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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Arkady Vachon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2012.03.27 05:53:00 -
[61] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Darius III wrote:Nothing but removal from the CSM will show that CCP cares about this issue. What would have turned out to be possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in free good publicity for CSM now turns out to be PR nightmare and unmitigated disaster for our whole community. Just step down and be done with it. Thanks for joining my opportunistic ploy to increase my own power! Issler
Fixed that for you. |
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1337
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:04:00 -
[62] - Quote
Arkady Vachon wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:Darius III wrote:Nothing but removal from the CSM will show that CCP cares about this issue. What would have turned out to be possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in free good publicity for CSM now turns out to be PR nightmare and unmitigated disaster for our whole community. Just step down and be done with it. Thanks for being the first CSM to step up can call this behavior what it was! Flat out unacceptable Issler Jumped in to show mittens I am a loyal lap dog!! Bark Bark!!!!
Right,
This is about not letting some very bad behavior undo all the gains the CSM has made in gaining player support.
And pro-mittens trolls will just make the anti-mittens backlash even greater.
I am still questioning where the other CSM 7 are on this, this should be a unanimous call for at a minimum censure.
Folks that just voted, ask yourself why your candidates haven't joined this protest!
Issler |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
126
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:07:00 -
[63] - Quote
I have to agree, you and I - especially during voting week (hey what happens in voting week stays in voting week) - haven't agreed on much, but we agree on this.
This kind of predatory behavior shouldn't be tolerated.
It's akin to watching a Rodney King tape - the fact that the beating was psychological and not physical doesn't make it any less evil.
CCP shouldn't be just sitting on the sidelines saying "Oh the EULA and TOS weren't breached" on this one either. My EVE YouTube Channel |
michaelthered
The Logistical Nightmare
0
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:11:00 -
[64] - Quote
consequences on this one should be of the real world grown ass variety..... |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
25
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:13:00 -
[65] - Quote
I don't think this will even be anything to do with the CSM7 except The Mittani himself of course, CCP is getting further in the whole as time goes on with less choices. The only thing that could make this worse now was if a real news agency picked up the story to fill a slow news day. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
michaelthered
The Logistical Nightmare
0
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:19:00 -
[66] - Quote
how was a prepubescent mouthbreather allowed to speak on behalf of this game in the first place? |
Yuki 0nna
The White Rose Conventicle
28
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:30:00 -
[67] - Quote
CCP should take this opportunity to lose TheMitanni, who has long fomented and exploited hatred of high sec players, especially miners, as persons. "I have found the average hisec dweller to be truly execrable." This recent outburst was in no way a departure from his usual behavior and "leadership." It merely brings into focus an ugly element in EVE that has got way out of hand recently, thanks in no small part to TheMittani.
This incident reminds me, in may ways, of the PR disaster of the last Alliance Tournament, for which CCP, ready to impress its then recently announced Sony partner, had even managed to lineup some genuine advertisers, only to discover that player arrogance had turned a potentially dramatic virtual "World Cup Final" into a pathetically staged World Wide Wrestling Federation match. How many times does CCP have to take a hit like this before it wakes up to the fact that too many members of its veteran player base, including many it coddles closest, are little but a millstone around its neck. |
Highauger's animated corpse
Stargate SG-1 Fatal Ascension
8
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:32:00 -
[68] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Highauger's animated corpse wrote:Isslers 1st post in : The Office of the Chairman: A ~chill place~ for constituent issues Issler Dainze wrote:Have you stopped beating your wife in the wormholes you hate so much
No, seriously, no actual questions from me at the moment but I think you doing this thread is a great idea, I hope you get some good questions
Issler +1 for a balanced fair discourse. Scumbag People doing good things can loose their way and screw up. And when they do they need to "own it" as Mittens said repeatedly in the alliance panel. Issler
Fair enough, respect.
And you have recognised elsewhere his apology. What has been asked is 'is that enough' that's a different and valid question. On this?, I would take the movement to Crucible, the efforts on monoclegate and the fact that the best possible penance would be CSM chair into consideration. Let's say it straight, chair is a very difficult job, and this will be awkward in that role for a long time. I wouldn't want to do it.
For those who missed the apology....
The Mittani wrote:This has been hanging over my head since Thursday when I stumbled away from the Alliance Panel with a vague sense that I had done something horrible. I didn't know the extent of how much of a shitheel I had been until today, when footage of the presentation went up. As many of you now know, I gave out the in-game character name of a Mackinaw miner if anyone had wanted to blow him up - except that I was so smashed that I didn't recall exactly what I said (as anyone who was there can tell you). When I came to the forums the other day and saw threads complaining about my behavior - not remembering what I'd said - I assumed that I was enduring the usual anti-Goonswarm trolls, and posted something like "deal with it~" in my usual "The Mittani" way.
Then I landed, and saw the article listing my actual quote.
Christ.
I feel absolutely ashamed of my behavior at the Alliance Panel. It's one thing to play a villain in an online roleplaying game - when I post on these forums or on twitter, I usually do so as 'The Mittani', and do my level best to convince everyone that I'm an unrepentant space villain, as that kind of facade provides an in-game advantage to me and my alliance. But I am not that character in real life, as anyone who has met me can attest. I went way, way, /way/ past the line on Thursday night by mocking the Mackinaw miner at a real-life event. I, as a person, am not the entity that I play in EVE; I am not actually a sociopath or a sadist, and I certainly don't want people to kill themselves in real life over an internet spaceship game, no matter what I may say or do within the game itself. CCP may say 'EVE is Real', but EVE is not real - and the line between the game and reality should not be overstepped.
I'm relieved to discover that the Mackinaw miner is doing fine and mining away, despite being blown up by Goonswarm in-game. He deserves, and he has, my heartfelt apologies - here in public as well as a private apology. There's no excuse for what I did - while some might try to use my inebriation as a mitigating factor, I put myself in that compromised mental state, and the guilt of that is entirely mine.
If I could go back in time and not have included the slide mentioning the miner, I would do so. While the Eve Online character "The Mittani" would never apologize for any sort of villany in game, I myself, as Alex Gianturco, feel utterly ashamed and sickened by my behavior.
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Ravan Hekki
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
14
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:38:00 -
[69] - Quote
Am not looking forward to watching Eve vilified in the popular press, hopefully they wont get hold of the story. Be intersting to see Sony's response too. Hope they arent looking at thease forums for any idea about what the Eve player bases is like. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
376
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:53:00 -
[70] - Quote
Apparently CCP is investigating it, but don't count on this issue having any consequence. PR wise, the best CCP can do about it is to cover up and shut up until it fades away.
And politically-wise, Issler just damaged a lot her chances to be listened to at the CSM, and likely killed any chance she had to be taken seriously by the CSM chairman. EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.-á
CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
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Lenni Lennipe
Gladuim Quinque
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:08:00 -
[71] - Quote
Leadership is about taking on a level of responsibility beyond the norm, and as such, the consequences of bad decisions must also be beyond the norm. Mr. Gianturco took that responsibility on when he campaigned for CSM.
Sure he apologized, but the decisions he made, under the influence or not, must be held to account regardless. Whether he feels bad or not, whether the victim in question is OK or not, in any other situation like this, involving someone who is supposed to represent us, he would have already been forced out. In some jurisdictions, he would be subject to arrest or a civil action.
In other words, the only punishment that fits the crime is resignation. He committed a ban-able offense, stepping down from a position of elected leadership is the very least he should do. I truly think he should be banned, not permanently, but for a significant enough time that CCP proves that they're serious about one, protecting their players from such reprehensible behavior, and two, enforcing their own rules.
In RL The Mittani, by my understanding, is a lawyer, so I would expect such an apology from him in this situation. What the hell ELSE would he say? What would ANY of us say if in his shoes? OF COURSE he's gonna apologize- that should happen no matter what. What I think we need to question are his motives for doing so, and knowing what we do, I think it's more political than regretful.
If The MIttani does not resign, as far as I'm concerned it proves that his 'apology' is nothing more than a political maneuver meant to save his own skin.
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Lenrir Andven
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.27 08:22:00 -
[72] - Quote
Lenni Lennipe wrote:Leadership is about taking on a level of responsibility beyond the norm, and as such, the consequences of bad decisions must also be beyond the norm. Mr. Gianturco took that responsibility on when he campaigned for CSM.
Sure he apologized, but the decisions he made, under the influence or not, must be held to account regardless. Whether he feels bad or not, whether the victim in question is OK or not, in any other situation like this, involving someone who is supposed to represent us, he would have already been forced out. In some jurisdictions, he would be subject to arrest or a civil action.
In other words, the only punishment that fits the crime is resignation. He committed a ban-able offense, stepping down from a position of elected leadership is the very least he should do. I truly think he should be banned, not permanently, but for a significant enough time that CCP proves that they're serious about one, protecting their players from such reprehensible behavior, and two, enforcing their own rules.
In RL The Mittani, by my understanding, is a lawyer, so I would expect such an apology from him in this situation. What the hell ELSE would he say? What would ANY of us say if in his shoes? OF COURSE he's gonna apologize- that should happen no matter what. What I think we need to question are his motives for doing so, and knowing what we do, I think it's more political than regretful.
If The MIttani does not resign, as far as I'm concerned it proves that his 'apology' is nothing more than a political maneuver meant to save his own skin.
Right, right, I guess we should sack every scientists out there because they made a 'mistake' during research. Or maybe we should sack the politburo when their polices do not go as intended. Only one chance rite?
In fact, I bet you made a mistake during your career Lenni. You should apologise then 'resign' from the game. |
Lenni Lennipe
Gladuim Quinque
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 08:35:00 -
[73] - Quote
Lenrir Andven wrote:Lenni Lennipe wrote:Leadership is about taking on a level of responsibility beyond the norm, and as such, the consequences of bad decisions must also be beyond the norm. Mr. Gianturco took that responsibility on when he campaigned for CSM.
Sure he apologized, but the decisions he made, under the influence or not, must be held to account regardless. Whether he feels bad or not, whether the victim in question is OK or not, in any other situation like this, involving someone who is supposed to represent us, he would have already been forced out. In some jurisdictions, he would be subject to arrest or a civil action.
In other words, the only punishment that fits the crime is resignation. He committed a ban-able offense, stepping down from a position of elected leadership is the very least he should do. I truly think he should be banned, not permanently, but for a significant enough time that CCP proves that they're serious about one, protecting their players from such reprehensible behavior, and two, enforcing their own rules.
In RL The Mittani, by my understanding, is a lawyer, so I would expect such an apology from him in this situation. What the hell ELSE would he say? What would ANY of us say if in his shoes? OF COURSE he's gonna apologize- that should happen no matter what. What I think we need to question are his motives for doing so, and knowing what we do, I think it's more political than regretful.
If The MIttani does not resign, as far as I'm concerned it proves that his 'apology' is nothing more than a political maneuver meant to save his own skin.
Right, right, I guess we should sack every scientists out there because they made a 'mistake' during research. Or maybe we should sack the politburo when their polices do not go as intended. Only one chance rite? In fact, I bet you made a mistake during your career Lenni. You should apologise then 'resign' from the game.
LOL fail |
knobber Jobbler
Seniors Clan Get Off My Lawn
86
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 08:36:00 -
[74] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:
This is about not letting some very bad behavior undo all the gains the CSM has made in gaining player support.
And most of the support is for Mittens and the CSM's profile has been raised because of him.
Just get over it already and stop having a little drama lama. I'm embarrassed for you and more to the point, you welcome support from the EULA breaking Darius. |
Lomarro
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 08:49:00 -
[75] - Quote
you really need to try harder to get enough member kicked so you and darius get a trip to iceland |
Vile rat
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1055
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 08:58:00 -
[76] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:Arkady Vachon wrote:Issler Dainze wrote:Darius III wrote:Nothing but removal from the CSM will show that CCP cares about this issue. What would have turned out to be possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars in free good publicity for CSM now turns out to be PR nightmare and unmitigated disaster for our whole community. Just step down and be done with it. Thanks for being the first CSM to step up can call this behavior what it was! Flat out unacceptable Issler Jumped in to show mittens I am a loyal lap dog!! Bark Bark!!!! Right, This is about not letting some very bad behavior undo all the gains the CSM has made in gaining player support. And pro-mittens trolls will just make the anti-mittens backlash even greater. I am still questioning where the other CSM 7 are on this, this should be a unanimous call for at a minimum censure. Folks that just voted, ask yourself why your candidates haven't joined this protest! Issler
You see Issler that's the problem. You are coming from a CSM time (CSM 3) where events were formal, people had meetings that accomplished little, and the entire thing was one big crowd facing publicity stunt for the people involved. Before you even have sat down to work with the other members you've already taken a stand that you're going to do your best to make a lot of political hay out of attacking one of them. I'd take some time to work with the other people first before you try to pull this ****. |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
29
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:13:00 -
[77] - Quote
I think standing up for what is right, definitely sounds like less of a PR stunt than shutting up on an issue this large, because you haven't worked with them yet. Trying not to actually pick a side or share in the outrage.
Before you say anything, I have always said we need more newbies, publicly advertising that we are a game full of cyber bullies is not a good start. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
Sverige Pahis
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
895
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:15:00 -
[78] - Quote
Lomarro wrote:you really need to try harder to get enough member kicked so you and darius get a trip to iceland
|
Seleene
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
1382
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:17:00 -
[79] - Quote
Vile rat wrote: You see Issler that's the problem. You are coming from a CSM time (CSM 3) where events were formal, people had meetings that accomplished little, and the entire thing was one big crowd facing publicity stunt for the people involved. Before you even have sat down to work with the other members you've already taken a stand that you're going to do your best to make a lot of political hay out of attacking one of them. I'd take some time to work with the other people first before you try to pull this ****.
I'm going to +1 this for a couple reasons:
The last CSM was very effective because we worked hard to stay in touch and not get publicly combative and look dysfunctional. Issler, you should probably sort out your NDA and get into Skype with the rest of us. We obviously have an issue to resolve but this isn't the way to go about it. Hell, some of us are asleep, just waking up or even still in Iceland. Seleene's Sandbox - My Blog, where I say stuff. Follow Seleene on Twitter |
Mechaet
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:27:00 -
[80] - Quote
Seleene wrote:Vile rat wrote: You see Issler that's the problem. You are coming from a CSM time (CSM 3) where events were formal, people had meetings that accomplished little, and the entire thing was one big crowd facing publicity stunt for the people involved. Before you even have sat down to work with the other members you've already taken a stand that you're going to do your best to make a lot of political hay out of attacking one of them. I'd take some time to work with the other people first before you try to pull this ****. I'm going to +1 this for a couple reasons: The last CSM was very effective because we worked hard to stay in touch and not get publicly combative and look dysfunctional. Issler, you should probably sort out your NDA and get into Skype with the rest of us. We obviously have an issue to resolve but this isn't the way to go about it. Hell, some of us are asleep, just waking up or even still in Iceland. Ladies and Gents, the recently re-elected Seleene, showing why repeated re-election is possible. |
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Avila Cracko
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
221
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:28:00 -
[81] - Quote
So this all is becoming "I cheated my wife, but i was drunk, so its ok" talk??? |
Hrald
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
81
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:31:00 -
[82] - Quote
Avila Cracko wrote:So this all is becoming "I cheated my wife, but i was drunk, so its ok" talk??? The Mittani has repeatedly disavowed using alcohol as an excuse for his behaviour. Reading comprehension, get some. |
Hrald
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
81
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:33:00 -
[83] - Quote
Vile rat wrote:
You see Issler that's the problem. You are coming from a CSM time (CSM 3) where events were formal, people had meetings that accomplished little, and the entire thing was one big crowd facing publicity stunt for the people involved. Before you even have sat down to work with the other members you've already taken a stand that you're going to do your best to make a lot of political hay out of attacking one of them. I'd take some time to work with the other people first before you try to pull this ****.
Also he signs his own posts.
Hrald |
Red Templar
Raging Ducks Goonswarm Federation
204
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 10:09:00 -
[84] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:I think standing up for what is right, definitely sounds like less of a PR stunt than shutting up on an issue this large, because you haven't worked with them yet. Trying not to actually pick a side or share in the outrage.
Before you say anything, I have always said we need more newbies, publicly advertising that we are a game full of cyber bullies is not a good start. 1. It is a PR stunt. She is trying to gain some points by being on a winning side of "moralists". Or at least the thinks they are going to win. Though i doubt that. 2. It is a good start. Cyber bullies will notice Eve and we get more players this way. And those who hate cyber bullies will also join, because they will get chance to get back at them in game, where you can actually inflict significant loses on your adversary.
TL:DR: shut the **** up frying pan. For Love. For Peace. For Honor.
For None of the Above.
For Pony! |
Taiwanistan
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
236
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 10:21:00 -
[85] - Quote
frying doom is a nutjob, go back to his posts supporting issler, he still plagues issler's efforts wis shall not be a cesspool of all-you-can-eat social /dance o7m8 dressup, unrestrained do ask do tell out and proud at the space bar dollhouse, bunch of dudes emoting each other, devoid of gameplay and consequnces. |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 10:24:00 -
[86] - Quote
Taiwanistan wrote:frying doom is a nutjob, go back to his posts supporting issler, he still plagues issler's efforts Thanks, I love criticism from such a morally upstanding, obviously sane individual. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
Di Mulle
45
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Posted - 2012.03.27 10:35:00 -
[87] - Quote
Vile rat wrote: you've already taken a stand that you're going to do your best to make a lot of political hay out of attacking one of them. I'd take some time to work with the other people first before you try to pull this ****.
This probably is not bad thing on itself ? I recall certain CSM6 members enjoyed that tactics pretty much in their time... CCP is unable to implement simpliest things. Like settting to hide signatures. So they sweep it under a rug . Children do that in their pre-shool years, CCP does it being adults. Probably because it is fearless enough. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3161
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 10:38:00 -
[88] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote:As a CSM 7 member I am extremely disappointed with Mittens behavior at Fanfest this year.
The CSM should not only represent the players that elected them but also represent Eve itself to the general public. Mittens in the past has shown himself to be very adept at messaging both in and out of Eve. I can't believe he could have been so misguided in calling for harassment of a possibly suicidal player.
I understand we can expect all manner of crazy behavior at Fanfest and previous goon leaders at the alliance panel have certainly made themselves "controversial" but I think this incident violates a boundary between what happens in Eve and real world damage. Whether or not the player in question was suicidal isn't the point. The point is, in a world where cyber bullying is an emerging issue, we have a prominent figure in Eve clearly calling encourage a real life suicide. That can't be defended on ant level.
Mittens, I've supported the right for folks to act out in Eve as a valid part of the "sandbox", but I can't support your recent actions.
At a minimum we need Mittens to apologize and admit he crossed the line with his behavior. I call to the other elected members of the CM7 join me in this demand!
If the CSM is remain a viable part of Eve we have to adhere to some code of conduct. This recent event is a black eye for the CSM and Eve in general.
CSM 7 join me in protesting this disappointing public display of poor judgement!
We in the CSM owe Eve a much higher standard of behavior!
Issler Dainze
Alex got drunk and made a fool of himself, for which he has now unreservedly apologized.
You, on the other hand, are coldly and calculatingly seeking to whip up and further spread the controversy around a private individual who never wanted any of this, purely to serve your own spiteful, vengeful powerseeking purposes.
Alex was clumsy and stupid in his attempt to make a bad joke. You are being callously manipulative in pursuit of political power.
You and all the other hypocrites doing the same disgust me. You are a far worse stain on the CSM than mittens could be even if he tried, because he lacks your talent for petty spite.
Get out. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 10:53:00 -
[89] - Quote
The thing I find scariest of all is the fact that so many people, seem to consider asking a crowd to try and get someone to kill them selves as foolish behavior or something that an apology and 200 bucks makes go away.
I do wonder if this is something to do with the culture of the United States, or if its a global concept. Yes he stuffed up but he did it on camera to a large audience in front of a large audience. I do actually feel sorry for the guy but worry about the future. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
3162
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 10:56:00 -
[90] - Quote
The thing I find scariest of all is a howling mob who completely disregard that an apology has been made and accepted, but believe that it's their business to keep this whole thing escalating, regardless of the effect on the person they claim to be defending. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
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