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The Greater Groon
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Kyle Yanowski wrote:A long time ago, there was a boy who had a father that beat him mercilessly. Every time the boy was beaten, his mother would care for him, nurture him, and comfort him. Years passed as this happened everyday; his father would beat him, and his mother would heal him. Eventually the boy grew into a man, and eventually his mother grew old and passed away. At the funeral, the boy stood over his mothers casket, yet, he could not shed a tear. No matter how hard he tried, he could not cry for the woman that cared for him after every beating. Years passed again, and eventually his father died. At his fathers funeral, the man looked down at his father, and broke down, sobbing.
+1 to whoever understands why I posted this in this thread.
Your observation that most of EVE has Stockholm Syndrome is astute.
The player base as a whole is far too fragmentend to generate the kind of "epic," content that EVE is famous for. Metagaming was not an invention of goonswarm, but they made metagaming what it is today and many non-goons supplant their own lack of gaming experience with the posting of goon members, living vicariously through the torture they inflict on other players.
In one way or another the game truly does revolve around the exponential griefplay of goonswam on the universe around us; however, that escalation has finally proved to be untenable. The increased venom has reached a potency that even many goonswam allies and members have a problem with. The reaction of the hardened player base will pale in comparison to that of the world at large.
We have reached the critical mass illustrated by the abused child looking down on the dying figure of his father. We know he is the sole source of our pain, but he also shaped our very existence in the world. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
482
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
The Greater Groon wrote:Misanth wrote:There's just noone to vote for, simple as. Precisely the problem that I struck upon. There is no vote against the goons. There is no attack on the goons. The goons have long since become the ultimate power in EVE tempered only by the aging vanguard of PL and other super-capital entities that do not see eye to eye with their policy. When fighting back in-game or by the CSM became impossible these players looked for any available opportunity to take the fight back to the goons. The opportunity presented itself with The Mittani's presentation and now we are seeing just how much everyone hates the goons, enough to ruin the game for everyone.
Why don't you write a blog about it. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Liam Mirren
378
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:19:00 -
[33] - Quote
Xython wrote:OfBalance wrote:Can someone who speaks pseudo-intellectual-pubbie translate this for me? "Har Har Har, we might be destroying EVE's reputation in the media, but we sure showed those goonies!!1"
Goons caring about EVE's reputation? Cultural victory right there.
Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
The Greater Groon
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Misanth wrote:Why don't you write a blog about it.
I will seriously consider it. |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
41
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:26:00 -
[35] - Quote
If goons are winning, why has there been so many changes to all you hold dear? Contracts changed making scamming alot tougher. Concord response time improve. Aww, no concord insurance any more? Wait, is that PvE content, and an expansion full of new player tutorial stuff? We need to do more for the rookies since replenishing our player base pays the bills. Is to bad instead of fleshing the game out we have to do this to help protect them from griefers before they quit eve prior to learning how to play it.
If eve is a pvp game, why do they keep having to cater to and do so much dev work for the new players instead of more endgame stuff? Oh, that is because the retention rate is so low because of the level of new player harassment. Hey, high sec piracy is part of eve. But CCP needs new players to keep eve. Do some of you guys ever think about that before you act and then whine not enough vet content/sov/pos work is done? Either that or is your actual goal to see eve servers shut down, I mean seriously, eve is a business, they need money. It isn't a charity for socially repressed gamers. |
The Greater Groon
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:28:00 -
[36] - Quote
Liam Mirren wrote: Goons caring about EVE's reputation? Cultural victory right there.
It is my understanding that goons have cared about the game for quite a long time, actually. This causes the paradox I mentioned earlier. Their affection for EVE as a uniquely goon-friendly environment for griefing where they are widely popular for their antics has finally met diminishing returns. The coup de grace they hoped to achieve by controlling the CSM for another term and simultaneously rubbing their dominant position into the faces of the rest of the playerbase has caused their escalating griefplay to become their achillies heel.
The cultural victory is not that they care for EVE, but that EVE players have finally questioned their own long-held "htfu," belief to try and break the stranglehold that goons and goon allies have on the game. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
551
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
The Greater Groon wrote: With each subsequent effort by the goons to up the ante, to mock the response to The Mittani's comments, to continue their pointless crusade... they come one step closer to loosing completely.
It's spelled LOSING.
L O S I N G.
One (1) "o", not 2. Not 3.
ONE (1).
In fact, exactly the same number of O's in the number ONE.
ONE.
LOSING.
Pyrrhic?
Quote:A Pyrrhic victory (/-êp+¬r+¬k/) is a victory with such a devastating cost to the victor that it carries the implication that another such victory will ultimately cause defeat.
Urm.
What devastating cost? What victory? How does the 10k votes have anything to do with what's going on now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
The Greater Groon
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:If goons are winning, why has there been so many changes to all you hold dear? Contracts changed making scamming alot tougher. Concord response time improve. Aww, no concord insurance any more? Wait, is that PvE content, and an expansion full of new player tutorial stuff? We need to do more for the rookies since replenishing our player base pays the bills. Is to bad instead of fleshing the game out we have to do this to help protect them from griefers before they quit eve prior to learning how to play it.
If eve is a pvp game, why do they keep having to cater to and do so much dev work for the new players instead of more endgame stuff? Oh, that is because the retention rate is so low because of the level of new player harassment. Hey, high sec piracy is part of eve. But CCP needs new players to keep eve. Do some of you guys ever think about that before you act and then whine not enough vet content/sov/pos work is done? Either that or is your actual goal to see eve servers shut down, I mean seriously, eve is a business, they need money. It isn't a charity for socially repressed gamers.
Quite a mis-reading of what goon "hold dear," i'm afraid.
Goonswarm and The Mittani in particular have long championed the cause of the new player. Their in-house recruitment is likely responsible for some of the highest newbie retention around. Bear in mind that they have every reason to support this over iteration on things like sov because in doing so they cement their status as the highest order of power in the game. Not only do they dominate the sov game, but they also vet the incoming newbies in a way that no other groups can.
The extrapolation of the current situation in EVE is not that the servers shut down, it's that goonswarm continues to be one of the only places where new players can thrive and the rest of the game continues to stagnate and churn under it's collective weight. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
551
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 03:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
OfBalance wrote:Can someone who speaks pseudo-intellectual-pubbie translate this for me?
"Durpa Durpa, I can user words and not spell goodz, but I think Mittani is a extra speshul bad goon. I must create alt to post with because my total lack of male/female parts makes me try to make up for my lack of being relevant."
Does that help?
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
The Greater Groon
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 03:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote: It's spelled LOSING.
Thank you for spotting my typo. I trust if you have anything content-worthy to add to your post you will do so at a later date. |
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The Greater Groon
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:36:00 -
[41] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:OfBalance wrote:Can someone who speaks pseudo-intellectual-pubbie translate this for me? "Durpa Durpa, I can user words and not spell goodz, but I think Mittani is a extra speshul bad goon. I must create alt to post with because my total lack of male/female parts makes me try to make up for my lack of being relevant." Does that help?
I think that I have been even-handed in my description of the goons and The Mittani in particular. I suppose you couldn't be asked to read the entire post, or simply don't understand the contents.
You have my sympathies if you have experienced lack of education due to a low socioeconomic status. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
482
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
The Greater Groon wrote:Misanth wrote:Why don't you write a blog about it. I will seriously consider it.
Thank you sir, then I will seriously consider reading it. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Potamus Jenkins
The Lucky Bible Company
57
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
OfBalance wrote:RougeOperator wrote:OfBalance wrote:Can someone who speaks pseudo-intellectual-pubbie translate this for me? Goons actions are self destructive in the long run. Thats about it really. Thanks m88
edit original post pls |
Markus Reese
Debitum Naturae ROMANIAN-LEGION
41
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
The Greater Groon wrote:Quite a mis-reading of what goon "hold dear," i'm afraid.
Goonswarm and The Mittani in particular have long championed the cause of the new player. Their in-house recruitment is likely responsible for some of the highest newbie retention around. Bear in mind that they have every reason to support this over iteration on things like sov because in doing so they cement their status as the highest order of power in the game. Not only do they dominate the sov game, but they also vet the incoming newbies in a way that no other groups can.
The extrapolation of the current situation in EVE is not that the servers shut down, it's that goonswarm continues to be one of the only places where new players can thrive and the rest of the game continues to stagnate and churn under it's collective weight.
Sorry, didn't mean to come off as a misreading. It was more a... cannot think of correct term... satyrical analysis of the situation. I repect the flavour goons bring to eve. The new players that join them, stay true. Also if eve shuts down, not really any other game where a goon can be a goon and have it be a part of the game mechanic. Eve is a game, but many people put time, money, and it is like any hobby. It is human nature, loss of investment brings frustration. Actions taken too far in the name of goon and eve in the end is it not more detrimental to the game environment than good? Been checking out other forums today, and the most common statement is "yup, that pretty much sums up eve"
Goons are well known, unfortunately too well known, the chest bashing kings of space goon attitude is considered by many outsiders to be what eve generally is. People want to preserve the PvP intense, harsh environment. But need new players to bring dollars. Let carebears be carebears, go hunting and thieving. Driving and keeping new players out is what is the attitude however from what I have found. I want eve to be grand, break the 100k simul log in regularily. Break 3000 man fleet fights. Get income into the game so serious and higher paced dev work can occur, but that all comes down to reputation of the game. |
Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
102
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Posted - 2012.03.28 03:53:00 -
[45] - Quote
Us goons've self destructed about four or five times now and then we rebuild and then we self destruct again. It's a natural cycle characterized by massive, hilarious thefts on the part of the CEO, and we've all come to love and respect it. Quit thinking there'll be a gotterdammerung for us because frankly waiting for the next failure to pay the bills is half the fun.
If we do go, it'll be because the game got boring. |
Akai Kvaesir
0ffice of Naval Intelligence
19
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 04:37:00 -
[46] - Quote
The Anti-Swarm is upon us. |
Mistress Lilu
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
61
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 05:02:00 -
[47] - Quote
The Greater Groon wrote:stoicfaux wrote: The Goons comprise at most 2.8% of the player base. Are you really saying that 2.8% of the accounts are dominating the 355,000+ accounts in Eve? If the Goons were really that bothersome, the Non-Goon portion of the player base would wipe them out.
In point of fact this is what we are beginning to see. But EVE does not make the elimination of goonswarm a possibility without serious metagaming. The upheaval against the Mittani is not simply a response to some suicidal man being pushed by bullies from somethingawful.com. This uprising is the community at-large, or at least those not aligned with the goons, doing all they can to strike back at the entity which has positioned itself firmly atop the heap. EVE is a game of power blocks. It is a game of trust. Goons have the largest contiguous block of semi-trustworthy players as their backbone. Any entity seeking to physically remove their from their space would be met with the largest armada ever seen in the game. Any voting block attempting to usurp their candidate would be trying to corral the interests of a huge number of disparate voting communities, almost none of whom trust one another at all. Ultimately, the only card that the anti-goons have to play is to strike at the heart of the swam. They have to undermine the very thing that keeps goonswarm logging in from day to day and that is their ability to thrive on the pain and suffering of other players. When the forums are up in arms about unseating The Mittani, banning him, or regulating the grief tactics utilized by goonswam they are doing the only thing they can to fight back against the goons. As I alluded to in the OP, the commoners really had no official recourse for sadistic and greedy nobles in the middle ages. The violent uprisings prior to the enlightenment could have been avoided, but for the hubris of these characters. It is patently obvious that we are seeing the very same thing happening right now. The majority know that their cause is hopeless and they are doing only that which they are able to do to strike at the interests of their oppressor. all i got was blabblahblah, blahblah,blahbhahblbhalbhahbl, blah. All empires crumble, mostly due to their stupidity, arrogance, greed, selfishness, and many other things. I think this is the start of the end for goons, and I really am happy for it. All goonfans got from my post, blahblahblah, anti goons, I think the same. let trolls be trolls and troll.
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Avid Bumhumper
Furian Necromongers
46
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 05:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
Akai Kvaesir wrote:The CCD is upon us.
Fixed that for you....
My Tinfoil hat has been sugically implanted, so no,it is not for sale..... |
Akai Kvaesir
0ffice of Naval Intelligence
19
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 05:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
Avid Bumhumper wrote:Akai Kvaesir wrote:The CCD is upon us. Fixed that for you.... So kind of you to post something SO original. I'll sleep better knowing your out there fixing all my mistakes. By the way, would like to fix the situation of the CSM7? I'm sure CCP would LOVE your input. |
Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
401
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 05:25:00 -
[50] - Quote
I hate to ruin your lead, but 10,000 isn't a mandate from a playerbase of 250,000 people (give or take.) The mandate? As I said before the electioneering began, APATHY won this election, as it has won all the ones before.
If you want to get down and dirty with a psych read, nailbiting is nailbiting, digital nailbiting is digital nailbiting. There is never enough, and there is no goal. However, with digital nailbiting, there's no physical gratification of actually tearing flesh. It amounts to mouse clicks and keyboard pressing - face-rolling after a while.
Even goons have a low tolerance for blind repetition. What dooms them is what they are, indeed. They've embarked on an enterprise that leads to nothing, satisfies nothing, and will become mundane enough to make their little minds wander soon enough.
What you don't say is another possibility. Suppose Goonwaffle decides to go trash Dora the Explorer, 'cause nothing they do in EVE satisfies their digital nailbiting urges anymore. You say thousands of subs will be lost? True dat. But, with the exodus of this ilk will come news of it, and thousands who refuse to play as long as they're here will subscribe as soon as they learn they're gone.
Eve-olution. It's a nice thing. Let nature take its course.
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |
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Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
484
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 05:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
The Greater Groon wrote:so many words tl;dr goons are killing eve, news at 11 |
The Greater Groon
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 06:13:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sidus Sarmiang wrote:Us goons've self destructed about four or five times now and then we rebuild and then we self destruct again. It's a natural cycle characterized by massive, hilarious thefts on the part of the CEO, and we've all come to love and respect it. Quit thinking there'll be a gotterdammerung for us because frankly waiting for the next failure to pay the bills is half the fun.
Definitely a truth post. You are right about goons imploding on a regular basis. The observation was that only implosion can actually cause Goons a setback. Not to mention: history has shown that even catastrophic levels of "****-goons," do not set them back for very long. |
The Greater Groon
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 06:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Brings up an interesting point, would goons be a powerhouse if eve was more mainstream and had a larger playerbase? Would the demographic change result in them being outclassed as a powerblock?
To the best of my knowledge there is no other corporation, alliance, guild, club, or anything similar which can boast a larger membership count than goons do in EVE. Anyone attempting to engineer a powerblock larger than the CFC, which draws on more than just SA already, would need to tap a base of players larger than what most mmo severs can handle at prime time.
I can't imagine that happening, but if goons actually had a substantial nemesis in the game which could match their numbers I believe it would be great for the game. |
Akai Kvaesir
0ffice of Naval Intelligence
20
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 06:47:00 -
[54] - Quote
The Greater Groon wrote:Markus Reese wrote:Brings up an interesting point, would goons be a powerhouse if eve was more mainstream and had a larger playerbase? Would the demographic change result in them being outclassed as a powerblock? To the best of my knowledge there is no other corporation, alliance, guild, club, or anything similar which can boast a larger membership count than goons do in EVE. Anyone attempting to engineer a powerblock larger than the CFC, which draws on more than just SA already, would need to tap a base of players larger than what most mmo severs can handle at prime time. I can't imagine that happening, but if goons actually had a substantial nemesis in the game which could match their numbers I believe it would be great for the game. Hence, the Anti-Swarm. Why not make some good PR while taking down the evil empire? The victory would be even more enjoyable than the war, as you would have hundreds of corps and alliances suddenly turning on one another, filling the power vacuum. Once the Goons are defeated, that is. One goal, many paths. |
Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
118
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 06:48:00 -
[55] - Quote
Frankly, the only backlash I'm thinking we need is some backlash against Hollywood. Why didn't they make Roadhouse 2? |
The Greater Groon
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 06:58:00 -
[56] - Quote
Akai Kvaesir wrote:The Greater Groon wrote:Markus Reese wrote:Brings up an interesting point, would goons be a powerhouse if eve was more mainstream and had a larger playerbase? Would the demographic change result in them being outclassed as a powerblock? To the best of my knowledge there is no other corporation, alliance, guild, club, or anything similar which can boast a larger membership count than goons do in EVE. Anyone attempting to engineer a powerblock larger than the CFC, which draws on more than just SA already, would need to tap a base of players larger than what most mmo severs can handle at prime time. I can't imagine that happening, but if goons actually had a substantial nemesis in the game which could match their numbers I believe it would be great for the game. Hence, the Anti-Swarm. Why not make some good PR while taking down the evil empire? The victory would be even more enjoyable than the war, as you would have hundreds of corps and alliances suddenly turning on one another, filling the power vacuum. Once the Goons are defeated, that is. One goal, many paths.
As I said earlier, EVE is a trust game which honestly requires a common origin for players who want to organize in large numbers. You could try to build a 10,000 strong coalition on nothing more than dissolute "anti-goon," sentiment, but it would be doomed to fail from the get go. I would give any such up-start a few weeks before they were completely riddled with spies, awoxed, and hotdropped into oblivion.
Assuming you meant organizing the non-CFC alliances for the task: most of them hate one another far more than they hate goonswarm and I find it hard to believe any of them could put aside their differences for what amounts to pushing the reset button on goon sov. for a few months. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
435
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 06:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
You all know you are here to play the game how you want right? You know everyone has the ability to do so? Thats the great thing about Eve Online, you do what you want. So stop worrying about what GSF are doing and go play the game your way. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
The Greater Groon
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 07:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
Rico Minali wrote:You all know you are here to play the game how you want right? You know everyone has the ability to do so? Thats the great thing about Eve Online, you do what you want. So stop worrying about what GSF are doing and go play the game your way.
I don't feel worried and I agree with your assessment of the sandbox being great because it allows for a plethora of gameplay. All I am offering here is a dispassionate accounting of what I view as the pushback against increasing goonswarm influence and staying power on EVE. |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
318
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 07:11:00 -
[59] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Reality Check: 10,058 votes for Mittani. Let's assume they're all Goons. 59,109 votes were cast for the CSM. Voter turnout was a measly 16.63%. Which means there were 59,109 /.1663 = 355,436 eligible voters. 10,058 / 355,436 = 2.8% The Goons comprise at most 2.8% of the player base. Are you really saying that 2.8% of the accounts are dominating the 355,000+ accounts in Eve? If the Goons were really that bothersome, the Non-Goon portion of the player base would wipe them out. source for numbers: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28529 This. Less than 3% of the whole subscriber base and they think that they run the whole game. The other 97% don't give a flaming **** what a measley 3% want. yk
They don't give a flaming **** about anything, that is why they didn't vote. |
Isaias Riorden
Internet Space Ship Game
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 07:12:00 -
[60] - Quote
Still better than a Xenuria thread |
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