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Haikato Saraki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.27 05:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just do it. Dont wait for it to become a problem, just do it now, or soon, or whenever, just don't save the option as some kind of "save the universe" button because by the time its that big of a problem it will be too late.
10% hit to all bounty's will be an unpopular move, I get that, but consider this. You talked at fanfest about shifting more and more NPC services into the hands of players. I believe something along the lines of "your all grown up now, you can run jita" was said. Well that's great, Im excited for that! But the more NPC's you put out of a job the more isk-sinks you plug up.
So don't wait for the waves of isk to roll in once gun-mining is fixed, just do it now. 10% will not hurt the individual pilot that much and the sooner you do "balance incomes" the sooner we'll all get over it. |
WilliamMays
Stuffs Inc.
1
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Posted - 2012.03.27 05:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
agreed, its already a little late in coming. and none of us are conjuring up images of you burning in hell for now, so it's the perfect time to do something "bad" |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
287
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Posted - 2012.03.27 05:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
It's like ripping off a plaster, if it needs to be done, might as well get it over with. WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
476
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Posted - 2012.03.27 05:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes, it needs to be done. But it should be done while balancing the income differences at the same time. It'd ridicilous zero/low-risk highsec dwellers can even make something remotely close in income as the low-, wh- and nullsec dwellers can. Highsec should just a widespread starter-, trader- and transport zone. Income possibilities in highsec should be close to zero. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
equcin meey
camdy and Co. inc.
3
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Posted - 2012.03.27 05:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Misanth wrote:Yes, it needs to be done. But it should be done while balancing the income differences at the same time. It'd ridicilous zero/low-risk highsec dwellers can even make something remotely close in income as the low-, wh- and nullsec dwellers can. Highsec should just a widespread starter-, trader- and transport zone. Income possibilities in highsec should be close to zero.
why should my income be near zero when i choose to play in high sec like other's choose to play in low sec, WH space and 0.0 ?? support the Lego Rifter-á
http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/11619 |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
476
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
equcin meey wrote:Misanth wrote:Yes, it needs to be done. But it should be done while balancing the income differences at the same time. It'd ridicilous zero/low-risk highsec dwellers can even make something remotely close in income as the low-, wh- and nullsec dwellers can. Highsec should just a widespread starter-, trader- and transport zone. Income possibilities in highsec should be close to zero. why should my income be near zero when i choose to play in high sec like other's choose to play in low sec, WH space and 0.0 ??
Pick one: * Why should anyone live anywhere risky if there's no reward for taking said risks * Why should people contribute to the isk in-currency if they don't contribute in spending it * Think about all us bittervets who had no missions or incursions, and started with ~50k sp/could barely even kill rats in highsec, we need to hate on people getting free isk, obviously, as back then we were all forced to go to low- or null to make *any* kind of income * I'm an economics major, 4 years, what about you? shiptoastin' liek a baws |
equcin meey
camdy and Co. inc.
3
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
so your have a bit of paper to say your an economics major well congratz on going to uni for 4 years or so.
so lets look at your response i asked one question and you couldn't give me an answer but you asked me afew questions then throw your bit of paper about to say "that i know it all" almost like if your trying to scare me into submission and that your a bitter old vet which has not answered my question.at least the OP can write a their view point with a clear and to the point answer.
now i'll ask my question again why should my income be near zero? oh you should know what zero means after all your an economics major,now if you can not give me a answer then you and your bit paper are worthless support the Lego Rifter-á
http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/11619 |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
30
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Misanth wrote:* I'm an economics major, 4 years, what about you? Probably *not* a good idea to brag about that.
Start a corp and do it yourself. You'll fail, but you'll enjoy failing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
55
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
equcin meey wrote:so your have a bit of paper to say your an economics major well congratz on going to uni for 4 years or so.
so lets look at your response i asked one question and you couldn't give me an answer but you asked me afew questions then throw your bit of paper about to say "that i know it all" almost like if your trying to scare me into submission and that your a bitter old vet which has not answered my question.at least the OP can write a their view point with a clear and to the point answer.
now i'll ask my question again why should my income be near zero? oh you should know what zero means after all your an economics major,now if you can not give me a answer then you and your bit paper are worthless Because being able to reside in high sec with near-zero risk and make similar amounts of money to people residing in low/null facing moderate-high risk is not balanced.
Fixing this would involve either reducing high-sec income, or boost null/low income. We don't want to contribute to massive inflation so the logical choice is to nerf high-sec income
Now why don't you tell me why you as a high-sec player should be able to earn the same amount of ISK as I do, when you are near iinvulnerable and I am at constant and pervasive threat of expensive death. |
Thgil Goldcore
Advenus Classem
321
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Posted - 2012.03.27 06:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Even though I generally operate out of highsec and doing so would hurt my income... I am on board with this. Encourage people to go out into new areas of space and meet new people (and mabye even get blown up by them). Encourages people to work together more than mission running does. Basically it helps push people into the funner parts of the game. Since Solo mission runners rarely stay subbed forever... and they dont go to fanfest. |
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equcin meey
camdy and Co. inc.
3
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Posted - 2012.03.27 07:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote: Because being able to reside in high sec with near-zero risk and make similar amounts of money to people residing in low/null facing moderate-high risk is not balanced.
Fixing this would involve either reducing high-sec income, or boost null/low income. We don't want to contribute to massive inflation so the logical choice is to nerf high-sec income
Now why don't you tell me why you as a high-sec player should be able to earn the same amount of ISK as I do, when you are near iinvulnerable and I am at constant and pervasive threat of expensive death.
see Misanth this is how you do a construction reply with an answer instead of a bitter old vet that seem to hate all that the current game has now but is still happy to play hmm oh and waving a bit of paper to say your did something.
i don't believe i should earn more isk than low sec,WH space an 0.0 but i also don't believe i should earn near zero and neither is high sec near zero risk. support the Lego Rifter-á
http://lego.cuusoo.com/ideas/view/11619 |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
441
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Posted - 2012.03.27 07:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Copine Callmeknau wrote: Because being able to reside in high sec with near-zero risk and make similar amounts of money to people residing in low/null facing moderate-high risk is not balanced.
They shown that Jita is the system in game where the most ships get popped. Does it mean people should get substantial rewards in there? Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
80
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Posted - 2012.03.27 07:21:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm not sure a reduction in bounties would really do much to handle inflation (seriously we had a 1300% increase in the money supply and 24% price deflation). On the other hand, when it doesn't work it'll eventually make a nice economics paper.
Go ahead and do it, just don't do it again (and again, and again) if it doesn't work the first time. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
20
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Posted - 2012.03.27 07:26:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bounty changes is only a short term fix, and honestly would be more detrimental to the real players and not the botters/alt farmers.
Mechanics are what need to change. The removal of scripted bost spawns, would be huge. Increasing to the new AI would be huge. High value pve more that requires fleets would be huge. Get it so people want/need teams for sanctums maybe? Remove the scripted missions and incursions that allow for the specialized farming fleets and fits maybe? Personally, an isk hit would be really hard on me, I am not a rich person in eve by any extent. When I need isk for war, a hit would hurt, a challenge change would not.
Suggestion, rewards be a bandaid as you bring in better active play content. I fully understand turning off the Isk faucet, more engaging play will bring more players. But just be sure to replace it with more meaningful content. Mission running format is way to old. Incursion combat is awesome, but the scripting is only reason it is an isk faucet. |
Kira Vanachura
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.03.27 08:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Prices are still lower than before. We don't need that emergency button pushed - yet. |
JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
75
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Posted - 2012.03.27 08:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
equcin meey wrote: now i'll ask my question again why should my income be near zero? oh you should know what zero means after all your an economics major,now if you can not give me a answer then you and your bit paper are worthless
Your income shouldnt be near zero it should just be proper to sustain risk vs reward balance, a design upon this game was builded
In hi sec risk is lower than in other space thus income should be lower.
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JitaPriceChecker2
State War Academy Caldari State
75
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 08:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote: Because being able to reside in high sec with near-zero risk and make similar amounts of money to people residing in low/null facing moderate-high risk is not balanced.
They shown that Jita is the system in game where the most ships get popped. Does it mean people should get substantial rewards in there?
Jita has the best rewards in game it is main trading hub ......
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Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
407
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Posted - 2012.03.27 08:45:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hisec - low risk - low income, it isnt hard to understand.
Yes the isk faucet (more like a gushing torrent really) should be slowed, knocking 10% off all npcs is a start however, how about this, since risk should equal reward.
Nullsec and wormholes: rewards at 90% of current amount. Lowsec: rewards at 75% current amount. Hisec: rewards at 50% current amount.
I know its gonna make teh isk kings of hisec cross, but thats how I see it shoudl be - low risk, low reward.
ALL rewards, not just rat bounties, so LP, incursions, bounties, everything.
The only thing that shouldnt be really brought down is mining, whihc in hisec is already a prett badly paid job. Except Ice, someting needs changing with ice simply due to the amount of ice bots in hisec. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
80
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:Nullsec and wormholes: rewards at 90% of current amount. Lowsec: rewards at 75% current amount. Hisec: rewards at 50% current amount.
Ya those are actually pretty good numbers. And I mission in high sec to fund my pvp. 10% reduction is really nothing. When they added in 11% NPC corp tax a lot of people made 1 man corps but a ton still stayed so if you want to make a change it's gotta be a bigger number.
The problem is that level 4 rewards have been so high for so long that a lot of people solely run missions all day for isk. The worry is that a lot of these people will quit. I don't think CCP has the balls for a short term dip in subs in order to improve the game. |
Nex Onerios
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
You said that there is no reason to go in Low/Null sec but don't forget these tech moons (and all the others) for example. But yeah most of the bigger Aliance don't let the base grunt see the color of this money (RMT ?). Alliance wide Null sec reward A LOT more ISK than high sec missions / Incursions !
If you want to reduce ISK faucet start with the tech moons ! |
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Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
56
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Posted - 2012.03.27 09:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Copine Callmeknau wrote: Because being able to reside in high sec with near-zero risk and make similar amounts of money to people residing in low/null facing moderate-high risk is not balanced.
They shown that Jita is the system in game where the most ships get popped. Does it mean people should get substantial rewards in there? Maybe, if the number that were popped was a substantial percentage of the traffic through the system.
Risk isn't about ship death alone, a more accurate representation would be ship death per capita |
Zhade Lezte
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.03.27 09:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Nex Onerios wrote:You said that there is no reason to go in Low/Null sec but don't forget these tech moons (and all the others) for example. But yeah most of the bigger Aliance don't let the base grunt see the color of this money (RMT ?). Alliance wide Null sec reward A LOT more ISK than high sec missions / Incursions !
If you want to reduce ISK faucet start with the tech moons !
Tech moons are getting nerfed, stop beating the dead horse. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
411
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nex Onerios wrote:You said that there is no reason to go in Low/Null sec but don't forget these tech moons (and all the others) for example. But yeah most of the bigger Aliance don't let the base grunt see the color of this money (RMT ?). Alliance wide Null sec reward A LOT more ISK than high sec missions / Incursions !
If you want to reduce ISK faucet start with the tech moons !
As a ceo in a large nullsec (and tech owning) alliance, but not part of its high command and therefore with no access to teh tech isk, I can assume you actually arnt a nullsec player and believe alot of propoganda about nullsec and tech moons.
Tech moons produce too much isk, everyone knows this and moons should be more balanced. However in teh CFC there are auditors who will come to your alliance and check all the accounts if there is any suspicion its leaders are embezzling or missusing funds.
At my level (pvp corp ceo) I see where the isk is being used, sov costs, supers provided for corps, srf funds, capital ship assistance and a dozen other places, in FA the accounts are transparent, as I believe the rest of the cfc's to be.
A dozen tech moons will produce many billions of isk a month, however, the above costs soak up ALL that isk in a large alliance and is used (in the cfc at least) for teh benefit of everyone, right down to the frontline grunt, in fact the largest part goes to supporting him on the frontline. Remmeber those billions are being spent across many dozens of systems and many thousands of players. Unlike say the hisec incursion runner who can easily pocket 20 billion isk a month if he wants to, just for himself. The isk in alliances flows, teh isk in incursions and hisec isk farming doesnt flow, it sits in fat wallets that just get fatter. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
27
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:Nex Onerios wrote:You said that there is no reason to go in Low/Null sec but don't forget these tech moons (and all the others) for example. But yeah most of the bigger Aliance don't let the base grunt see the color of this money (RMT ?). Alliance wide Null sec reward A LOT more ISK than high sec missions / Incursions !
If you want to reduce ISK faucet start with the tech moons ! As a ceo in a large nullsec (and tech owning) alliance, but not part of its high command and therefore with no access to teh tech isk, I can assume you actually arnt a nullsec player and believe alot of propoganda about nullsec and tech moons. Tech moons produce too much isk, everyone knows this and moons should be more balanced. However in teh CFC there are auditors who will come to your alliance and check all the accounts if there is any suspicion its leaders are embezzling or missusing funds. At my level (pvp corp ceo) I see where the isk is being used, sov costs, supers provided for corps, srf funds, capital ship assistance and a dozen other places, in FA the accounts are transparent, as I believe the rest of the cfc's to be. A dozen tech moons will produce many billions of isk a month, however, the above costs soak up ALL that isk in a large alliance and is used (in the cfc at least) for teh benefit of everyone, right down to the frontline grunt, in fact the largest part goes to supporting him on the frontline. Remmeber those billions are being spent across many dozens of systems and many thousands of players. Unlike say the hisec incursion runner who can easily pocket 20 billion isk a month if he wants to, just for himself. The isk in alliances flows, teh isk in incursions and hisec isk farming doesnt flow, it sits in fat wallets that just get fatter.
Very true. I don't know about other alliances, but corps and alliances I have been in have very strict and in place ship replacement and alliance protocols. The specialty and high cost primaries have to be kept in steady supply and arent cheap. If alliance isnt able to replace or somehow keep peeps in the fight, wont be a fight for much longer. |
Haikato Saraki
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 09:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quote: now i'll ask my question again why should my income be near zero? oh you should know what zero means after all your an economics major,now if you can not give me a answer then you and your bit paper are worthless
The sky isnt falling. Your highsec income wont be near zero it will be 10% less than it is now. If -10% of your current income = nearly 0 then your doing something wrong or need to go back to school and learn some basic math.
Quote:Nullsec and wormholes: rewards at 90% of current amount. Lowsec: rewards at 75% current amount. Hisec: rewards at 50% current amount.
We can talk about re-balanceing latter. This is about the isk that is made every time someone shoots a rat. (For the record, most of the isk comes from nulsec. Just saying.) source - http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9115
Quote:If you want to reduce ISK faucet start with the tech moons !
Perhaps the economic major could explain to you the difference between a money generator and a money mover. Tech moons do not MAKE isk. They MOVE isk from the hands of people who want moon goo to those of people who have moon goo.
Every time you kill a rat, you create isk out of nothing. Before you killed that rat, that isk did not exsist in game. THIS is what is causing inflation, NOT moon goo. Get with the program.
Look, ideally CCP could update the AI and update the spawn systems and update all the pve content in EVE as a whole... but lets face reality here. That is a monolithic task. This situation, while not a sucking chest wound as "he-who-shall-not-be-named" (I actually just cant spell his name) might have put it, but it is fast becoming a problem and something needs to be done about it. A global 10% reduction is the most immediately obvious place to begin, after that we can address the rest of the problems that have led up to this moment. Risk/Reward, Highsec/Lowsec/Nulsec, incursions and sanctums, all these are issues that should be addressed AFTER an income adjustment. |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
110
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Posted - 2012.03.29 19:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:I'm not sure a reduction in bounties would really do much to handle inflation (seriously we had a 1300% increase in the money supply and 24% price deflation). On the other hand, when it doesn't work it'll eventually make a nice economics paper.
Go ahead and do it, just don't do it again (and again, and again) if it doesn't work the first time.
We didn't have anywhere near a 1300% increase in the money supply after you factor out the perma ban accounts, the unubs, etc Still I have not hear annoucement 1 of what form the new or increased ISK sinks will take the form of. I'd like to see a new 10% concord implants costing 2.5 billion ISKies and 500k lp as an example of a new ISKy sinks any other ideas? Like what would the NULL SEC & wormhole ISK sinks be wormhole stabilizer BPC's being offered by the pirate faction stores such as Sansha? And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge, With Ate by his side come hot from hell, Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,That this foul deed... -á |
Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
3
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Posted - 2012.03.29 19:24:00 -
[27] - Quote
they need to encourage risk more, create new low sec options. Hi sec is decent. Isk doesn't come from nowhere. Every isk in eve was from a mission or a bounty or some npc action. On the other hand if i titan is destroyed every isk ever earned that was spent on that titan is now completely gone. |
Capacity gear
Stella Contego Security Stella Stargate Security
21
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Posted - 2012.03.29 19:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Haikato Saraki wrote:
Perhaps the economic major could explain to you the difference between a money generator and a money mover. Tech moons do not MAKE isk. They MOVE isk from the hands of people who want moon goo to those of people who have moon goo.
Every time you kill a rat, you create isk out of nothing. Before you killed that rat, that isk did not exsist in game. THIS is what is causing inflation, NOT moon goo. Get with the program.
erm,. tech moons don't make isk? are you nuts?
sure its not a bounty prize for the goo,. but to say they don't generate isk is a gross simplification beyond ignorance
you sir are a buffoon!
edit: thinking about it you are right in one way, however say EVE re-set tomorrow,. all isk,. all assets, and all rats were removed,.. where does isk come from? selling stuf? where does the isk come from to buy items? |
adam smash
University of Caille Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2012.03.29 19:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
all you null bears and your risk vs reward...
Please... you rat in ******* titans how much risk do you REALLY have?
You can run your plexs, making billions all you need to do is watch local for anyone NOT a blue. You can rat... with HUGE rewards, + officer, faction spawns... in HS... we get what... 10k isk rats in high?
incrusions again... in low/null you run when you see a nuet... in HS you never know when someone will come in and jam you out... and you also make more isk...
I mean lul wtf...
Mining is the best... with all the ganking in high... your 20 times safter in null/low as... o ****... again the SECOND you see a red/nuet in local you know your in danger... however again in high... you always have the nuets in local with you... you never know if one is gona be a ganker or not.
If ccp wants to keep killing eve... sure make it even harder to make money... thus buy ships, mods, etc... make the game more like a job and more people then quit.
If ccp wants to make HS make less isk... well then make it safer, lower concord times, etc...
And yep this is from a HS ganker...
To say highsec is safer than your null homes?
If anything lowsec needs a HUGE isk buff...
Can't build supers, can be attacked by them... very hard to point.. and destory...
Risk of being in low seems WAY higher than the reward...
NERF FIGHTER BOMBERS IN LOW. |
Avila Cracko
275
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 19:29:00 -
[30] - Quote
I don't think that 10% is enough. Reduce it 15% so that you are sure it helps but through all the board. Once 15% is better then two times 10%, and first time people will bite their tongue and will not yell much but second time - riots, here we are. And increase taxes on all things, especially for changing the price of market orders!!! truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. |
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