time for change! and that change is through Issler. |
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:58:00 -
[528] - Quote
Issler, The thing about SONY was not directed at you, my apologies if people thought that.
In your position, I would have simply told people that I was waiting for CCP to handle the situation before commenting. If anything to keep it out of the political argument arena.
After that though, I would have let mittens have it. I do not agree with what he did, but its known practice in this game. If anything I would have also attacked the people raging on the forums when they do the same stuff in their day to day EvE activities. |
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:00:00 -
[529] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:
Heh, if CCP wanted to kill the CSM they would first have to get rid of a bunch of people they didn't like on it. Then they would have to marginalize it by cutting off the lines of communication using excuses like certain delegates are using the mechanisms to further their own personal agendas.
I think it is high time that there were more people like Issler out there who will NOT COMPRIMISE their beliefs in the face of overwhelming adversity. Even if it is the "voice of reason" as other people would have you believe. It is time for change! and that change is through Issler.
And this is why you could never be a leader, HTFU. |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
73
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:00:00 -
[530] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote: Heh, if CCP wanted to kill the CSM they would first have to get rid of a bunch of people they didn't like on it. Then they would have to marginalize it by cutting off the lines of communication using excuses like certain delegates are using the mechanisms to further their own personal agendas.
I think it is high time that there were more people like Issler out there who will NOT COMPRIMISE their beliefs in the face of overwhelming adversity. Even if it is the "voice of reason" as other people would have you believe. It is time for change! and that change is through Issler.
I agree completely, this one was pretty straight forward and we should have heard from each CSM member as they got home ect.. condemning it. Not a we will get back to you in a few days message. Why does the world believe that because you are elected we should expect less of people not more. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
|
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:06:00 -
[531] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Time Funnel wrote: Heh, if CCP wanted to kill the CSM they would first have to get rid of a bunch of people they didn't like on it. Then they would have to marginalize it by cutting off the lines of communication using excuses like certain delegates are using the mechanisms to further their own personal agendas.
I think it is high time that there were more people like Issler out there who will NOT COMPRIMISE their beliefs in the face of overwhelming adversity. Even if it is the "voice of reason" as other people would have you believe. It is time for change! and that change is through Issler.
I agree completely, this one was pretty straight forward and we should have heard from each CSM member as they got home ect.. condemning it. Not a we will get back to you in a few days message. Why does the world believe that because you are elected we should expect less of people not more.
The only thing any of the CSM members should have said (being able to keep a professional approach) was that they do not condone the actions of said board members.
And time-funnel obviously believes in dictatorships, as that is how they start. |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:15:00 -
[532] - Quote
Cyrina Manto wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Time Funnel wrote: Heh, if CCP wanted to kill the CSM they would first have to get rid of a bunch of people they didn't like on it. Then they would have to marginalize it by cutting off the lines of communication using excuses like certain delegates are using the mechanisms to further their own personal agendas.
I think it is high time that there were more people like Issler out there who will NOT COMPRIMISE their beliefs in the face of overwhelming adversity. Even if it is the "voice of reason" as other people would have you believe. It is time for change! and that change is through Issler.
I agree completely, this one was pretty straight forward and we should have heard from each CSM member as they got home ect.. condemning it. Not a we will get back to you in a few days message. Why does the world believe that because you are elected we should expect less of people not more. The only thing any of the CSM members should have said (being able to keep a professional approach) was that they do not condone the actions of said board members. And time-funnel obviously believes in dictatorships, as that is how they start. Yep that would have been fine. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1459
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:16:00 -
[533] - Quote
And let me say this. The CSM brought a lot of good into the process of the CSM. But that isn't to say that there wasn't a fair amount of criticism of aspects of the CSM 6.
One thing I saw repeated over and over what there was a perception that the individual members actions and opinions were never properly revealed, Even Seleene blogged about that.
Another was that the CSM 6 too long to respond to things that required timely responses.
I wasn't asked to provide the position of the entire CSM as a group or CCP and I didn't. I offered MY opinion as I was asked to do by the players that elected me.
That somehow I am not allowed to share MY thoughts on something before being coached on what to say is never going to be my style. If I allowed the hive mind to tell me how to think I wouldn't have run because I was told over and over the folks that elected me could never come together and elect someone like me.
I was elected because of what I think, not what I'll be coached to think.
When I started this thread I felt it was a no brainer! Of course all the members of the CSM 7 would want to assure the players that they recognized this was a serious matter and no one could support what mittens did. Beyond that was up to them but the basic issue was simple. Did the individual CSM member see this as an issue? I couldn't believe this could be at all controversial. What debate could there be?
What I expected was a lot of goon trolling and the rest of the CSM saying something to the effect "we take this seriously and we are actively discussing this among ourselves and with CCP". Instead this became the censor Issler thread for speakig out of turn.
This is a CSM of many styles of player interaction. My style seems to be an outlier but I am committed to work hard in the CSM 7 for the folks that elected me. I'm sorry I ruffled some feathers before we've even started but I am committed to making the CSM 7 the most open and transparent CSM to date. I hope the rest of the CSM can reflect and see there is value in addressing some of the past criticisms of the CSM 6 in our upcoming term.
We owe the players that elected us that.
Issler |
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:16:00 -
[534] - Quote
You have to remember that most of the CSM isnt the best at PR.
My intention isnt so much to censor outright, more of tone the opinion down a little (not totally stfu or anything). Mostly because people in general will blow things way out of proportion.
Many people who responded in here wanted the CSM to DO something to CCP out of spite for mittens even being in there. Which would have been way out of place for the CSM in general. If anything (I dont know what comms transpired between CSM and CCP) a simple, "Hey, that was not cool, possible ToS/EULA problem there CCP dudes." to CCP should have been it. People calling for more are kinda out of line.
CCP PR can hopefully handle itself. |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
118
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:21:00 -
[535] - Quote
Cyrina Manto wrote:
The only thing any of the CSM members should have said (being able to keep a professional approach) was that they do not condone the actions of said board members.
And time-funnel obviously believes in dictatorships, as that is how they start.
I believe in dictatorships? Why would I be supporting the one person who has the courage to speak his own beliefs on the council?
Duh.
Cyrina Manto wrote:You have to remember that most of the CSM isnt the best at PR.
Yeah they are only good at getting elected.
|
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:24:00 -
[536] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:I believe in dictatorships? Why would I be supporting the one person who has the courage to speak his own beliefs on the council? Duh. Cyrina Manto wrote:You have to remember that most of the CSM isnt the best at PR. Yeah they are only good at getting elected.
Getting elected and having good PR are two different things, you need to stay out of politics. |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
215
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:25:00 -
[537] - Quote
We all know what really went on in CSM Skype.
Trebor was sitting behind his dungeon master screen, rolls some dice.
Seleene is yelling about how he's casting heal spells on mittani's wizard.
Trebor calmly turns to mittani "About your wizard dude"
"He..."
"He didn't make it."
Personally, I'd want to make sure everyone had signed their NDA too. My EVE YouTube Channel |
Time Funnel
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
118
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:26:00 -
[538] - Quote
Cyrina Manto wrote: Getting elected and having good PR are two different things, you need to stay out of politics.
Implying that I am in, or intending to get into politics. If you call this whole farce politics. |
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:27:00 -
[539] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:We all know what really went on in CSM Skype.
Trebor was sitting behind his dungeon master screen, rolls some dice.
Seleene is yelling about how he's casting heal spells on mittani's wizard.
Trebor calmly turns to mittani "About your wizard dude"
"He..."
"He didn't make it."
Personally, I'd want to make sure everyone had signed their NDA too.
Best post ever. |
Cyrina Manto
Masons of New Eden The Laughing Men
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:28:00 -
[540] - Quote
Time Funnel wrote:Cyrina Manto wrote: Getting elected and having good PR are two different things, you need to stay out of politics.
Implying that I am in, or intending to get into politics. If you call this whole farce politics.
You post like a political zealot, just giving advice to stay away from politics before you hurt your representatives image... |
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