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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:22:00 -
[1]
Post 1
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:24:00 -
[2]
post 2
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:24:00 -
[3]
post 3
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:25:00 -
[4]
post 4
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:25:00 -
[5]
post 5
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:26:00 -
[6]
post 6
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:26:00 -
[7]
post 7
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:27:00 -
[8]
post 8
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:27:00 -
[9]
post 9
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:28:00 -
[10]
post 10
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:29:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 12/09/2008 19:29:43 post 11
COMBO 11 Hits boyah, ideas will come be patient
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:53:00 -
[12]
found out ill need a post 12 sorry. :(
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
SonOf X51
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Posted - 2008.09.12 19:55:00 -
[13]
Post 13
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.12 20:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: SonOf X51 Edited by: SonOf X51 on 12/09/2008 19:58:33 Post 13
Where-ever you have writen "10% Reduction in Duration/Activation of Scan Probe Launcher." for your ship designs on Tech 1 hulls, I feel it would be more appropriate for this to be a 7.5% bonus per level. Covert-Ops are tech 2 and get 10% per level, same should carry through here IMO
Other than that, interesting ideas so far.
Covert Ops will still get bonuses to all scanners (recon), and it cloaks. SOE computers dont have to deal with a cloaking system so its more dedicated to scanning however its only limited to explorer probes. I should put a foot note that this ship should be unable to scan while cloaked but im unsure if thats game mechanic or ship ability, ill have to fit a ship later today to see.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.13 00:41:00 -
[15]
Sigh very long posting and alot more to go and of course but im taking a break for now.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
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Posted - 2008.09.13 09:55:00 -
[16]
Some comments:
I do like the idea of a field scientist profession. I believe scientists need to have some sort of reason to leave space dock.
I'm not sure about the container style lab though. I think we'd be better off working with deployed ship labs instead. The mechanics are there already, with the Rorqual's industrial core. When active, the factory slots (compression only) are available. This mechanic could easily be changed to work for lab slots as well, with some sort of 'Laboratory Core' on a specialized science vessel. The other problem of working with the labs in space is that, unlike the Rorqual's VERY short compression job cycle, lab jobs can take many days to complete. This, however, is already taken care of with the industrial core mechanic, in that jobs get suspended when the core is inactive, and automatically resume when activated again. The core also already has a fuel use mechanic set in.
This will lead to science alts floating in space though, which I'm not too sure about. This actually makes me want them to be limited to low/null sec. ôIn order to make them portable, ship based labs lack the safety protocols of installation based facilities, therefore, concord has deemed them illegal to use in 'civilized' space.ö If this was the case, they would have to actually be BETTER (faster) than POS based facilities, to make them have proper risk/reward ratio.
The Science vessel certainly should have more to do than just the lab jobs, so it doesnÆt get relegated to always being a fixed deployed structure. However, I donÆt think we necessarily need to turn science into yet another resource gathering profession. Perhaps the focus should be on creating some sort of meta-items that can be optionally used in scientific endeavors, much like the decryptors are used in invention today. I donÆt think the new items necessarily have to be restricted to use in the science vessels though. They should basically just provide a bonus to copy time, ME research, or PE research.
Not really on topic, but I would also like to see other specialized deployable science/industry ships introduced, using the same mechanic. Manufacturing slots for small scale items (ammo, drones, and modules) would be beneficial to a roaming flotilla. Of course, a mobile refinery would also be required to feed these mobile factories. The mobile refinery would work slightly different though, as it doesn't use the S&I slot mechanic. Instead, it should be a module that can be 'loaded' with ore (like ammo in a weapon), and upon completing the cycle, it puts the minerals back in the hold, and 'reloads' with more of the same ore type, if available. Mechanic is already there for this one as well.
I can imagine a mobile group of industrialists directly backing up a combat wing. A few hulks suck in some ore, and transfer it to a refinery ship. The refinery ship (a Syndicate designed capital) melts the ore down into minerals, and transfers the minerals to the factory ship. The factory ship (of Thukker origin) produces ammo/drones and packs them into a blockade runner to bring to the front lines.
The SoE ships youÆve proposed are nice, but IÆm not sure that many tiers are necessary. What do your tier 2 and 3 ships do that the tier 1 doesnÆt? There is a definite scale and reason for 3 tiers of barges for mining, where yield is the reason for getting the bigger ship. In the science profession, most the time would be spent on the exploration itself, and the larger ships donÆt necessarily do that any better than the smaller ones.
New Prospector Class |
Asno Malo
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Posted - 2008.09.13 17:44:00 -
[17]
Greetings,
Overall I like the ideas you have presented so far. I look forward to reading over the rest as you post it. Having said that, one key area where your ship proposals fail is;
Originally by: Nova Fox
Fitting CPU 140 Power Grid 70 Calibration 400 2 High 3 Medium 1 Low 3 Rigs
Based on their purpose, none of the frigate classes can actually support a scan or recon launcher. Their CPU is far too low to actually mount the launchers. Please think about increasing the CPU output and decreasing the PG to bring these ships more in line with CovOps ships.
Another issue, with the skill bonus and the extra rig slot here, this ship would outstrip the CovOps ships in scan speed. While I don't have a problem with that overall, I would recommend removing the extra rig slot and increasing the scan duration to 15%, or reducing the scan duration to 7.5% to compensate for the extra rig slot.
Finally, I would recommend re-working the secondary bonuses a bit. Other than fit, your three ships only differ in their fits, I would recommend specializing these ships a bit more, for example, give the Pixie a bonus to Hacking modules, but reduce the strength bonus to 3%, while adjusting the Sprite to have a similar bonus to Archaeology modules.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.13 18:17:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Clansworth Some comments:
Lots of stuff.
I agree they need to leave dock.
The labs arent a container exactly i was using it to give people a better idea what they are working with. Its a lab you put a blue print in it, it will ask what research and for materials before letting any blue print to be put inside of it.
Deployed shipmode for capitols only I just havent thought of a good idea to use for the Oberon, right now playing with the ideas of algrothm copies that cant leave that ship.
We ought to be careful how much faster these personal labs do thier research but the labs are limited to on run at a time for a few reasons.
The oberon will use fuel for whatever thing we come up with that would seem 'supportive' to field science work.
I have to disagree with restriction in security space. Limiting the runs to 1 at a time and making the labs massive would mean to run all 11 slots would only be doable in a freighter and you might as well just have that thing docked at that point as it become a massive hassel to carry all the codes you need.
Why do people work in the field then? its to get resources, in this case its data. Data is quite invaluable to scientist back in the labs in real life (remember real life good for inspiration of new ideas not balance.) So thats what im doing here, for example they found out the sleepers built thier ships with a method that uses less materials for the same performance, combine that information with mordern tech and you got ME results.
Decryptors im am leaving for the civillian hackers to deal with, dont need to overreach and say ORE should be the best in savlaging now in the case another company comes up with thier own salvagers.
All items cept the data streaming analzyers and science core are usable on any other ship and the materials are usable anywhere there is a hanger bay (wont work in space floating)
I too would love to see nomadic support but its unlikely however... also i doubt the battles and the sort your thinking of will never happen that way in eve ever...
Forgot to put in the hidden bonus (similar to stealth bombers unmentioned) all the teired ships will get a reduction in power drain bonus allowing them to use more streaming analyzers than the previous teir. without as big as a penalty.
I sorta went backwards with data collecting, instead of getting it done fast as possible like miners would do.
Field scientist are trying to keep the site alive long as possible. With every pull of the analyzers more time is taken away from the site cutting down the power drain of the analyzers would be a way to acheive superior performance. The different teirs would account for an extra analyzer slot available and give it a high enough power drain bonus to consider the additional analyzer.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.13 18:26:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Asno Malo Greetings,
Overall I like the ideas you have presented so far. I look forward to reading over the rest as you post it. Having said that, one key area where your ship proposals fail is;
Originally by: Nova Fox
Fitting CPU 140 Power Grid 70 Calibration 400 2 High 3 Medium 1 Low 3 Rigs
Based on their purpose, none of the frigate classes can actually support a scan or recon launcher. Their CPU is far too low to actually mount the launchers. Please think about increasing the CPU output and decreasing the PG to bring these ships more in line with CovOps ships.
Another issue, with the skill bonus and the extra rig slot here, this ship would outstrip the CovOps ships in scan speed. While I don't have a problem with that overall, I would recommend removing the extra rig slot and increasing the scan duration to 15%, or reducing the scan duration to 7.5% to compensate for the extra rig slot.
Finally, I would recommend re-working the secondary bonuses a bit. Other than fit, your three ships only differ in their fits, I would recommend specializing these ships a bit more, for example, give the Pixie a bonus to Hacking modules, but reduce the strength bonus to 3%, while adjusting the Sprite to have a similar bonus to Archaeology modules.
Fully noted about the cpu issue I should slap myself as it was the only module I didnt fit I got most of the numbers doing bare bones and adding +10%, any thoughts about power grid or is it civillian enough?
Forgot to add in the 'hidden bonus' of analyzers reduced power drain between the teirs. Tech 2 ships will have specialized roles extra bonuses just havent thought of them yet.
If you can give me a per level number that when combined with the three rigs (i need to double check to see if its even possible) the boost in time scanned is only like 5-10% Ill use that instead right now busy getting artwork done and another number to be 5-10% better than that one, im not entirely sure how stackings works and I dont eft at all...
Tech 1s will have 3 rig slots like all tech 1 ships will, i dont think its fair to take away a rig slot for that reason alone as somone else would just put a deviation reduction rig or a signal strength increasing rig or any other rig for that example.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Asno Malo
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Posted - 2008.09.13 19:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nova Fox Fully noted about the cpu issue I should slap myself as it was the only module I didnt fit I got most of the numbers doing bare bones and adding +10%, any thoughts about power grid or is it civillian enough?
Right off the bat, based on my previous comments, I would suggest the following;
- Pixie: 140 CPU, 25 PG
- Sprit: 250 CPU, 30 PG
- Fairy: 280 CPU, 25 PG
Quote: Forgot to add in the 'hidden bonus' of analyzers reduced power drain between the teirs.
Based on how often analyzers get used and how long they currently take, I would strongly recommend against adjusting their cap usage, instead go with my previous comments and make them effectiveness bonuses. These modules are generally used only a few times per day / hour and as such cap is generally not an issue.
Quote: If you can give me a per level number that when combined with the three rigs (i need to double check to see if its even possible) the boost in time scanned is only like 5-10%
A CovOps ship gets 10% per level, so 50% scan duration, plus another 20% for the two rigs. So let's use that as a base. The two counter proposals that I suggested would give 37.5% plus another 30% for three rigs or 75% plus another 20% for two rigs. Hmmm, the second one is way too high, let's try 12.5%, that would give 62.5% plus another 20% for two rigs. So with that we would get;
- Specialized Frigate: 25% for Frigate skill plus 30% for rigs = 55%
- CovOps: 50% for CovOps skill plus 20% for rigs = 70% reduction
- Exploration prop 1: 37.5% for Exploration skill plus 30% for rigs = 67.5% reduction
- Exploration prop 2: 62.5% for Exploration skill plus 20% for rigs = 82.5% reduction
Based on those numbers and your desire to keep the three rigs, and the fact that these are specialized T1 ships, I would go with Exploration prop 1. Then the T2 versions could use Exploration prop 2.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.13 19:30:00 -
[21]
Asno thanks for getting back with me as quickly as you did I dont think ill need to tweak the numbers at all as its impossible to fit three gravity capacitors with only 400 calibration.
Analyzers are getting a new use if you read the gathering part of the idea, i apologize if the post is so long you might have skipped over it.
The power drain bonuses its referring to is not the ships own but the sites battery supply, its the sites power supply the more its analyzed the more time is taken off from already ticking down timer.
Tossed in the scan probe in and got 220+ cpu :( and like 12 grid so I double that output to help account for possible tech 2 gear.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Asno Malo
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Posted - 2008.09.13 20:09:00 -
[22]
You have now given them far too much CPU and while retaining the PG, you have made this ship capable, without skills, of fitting just about anything with CPU and PG to spare. The numbers I gave you would mean that you would at least need some more basic skills to fit these boats. I recommend looking at ships like the Cheetah, Helios, Buzzard, and Anathema to see what their CPU and PG values are. Remember these boats are specialized in scanning and they are T2 ships.
I would urge you to seriously rethink their balance before you continue. With values these high, you are basically creating a class of super ships.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.13 20:12:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 13/09/2008 20:19:32
Originally by: Asno Malo You have now given them far too much CPU and while retaining the PG, you have made this ship capable, without skills, of fitting just about anything with CPU and PG to spare. The numbers I gave you would mean that you would at least need some more basic skills to fit these boats. I recommend looking at ships like the Cheetah, Helios, Buzzard, and Anathema to see what their CPU and PG values are. Remember these boats are specialized in scanning and they are T2 ships.
I would urge you to seriously rethink their balance before you continue. With values these high, you are basically creating a class of super ships.
And this is what i get for not using etf >< *slaps self.
But the rig bonus problem is no longer an issue?\
Anyways the electronics to 5 add 25% total amount so Im thinking about dropping this to require electronics 2 making a 15% cut, then reducing the wiggle room by 5% which is a overall 20% cut from the original cpu values
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.13 21:30:00 -
[24]
Added the purposed tech 2 ship bonuses.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Ragnarohk
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.14 01:45:00 -
[25]
I love this!
Two years ago when I started playing EvE I had the misconception that 'scientist' was a valid profession. Hell science was one of the original race profession choices, but I soon learnt that notion was complete bull and re-trained to mindlessly shoot things instead. It got a shot in the arm with invention but this trekking through the galaxy, discovering exploring and 'sciencing' for profit, often sneaking into enemy territory to gather data, that is what I wanted to do!
I do dearly hope this becomes real.
-Rag
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.14 08:01:00 -
[26]
well I got perty far today in updates added 2 new pictures and fixed a fitting problem hopefully.
Anyways Ill work on more picture and start knocking more of the tech 2s out and shuffeling some posts around.
New Ship Idea: Tender Supply Ship, The Logistics Sister |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.14 23:38:00 -
[27]
Okay todays update add a gallery and a faq section should be the last two posts needed by the project.
More graphs pictures and moving sketch notes into design notes are on thier way.
Still hammering out the last details of the tech 2 ships and now considering actual numbers for stats soon(tm).
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.16 05:51:00 -
[28]
Upgraded the Sprites sketch notes into full graphical design notes, slightly better quality and better accuracy of what im trying to protray
Added HP values to all ships shields armor and hull cept for the capitol
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Manfred Rickenbocker
The Elliance Delta.Green
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Posted - 2008.09.16 21:27:00 -
[29]
Seems interesting. Science does need to be more than a sit-and-wait profession. The ships seem good, but they lack diversity. Perhaps arrange them around what you need to do at certain exploration complexes in order to get things done: hacking ship, salvage ship, scanning ships, and the science mining ships. ------------------------ Peace through superior firepower: a guiding principle for uncertain times. |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.09.16 23:45:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker Seems interesting. Science does need to be more than a sit-and-wait profession. The ships seem good, but they lack diversity. Perhaps arrange them around what you need to do at certain exploration complexes in order to get things done: hacking ship, salvage ship, scanning ships, and the science mining ships.
Hacking will goto the Mordus/NOH partnership Salvaging will goto the Thukker Mix Tribe
and no not going to design these ships anytime soon, on step at a time.
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