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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.13 02:30:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Faife
Originally by: murder one
What Crumplecorn said. As it sits now, it's pretty much impossible to destroy an enemy with a war of attrition. It's impossible to choke someone out of their space in 0.0 by destroying their supply lines and killing off their ability to afford more ships by *destroying ships*.
This is a stupid situation that needs to be fixed.
you can't choke people out if they have t2 bpos and a few good moons.
the game is screwed up because of those colossal money prints. if you remove insurance no starter alliance would have any chance to move to hold 0.0: the other guys print money, they dont. as a side effect it makes losing t1 ships easy. oh well. it's a small price to pay (no pun intended) for having possibility of power flow in the game
Yes you can. Most t2 bpos make barely any isk.
You can siege the moon mining pos and kill them.
You can't stop their highsec npc corp L4 mission running alts from supplying them from isk to fight however, which is completely broken.
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.13 03:17:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Faife
citation needed. there's a reason they sell for as much as they sell for. the good ones anyways.
What citation do you need? The fact that the vast majority of t2 bpos are crap like ammo bpos? Only very few BPOs actually make significant amounts of isk.
Quote:
this one is my point. there's no way to take a moon station if they're constantly printing new ships WITHOUT having to fly missions, while you're constantly busy grinding lvls to replace your caps.
or do you intend to go after a small death star with t1 fit apocs?
What? Siege it with dreads?
Quote:
law of unintended consequences: you nerf those, you make it nigh impossible to win new chunks of 0.0 space.
Bullcrap, are you saying before L4 mission running became eve's favorite way of making isk no new entities ever claimed space in 0.0 and succeed?
You think goonswarm funded their 0.0 empire by running missions in highsec?
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.14 09:43:00 -
[3]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 14/09/2008 09:24:08
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: MotherMoon here is the hard truth, it takes about 4 hours of level 4 missions to replace 20 million isk.
Your 'truth' is somewhat untruthful....
you failed to read the next line didn't you...
here is the hard truth, it takes about 4 hours of level 4 missions to replace 20 million isk... FOR NEW PLAYERS THAT DON"T HAVE THE SKILLS OR GEAR YET and are flying tech 1 fit tier one battleships (if they even have one left after losing one.
so it fact unless a player grinds up two battleships one for missioning back the isk for the lost one it will take longer than 4 hours.
not qutoed.
So this newbie that can only use t1 battleships somehow lost a t2 fitted battleship?
If this newbie is so new that he can only use t1 fitted battleships, then it will cost him barely anything to replace it. Would you like to check the cost of losing a t1 fitted bs after insurance?
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.14 10:15:00 -
[4]
Originally by: MotherMoon Edited by: MotherMoon on 14/09/2008 10:02:53
Originally by: Gamesguy
So this newbie that can only use t1 battleships somehow lost a t2 fitted battleship?
If this newbie is so new that he can only use t1 fitted battleships, then it will cost him barely anything to replace it. Would you like to check the cost of losing a t1 fitted bs after insurance?
sure let me check anywhere but jita, one moment.
ok tech 1 typhoon battleship cost:80 mil insurance cost for full: 20 million gear for tech 1 fit: 6 mil
that's 26 million isk lost.
which he's right is not a lot... for ME maybe. I have about 500 million isk and lots of ships, but I remember when getting a battleship replaced took 6 hours in a cyclone.
HOwever it seems in jita you can buy typhoons for 60-65 million isk. SO I suppose it's more about actully knowing the rops and be willing to fly that battleship back. time sink.
A good idea is to well I won't say :)
Roflmao. So buying a ship in jita is somehow such a huge burden now?
Concession accepted.
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.15 23:28:00 -
[5]
Quote: In this simplified example, your argument is that by makign everything cost more, the war of attrition is won quicker, and that is better and more balanced. I am arguing that this is nonsense, as we have a situation right now where targets are risk-averse enough that we're on the edge of "not fighting at all" already. I dont see this as an argument to cheapen ships, merely that the status quo works, and a situation with far more expensive ships, might not.
Nonsense. If anything making more isk makes people more risk averse.
The risk averse people will avoid pvp even when they have billions and billions of isk. They just hate dying. Its like the people in WoW who get really ****ed off at dying despite losing basically nothing.
The pvpers will continue to pvp, even if they can't afford the ships.
Look at eve 2 years ago. Most people didn't know about mission running making so much isk back then. People in general had a lot less isk and equipement and ships were far more expensive(especially t2). Now look at today, where 70% of eve is sitting in highsec, most of them running missions making far more isk than 2 years ago.
Can you honestly tell me there is a higher percentage of pvpers today?
No, there isn't. If anything the risk free isk faucets in eve(ie missions) have made players even more risk averse.
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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.16 01:51:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cmdr Sy Edited by: Cmdr Sy on 15/09/2008 23:40:19
The cost of a BS is only trivial compared to the setup. The rigs alone cost nearly as much as an Armageddon, before adding T2 guns, everything and seeing your "insured" loss soar to 100m. One here, one there, pretty soon you are talking real money.
A fully T2-fitted Thorax is also an expensive explosion.
I only lose like 10mil when I lose fully t2 fitted fleet snipers.
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