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Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
123
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
Days before I had a CCP Fanfest speech to give, I got drunk and accidently my powerpoint, then I got drunk on the day and presented the powerpoint, lots of laughs were had by all cept the dude I insulted.
I don't remember any of it.
I'm really sorry - which is why I premeditated it and did it.
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
430
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
THIS THREAD IS GOING PLACES |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
143
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xython wrote:THIS THREAD IS GOING PLACES
NO! ITS STAYING RIGHT HERE! |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
123
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
I have great hopes for my thread, I'm thinking in a year I'll look back and go...
Gee I'm sorry, I really apologise I acted like such an ass, right before I hit "POST"
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
437
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think the powerpoint was indeed cleared and prepaired and would be a legitimate/uncontroversial piece.
I highly doubt he had planned on saying what he did. He probably just planned on using it as yet another example of space tears. Which would have been fine.
But hey, at least you got him outta the CSM. All it cost was a suicidal guy's private life being smeared across the public stage. A good trade off i guess huh? Served the moral good, right? "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Trolls Troll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
36
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote: But hey, at least you got him outta the CSM. All it cost was a suicidal guy's private life being smeared across the public stage. A good trade off i guess huh? Served the moral good, right?
Yeah, because Mittani didn't do that all on his own..
gg Terminal |
Princess Nana
Hedion University Amarr Empire
55
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
I was the King of Space until I took a few Jager Bombs to the Brain and had to Wiz. |
Poetic Stanziel
Major Kong Freight
782
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:Days before I had a CCP Fanfest speech to give, I got drunk and accidently my powerpoint, then I got drunk on the day and presented the powerpoint, lots of laughs were had by all cept the dude I insulted.
I don't remember any of it.
I'm really sorry - which is why I premeditated it and did it. Let's clear some things up.
Yes, he made his powerpoint presentation. But the dude was anonymous at that point. The Mittani yelping out his name to the crowd, that was off-the-cuff and spontaneous, not premeditated at all.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
123
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
So your saying we'd be better serving the moral wellbeing of humanity by leaving these kinds of complete fucktards in these minor positions of power so they can ego on some more to the point of total degredation of other people?
THAT would serve the moral good?
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Singeabooty Raj
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
268
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Princess Nana wrote:I was the King of Space until I took a few Jager Bombs to the Brain and had to Wiz. Sins of a Solar Spymaster 77: I Wiz the King of Space
Black Man with Goggles |
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Trolls Troll
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
38
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:Days before I had a CCP Fanfest speech to give, I got drunk and accidently my powerpoint, then I got drunk on the day and presented the powerpoint, lots of laughs were had by all cept the dude I insulted.
I don't remember any of it.
I'm really sorry - which is why I premeditated it and did it. Let's clear some things up. Yes, he made his powerpoint presentation. But the dude was anonymous at that point. The Mittani yelping out his name to the crowd, that was off-the-cuff and spontaneous, not premeditated at all.
It doesn't make it any better. |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
437
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
Trolls Troll wrote:Yeah, because Mittani didn't do that all on his own.. gg Terminal There was a thread about it after he said it. Nobody gave a ****. The subject was dropped.
Then mittani was confirmed for CSM and whoooo-**** its suddenly an outrage. I can link at least 15 other people who have directly told others to kill themselves. I could link probably hundreds if i cared to search past page 2 of google results. What Mittani said isnt anything new. The only thing new is how much you all pretended to care about Wis after you realized you could use his situation to dethrone Mittani.
Fact is, the mittani haters abused the poor guy far more then goons did. Hell, he never would have known it even happened if you didnt go trotting off and pasting it to him HOURS after your 'outrage' started. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
124
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Trolls Troll wrote:Yeah, because Mittani didn't do that all on his own.. gg Terminal There was a thread about it after he said it. Nobody gave a ****. The subject was dropped. Then mittani was confirmed for CSM and whoooo-**** its suddenly an outrage. I can link at least 15 other people who have directly told others to kill themselves. I could link probably hundreds if i cared to search past page 2 of google results. What Mittani said isnt anything new. The only thing new is how much you all pretended to care about Wis after you realized you could use his situation to dethrone Mittani.
How many of them stood up on a live broadcast panel to thousands of people and did it?
This is just a blatant act of the immature nature we have all known - but couldn't prove - was underlying his ridiculous mob mentality image.
Everyone likes to have fun in-game. Just some people are sociopaths at heart I guess - at least now we know.
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Largo Usagi
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:Days before I had a CCP Fanfest speech to give, I got drunk and accidently my powerpoint, then I got drunk on the day and presented the powerpoint, lots of laughs were had by all cept the dude I insulted.
I don't remember any of it.
I'm really sorry - which is why I premeditated it and did it. Let's clear some things up. Yes, he made his powerpoint presentation. But the dude was anonymous at that point. The Mittani yelping out his name to the crowd, that was off-the-cuff and spontaneous, not premeditated at all.
Actually wrong, that type of space tears gets broadcasted the moment it happens, every one in the CFC probably got a broadcast about it or heard word of mouth the day it happened, that was way old news, he wasn't anonymous and those evemails had been shared by goons the moment it happened.
Also I was not in goons when this care bear got slaughtered and i heard about it within a few hours. |
Tassarion
The Eden Trading International Corporation Curatores Veritatis Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:Days before I had a CCP Fanfest speech to give, I got drunk and accidently my powerpoint, then I got drunk on the day and presented the powerpoint, lots of laughs were had by all cept the dude I insulted.
I don't remember any of it.
I'm really sorry - which is why I premeditated it and did it. Let's clear some things up. Yes, he made his powerpoint presentation. But the dude was anonymous at that point. The Mittani yelping out his name to the crowd, that was off-the-cuff and spontaneous, not premeditated at all.
so he was *drunk-as-***** but remembered the name of the miner? ok, could be because of his name and mittens wizard hat, but still... meh. |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
437
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 05:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote: How many of them stood up on a live broadcast panel to thousands of people and did it?
This is just a blatant act of the immature nature we have all known - but couldn't prove - was underlying his ridiculous mob mentality image.
Everyone likes to have fun in-game. Just some people are sociopaths at heart I guess - at least now we know.
So its ok to tell people to kill themselves though text. Not ok to say it on a video stream. I see. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
125
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Revolution Rising wrote: How many of them stood up on a live broadcast panel to thousands of people and did it?
This is just a blatant act of the immature nature we have all known - but couldn't prove - was underlying his ridiculous mob mentality image.
Everyone likes to have fun in-game. Just some people are sociopaths at heart I guess - at least now we know.
So its ok to tell people to kill themselves though text. Not ok to say it on a video stream. I see.
heh, people tell people to kill themselves all the time. The difference is, we don't do so KNOWING that person already has some amount of trauma in their lives to the point where it has impacted their ability to cope, AND THEN throw the proverbial shitcan at them in public.
The problem people have with Alex, and the rest of the goons is actually very simple although you pass it off as in-game rhetoric.
It's the simple fact that many people have been around the world for a while, and experience tells many of us what someone with a predatory personality is like.
People don't like this kind of behavior in general, but when it reaches the point where some dude is standing in front of the world inflicting this kind of malice at someone for LAUGHS - then it's gone way too far.
CCP should be doing something about it.
It is as simple as that, you can troll this forum all you want. This isn't a CAOD post about "your alliance sucks".
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
166
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
I would have remembered an asian dude with a black bird taped to his face. |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
441
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:heh, people tell people to kill themselves all the time. The difference is, we don't do so KNOWING that person already has some amount of trauma in their lives to the point where it has impacted their ability to cope, AND THEN throw the proverbial shitcan at them in public.
The problem people have with Alex, and the rest of the goons is actually very simple although you pass it off as in-game rhetoric.
It's the simple fact that many people have been around the world for a while, and experience tells many of us what someone with a predatory personality is like.
People don't like this kind of behavior in general, but when it reaches the point where some dude is standing in front of the world inflicting this kind of malice at someone for LAUGHS - then it's gone way too far.
CCP should be doing something about it.
It is as simple as that, you can troll this forum all you want. This isn't a CAOD post about "your alliance sucks".
Neo-****'s in the USA are allowed to spew their hatered all day/night. Millions of Black families have had family members who were murdered, beaten, or otherwise victemised by racist assholes.
Yet, we protect the right of them to say their garbage.
Why? Because its important that people be allowed to say -anything- they want. Its also important for people to be mature enough to ignore the bullshit they might hear. You cant punish people for saying things that are against the public/common 'morality'.
If you were living in **** Germany for example, should you not be allowed to speak out against ******? As a fundamental rule, people should be allowed to say absolutely anything they want. Morality is purely subjective. It is wrong to punish someone for his beliefs or words, no matter what they are. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
132
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:heh, people tell people to kill themselves all the time. The difference is, we don't do so KNOWING that person already has some amount of trauma in their lives to the point where it has impacted their ability to cope, AND THEN throw the proverbial shitcan at them in public.
The problem people have with Alex, and the rest of the goons is actually very simple although you pass it off as in-game rhetoric.
It's the simple fact that many people have been around the world for a while, and experience tells many of us what someone with a predatory personality is like.
People don't like this kind of behavior in general, but when it reaches the point where some dude is standing in front of the world inflicting this kind of malice at someone for LAUGHS - then it's gone way too far.
CCP should be doing something about it.
It is as simple as that, you can troll this forum all you want. This isn't a CAOD post about "your alliance sucks".
Neo-****'s in the USA are allowed to spew their hatered all day/night. Millions of Black families have had family members who were murdered, beaten, or otherwise victemised by racist assholes. Yet, we protect the right of them to say their garbage. Why? Because its important that people be allowed to say -anything- they want. Its also important for people to be mature enough to ignore the bullshit they might hear. You cant punish people for saying things that are against the public/common 'morality'. If you were living in **** Germany for example, should you not be allowed to speak out against ******? As a fundamental rule, people should be allowed to say absolutely anything they want. Morality is purely subjective. It is wrong to punish someone for his beliefs or words, no matter what they are.
He didn't say it in the USA for one. And guess what, the rest of us shouldn't have to put up with it even if he did.
And if he thought it was reasonable behaviour - then I just have one question ...
Why'd he apologise at all ?
My EVE YouTube Channel |
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Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
132
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lets face it.
We've seen you guys defend each other on the forums week after week, troll troll troll.
There's little merit in any of your arguments. He did this to himself. It's not defensible, nor is it "good", "reasonable" or even - and this is the crux of it - acceptable.
He should be gone.
Nuff said.
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Tassarion
The Eden Trading International Corporation Curatores Veritatis Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
because the apology is a troll? |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:I can link at least 15 other people who have directly told others to kill themselves. Moral equivalence is a really weak argument. You're better off omitting this line of thinking altogether from your defense of the Mittani. Just sayin.
Start a corp and do it yourself. You'll fail, but you'll enjoy failing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
441
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:He didn't say it in the USA for one. And guess what, the rest of us shouldn't have to put up with it even if he did.
And if he thought it was reasonable behaviour - then I just have one question ...
Why'd he apologise at all ?
WHERE he said it is entirely beside the point. Regardless of what part of the planet he was standing on, he should have the right to say whatever he wants.
Guess what, We shouldnt have to put up with a bunch of people dragging a suicidal guy's private business through the news simply to get someone else removed from our internet spaceship game. I'm offended. I'm offended that you've abused this player as cannon fodder for your selfish goals. YOU should be banned. YOU offended me.
Should you be banned because of your position? I think if we took a vote, the MAJORITY would agree mittani should remain. So that leaves you in the minority. Should the majority mob rule over you and your freedom of speech? This is why its important that people be allowed to say ANYTHING they want - Otherwise you end up oppressing people simply for not sharing the same views as you. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Because its important that people be allowed to say -anything- they want. Its also important for people to be mature enough to ignore the bullshit they might hear. You cant punish people for saying things that are against the public/common 'morality'.
If you were living in **** Germany for example, should you not be allowed to speak out against ******? As a fundamental rule, people should be allowed to say absolutely anything they want. Morality is purely subjective. It is wrong to punish someone for his beliefs or words, no matter what they are.
If you disagree with what he's saying, you're free to say that. But you should not be allowed to punish him for it. If we started punishing every idiot, we'd only have about 5% of the population free Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech. Start a corp and do it yourself. You'll fail, but you'll enjoy failing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
442
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote: Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech.
Unfortunatly thats also beside the point.
That EULA exists in the state it does simply because there are so many ******* whiner crybabies who were never told "Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me". Sadly, EULA's like that are also what enforces people's belief that they have the right to control what others say.
We live in a truly ignorant world. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
132
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Indeed, it is covered by the EULA.
I think the thing for him to do right now is step down - before CCP is forced to bring the EULA into it and just plain ban him.
That is what people are discussing in other threads if you take a look.
I personally wouldn't want to see him banned - but he obviously shouldn't be in the office.
Obvious not-chairman is obvious.
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
132
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Chokichi Ozuwara wrote: Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech.
Unfortunatly thats also beside the point. That EULA exists in the state it does simply because there are so many ******* whiner crybabies who were never told "Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me". Sadly, EULA's like that are also what enforces people's belief that they have the right to control what others say. We live in a truly ignorant world.
That we do My EVE YouTube Channel |
Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote: Neo-****'s in the USA are allowed to spew their hatered all day/night. Millions of Black and Jewish families have had family members who were murdered, beaten, or otherwise victemised by racist assholes.
Yet, we protect the right of them to say their garbage.
Why? Because its important that people be allowed to say -anything- they want. Its also important for people to be mature enough to ignore the bullshit they might hear. You cant punish people for saying things that are against the public/common 'morality'.
If you were living in **** Germany for example, should you not be allowed to speak out against ******? As a fundamental rule, people should be allowed to say absolutely anything they want. Morality is purely subjective. It is wrong to punish someone for his beliefs or words, no matter what they are.
If you disagree with what he's saying, you're free to say that. But you should not be allowed to punish him for it. If we started punishing every idiot, we'd only have about 5% of the population free
Your ability to elide the idea that people should legally have the freedom to say what they want with a second, very different, idea that no one should ever face any non-legal consequences for what they say is impressive. Perhaps you would like to combine two other completely different points into one just because they both have the word 'speech' in them?
By the way, you have fallen into the first trap of moral subjectivism - telling people that moral subjectivism is objectively right. If you look closely you may see a problem with a statement that has the following form:
Quote: Morality is purely subjective. It is wrong to ... You should not be allowed to ...
Of course, if morality is subjective you have NO GROUNDS AT ALL for complaining about anything anyone else does. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Chokichi Ozuwara wrote: Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech.
Unfortunatly thats also beside the point. No, it is the entire point. If you don't like the restrictions on speech, stop playing. If you're going to play CCP's game, you accept the EULA and the speech restrictions. Start a corp and do it yourself. You'll fail, but you'll enjoy failing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
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Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
444
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:Chokichi Ozuwara wrote: Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech.
Unfortunatly thats also beside the point. No, it is the entire point. If you don't like the restrictions on speech, stop playing. If you're going to play CCP's game, you accept the EULA and the speech restrictions.
I'm well aware of the EULA and its restrictions. My point is that freedom to say dumb **** is a fundamental human right. Without it, we end up punishing -everyone-. Absolutely EVERYONE is guilty of offending someone. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:Chokichi Ozuwara wrote: Unfortunately, we have all agreed to abide by the EULA, which means we have VOLUNTARILY accepted restrictions on our speech.
Unfortunatly thats also beside the point. No, it is the entire point. If you don't like the restrictions on speech, stop playing. If you're going to play CCP's game, you accept the EULA and the speech restrictions. I'm well aware of the EULA and its restrictions. My point is that freedom to say dumb **** is a fundamental human right. Without it, we end up punishing -everyone-. Absolutely EVERYONE is guilty of offending someone.
Wow! You are really good at inconsistency. Tell me more about how morality is subjective and how that fits in with your 'fundamental human rights'. |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
145
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 06:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kara, you ask the IMPOSSIBLE!
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
445
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:Wow! You are really good at inconsistency. Tell me more about how morality is subjective and how that fits in with your 'fundamental human rights'. Without the right to say any dumb thing that pops into your mind, every single one of us ends up guilty of offending someone. This is why its critical people be allowed to say anything they want. If they're not allowed to, **** Germany happens. Consider China today, and its censorship. A man is beaten by his government simply for painting the wrong things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Weiwei#Shanghai_studio_controversy
This is what happens when you're not allowed to speak your mind. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
146
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:07:00 -
[35] - Quote
From another thread:
"Terminal Insanity" wrote:This just in.
Eveonline is a cyberbullying simulator. Its main features are literally the killing, thieving, and backstabbing.
WOW is back in the direction you came from.
Yes the great humanitarian. I can see how this terrible betrayal of human rights has effected you.
Furthermore I can see why you stand in defense of people who stay stupid ****.
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:08:00 -
[36] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:My point is that freedom to say dumb **** is a fundamental human right. There is no such thing as a fundamental human right. There is only what we negotiate with our fellow humans. In this case, CCP and the EULA.
Start a corp and do it yourself. You'll fail, but you'll enjoy failing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
446
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:Yes the great humanitarian. I can see how this terrible betrayal of human rights has effected you.
Furthermore I can see why you stand in defense of people who stay stupid ****.
When your mother lands on your Boardwalk with a hotel, do you let her stay free? NO? Are you some kind of *******?
Eve is about killing, thieving and backstabbing. Thats part of the game. Just like charging insane fees to stay at your Boardwalk hotel is.
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:There is no such thing as a fundamental human right. There is only what we negotiate with our fellow humans. In this case, CCP and the EULA.
Unfortunately you're correct. Which is why we end up with millions of people beaten, murdered, and otherwise harassed by their governments. All in the name of the 'public good'.
Just like the 'criminal' Ai Weiwei "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Revolution Rising
Gentlemen of Better Ilk
146
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tassarion wrote:because the apology is a troll?
Well as the powerpoint proves his presentation of this guy's vulnerable state was premeditated, if the apology isn't a troll - it's at least a very empty one.
My EVE YouTube Channel |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
446
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:Well as the powerpoint proves his presentation of this guy's vulnerable state was premeditated, if the apology isn't a troll - it's at least a very empty one.
The powerpoint doesn't prove that he planned on saying what he did. It only proves that he intended to lol at someone's space tears, as is a common practice here in eveonline. If you cant handle people laughing at your space pixels blowing up, perhaps its time to find another game that is more suited to you. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
468
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:14:00 -
[40] - Quote
Revolution Rising wrote:Days before I had a CCP Fanfest speech to give, I got drunk and accidently my powerpoint, then I got drunk on the day and presented the powerpoint, lots of laughs were had by all cept the dude I insulted.
I don't remember any of it.
I'm really sorry - which is why I premeditated it and did it.
I wrote a thing which I'm not going to cross-post in its entirety here
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=87117&find=unread
please stop the stupid so we can have an informed discussion^^ |
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Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:15:00 -
[41] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Eve is about killing, thieving and backstabbing. Thats part of the game. So is building stuff, exploring, team work, friendship and goodwill.
It is annoying to see people try to paint the game as some sort of training ground for sociopathic behavior. Almost as bad as people trying to claim that blatant harassment is not harassment, or that the EULA they agreed to, isn't something they agree with. Start a corp and do it yourself. You'll fail, but you'll enjoy failing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:Wow! You are really good at inconsistency. Tell me more about how morality is subjective and how that fits in with your 'fundamental human rights'. Without the right to say any dumb thing that pops into your mind, every single one of us ends up guilty of offending someone. This is why its critical people be allowed to say anything they want. If they're not allowed to, **** Germany happens. Consider China today, and its censorship. A man is beaten by his government simply for painting the wrong things. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Weiwei#Shanghai_studio_controversyThis is what happens when you're not allowed to speak your mind.
Nope. You're still illegitimately conflating freedom from legal persecution with complete freedom from consequences. Do you really think that a salesman should be free to insult his customers, drive away business, and trash his boss without getting fired? The fact that he should be able to do such things without the state taking action against him is a completely different matter. Similarly, is your girlfriend impinging on your right to free speech if she leaves you because you call her a ***** everyday and tell her she's a 'worthless piece of ****'? No, of course not. Freedom from the acts of violence implicit in state regulation of speech is NOT the same thing as freedom from all consequences for what you say. In this particular case, we're talking about a call for a purely social consequence for a speech act, not a legal one, so the rhetoric of 'free speech', which applies only to legal situatios, doesn't apply.
By the way, if I were you I'd drop the moral relativism schtick and go down the moral nihilism route. It's the only consistent approach. But once you lose the crutch of appeals to things like 'human rights' you end up with no moral codes but social codes instead. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:20:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:But once you lose the crutch of appeals to things like 'human rights' you end up with no moral codes but social codes instead. I want to love you forever and always.
Start a corp and do it yourself. You'll fail, but you'll enjoy failing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
447
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:20:00 -
[44] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:Eve is about killing, thieving and backstabbing. Thats part of the game. So is building stuff, exploring, team work, friendship and goodwill. It is annoying to see people try to paint the game as some sort of training ground for sociopathic behavior. Almost as bad as people trying to claim that blatant harassment is not harassment, or that the EULA they agreed to, isn't something they agree with. The game wasnt designed to be like most other games. In most other games there are rules to protect you from scams and people killing you repeatedly.
Eve was designed from the ground up to be a sandbox, for better or worse. It is up to the players to decide what they do in the game. It allows, and caters to people who want to 'ruin your day'. Its true that it also provides PvE opportunities. But you're still thinking like a PvE player. You are free to do your PvE activities inside the same sandbox with the guys doing their PvP activities. This means you're going to get blown up and robbed.
If you came to eve just for the PvE content, you will not find it enjoyable. You must, by game design, be subjected to the possibility that your day will be ruined. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:25:00 -
[45] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Eve was designed from the ground up to be a sandbox, for better or worse. It is up to the players to decide what they do in the game. It allows, and caters to people who want to 'ruin your day'. That's also a cost of doing business for people doing PVE.
I really think the bittervets and PVPers have a super distorted view of what is really going on with thousands of players in hisec. A lot of us just like building stuff and making money, and accept the possibility of getting ganked as part of the bargain.
That doesn't mean we're justified in becoming sociopaths or homicidal in-game.
Terminal Insanity wrote:If you came to eve just for the PvE content, you will not find it enjoyable. Nonsense, there are literally tens of thousands of players who love the PVE content.
Start a corp and do it yourself. You'll fail, but you'll enjoy failing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
453
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote: Nope. You're still illegitimately conflating freedom from legal persecution with complete freedom from consequences. Do you really think that a salesman should be free to insult his customers, drive away business, and trash his boss without getting fired? The fact that he should be able to do such things without the state taking action against him is a completely different matter. Similarly, is your girlfriend impinging on your right to free speech if she leaves you because you call her a ***** everyday and tell her she's a 'worthless piece of ****'? No, of course not. Freedom from the acts of violence implicit in state regulation of speech is NOT the same thing as freedom from all consequences for what you say. In this particular case, we're talking about a call for a purely social consequence for a speech act, not a legal one, so the rhetoric of 'free speech', which applies only to legal situatios, doesn't apply.
By the way, if I were you I'd drop the moral relativism schtick and go down the moral nihilism route. It's the only consistent approach. But once you lose the crutch of appeals to things like 'human rights' you end up with no moral codes but social codes instead.
You are indeed subject to social consequences. That is fine. Banning someone in a game would be the equivalent of putting someone in jail or giving them the death penalty. That is a legal persecution. The 'authority' or governing body is punishing you by removing all of your rights, simply for speaking your mind.
Now for the democratically elected CSM position, he should be subjected to social consequences. If the players really don't want him representing them anymore, he should be dismissed, as he is supposed to represent their interests. (Much like the salesman is supposed to represent his company's interests). But in this case i think if you held another election, he'd be voted right back into place. (Similarly, if the salesman's employer is a racist *******, he might choose not to fire the salesman) "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Terminal Insanity
The Filthy Ones
453
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:Terminal Insanity wrote:Eve was designed from the ground up to be a sandbox, for better or worse. It is up to the players to decide what they do in the game. It allows, and caters to people who want to 'ruin your day'. That's also a cost of doing business for people doing PVE. I really think the bittervets and PVPers have a super distorted view of what is really going on with thousands of players in hisec. A lot of us just like building stuff and making money, and accept the possibility of getting ganked as part of the bargain. That doesn't mean we're justified in becoming sociopaths or homicidal in-game. Terminal Insanity wrote:If you came to eve just for the PvE content, you will not find it enjoyable. Nonsense, there are literally tens of thousands of players who love the PVE content. And you're free to enjoy your PvE experience in eve, but you must accept the possibility that someone is going to come blow you up. That is what the game is about. Everyone's freedom to do whatever they want. You chose to play in this sandbox, and so you have to play beside the bullies. If you dont like the bullies, you can find a different sandbox. "War declarations are never officially considered griefing and are not a bannable offense, and it has been repeatedly stated by the developers that the possibility for non-consensual PvP is an intended feature." - CCP |
Dhakgar
Next Gen Technology Next Generation Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:47:00 -
[48] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote:Revolution Rising wrote:He didn't say it in the USA for one. And guess what, the rest of us shouldn't have to put up with it even if he did.
And if he thought it was reasonable behaviour - then I just have one question ...
Why'd he apologise at all ?
WHERE he said it is entirely beside the point. Regardless of what part of the planet he was standing on, he should have the right to say whatever he wants. Guess what, We shouldnt have to put up with a bunch of people dragging a suicidal guy's private business through the news simply to get someone else removed from our internet spaceship game. I'm offended. I'm offended that you've abused this player as cannon fodder for your selfish goals. YOU should be banned. YOU offended me. Should you be banned because of your position? I think if we took a vote, the MAJORITY would agree mittani should remain. So that leaves you in the minority. Should the majority mob rule over you and your freedom of speech? This is why its important that people be allowed to say ANYTHING they want - Otherwise you end up oppressing people simply for not sharing the same views as you. People have the right to say ignorant bullshit. Because if they don't, then we have no rights at all.
just wanna get this straight. if you're going through a tough time, your mother gets cancer, your wife leaves you and sells all your ****, and you get fired, so you're barely surviving in an apartment with a working internet connection just playing a game to relax, would you like to have someone stand up in front of thousands of people and say, "hey, harass this guy until he commits suicide"
btw, the right to be an ignorant **** isn't a right--- thats what civilization is for. |
Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote: You are indeed subject to social consequences. That is fine. Banning someone in a game would be the equivalent of putting someone in jail or giving them the death penalty. That is a legal persecution. The 'authority' or governing body is punishing you by removing all of your rights, simply for speaking your mind.
No. That analogy is flawed. If I say I won't play chess with you because you are rude to me I'm freely exercising my ability to choose my own social relationships. I have not done anything equivalent to the state using the threat of violence and imprisonment against you in order to force you to behave in certain ways. You don't play nice, I withdraw my cooperation. Similarly, whilst you are right that there are some analogies between the social structure of the game and that of a state, the analogies are weak, particularly at the level of consequences (I have argued before that there are genuine issues at the level of dignity and recognition though). Comparing the consequence of terminating a business/social relationship to the effect of giving someone the death penalty fails to make the relevant point because the death penalty has a very different, absolute effect. The death penalty does not just remove you from one voluntarily chosen social grouping, as removal from a game does. A ban from a game is not 'legal persecution' just because there is a relationship of authority (better 'dependence', since the relationship is entirely freely chosen), for the same reason that being fired from a job may derive from authority but not from law.
Quote: Now for the democratically elected CSM position, he should be subjected to social consequences. If the players really don't want him representing them anymore, he should be dismissed, as he is supposed to represent their interests. (Much like the salesman is supposed to represent his company's interests). But in this case i think if you held another election, he'd be voted right back into place. (Similarly, if the salesman's employer is a racist *******, he might choose not to fire the salesman)
a) Votes are not at present genuinely representative in eve, at least not in the structure of the current elections where a 3% share of the vote can get you elected chair and where isk can directly and legitimately buy you votes. Eve is not a 'mature' democracy. That aside, I think you would find the result might be rather different if cast in terms of an up or down vote.
b) The social consequences need not be limited to deriving from the 'society of players'. Far more important is the social relationship of the particular player with the business, which needs to be set in the context of the business' social relationships with future potential customers, investors and the media. If they feel that they have been 'hurt' by these comments then they may well choose to take action by excluding him from their social group.
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Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
77
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:53:00 -
[50] - Quote
Terminal Insanity wrote: And you're free to enjoy your PvE experience in eve, but you must accept the possibility that someone is going to come blow you up. That is what the game is about. Everyone's freedom to do whatever they want. You chose to play in this sandbox, and so you have to play beside the bullies. If you dont like the bullies, you can find a different sandbox.
This is a completely different issue and I don't mean these comments to be taken in the context of the Mittani stuff but there is a third option: drive the bullies out of the sandbox. If it is to be a sandbox, and not an institution for the protection and preservation of bullies, then there is no reason to suppose that they own the place. Now, how you would drive them out is another matter entirely ... |
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Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:57:00 -
[51] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:Now, how you would drive them out is another matter entirely ... CCP is already working on this. There are a limited number of a-holes to grow their business around, every software company trends towards the "normal" customer over time. Start a corp and do it yourself. You'll fail, but you'll enjoy failing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
1992
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 08:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Threads should have content before they are posted and they should be for discussing things like grown ups do. We even have rules to make that happen and everything. Locked. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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