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Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.13 02:30:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Faife
Originally by: murder one
What Crumplecorn said. As it sits now, it's pretty much impossible to destroy an enemy with a war of attrition. It's impossible to choke someone out of their space in 0.0 by destroying their supply lines and killing off their ability to afford more ships by *destroying ships*.
This is a stupid situation that needs to be fixed.
you can't choke people out if they have t2 bpos and a few good moons.
the game is screwed up because of those colossal money prints. if you remove insurance no starter alliance would have any chance to move to hold 0.0: the other guys print money, they dont. as a side effect it makes losing t1 ships easy. oh well. it's a small price to pay (no pun intended) for having possibility of power flow in the game
Yes you can. Most t2 bpos make barely any isk.
You can siege the moon mining pos and kill them.
You can't stop their highsec npc corp L4 mission running alts from supplying them from isk to fight however, which is completely broken.
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Faife
Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa
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Posted - 2008.09.13 02:44:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Yes you can. Most t2 bpos make barely any isk.
citation needed. there's a reason they sell for as much as they sell for. the good ones anyways.
Originally by: Gamesguy
You can siege the moon mining pos and kill them.
this one is my point. there's no way to take a moon station if they're constantly printing new ships WITHOUT having to fly missions, while you're constantly busy grinding lvls to replace your caps.
or do you intend to go after a small death star with t1 fit apocs?
Originally by: gamewhatever
You can't stop their highsec npc corp L4 mission running alts from supplying them from isk to fight however, which is completely broken.
law of unintended consequences: you nerf those, you make it nigh impossible to win new chunks of 0.0 space. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Saint |
Gamesguy
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.13 03:17:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Faife
citation needed. there's a reason they sell for as much as they sell for. the good ones anyways.
What citation do you need? The fact that the vast majority of t2 bpos are crap like ammo bpos? Only very few BPOs actually make significant amounts of isk.
Quote:
this one is my point. there's no way to take a moon station if they're constantly printing new ships WITHOUT having to fly missions, while you're constantly busy grinding lvls to replace your caps.
or do you intend to go after a small death star with t1 fit apocs?
What? Siege it with dreads?
Quote:
law of unintended consequences: you nerf those, you make it nigh impossible to win new chunks of 0.0 space.
Bullcrap, are you saying before L4 mission running became eve's favorite way of making isk no new entities ever claimed space in 0.0 and succeed?
You think goonswarm funded their 0.0 empire by running missions in highsec?
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Mihailo Great
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.13 04:05:00 -
[64]
Remove all sources of isk, so we play with GTC credits only.
Lose a battleship, cost you 15$ in real life, lose a Titan, lose your HOUSE IRL!!!
IS THAT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU????
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notaforumalt
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.09.13 04:33:00 -
[65]
Originally by: snaike I dearly wish I was one of these players who could throw battleships away at an opponent like one would throw pennies at a homeless feller to make him go away. I dunno, maybe the fact that, after 2 years of play, I don't have a multi-billion isk wallet would suggest I suck at Eve, but then I don't enjoy grinding isk, nor do I have the time/money for an isk***** account.
I play for pvp, and pvp is damn expensive, even when you don't die all that much (touches wood). If my losses were to hurt me in the way you would like them to, I simply would not bother playing, and ccp would lose my ú's.
Don't get me wrong, despite that last sentance this isn't a 'omgzz ccp dnt change stuffz or I will quit' I'm simply relaying to you the reality of the situation for many players. When I lose a battleship, or indeed any ship, I feel a pang of regret for the hit my wallet must subsequently sustain; and I'm sure Im not the only one.
this is it right here- im a pvper, i have 1.5m in my wallet, and a chimera/rook and various t1 cruisers. i HATE missions and would rather eat babies then mine. ratting, i can rat in a pvp ship and wait for some moron in a razu looking for a easy kill :D __________________________________________________ this is my sig, and i am not an alt *hides* |
Hard Water
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Posted - 2008.09.13 04:43:00 -
[66]
Get rid of dysprosium moons and make Dysprosium Rats.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.09.13 04:44:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Hard Water Dysprosium Rats
XD -
DesuSigs |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.09.13 05:05:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Hard Water Get rid of dysprosium moons and make Dysprosium Rats.
Probably in the Midas expansion. Drone regions will have the top level drones drop some new alloy that refines to dys.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
NSSQUAD
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Posted - 2008.09.13 06:03:00 -
[69]
i just want to say that i can fly vary large ships but guess what iv never used them :-P i can get battle ships and what not if i mine my ass off but i dont feel like it. so i fly my commet around and around the battle ships scraming them and there is nothing they can do :-) but i find that no careing about how the market is price is doing just fine for me. i play the game and get my skills better and better by the month. what does this get me? a better pilot more skills i can have and has everyone forgot how to just save your money and assets?
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.09.13 07:36:00 -
[70]
Its a cute Idea, but it can't really work anymore, for the same reason that if you can only afford cruisers when your opponents can afford battleships, you lose. Period.
(Seriously, think about this for a second when which side is going to get more allies, the guys with 15 battleships each who can easily replace them, or the ones with 1 cruiser each who have to sc**** by in the nonsense never will exist nerfed highsec EVE?) Another one bites the dust. |
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TimMc
Gallente SolaR KillerS
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Posted - 2008.09.13 07:46:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Blastrodamus
Originally by: Gatedeath
....in a fully fitted T2 BS that cost you all of 20 mil isk.
for the love of god please tell me where i can get a T2 BS for 20 mil.
This. Costs 100mil for just the BS, 30mil for insurance that only give you 100mil back when you lose it. Plus that 50 odd mil for fittings and even more for rigs. You are looking at 100mil loss.
For those of us who hate ratting for hours on end, this hurts. CCP are trying to get people to risk, instead of carebear.
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Joe
Umbra Legion Shadow Empire.
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Posted - 2008.09.13 08:01:00 -
[72]
by 'T2' i think they dude ment 'teir II' such as Apocs, ravens, and megathrons etc
Ship cost has no impact on their 'dissposability' if the Insurance payout componsates for loss's.
Its a pity we cant have the best of both worlds, becuase new players legitamaly need the insurance system so theyre not discouraged to leave after a few ship los's (and lets face it, everyone makes mistakes and looses ships when theyre just learning the game system)
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Mihailo Great
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.13 08:13:00 -
[73]
last poster game me an idea, might of been mentioned, but here it is
insurance is dependant on player age, it's easier to track than player's loss history or insurance claim history
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Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors.
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Posted - 2008.09.13 08:18:00 -
[74]
This is worse than the whole mwd/web nerf + mass increase fiasco ... you people are friggin' insane.
If we STOP THE MACROMINERS and ISK FARMERS, prices will fall into line again.
Whats so hard to comprehend? ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO) |
Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.09.13 08:43:00 -
[75]
I wouldn't raise the price, but I would make it harder to buy them (for example you would have go get them from shipyards in specific locations). Players should have to "travel" more to get certain things. Nowdays you can just tavel to any hub and get EVERYTHING. In general if you want Amarr ships, you need to travel to amarr space. Just make something similar to customs (and smuggling ;))
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Alarios
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Posted - 2008.09.13 09:08:00 -
[76]
You re right Tim. It costs much more than 20 million when you loose a Battleship. 20 million pfff... Maybe wehen you re using something like a ugly dominix without rigs.
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Esmenet
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.13 09:32:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Faife
Originally by: murder one
What Crumplecorn said. As it sits now, it's pretty much impossible to destroy an enemy with a war of attrition. It's impossible to choke someone out of their space in 0.0 by destroying their supply lines and killing off their ability to afford more ships by *destroying ships*.
This is a stupid situation that needs to be fixed.
you can't choke people out if they have t2 bpos and a few good moons.
the game is screwed up because of those colossal money prints. if you remove insurance no starter alliance would have any chance to move to hold 0.0: the other guys print money, they dont. as a side effect it makes losing t1 ships easy. oh well. it's a small price to pay (no pun intended) for having possibility of power flow in the game
Thats insignificant. The larger issue is that you can keep your isk generating activities in perfect safety and completely removed from harms way through the use of high sec and npc corps. In essence EVE has separated the pvp areas from the isk generating areas to a large extent and that in turn removes a very large part of the economic aspect of pvp. Vote against the nano nerf! |
Daelin Blackleaf
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Posted - 2008.09.13 10:08:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Solomon XI If we STOP THE MACROMINERS and ISK FARMERS, prices will fall into line again.
Whats so hard to comprehend?
A great many, if not most, of the people farming ISK are actual players. You think all those people in Motsu are sweatshop workers?
Of course, if you really mean that this kind of ISK farming needs to be reigned in then I'm right behind you.
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Steve Hawkings
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Posted - 2008.09.13 10:13:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Solomon XI This is worse than the whole mwd/web nerf + mass increase fiasco ... you people are friggin' insane.
If we STOP THE MACROMINERS and ISK FARMERS, prices will fall into line again.
Whats so hard to comprehend?
lol Time is not Money and minerals i mine are free!! |
Lil' Snake
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Posted - 2008.09.13 10:19:00 -
[80]
Successful troll is successful
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Hungo
Minmatar Warped Mining
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Posted - 2008.09.13 10:20:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Gatedeath Hi, im from the NC, we are loosing so badly that we need a way to stem the tide of evil doers agaisnt us, please consider my redicoulsy silly idea so they cant effectly pvp agaisnt us
Okay, akll done
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Feilamya
Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.13 10:26:00 -
[82]
solution for the op:
give me your isk
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.09.13 10:28:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Yes you can. Most t2 bpos make barely any isk.
You can siege the moon mining pos and kill them.
You can't stop their highsec npc corp L4 mission running alts from supplying them from isk to fight however, which is completely broken.
T2 BPO owners can produce fine by sitting in high sec all day and buying components using buy offers...
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.09.13 10:33:00 -
[84]
DYING ITT
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Chipan Asty
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Posted - 2008.09.13 11:05:00 -
[85]
The price of ships is set by the players not CCP.
If you want to make the price of ships increase all you have to do is buy all the minerals in eve up and resell them for a higher price. And maybe wardec every mining corp in eve and blow them out of existence to stop them restocking the market with cheaper mins again.
The only thing CCP could do is introduce a roid drought and that isn't going to happen.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.09.13 11:10:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Faife
Originally by: Gamesguy
Yes you can. Most t2 bpos make barely any isk.
citation needed. there's a reason they sell for as much as they sell for. the good ones anyways.
With all the disagreement I have with Gamesguy, she is right. Most T2 BPO make a pittance in isk. And the sell price is out of proportion for the isk received from production. Generally T2 BPO are sold for the profits of 3-5 year of continual (24 hours day) production at current sell prices.
Originally by: Faife
Originally by: Gamesguy
You can siege the moon mining pos and kill them.
this one is my point. there's no way to take a moon station if they're constantly printing new ships WITHOUT having to fly missions, while you're constantly busy grinding lvls to replace your caps.
or do you intend to go after a small death star with t1 fit apocs?
The POS owner must still move his products to the market. You have problems with him having jumpbridges and jump freighters? Wardec them and hunt the corp freighter in high sec. NPC corp haulers can be a problem, but you can still suicide them in high sec and recover the moon minerals moved from the wreck.
Originally by: Faife
Originally by: gamewhatever
You can't stop their highsec npc corp L4 mission running alts from supplying them from isk to fight however, which is completely broken.
law of unintended consequences: you nerf those, you make it nigh impossible to win new chunks of 0.0 space.
Only point where I partially agree with you. Level 4 mission need to be rebalanced but not at the level Gamesguy think is indispensable.
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Terail Zoqial
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.13 11:30:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Gatedeath Edited by: Gatedeath on 12/09/2008 19:49:11 Battleships are so dispposable today, as to not even be considerd a loss when they get blown up. Provided you had it insured. You just keep dying over and over, get another BS, head back to the blob, loos another BS. so on and so forth.
Stop selling GTC's for isk and just use in game resources, either that or buy BS's on the market for the highest price.
If I had 1 isk for every ******ed comment, I'd have a titan by now. |
Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.09.13 11:41:00 -
[88]
People who think wars of attrition are impossible fail epically at EVE. I've seen it done, even had it done to the alliance I'm in. Given the necessity of player immortality in this MMO, you don't win by blowing up their internet spaceships, you go after their ISK printing presses.
No, not their death stars, their cyno jammer POSes, their jump bridges (though offlining them can be amusing at times).
You go after their moon mining POSes. The little towers they thing nobody cares about. Nail one moon mining POS, and you've not only disabled that particular source of material, but you've disabled the entire reaction. In essence, you've knocked out two to four different towers by rendering them incapable of generating income. A few hundred million ISK per day of effortless income now becomes an ISK sink as hungry reactors burn POS fuel without profit.
Larger alliances obviously require larger efforts, but constantly reinforcing those towers costs the station owners not only the lost income from the miners, but the strontium they have to replenish, the time they waste putting it back online, and the effort to reinforce those small towers once they realize someone's nipping at their wallets.
Attrition is alive and well in 0.0, its just a very different game when tilting with the bigger windmills. In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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Lindsay Logan
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Posted - 2008.09.13 11:44:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Lindsay Logan on 13/09/2008 11:44:19
Originally by: Gatedeath OP post.
Go back to WoW where the item prices are fixed. Players make the prices in this game.
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Janu Hull
Caldari Terra Incognita Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.09.13 11:52:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Janu Hull People who think wars of attrition are impossible fail epically at EVE. I've seen it done, even had it done to the alliance I'm in. Given the necessity of player immortality in this MMO, you don't win by blowing up their internet spaceships, you go after their ISK printing presses.
No, not their death stars, their cyno jammer POSes, their jump bridges (though offlining them can be amusing at times).
You go after their moon mining POSes. The little towers they thing nobody cares about. Nail one moon mining POS, and you've not only disabled that particular source of material, but you've disabled the entire reaction. In essence, you've knocked out two to four different towers by rendering them incapable of generating income. A few hundred million ISK per day of effortless income now becomes an ISK sink as hungry reactors burn POS fuel without profit.
Larger alliances obviously require larger efforts, but constantly reinforcing those towers costs the station owners not only the lost income from the miners, but the strontium they have to replenish, the time they waste putting it back online, and the effort to reinforce those small towers once they realize someone's nipping at their wallets.
Attrition is alive and well in 0.0, its just a very different game when tilting with the bigger windmills.
You're right for the wrong reasons.
Its not that the moon mining pos killing are hurting their wallets, it really doesnt. Us killing all of the NC's moon mining posses didnt hurt their wallets much.
It hurts morale. 0.0 warfare today is about grinding down your opponent's morale rather than their wallets. Losing posses while you're stuck gatecamping a single cyno jammed station pos hurts morale, and give it a couple of weeks people start not logging on for the gatecamps.
I stand corrected. o7 In the event of an emergency, my ego may be used as a floatation device.
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