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Fredfredbug4
Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control
150
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
All I hear from miners is asking CCP or their fellow miners and carebears alike to do something about suicide ganking. While the first step to solving a problem (not confirming nor denying it is a problem) is addressing the situation and letting others know about it, this seems to be the only step miners have taken to stop or limit suicide ganking.
All anti- suicide ganking threads are the same. They first talk about what they were doing right before they got ganked (usually sitting completely still in a mining ship), they ask for CCP to either outlaw or severely nerf suicide ganking and then they start pointing fingers and calling names. The responses to these threads are either the usual trolls or people giving geniune advice to try and solve their problem, both of which are generally met with hostility from the OP and those that agree with him.
I've ready many of these threads, hoping to see something new on the subject each time and one thing I've noticed is that the OP never once mentions any precautions they took to avoid getting suicide ganked such as aligning or scouting with an alt/other player.
I'm not calling anyone out here, this is a question out of complete curiosity
As miners who are fully aware of suicide ganking, what have you done to try and avoid being suicide ganked?
I also have a follow up question in the event you actually did try to avoid being suicide ganke
If you have tried to avoid being suicide ganked and your attempt failed, why do you think it failed? |
Aiwha
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
271
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Unfortunately, there isn't a whole lot they can do besides being aware of their surroundings. Regards,
LCpl. Aiwha-á Senior Recruiter |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
421
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:All I hear from miners is asking CCP or their fellow miners and carebears alike to do something about suicide ganking. While the first step to solving a problem (not confirming nor denying it is a problem) is addressing the situation and letting others know about it, this seems to be the only step miners have taken to stop or limit suicide ganking.
All anti- suicide ganking threads are the same. They first talk about what they were doing right before they got ganked (usually sitting completely still in a mining ship), they ask for CCP to either outlaw or severely nerf suicide ganking and then they start pointing fingers and calling names. The responses to these threads are either the usual trolls or people giving geniune advice to try and solve their problem, both of which are generally met with hostility from the OP and those that agree with him.
I've ready many of these threads, hoping to see something new on the subject each time and one thing I've noticed is that the OP never once mentions any precautions they took to avoid getting suicide ganked such as aligning or scouting with an alt/other player.
I'm not calling anyone out here, this is a question out of complete curiosity
As miners who are fully aware of suicide ganking, what have you done to try and avoid being suicide ganked?
I also have a follow up question in the event you actually did try to avoid being suicide ganke
If you have tried to avoid being suicide ganked and your attempt failed, why do you think it failed?
Call concord to the belt you are mining in. You're a carebear, burn some of that wasteful sec status.
Tank your ship instead of cargo tanking your ship.
Orcas can use shield links as well as mining links. The capacitor link is rubbish anyway.
Watch dscan. rembourcer ou vous ne pourez plus miner en paix !!-ánous n'aimons pas les pirate !!-áno rembource mi declare war for you |
gfldex
405
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Unfortunately, there isn't a whole lot they can do besides being aware of their surroundings.
They go to the forum and whine. They do so because it works. A long long time ago CONCORD spawned within 30 sec in 0.5. Now it's 5 sec. And when cunning individuals started to tinker with CONCORD prespawning they whined more. Now we will get death rays. Whining is much more efficient then fitting DCUs. And if that doesn't work they can all the time add a few more bots to mitigate the impact of ganking.
Check the killboards of the gank queens. You will hardly find any hulk fitted with a damage control. The reason is simple. Even a Thorax can't break that. But that would lower their mining speed. Adding another bot works better. Since they don't have to watch the screen it gives them plenty of time to whine.
They don't do anything because they don't have to.
Lets burn down Carebears-Online and rise Everlasting-Fun-Online from it's ashes. |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
291
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:
Call concord to the belt you are mining in. You're a carebear, burn some of that wasteful sec status.
Tank your ship instead of cargo tanking your ship.
Orcas can use shield links as well as mining links. The capacitor link is rubbish anyway.
Watch dscan.
A couple of years ago we did this, during Hulkageddon, wondering if we'd see any action. We had a blackbird cloaked up nearby and the hauler alt could swap out to a heavily shield tanked Myrmidion should anyone appear in the belt. The shield harmonics gang link is a much better choice than the capacitor link as you said.
WoW holds your hand until end game, and gives you a cookie whether you win or lose. EVE not only takes your cookie, but laughs at you for bringing one in the first place... |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
421
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
gfldex wrote:Aiwha wrote:Unfortunately, there isn't a whole lot they can do besides being aware of their surroundings. They go to the forum and whine. They do so because it works. A long long time ago CONCORD spawned within 30 sec in 0.5. Now it's 5 sec. And when cunning individuals started to tinker with CONCORD prespawning they whined more. Now we will get death rays. Whining is much more efficient then fitting DCUs. And if that doesn't work they can all the time add a few more bots to mitigate the impact of ganking. Check the killboards of the gank queens. You will hardly find any hulk fitted with a damage control. The reason is simple. Even a Thorax can't break that. But that would lower their mining speed. Adding another bot works better. Since they don't have to watch the screen it gives them plenty of time to whine. They don't do anything because they don't have to.
Its 13 seconds in .5, with a 6 second delay when concord is busy somewhere else, and 3 seconds for each ship in the operation to be destroyed by concord.
And I have to say, about the bot thing, man are there a lot.
To be perfectly honest i have a group of pilots on my watchlist right now that I am 99% sure are bots. There is no way I am reporting them tho.
rembourcer ou vous ne pourez plus miner en paix !!-ánous n'aimons pas les pirate !!-áno rembource mi declare war for you |
Rashino Zea
Universal Freelance
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
The truth is, with the destroyer buff, only a hulk can survive a single person gank, and that's only when fully tank fit.
There really aren't much options from them aside from not mining. A large group can protect its self by calling concord to belts (and being always-ready to call again in a second). A lone miner, or even 1 with a few alts, has no chance.
While "situation awareness" maybe protect you, that assumes you're fully cognoscent of your surroundings all the time. If you're glued to the screen like that, mining will make you go mental first. |
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Don't be in a target rich environment. A.K.A populated system. Move systems if need be. |
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Be Attentive to your surroundings. 99% of the time that will keep you safe.. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
40
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
I ran a corp a long while back, we ran scheduled mining ops. Had new members who were tired from being ganked. What I did?
1. Showed them to sec can over cargo expand, and fitted them with tank, I don't mean civie shield booster.
2. Corp ops, had a network. During larger ops. Two orca pilots. One ran shield links and tractored in full/threatened jetcans, other ran mining links. Had hauler warping to orca to load on ore. We spaced miners out in the belt for an even spread. Nobody was within 10km of eachother.
3. Watched local for spikes and people entering out belts.
4. Didn't mine in heavy populated systems. We moved to where people werent. Rent was cheap, ore was better, less griefers.
Our corp never had a suicide loss. I guess 40k+ ehp mining ships not worth the hassle when next belt is a civie booster afk drones.
Oh, I should mention, we ran these ops during hulkageddon and made a tidy profit. |
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Dhorion Pyler
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.03.28 00:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sentinel Smith wrote:Be Attentive to your surroundings. 99% of the time that will keep you safe..
How do you think people survive in nul sec?
If you said by having a sugar daddy you are correct. |
gfldex
406
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote: To be perfectly honest i have a group of pilots on my watchlist right now that I am 99% sure are bots. There is no way I am reporting them tho.
Story time! I have a few ice miners on watch list that I'm sure are botters. I ganked two of them out of an ice belt. Their pods swiftly went back to station. Then they started to relog exactly every 2 minutes. Did so for at least 5 hours then I went to bed. I petitioned them and halve the corp was gone for 2 weeks.
I used to buy ice blocks to sell the reffed ice products for a profit. Would you hand me 35% profit just like that? I would not. But I know that quite a few macroer did so because I had wallet entries exactly every 11 1/2 minutes for a few hours on stretch. In several stations at the same time.
Now I can't buy that stuff anymore because some grim dev decided it would be cool to seize the possessions of botters. It's going to be a complete mess. The market will go nuts and the whining of false positives will be ENDLESS!
Having CONCORD after 30 sec in the belt might have been the better solution after all.
Lets burn down Carebears-Online and rise Everlasting-Fun-Online from it's ashes. |
Blastcaps Madullier
Celestial Horizon Corp. Flatline.
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:35:00 -
[13] - Quote
gfldex wrote:[quote=Aiwha]Unfortunately, there isn't a whole lot they can do besides being aware of their surroundings.
Quote:You will hardly find any hulk fitted with a damage control. The reason is simple. Even a Thorax can't break that.
A lot of newbie miners make that mistake about a DCU not seeing the benefit it brings rather than the "this lowers how much i can mine/h however your very wrong about a thorax cant break thatand your making the mistaken assumption it will only be ONE thorax and hell even a tanked to hell hulk is vunerable to the kinda dps one of the tier 3 BCs can put out no it's not economical to use one to gank a hulk but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen
Quote:Adding another bot works better. Since they don't have to watch the screen it gives them plenty of time to whine.
Thats making the assumption most if not all miners use bots, there are people who actualy aren't botting while mining sure they might not be talking on local but that doesn't mean they aren't at the PC chatting on corp and alliance chats with friends and ts/vent/mumble, making that assumption is like saying everyone who does market trading, ratting mission running etc are running bots.... some do some dont, dont tar one group all with the same brush.
To the OP, most are going to be reluctant about sharing what they do to avoid being ganked, knowing how you'll react can be used against you :) |
Alyssa Yotosala
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
89
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
As was mentioned earlier, there is pretty much nothing a miner can do to protect themselves from suicide ganking, other than being aware of their immediate surroundings.
But I learned another method that dramatically reduces my chances of getting ganked while mining. I have tested it out and have been using this method for quite some time, and can confidently declare that it works in almost every mining situation. The only downside is that most miners dont like using this method because it means they have to change their typical play style, which most are loathe to do. But for anybody who wants to know and give it a try, this is what I do:
Step 1: Stop mining. Step 2: Repeat Step 1.
And you know what? Immediately after using this method, my mining suicide gank losses dropped to zero. Yes, thats right, zero (0). Not a single loss, and it has been working for me for a very long time.
I also found that I saved a metric crapton of ISK due to not losing Hulks all the time. I moved onto more profitable endeavours instead, and have never looked back.
In EVE, there is no genuine reason to spend all your time mining for ISK.
TL;DR: tough luck, read it you lazy sod. |
Burhtun
Pacific Mining and Manufacturing Co-operative Nox Draconum
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
On the rare occasion that I give in and mine with my corpmates I fit my hulk for as much tank as possible and forgo the mining upgrades and cargo rigs. This makes it even more of a waste of time to mine but at least I can survive a suicide catalyst or two... or more? I have no idea. Never been ganked in hisec. It ends up with about 27k EHP according to EFT I think. And that is before being boosted by my maxed out leadership character with shield, armor, and sig radius links. Brings it to 35k-ish I think. Still, all it takes is more kamikaze pilots. I think it might take more ISK worth of ships than the value of my Hulk to gank me though...? So thats "fair" I guess. Just sucks that I have to give up mining yield.
I also align to station, but I sit still as I have an orca with me to dump the ore into. This results in the ship leveling out due to EVE's invisible ground plane so it doesn't do much good but at least I'm not facing backwards. In WHs since I wouldn't use an orca out in the open I would move towards my POS at a slow speed to keep aligned, then warp when cargo was full. I'd like to see EVE become true 3D space and get rid of the ships' constant attempts at righting themselves.
Its pretty silly that suicide is so commonplace in the game from a lore or roleplay perspective though. Especially considering that there are several hundreds or thousands of peons on board that do not have clones like the capsuleer... if I'm remembering the lore correctly. You'd think eventually people would refuse to board any ship under your command. Stupid game. But mining is a silly, boring, waste of time in the first place so... meh. Maybe that will change, glad to see CCP is at least toying with making some mining activity that contains some actual gameplay. Maybe I'll dust off my Hulk one day. |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3577
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
My question is can a fully tanked out hulk survive a gank?
Unfourtunately with the drone region nerf and another refine nerf on the horizion mineral market is going to look like oil market.
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Zircon Dasher
91
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
If there was any ganking going on in highsec then highsec would have risk.
Anyone who reads the forums knows that highsec is risk-free.
Therefore, there can be no ganking.
Ganking is just a myth to scare little children into behaving like the adults want them to. |
Clyde ElectraGlide
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
85
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aligning to another celestial and being attentive about your surroundings should work. If anything comes in that looks threatening, just warp out. Fix incursions today! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=60460 |
Fredfredbug4
Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control
152
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:56:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thanks for all of the responses! If you would take time to answer yet another question (I edited the OP) I would be grateful. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
557
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Unfortunately, there isn't a whole lot they can do besides being aware of their surroundings. or fit a dcu II + use all their midslots |
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
558
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 00:59:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:My question is can a fully tanked out hulk survive a gank? yes barring using 3 tornadoes to gank 1 hulk |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
308
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Update 1: Based on these suggestions that you have all posted, I have another question.
How come many miners insist that despite these precautions (which I confirmed work due to the views of actual miners), CCP should still make it nearly impossible to be suicide ganked? Because it's usually easier and more profitable to complain to the developers to get the game changed instead of adapting to difficult situations. Especially when you're a coward. |
Burhtun
Pacific Mining and Manufacturing Co-operative Nox Draconum
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Update 1: Based on these suggestions that you have all posted, I have another question.
How come many miners insist that despite these precautions (which I confirmed work due to the views of actual miners), CCP should still make it nearly impossible to be suicide ganked?
Because suicide ganking is stupid and undermines the realistic/serious air that EVE is supposed to have. If you want to disrupt a hisec mining operation it should be through the marketplace or through a war dec. That would be my reason. The real reason is people are lazy. Also they want the higher yields so they take a gamble with their fitting. |
Amarr Mech
Hedion University Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
My fool proof method to insure I will never get ganked again while mining was simply drop my acct that I used to mine. Haven't been ganked in a belt since then. |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
39
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
If I were still a miner I'd mine with a fully tanked ship, survive the gank while all others in the belt die and then mock them.
This actually sounds like fun, maybe I should try it. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1226
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:51:00 -
[26] - Quote
So recently, I was watching a TV series on bluray and put one of my characters that happens to fly a hulk into a belt in the meantime and for the first time in 7 years of playing this game, there was an attempt to suicide gank me.
No - I didn't watch local as it was in crowded highsec and I was doing something else.
The bugger didn't even manage to get through the shields of my hull-tanked Hulk.
Sure - if someone wanted to really gank me, it wouldn't be a problem, but I conclude that most of successfull suicide ganking happens against min-maxed mining alts devoid of any tanking skills and fitted for maximum greed.
If I could remember the gankers name, I would reimburse his ship. morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
558
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
true story: the belt/grav site rats in null alone are more of a threat then suicide ganking in highsec |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
3577
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 01:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
And 3 gank tornados are more than 1 t2 miner hulk meh miners fault.
then again I seen plenty of hulk kills with empty slots and im like WTF?
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Marduk Nibiru
Physical Chaos
106
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 02:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Use the in-game browser for **** so you can watch the overview and d-scan while you ****. |
Warpshade
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 02:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
1)Tank build your ship for EHP, and dont fit for cargo. 2)knowledge of the system you mine in, target rich envirnoment? at least make sure you have juicier targets next to you. 3)Observation check D-Scan, Overview, Local. 4)Locations set up bookmarks, dont just mine at the beacon of a belt. Align your ship to a exit point, again setup bookmarks.
Not 100% going to stop a good ganker, however will at least help you avoid the bad ones, or at least reduce the chance of. |
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