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Zircon Dasher
102
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Posted - 2012.03.30 14:38:00 -
[61] - Quote
According to Diagoras:
13,865 characters got an incursion payout in Jan for a grand total of 8.9T ISK (8.1T after taxes).
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
457
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Posted - 2012.03.30 14:56:00 -
[62] - Quote
First thing to do is be patient.
The drone region changes, the new crimewatch, the new wardec system all will contribute to the price inflation picture. The more mineral prices go up, the more people are inclined to do something other than shoot rats. Less people shooting rats means less ISK entering the system. We need to see where it shakes out instead of going into panic mode and hitting every button on the dash board in the hopes that turning on the radio will apply the brakes.
I do agree that reducing bounties is part of the solution, tighten the faucets globally, versus making the sinks larger or more of them randomly across the game just to say there are more sinks. Sinks are a "cost" to someone, people tend to avoid costs. Creating new sinks for mission runners/incursions/WH Blue-Loot would likely take the form of some new module or "stuff". This just trades one form of inflation for another, and in the end will contribute to the deflation side of the picture. So, reduction of bounties across the board will work better. Net income of ISK generation via rat destruction will decrease relative to other activities.
We also have to see more what is ahead in Dust, Dust may turn into a giant ISK vacuum for all we know. |
Jed Mosley
Aideron Robotics Darkmatter Initiative
19
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Posted - 2012.03.30 15:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
Kira Vanachura wrote:Prices are still lower than before. We don't need that emergency button pushed - yet. What are you smoking? Drake has gone up by about 15mill isk and the Abaddon roughly 50-75 mill isk Everything is going up. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
42
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Posted - 2012.03.30 15:14:00 -
[64] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:First thing to do is be patient.
The drone region changes, the new crimewatch, the new wardec system all will contribute to the price inflation picture. The more mineral prices go up, the more people are inclined to do something other than shoot rats. Less people shooting rats means less ISK entering the system. We need to see where it shakes out instead of going into panic mode and hitting every button on the dash board in the hopes that turning on the radio will apply the brakes.
I do agree that reducing bounties is part of the solution, tighten the faucets globally, versus making the sinks larger or more of them randomly across the game just to say there are more sinks. Sinks are a "cost" to someone, people tend to avoid costs. Creating new sinks for mission runners/incursions/WH Blue-Loot would likely take the form of some new module or "stuff". This just trades one form of inflation for another, and in the end will contribute to the deflation side of the picture. So, reduction of bounties across the board will work better. Net income of ISK generation via rat destruction will decrease relative to other activities.
We also have to see more what is ahead in Dust, Dust may turn into a giant ISK vacuum for all we know.
Well said.
I Think CCP should go slow, and for another reason as well. The Titan nerf.
After the last anom change, Titan pilots learn to from the Forsaken Hub anomalies. I've see Tit pilots make 300 mil an hour doing that (one Ragnarok pilot I know was doing even better, 125 mil ticks. geez). They probably won't be able to do that after the nerf.
Bounties are individual income, unlike moon goo ect ect. Nerfing bounties might be needed, but as a null sec player I'd just like to remind CCP of what happened to null sec the last time they nerf player income with that 1st anom nerf... |
Zircon Dasher
102
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Posted - 2012.03.30 15:32:00 -
[65] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Bounties are individual income, unlike moon goo ect ect. Nerfing bounties might be needed, but as a null sec player I'd just like to remind CCP of what happened to null sec the last time they nerf player income with that 1st anom nerf...
Players moving from null to high is not necessarily a bad thing though. |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
111
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Posted - 2012.03.30 16:02:00 -
[66] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:According to Diagoras:
13,865 characters got an incursion payout in Jan for a grand total of 8.9T ISK (8.1T after taxes).
Wormhole blue loot exceeded that & wormhole nano ribbons abolutlely dwarfed that. Bounties amounted to 30 friggin' Trillion bounties before Incursions should be nerfed if you REALLY want to do jack about inflation!!!
And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge, With Ate by his side come hot from hell, Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,That this foul deed... -á |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
111
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Posted - 2012.03.30 16:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Adunh Slavy wrote:
We also have to see more what is ahead in Dust, Dust may turn into a giant ISK vacuum for all we know.
Well said. After the last anom change, Titan pilots learn to from the Forsaken Hub anomalies. I've see Tit pilots make 300 mil an hour doing that (one Ragnarok pilot I know was doing even better, 125 mil ticks. geez). They probably won't be able to do that after the nerf. Bounties are individual income, unlike moon goo ect ect. Nerfing bounties might be needed, but as a null sec player I'd just like to remind CCP of what happened to null sec the last time they nerf player income with that 1st anom nerf...
Wait a sec Titan pilots were making 300M isk/hour & now they are bitching about Incursions that make 1/2 that in hi sec??? WHAT A BUNCH OF SNIVILING WHINEY HYPOCRITES!!!
TITANS are SOO much more frigging SHINEY then anything an Incursion pilot could ever fly! Talking about out of proportion wallets & ISK making that deserves NERFs And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge, With Ate by his side come hot from hell, Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,That this foul deed... -á |
darmwand
Repo.
32
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Posted - 2012.03.30 16:35:00 -
[68] - Quote
Being a friendly gentleman from low-sec I don't really understand the concept of "making ISK" rather than continuously being broke
However
I think one thing to keep in mind when nerfing high-sec income is that, in order to fight those fancy new wardecs of yours, people will probably need moneys. Especially the more risk-adverse players that (I assume) populate high-sec will be even less willing to try out what counts as PvP over there if you take away their ISK. And I think we all (or many of us) agree that getting more people into PvP is A Good Thing(tm).
Just a thought. darmwand Repossession Agent http://www.repo-corp.net/ Recruitment is OPEN |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
111
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Posted - 2012.03.30 16:40:00 -
[69] - Quote
darmwand wrote:Being a friendly gentleman from low-sec I don't really understand the concept of "making ISK" rather than continuously being broke
Just a thought.
Friendly & living in NULL?? There's whyour broke... I thought only blood thirsty arse hats live there :P Sounds like YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG if you are broke & friendly in NULL And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge, With Ate by his side come hot from hell, Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,That this foul deed... -á |
darmwand
Repo.
32
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Posted - 2012.03.30 16:41:00 -
[70] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Friendly & living in NULL?? There's whyour broke... I thought only blood thirsty arse hats live there :P Sounds like YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG if you are broke & friendly in NULL
low, not null darmwand Repossession Agent http://www.repo-corp.net/ Recruitment is OPEN |
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Ildryn
X Inc.
32
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:37:00 -
[71] - Quote
Vanguard One wrote:equcin meey wrote:Now why don't you tell me why you as a high-sec player should be able to earn the same amount of ISK as I do, when you are near iinvulnerable and I am at constant and pervasive threat of expensive death. By the same token bounties should be nerfed in-null sec too, where the risks are similar to high-sec, especially in the major alliances controlled territories.
Any security they enjoy is enforced by hundreds possibly thousands of people. The danger is being removed by real players.
High sec mission runners on the majority are doing it solo or with and alt (see solo).
Wrap your head around that.
End Incursions!!! Reduce high sec bounties!!! Everyone kill tards like Vanguard One until they can see past their wallet!!! |
Savage Creampuff
Ion Corp. Citex Alliance
3
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:48:00 -
[72] - Quote
lets remove bounties completely and replace them with some sort of loot. maybe loot that can be refined into minerals. just trying to think outside the box here... |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
96
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:19:00 -
[73] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:According to Diagoras:
13,865 characters got an incursion payout in Jan for a grand total of 8.9T ISK (8.1T after taxes).
Interesting, i wasn't aware there were than many. Edit: I fail at earning isk so I have to ask, how good/bad is 642mill isk/month considered? |
Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
522
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:30:00 -
[74] - Quote
If you can make 50M isk in (insert amount of time) to buy a ship that costs 50M isk, then you get a ship.
Alternatively....
You can make 100M isk in (insert amount of time) to buy that same ship now costing 100M ISK, you still get the same ship.
It's the same damn ship, and the same amount of time.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
460
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: Wait a sec Titan pilots were making 300M isk/hour & now they are bitching about Incursions that make 1/2 that in hi sec??? WHAT A BUNCH OF SNIVILING WHINEY HYPOCRITES!!!
TITANS are SOO much more frigging SHINEY then anything an Incursion pilot could ever fly! Talking about out of proportion wallets & ISK making that deserves NERFs
Everyone knows you are doing your best to protect incursion income. You have been for weeks now. Time to step outside your own selfish wants and join the conversation. |
Stella SGP
64
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:42:00 -
[76] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:As a ceo in a large nullsec (and tech owning) alliance, but not part of its high command and therefore with no access to teh tech isk, I can assume you actually arnt a nullsec player and believe alot of propoganda about nullsec and tech moons.
Tech moons produce too much isk, everyone knows this and moons should be more balanced. However in teh CFC there are auditors who will come to your alliance and check all the accounts if there is any suspicion its leaders are embezzling or missusing funds.
At my level (pvp corp ceo) I see where the isk is being used, sov costs, supers provided for corps, srf funds, capital ship assistance and a dozen other places, in FA the accounts are transparent, as I believe the rest of the cfc's to be.
A dozen tech moons will produce many billions of isk a month, however, the above costs soak up ALL that isk in a large alliance and is used (in the cfc at least) for teh benefit of everyone, right down to the frontline grunt, in fact the largest part goes to supporting him on the frontline. Remmeber those billions are being spent across many dozens of systems and many thousands of players. Unlike say the hisec incursion runner who can easily pocket 20 billion isk a month if he wants to, just for himself. The isk in alliances flows, teh isk in incursions and hisec isk farming doesnt flow, it sits in fat wallets that just get fatter. At least now we know why you as a ceo in nullsec is stuck as only a pvp corp ceo and not a part of its high command and have no access to the tech isk...
I've highlighted the points of interest for you. |
Azureite
Troodonts
6
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:51:00 -
[77] - Quote
I concur with the OP, rat bounties should be decreased. |
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
36
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:54:00 -
[78] - Quote
Haikato Saraki wrote:Just do it. Dont wait for it to become a problem, just do it now, or soon, or whenever, just don't save the option as some kind of "save the universe" button because by the time its that big of a problem it will be too late.
10% hit to all bounty's will be an unpopular move, I get that, but consider this. You talked at fanfest about shifting more and more NPC services into the hands of players. I believe something along the lines of "your all grown up now, you can run jita" was said. Well that's great, Im excited for that! But the more NPC's you put out of a job the more isk-sinks you plug up.
So don't wait for the waves of isk to roll in once gun-mining is fixed, just do it now. 10% will not hurt the individual pilot that much and the sooner you do "balance incomes" the sooner we'll all get over it.
Alternatively, we could switch it from ISK to raw inputs. But I see to problems with this:
1.Only Null Bears deserve access to raw inputs.
2.It doesn't punish High Sec.
So really, my idea, while it would actually work, is a non-starter from go. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
460
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:02:00 -
[79] - Quote
Savage Creampuff wrote:lets remove bounties completely and replace them with some sort of loot. maybe loot that can be refined into minerals. just trying to think outside the box here...
Loot that can be traded in for security standings, Faction standings? - rat tags. Also items that can be smuggled and new mechanics and reasons to smuggle.
Smuggling allows players to profit while possibly loosing faction standing, rat tags allows them to recover faction standing. This will consume the rat tags. Regular piracy consumes security status, buying security standing consumes the rat tags as well.
This could perhaps create a condition where normal game play consumes some arbitrary value, standings, and to repair that number one needs to buy and trade in these tags. Modification of how much the tags apply to the standings, would allow CCP to have a global valve upon the value of the tags, with out having to mess around with the drop rates too much, x rank rat = x rank tag, done. In this way, assuming enough tags are widely held, standings can commoditized and consumed. |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
111
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:04:00 -
[80] - Quote
Adunh Slavy wrote:DarthNefarius wrote: Wait a sec Titan pilots were making 300M isk/hour & now they are bitching about Incursions that make 1/2 that in hi sec??? WHAT A BUNCH OF SNIVILING WHINEY HYPOCRITES!!!
TITANS are SOO much more frigging SHINEY then anything an Incursion pilot could ever fly! Talking about out of proportion wallets & ISK making that deserves NERFs
Everyone knows you are doing your best to protect incursion income. You have been for weeks now. Time to step outside your own selfish wants and join the conversation.
And everyone knows the ral reason for inflation isn't Incursions butt the other bigger faucets. Balance the 2 bigger faucets before or at the same time as mine. Peeps been attacking my home for months I have every right to tell them the truth is really that non incursion factors spiked plex & prices more by multiple factors
And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge, With Ate by his side come hot from hell, Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,That this foul deed... -á |
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
345
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:06:00 -
[81] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:(throws a lit match into a room filled with powder kegs)
Why does CONCORD / empires pay bounties on rats in non-empire space? Maybe those rats need to drop tags/tokens that have to be hauled back to empire space to turn in for an ISK reward? Or other loot like the "blue" loot in w-space which NPCs will purchase for ISK.
I am cool with this, as it would create opportunities for new professions based more on player interaction than the current system (e.g. middle men buying tags from ratters in 0.0 and shipping them to empire).
Tie it in with the idea Greyscale proposed at Fanfest for allowing gankers to buy back sec status with NPC tags and things start to get interesting. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
111
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:11:00 -
[82] - Quote
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:Haikato Saraki wrote:Just do it. 10% hit to all bounty's will be an unpopular move, I get that, but consider this. So don't wait for the waves of isk to roll in once gun-mining is fixed, just do it now. 10% will not hurt the individual pilot that much and the sooner you do "balance incomes" the sooner we'll all get over it. Alternatively, we could switch it from ISK to raw inputs. But I see two problems with this: 1.Only Null Bears deserve access to raw inputs. 2.It doesn't punish High Sec. So really, my idea, while it would actually work, is a non-starter from go.
1)Null bears mining it the deep risk free SOV's don't deserve these monpolies 2)Why punish HI sec? NULL seccers deserve all the spankings HI sec isfilled with the good guys
Yep non starter And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge, With Ate by his side come hot from hell, Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,That this foul deed... -á |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
54
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:16:00 -
[83] - Quote
Im carebear and i no it. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
460
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:26:00 -
[84] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: And everyone knows the ral reason for inflation isn't Incursions butt the other bigger faucets. Balance the 2 bigger faucets before or at the same time as mine.
They all need balance of one form or another. Incursions contribute to the monetary inflation, this can't be argued against. Adding 1 ISK by trading some NPC good adds to it as well. No one activity is immune in this conversation. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
484
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
Stella SGP wrote:Rico Minali wrote:As a ceo in a large nullsec (and tech owning) alliance, but not part of its high command and therefore with no access to teh tech isk, I can assume you actually arnt a nullsec player and believe alot of propoganda about nullsec and tech moons.
Tech moons produce too much isk, everyone knows this and moons should be more balanced. However in teh CFC there are auditors who will come to your alliance and check all the accounts if there is any suspicion its leaders are embezzling or missusing funds.
At my level (pvp corp ceo) I see where the isk is being used, sov costs, supers provided for corps, srf funds, capital ship assistance and a dozen other places, in FA the accounts are transparent, as I believe the rest of the cfc's to be.
A dozen tech moons will produce many billions of isk a month, however, the above costs soak up ALL that isk in a large alliance and is used (in the cfc at least) for teh benefit of everyone, right down to the frontline grunt, in fact the largest part goes to supporting him on the frontline. Remmeber those billions are being spent across many dozens of systems and many thousands of players. Unlike say the hisec incursion runner who can easily pocket 20 billion isk a month if he wants to, just for himself. The isk in alliances flows, teh isk in incursions and hisec isk farming doesnt flow, it sits in fat wallets that just get fatter. At least now we know why you as a ceo in nullsec is stuck as only a pvp corp ceo and not a part of its high command and have no access to the tech isk... I've highlighted the points of interest for you.
Are you as stupid as you appear? I dont need to have points in my post highlighted to me, I know what I wrote and I know why I wrote them. I dont want to be part of any alliance high command, looking after my corp is far more important to me. So, woudld you like to explain your post? Because basically it doesnt say anything.
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Frederick Sanger
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:47:00 -
[86] - Quote
Mina Sebiestar wrote:Im carebear and i no it.
Now who can argue with that. |
Stella SGP
64
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:49:00 -
[87] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:Are you as stupid as you appear? I dont need to have points in my post highlighted to me, I know what I wrote and I know why I wrote them. I dont want to be part of any alliance high command, looking after my corp is far more important to me. So, woudld you like to explain your post? Because basically it doesnt say anything.
And your post brings redundent and irrelevant opinions in regards to the OP as well. Thread is about ISK faucets, not about how moons "create" ISK and how its used.
Since you know what you wrote and why you wrote them... care to explain how moons inject ISK into the economy? |
Zircon Dasher
102
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 22:05:00 -
[88] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:According to Diagoras
13,865 characters got an incursion payout in Jan for a grand total of 8.9T ISK (8.1T after taxes)
Interesting, i wasn't aware there were than many Edit: I fail at earning isk so I have to ask, how good/bad is 642mill isk/month considered?
It is roughly the same as making 32m/hour doing 1hr of PVE 5d a week
Unfortunately the 642m/mo figure assumes that the ISK is distributed equally. It isn't.
Dr. E said that the majority of the payouts go to a relatively small % of the entire incursion running community. There was no mention about why the distribution may be this way, but it seems reasonable to assume the disparity stems from site competition. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
96
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 22:28:00 -
[89] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:According to Diagoras
13,865 characters got an incursion payout in Jan for a grand total of 8.9T ISK (8.1T after taxes)
Interesting, i wasn't aware there were than many Edit: I fail at earning isk so I have to ask, how good/bad is 642mill isk/month considered? It is roughly the same as making 32m/hour doing 1hr of PVE 5d a week Unfortunately the 642m/mo figure assumes that the ISK is distributed equally. It isn't. Dr. E said that the majority of the payouts go to a relatively small % of the entire incursion running community. There was no mention about why the distribution may be this way, but it seems reasonable to assume the disparity stems from site competition. Good point, I know I'm on the low side of that average, but considering fleets I'm in aren't running all Pirate BS's and I don't run that often, it's to be expected. |
DarthNefarius
Ssssansha'S Deathhead Einsatzgruppen
111
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 22:28:00 -
[90] - Quote
Zircon Dasher wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Zircon Dasher wrote:According to Diagoras
13,865 characters got an incursion payout in Jan for a grand total of 8.9T ISK (8.1T after taxes)
Interesting, i wasn't aware there were than many Edit: I fail at earning isk so I have to ask, how good/bad is 642mill isk/month considered? It is roughly the same as making 32m/hour doing 1hr of PVE 5d a week Unfortunately the 642m/mo figure assumes that the ISK is distributed equally. It isn't. Dr. E said that the majority of the payouts go to a relatively small % of the entire incursion running community. There was no mention about why the distribution may be this way, but it seems reasonable to assume the disparity stems from site competition.
You want to see the smallest distributions look to how few the moon goo faucet's procedes ends up!!! At least while the mining faucets end up in mostly BOT's pockets some of it goes else where not sooo with goo ( or nano ribbons for that matter ) And Caesar's spirit, raging for revenge, With Ate by his side come hot from hell, Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war,That this foul deed... -á |
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