Actually Raivi, when it comes to super capital experience, not only do I have have the same anti fleet experience as both of them, I've also got quit a bit more super on super and super on capital experience than either. I mean honestly, they've been involved in 1-2 major super fights between them, not counting the fountain black screen. I've got 4-5, all historically the largest in game to date, with the one exception of the WN massacre in Venal, which was also a blackscreen of death fight if I'm not mistaken.

The other thing your PHD wizz didn't account for is that tracking grows with range and therefore is not a static variable. While signature is a static variable that never changes over the course of range. What this means is that the part of the formula that accounts for tracking varies and has more weight over range than the part that accounts for signature and remains static.

Tracking can in fact grow by as much 25000% in that multiplier from 1km range to 250 km range. Over the same course of range, signature will not change.

When you introduce webs in at close range, the same effect occurs as they essentially create an artificial range dilation on angular velocity.

And to throw a PHD in my face like it means something is total rubbish. It's like saying George Bush went to Yale and therefore he's not an idiot. Your PHD only know's as much information as you feed him you clueless git, which is why I say to either listen to someone who's actually studied the eve mechanics and has somewhat of a grasp, or GTFO of the way so someone better can handle it.

Next time you throw a PHD in my face, you better ******* have a grasp on the content knowledge first bro.

Do you even know why the wormhole exploit worked for perfect hits before it was removed? The formula as currently coded has a variable in it that can sink to 0 creating an undefined slope on chance. This was recognized by the client and allowed infinite range, and perfect damage. The patch to get it out of game had to adjust the wormhole effect that created the undefined slope. This in fact had 0 to do with signature of ships. The way it was exploited was to **** with the tracking variables on ships.
...
The only way for both probabilities to have equal effect is to separate the terms. The only way to separate the terms in mathematics is through addition or subtraction. You can ask any 6th grader that question as it's in their current curriculum.

[quote=I'm Down] all that stuff

This is because the value for tracking was almost certainly represented server-side as an unsigned variable, and when > -100% TD was applied the value underflowed and became a VERY LARGE positive value.

Plus it's unlikely to be caused by under/overflows, as afaik ccp uses floats for attribute values (python floats are c double-precision floats).

ok I don't get teh argument against Grayscale on the signature resolution vs turret tracking thing. The formula is pretty straightforward. If the formula is actually correct, he's right, since the tracking term is in radians and every term is independent. This isn't "PhD" level math. This is basic ******* algebra. Doubling the top of a fraction is the same as halving the bottom.



This is wrong and is the entire source of your problem. In the formula tracking is in radians, and is a static variable. Maybe you should...I dunno....spend 30 seconds actually looking at the formula before you take a dump on yourself in public next time.

Radians are used so that tracking is not static. If tracking were static such as I can track 500 m/s always, then your arguement would be correct.

But when you use radians, It means that a ships velocity has to increase for the tracking to have the same effect. For a ship that has 0.02 tracking, this means at 10km of range, he can track 200 m/s of speed. But at 20km range, he can track 400 m/s of speed. Therefore, it's not a static number.

It's been tested and proven time and again on both the live and test server.

As for the denominator being 0, there's a huge difference in a calculation between a denominator being close to 0, and a denominator being 0. When a denominator is 0, the computer can't physically compute the number as there is no limit on infinity.

And yes, it was 100% that made the difference:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/09/29/eve-wormhole-exploit-is-fixed/

Ok. Tracking, as represented in the equation, is in terms of radians. It is independant of range. Hence why range is a seperate variable.

All your evidence to the contrary is meaningless, as you are trying to refute deductive reasoning with inductive reasoning. The failure of inductive reasoning, and your argument, is that there are other possible explanations for the results. The discovery of quantum mechanics was not used to refute calculus, it wad used to refute classical dynamics.

If you cannot accept that there is a fundamental equation behind this, I don't know what to tell you. Honestly I don't know how someone as thick headed as yourself was able to lead the NC to victory. Oh. Wait.

And yes, it was 100% that made the difference:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/09/29/eve-wormhole-exploit-is-fixed/

This prevented players from pushing the effectiveness of tracking disruptors over the magic 100% mark that caused the bug.

...

Can somebody who tested this check the fittings, the resists, the skills, confim the stationariness and that the shield/armor/structure were full and equal before the shots? I can troll with random numbers too.

I can't suggest anything about the raven GGt this definitely could be borked with new formula. But with the titans check that they had exact same resists and exact same amount of shield before they hit each other. The second one could hit another one for less damage because the first one had less shield and more raw damage went to armor.

However, concerning the numbers, you used shieldtanked avatars. Then still check the resists, the fleetbonuses, everything.

the raven fit was 2 lse 2 invulns and 1 em hardner

dmg with hardners around 14k dmg without 18k

tests on an thanatos

the hits on 0 rezist were of 50k.

Thread is gingo round in circles though...

Radians are used so that tracking is not static. If tracking were static such as I can track 500 m/s always, then your arguement would be correct.

But when you use radians, It means that a ships velocity has to increase for the tracking to have the same effect. For a ship that has 0.02 tracking, this means at 10km of range, he can track 200 m/s of speed. But at 20km range, he can track 400 m/s of speed. Therefore, it's not a static number.

It's been tested and proven time and again on both the live and test server.

As for the denominator being 0, there's a huge difference in a calculation between a denominator being close to 0, and a denominator being 0. When a denominator is 0, the computer can't physically compute the number as there is no limit on infinity.

And yes, it was 100% that made the difference:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/09/29/eve-wormhole-exploit-is-fixed/

Yes but the question is CAN WE TRACK IT.

I have to admit, I laughed pretty hard at this.

Ships

Titans can now lock a maximum of three targets.
XL turrets have had their signature resolution set to 2000m.
Capital Turrets that are fitted to titans now have a new damage-scaling attribute; targets with a signature radius smaller than this size will take reduced damage from these turrets. This does not apply to dreadnaughts.
Siege modules have had their tracking penalty removed.

So, what are the effects for dreads? Increased tracking in siege (it is not written, that XL turrets get their tracking nerfed) but on the other hand - lesser chance to hit due to sig.res. ? Anyone calculated how will it change the sutuation?

Or CCP again forgot to write some things into patchnotes?

OK. Seems like soe clever guy wrote it right:
[16:35:06] Fatyn > dreads out of siege nerfed but who cares
[16:35:13] Fatyn > the patch notes say
[16:35:16] Fatyn > in siege
[16:35:27] Fatyn > tracking doubled, Turret Sig Res doubled
[16:35:45] Fatyn > these two effects cancel each other out in the tracking formula

The sig/sig ratio is multiplied by the transversal/tracking*range ratio.

Per Greyscale, this would mean that when tracking hits 0, the ratio becomes undefined. K, thx, cya.

Dreads got boosted vs sub caps, Titans have virtually no nerf, just slightly more effort required from fleets, This really is the most idiot change in the history of CCP.

PS, this formula would mean that tracking is modified by range exactly as I stated before. It's not static, it's multiplied over range.

Tracking can never reach 0 within normal game mechanics, tracking is the tracking stat of your guns.

It could in wormholes a while back, which is what that was addresing

Yup. Consequences are halved tracking out of siege and identical tracking in siege. We could've just gone with a tracking nerf, but kicking the sig res up to a more capital-normal range seemed like a more intuitively acceptable adjustment, and gives the advantage that for titans both values (sig res and damage reduction) sit at 2k, reinforcing their role as anti-capital ships.