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Hormone1971
Caldari silvestrus
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Posted - 2008.09.17 05:15:00 -
[1]
These both take me about 108 days to train to fly one.
I have about 5.4mill SP at the moment.
So I find myself wondering which way to go and train towards.
Any advice for one over the other and also please state your reasoning.
Cheers Folks.
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.17 05:38:00 -
[2]
The nighthawk is cheaper but generally a golem will mow down lev4's to 5's faster (use torps). It will probably require a little longer to train golem than nighthawk actuall, due to t2 bs weapons and target paiting, etc.
Awesome EVE history
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.09.17 07:03:00 -
[3]
The main advantage the NH has in that equation is lower cost to get an adequate perma tank (T2 gear will do it for L4). The other advantage is that its weaponry can be used against any size target with a fair degree of success. A Golem will be reliant on drones to take out frigates whereas a Nighthawk pilot can use his missiles without wasting much ammo. Given how drones sometimes go a bit wrong and can attract attention from piwats that can be handy.
The downside of the NH is somewhat gimped damage output. It's plenty good enough for L4 missions (a well setup NH will be as fast if not a little faster than a standard Raven) but it's not in the same league as the Golem. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Hormone1971
Caldari silvestrus
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Posted - 2008.09.17 07:16:00 -
[4]
based on that last post, would it be much to cross train. Meaning say i went the nighthawk option, would it take long to fly a Golem too or visa versa??
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.17 07:30:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 17/09/2008 07:35:35
Originally by: Andrue The main advantage the NH has in that equation is lower cost to get an adequate perma tank (T2 gear will do it for L4).
Its easy to fit a T2 permatank on the Golem which is stronger than the NHs one.
Rest /signed NH is more comfortable, costs not too much and is cool, it can run a passive tank which is good for Neuttower Missions Golem kills all above Frigs faster and is able to tank more with the right equip
Both has Advantages.
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Tolsimir Wolfblood
X.S. Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.17 07:32:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Tolsimir Wolfblood on 17/09/2008 07:35:46
to be honest with u i think it takes longer to get into a nighthawk then a golem.
1st: u need engenering and mechanic to lvl 5, frig of chosen race to lvl4 or 5 if u want to use said assault ship and ship command of lvl 4 in order to learn assault ships.
2nd: u need space ship command of 5, assault ships to lvl4, cruisers to lvl 5 and weapons upgrade to lvl 5 in order to use heavy assault ships.
3rd: u need leader ship to lvl 5, war fare link specalist to lvl4, heavy assault ships to lvl4 and battle cruisers to lvl 5 in order to use command ships.
4th: in order to use the command ship effectivly u need command ship to at least lvl4 to lvl 5.
Thats a tone of skilling for just the ship alone. Not to mention various other skills to fit it and fit it well. I cant compare the skills with the golem as i am at work but one would think that the nighthawk would take much longer.
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JenDen
Caldari The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2008.09.17 09:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tolsimir Wolfblood one would think that the nighthawk would take much longer.
apparently it's not true, battleship lvl5 beats everything :) - Sig: StackNerfing * GangLinks |
Tolsimir Wolfblood
X.S. Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.17 10:01:00 -
[8]
LOL. Battle Ship 5 took me 28 days. Yet cruiser and battle cruiser to 5 combined takes like 40 sumthing days.
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royal killer
Amarr The Funkalistic
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Posted - 2008.09.17 11:10:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tolsimir Wolfblood LOL. Battle Ship 5 took me 28 days. Yet cruiser and battle cruiser to 5 combined takes like 40 sumthing days.
Now, try adding Energy grid upgrades level 5 and Advanged Weapon Upgrades level 5 to ur maths... --------------------
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: Hello and w
*ding ding!*
Wrangler: ...damn nanowhiners. |
whisk
Gallente The Movement
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Posted - 2008.09.17 11:25:00 -
[10]
you think that you will still be running missions after 108days?
Adapt or Die
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.09.17 12:30:00 -
[11]
Golem will drop Battleships and such much faster, and is a much better choice for people who can be bothered to salvage (generally)
I just hate the name...
I use a Nighthawk, it looks nicer and does more than enough DPS with a half-decent fit. Plus it's incredibly easy to permatank it, both Passive and Active.
- Infectious - |
Amezyarak
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Posted - 2008.09.17 12:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: whisk you think that you will still be running missions after 108days?
How else would he make money? Mining (ugh . . )?
Certainly not from PvP, I think.
I'm going to assume that things like production and POS-related things are s till a ways off for him, and require a huge ISK outlay.
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Patriarch Novak
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Posted - 2008.09.17 14:42:00 -
[13]
for lvl 4 missions i would say golem for it's higher dps
for lvl 5 missions it depends on who the tank is (you can't run them solo) to tank lvl 5s a remote repped full passive nighthawk is better than the golem as most of them have neut towers - which sometimes respawn, so killing them first is not an option - and the tank's cap will be nuked very fast
i've run a few lvl 5 missions and the tank had no cap when the mission was complete - he kept *****ing about the number of times he dropped out of warp because he had no cap |
Kira Pasisson
M'8'S Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.09.17 17:32:00 -
[14]
both are entire different ways to skill so crosstraining will need quite a while.... u have to look which ship-size u prefer...there are guys who prefer cruiser/bc-size and there are those who prefer bs...try to find out with t1ships which u like more...until then skill average basics u need for both like shield tank and missile support.... concerning lvl4 missions...i see the big advantage of the nighthawk in two tings: a) ability to get rid of tacklers fast....killing everything up to bc extremely fast b) 6 launcher.....the golem suffers under defender missiles quite hard when using cruise (which afaik most ppl do due to limited torp range and torps being senseless vs cruisers etc.....)
true, the golem should be better vs bs...but still dont underestimate the def-missile factor...
finally it depends on ur flying preference but i heard friends saying that they even prefer the navy raven cause of the defender missile problem
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.17 17:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kira Pasisson b) 6 launcher.....the golem suffers under defender missiles quite hard when using cruise (which afaik most ppl do due to limited torp range and torps being senseless vs cruisers etc.....)
true, the golem should be better vs bs...but still dont underestimate the def-missil e factor...
finally it depends on ur flying preference but i heard friends saying that they even prefer the navy raven cause of the defender missile problem
There is no Defender missile Problem. Thats rubbish. Defenders are chancebased. All the tests IG and the statements of the Devs confirmed this. Everyone should know this, cause it was discussed in the Forums. Golem can kill Cruisers wit one Volley, so only Frigs are a Problem. But best way to fly the Golem is with Rangerigs and Torps about 60km Range is enough for every Mission. I fly a Nighthawk, a CNR and a Golem. Nighthawk is the most comfortable but slowest. Cruise CNR and Cruise Golem kills stuff with the same Speed. Torpgolem is the fastest of my Missileboats.
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whisk
Gallente The Movement
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Posted - 2008.09.17 21:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Amezyarak
Originally by: whisk you think that you will still be running missions after 108days?
How else would he make money? Mining (ugh . . )?
Certainly not from PvP, I think.
I'm going to assume that things like production and POS-related things are s till a ways off for him, and require a huge ISK outlay.
you can make money from PvP
join alliance that do roaming in gangs, fit salvager and salvage t2 wrecks! and take good loot
oh and dont die
and ocationaly you can NPC in 0.0
Adapt or Die
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Hormone1971
Caldari silvestrus
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Posted - 2008.09.17 22:35:00 -
[17]
I have an alt that is in manufacture so this character will not be doing that at all.
Originally by: Amezyarak
Originally by: whisk you think that you will still be running missions after 108days?
How else would he make money? Mining (ugh . . )?
Certainly not from PvP, I think.
I'm going to assume that things like production and POS-related things are s till a ways off for him, and require a huge ISK outlay.
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Catharacta
Caldari Carebear Cavalry
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Posted - 2008.09.18 01:31:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Catharacta on 18/09/2008 01:31:33
Originally by: Kira Pasisson
b) 6 launcher.....the golem suffers under defender missiles quite hard when using cruise
Not this **** again....
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Hormone1971
Caldari silvestrus
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Posted - 2008.09.18 01:59:00 -
[19]
If this info helps, I can only play for short periods of time, often only a hour long as I have a young child with demands. So bearing that in mind when doing a mission as often I have to do the mission in I hour. Perhaps the better ship is the one that will enable me to finish the mission quicker??
Based on your comments, I donĘt think there is a clear winner.
I would think I would need to solo level 4 missions (due to limited playing windows) and level 5 eventually I understand is practically impossible or foolhardy to solo.
Any further comments to help the decision.
And if you need any more info from me to enable a more clear answer?
Thanks again folks.
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Tolsimir Wolfblood
X.S. Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.18 02:06:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Tolsimir Wolfblood on 18/09/2008 02:07:48
Originally by: royal killer
Originally by: Tolsimir Wolfblood LOL. Battle Ship 5 took me 28 days. Yet cruiser and battle cruiser to 5 combined takes like 40 sumthing days.
Now, try adding Energy grid upgrades level 5 and Advanged Weapon Upgrades level 5 to ur maths...
Every one knows that u need both of those skills at least at lvl 4 or lvl 5 inorder to put a good fit on the nighthawk b/c it lacks CPU and Pwr Grid. Unless u have absolutly no life and made enough isk to put faction or dead space mods on the thing. In my mind its ludacris to do that b/c its really not worth it b/c the Golem with just a T2 fit would smoke it in any mission.
Originally by: Catharacta Edited by: Catharacta on 18/09/2008 01:31:33
Originally by: Kira Pasisson
b) 6 launcher.....the golem suffers under defender missiles quite hard when using cruise
Not this **** again....
Seriously now. People need to get away from the cruise raven and cruise CNR to use the golem. The golem is suppose to use torps. Get away from your normal cruise set up and u will find your self 2 vollying BS and insta poping BC and cruisers in missions thanks to the target painter ur supose to have on the ship and by the way torps need two defender missles to kill them.
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Gul Rashen
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.09.18 10:15:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Gul Rashen on 18/09/2008 10:34:43
Originally by: Hormone1971 enable me to finish the mission quicker??
Based on your comments, I donĘt think there is a clear winner.
No clear Winner in Missiontimes?
Golem finishs the Missions much quicker. For many Mission i need only half the time i need with the NH. Theres no lvl4 Mission i can't finish under 40mins(clearing all Stages). Most Missions take 5-15mins.
NH has a good Killspeed against NPCs that are weak against Kin-DMG but the Golem is also against those NPCs much faster. Against NPCs with a high Kinresi the Killspeed of the NH is slow cause you have only a Kin DMG-Bonus.
If its only depends on Killspeed take a Torpgolem. It has the fastest Killspeed of the Missileboats without Fittingproblems. If you wanna fly with CMs take a Golem or a CNR. CNR has the same Killspeed, needs less Skills and Money at the price of a weaker Tank, less Shipspeed, Fittingoptions aso.
The NH has only 2 Advantages for lvl 4/5 Missions. You can fit it with a passive Tank for those lvl 5 Missions with Neut-Towers its cheaper and its fun to play.
All other Points go to the Golem. Active it has a stronger Tank, much higher Killspeed, needs less Skills, can fit Torps with >60km, finishs Missions with T2 Fitting quicker than NH with Factionfitting...
Don't misunderstand me. I love my NH. But i love it for its Style and not for its Killspeed.
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Mia Fatalis
Caldari Radioactive Squirrel Squad
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Posted - 2008.09.19 16:30:00 -
[22]
Golem is far more epic than the nighthawk, but both ships are quite good (and sexy).
the correct ship for lvl 4's is a torp golem though, (at least for caldari) its just good. Torps are immune to npc defenders, have enough range with t2 torps (60km), and the ship tanks amazingly well. 1000+ dps is easily attainable, and you can gather your wrecks, or salvage as you go.
also bare in mind that the required skills are mostly required anyway if you plan to be a capital pilot, or dedicated to the battleship (besides that dumb energy grid whatever).
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Red Harvest
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Posted - 2008.09.19 17:31:00 -
[23]
While the Golem is usually much faster in killing the npcs there is but one thing to keep in mind that counts for the NH: passiv tank. Some of the lvl5 mission feature quite a few neut towers which can be a bloody pain for any active tank and are safest done with a passiv tanked NH (or capital ).
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Impolite Andevil
The Shadow Knights Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.09.19 20:24:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Impolite Andevil on 19/09/2008 20:24:54 For peak isk/hr, the golem is a clear winner. The NH is slower than a CNR, which is slower than a golem in all but a few cases.
For ease of missioning, especially if you don't salvage, use the NH - it can tank L4's indefinitely with a fairly cheap tank.
As far as training time goes, the NH really requires just about all the shield tanking skills to L5 as well, so I would expect it to be pretty similar to a golem. However, if you are interested in PVP, the Golem gives you the skills for a nice torp raven, but a NH doesn't give you much for PVP. Drakes are ok, but nothing special. Caldari command ships are not that great, and definitely not worth the isk for PVP. The Cerb and Eagle are not bad, but not really worth the isk and are niche ships. So, if you want PVP later, go with the golem.
Oh, and L5 missions? Don't. They are not worth anywhere near the effort needed for them.
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