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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 05:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
So CCP is going to change to dec system so that you can no longer scrape a dec with a dec shield. Also, there is going to be a price break for deccing small corps (they're going to a base price + target member count system). We will also be getting extreme rigs and drone damage mods.
From what I can see, this pretty much spells the end of any high sec POSes smaller than larges, and even those might be in trouble. Sentry drone pretty much make ECM mods useless. If Sentries start doing descent damage all you've really got as a deterrent is a large enough amount of EHP.
This change really needs to happen with a POS overhaul. You think inflations bad now, wait until we start loosing a bunch of industrial capacity. |
Maria Yumeno
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 07:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Source? |
Aubrey Addams
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 08:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
why? if i know correctly, now its 2mill to wardec some1, but it will be 20+mill in the future. |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 09:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
20M/week against a POS owner isn't all that significant. It's a billion ISK+ venture costing ~15M/day in fuel and can be ransomed for far, far more than a wardec.
Defensive alliances are where it's at. All the POS operators in an area (everyone within 2 jumps, say) should band together and all join any wars, sending a few mercs each; then it would take a very powerful aggressor to get anything done. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
80
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 10:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
It will become very easy to hire mercs. Simple. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Rengerel en Distel
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
20
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 11:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
As much as i'd like to worry about the changes coming in the winter expansion, i'd rather worry about the summer one first. Actually, i'll wait until they actually post something beyond a roundtable.
Don't assume bad intent, when stupidity is the much more likely cause. |
Raven Ether
Republic University Minmatar Republic
115
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 11:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rigs and Drone damage mods?
For non sentry drones too? About time. |
Jurinak
Roboticslaboratorium
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 13:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Posshoting is boring as hell (next to icemining) nobody cares about your f... Highsec Pos if you are not 2j away from Jita. So cool down
And if someone shoot it...dont have any friends?? Ok you dont have. no prob at all. But a Tower doesn t cost more then a HAC so... who cares? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
461
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 13:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jurinak wrote:Posshoting is boring as hell (next to icemining) nobody cares about your f... Highsec Pos if you are not 2j away from Jita. So cool down
And if someone shoot it...dont have any friends?? Ok you dont have. no prob at all. But a Tower doesn t cost more then a HAC so... who cares?
It's not the cost. It's the hassle of re-anchoring, etc. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 13:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jurinak wrote:Posshoting is boring as hell (next to icemining) nobody cares about your f... Highsec Pos if you are not 2j away from Jita. So cool down
And if someone shoot it...dont have any friends?? Ok you dont have. no prob at all. But a Tower doesn t cost more then a HAC so... who cares?
And a tower's the only thing to lose?.. What about multiple 100M labs? A month's worth of fuel (450M for a large)? Things in construction (in 60M facilities)... It's an expensive proposition. |
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Jurinak
Roboticslaboratorium
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 14:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote:Jurinak wrote:Posshoting is boring as hell (next to icemining) nobody cares about your f... Highsec Pos if you are not 2j away from Jita. So cool down
And if someone shoot it...dont have any friends?? Ok you dont have. no prob at all. But a Tower doesn t cost more then a HAC so... who cares? And a tower's the only thing to lose?.. What about multiple 100M labs? A month's worth of fuel (450M for a large)? Things in construction (in 60M facilities)... It's an expensive proposition.
Yes the Tower is the only thing you loose, you can unanchor the labs when wardec is incomming or you can gamble if the attack the tower or not, its your joice. The only thing what happens is that you feel a little bit annoyed by anchor and unanchor and maybe you loose a longrun copy job
If you thing all this is to bad to do it then feel free to use NPC Station, then you have to wait a little bit or buy copy and research from someone else
And again there are no juggernauts with "YARRRRR we destroy all your Highsectower!!!!11111"
It is boring, it happens from time to time but not on a regular basis. And if it happens and you have no friends then hire merc or unanchor your labs whatever, its not 100% save anymore and that is fine |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 14:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jurinak wrote:Aurel Svenson wrote:Jurinak wrote:Posshoting is boring as hell (next to icemining) nobody cares about your f... Highsec Pos if you are not 2j away from Jita. So cool down
And if someone shoot it...dont have any friends?? Ok you dont have. no prob at all. But a Tower doesn t cost more then a HAC so... who cares? And a tower's the only thing to lose?.. What about multiple 100M labs? A month's worth of fuel (450M for a large)? Things in construction (in 60M facilities)... It's an expensive proposition. Yes the Tower is the only thing you loose, you can unanchor the labs when wardec is incomming or you can gamble if the attack the tower or not, its your joice. The only thing what happens is that you feel a little bit annoyed by anchor and unanchor and maybe you loose a longrun copy job If you thing all this is to bad to do it then feel free to use NPC Station, then you have to wait a little bit or buy copy and research from someone else And again there are no juggernauts with "YARRRRR we destroy all your Highsectower!!!!11111" It is boring, it happens from time to time but not on a regular basis. And if it happens and you have no friends then hire merc or unanchor your labs whatever, its not 100% save anymore and that is fine
Heh, hadn't considered the period between the wardec and the siege. I'll quietly bow out now... You could remove the tower too, couldn't you, and just lose the spot?
|
bornaa
GRiD.
138
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 14:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
This all ****** new war dec system is putting a barrier so that you cant war dec goons or test because it will cost you 5 BILLION isk per week.
You see, CCP want to secure large alliances from decs and screw smaller corps/alliances so that large one can easily attack them directly or with alt corps. And as i can see, they are really struggling to kill industry in EVE - no fixes or upgrades for indy players for years while making better ganking ships and now they want make so that everybody war decs them.
Nice one CCP.
And one more thing, when you are attacked you can't do anything about it. Attacker can easily get out of it - even if CCP is advertising this will make war more of commitment - yea, commitment for indy and smal corps to be screwed. |
Kirith Vespira
Border Zone Excursions
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 16:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:So CCP is going to change to dec system so that you can no longer scrape a dec with a dec shield. Also, there is going to be a price break for deccing small corps (they're going to a base price + target member count system). We will also be getting extreme rigs and drone damage mods.
From what I can see, this pretty much spells the end of any high sec POSes smaller than larges, and even those might be in trouble. Sentry drone pretty much make ECM mods useless. If Sentries start doing descent damage all you've really got as a deterrent is a large enough amount of EHP.
This change really needs to happen with a POS overhaul. You think inflations bad now, wait until we start loosing a bunch of industrial capacity.
Please cite a Dev Blog for your announcement.
Thanks. |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 16:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
Since you're allowed to bring in allies, defensive alliances could offer a great deal of protection. It would be great if they could formalize that. If some bullies are working over POS owners, it's in the interest of local POS owners to contribute mercs to the conflict and make sure the aggressors never enter the system(s) again. And POS owners don't tend to be poor, so it should be manageable...
Just need to overcome the bystander effect.
Maybe a system could even hire a merc corp to set up shop full time, running their missions nearby and joining any wars that threaten the system. |
Avila Cracko
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
238
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 16:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
I am all against this ****** "lets **** small and indy corps" changes.
source, FanFest: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4u0H3WA_UYA
And, listen to questions that people asked on the end. They all was worried about changes, and CCP gave the same lame answer. |
Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
173
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 17:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Personally, I would like to know how CCP would like to address the very real possibility of someone just making over 9000 trial account characters to inflate corp membership. If trial accounts are to be excluded from some "internal" member count, then it's not that difficult to convert these accounts into subscribing accounts with the PLEX deal for a month and then ditch them, it still won't cost you anything other than time taken to do so.
Determining "inactive" member count and basing stuff off of that seems like it might not work so well. I mean, someone really dedicated and bored could just keep cranking out trial account alts and removing those who are past their "free" play time from the corp, thus keeping high numbers of fake active members by logging them in every once in a while.
Anyway, still seems exploitable |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 18:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote:20M/week against a POS owner isn't all that significant. It's a billion ISK+ venture costing ~15M/day in fuel and can be ransomed for far, far more than a wardec.
Defensive alliances are where it's at. All the POS operators in an area (everyone within 2 jumps, say) should band together and all join any wars, sending a few mercs each; then it would take a very powerful aggressor to get anything done.
So by deccing one group you can get a target rich environment? Same reason people dec goons now even though it costs billions, you're assured to get some kills.
|
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 18:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Aurel Svenson wrote:20M/week against a POS owner isn't all that significant. It's a billion ISK+ venture costing ~15M/day in fuel and can be ransomed for far, far more than a wardec.
Defensive alliances are where it's at. All the POS operators in an area (everyone within 2 jumps, say) should band together and all join any wars, sending a few mercs each; then it would take a very powerful aggressor to get anything done. So by deccing one group you can get a target rich environment? Same reason people dec goons now even though it costs billions, you're assured to get some kills.
Hmm, good point. I guess the group could submit money for a single large merc hire so that only one target is vulnerable but there's still collective defense. |
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
218
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 18:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Whilst I certainly have some concerns about the proposed changes, many of which are noted above, it's worth keeping some context.
Dec shields were only quite recently moved to non-exploit status.
So a year or so ago, with dec shield an exploit, what did it take to dec a small research pos corp? If memory serves, 2 million isk dec fee and a 48 hour wait.
With the propsed changes what will it take to dec a small research pos corp? If I've read things right, it'll take c.20 million isk dec fee and a 24 hour wait.
Given that small and medium POS owning baby research corps existed a year ago quite happily - that is they got stomped on if unlucky/stupid/wrong place, wrong time but otherwise were overlooked - I can't really see this situation changing much under the proposed system. Ie. it's cheap and easy to stomp on small corps and their space assets, just as it (mostly) always has been. |
|
Josie Alland
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 18:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:It will become very easy to hire mercs. Simple. You mean the same mercs who initiated the wardec using an alt corp? Or the ones who will take your money and do nothing? |
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 20:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
Josie Alland wrote:Tobiaz wrote:It will become very easy to hire mercs. Simple. You mean the same mercs who initiated the wardec using an alt corp? Or the ones who will take your money and do nothing?
what about the merc who work for free? they will be some cuz they dont have to pay for the war that way get more targets. To kill a large tower with ecm mods hardener and stuff going to be a bunch of targets. Also you are not limited by the amount of corps you can hire/invite to the war the attacker cant invite anyone. The attacker is stuck in the wardec for 1 week. I think wardec will backfire on alot of people. |
Zarific
Frekmacinations
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 20:39:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tekota wrote:Whilst I certainly have some concerns about the proposed changes, many of which are noted above, it's worth keeping some context.
Dec shields were only quite recently moved to non-exploit status.
So a year or so ago, with dec shield an exploit, what did it take to dec a small research pos corp? If memory serves, 2 million isk dec fee and a 48 hour wait.
With the propsed changes what will it take to dec a small research pos corp? If I've read things right, it'll take c.20 million isk dec fee and a 24 hour wait.
Given that small and medium POS owning baby research corps existed a year ago quite happily - that is they got stomped on if unlucky/stupid/wrong place, wrong time but otherwise were overlooked - I can't really see this situation changing much under the proposed system. Ie. it's cheap and easy to stomp on small corps and their space assets, just as it (mostly) always has been.
I beleive incentives have changed. From what I understood they are revamping the entire system, to the point that you can "pay off" for a system enforced 7 day dec free period. IE: Get wardecced, pay 75m to surrender, accepted by deccing corp as "payment" and they cannot redec for 7 days.
This gives an incentive to war dec and force payments that, from what I understand, is not currently available. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Zar |
Severian Carnifex
119
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 22:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
The worst change CCP made. So again you want to screw little ppl and make love with big guys? Again you want to make ppl that don't want to PVP make the best/only war target??? You want that large alliances even don't need neutral alts for hi-sec hauling????? I see that you want to make large alliances safe everywhere and **** small so that they must disband. Thnx a lot... NOT!
make little guy pay 5B and large alliance 40 mill? Yea, thats the best. Screw the little guy, make so that everybody screw him, and he cant do anything about it, and make him leave the game. |
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
179
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 23:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
Severian Carnifex wrote:The worst change CCP made. So again you want to screw little ppl and make love with big guys? Again you want to make ppl that don't want to PVP make the best/only war target??? You want that large alliances even don't need neutral alts for hi-sec hauling????? I see that you want to make large alliances safe everywhere and **** small so that they must disband. Thnx a lot... NOT!
make little guy pay 5B and large alliance 40 mill? Yea, thats the best. Screw the little guy, make so that everybody screw him, and he cant do anything about it, and make him leave the game.
I think you missed the point.
And I agree with Tekota this change will at worst bring things back to how they were a year ago when war dec shields were an exploit and not an option. Chill - unless you really make someone angry at you, or have a loot pi+¦ata of a POS, for the most part you will be ignored.
And incidentally this provides an interesting incentive for small corps to become bigger corps... now if only they fixed POS's and the corp interface so that you could actually run a decent sized industrial corp without having to give everyone massive access rights to damage your work and your assets... |
Maria Yumeno
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
7 days after surrender seems a little short. If i were a merc, i would wait out the 7 day timer and re-dec as i knew i would get paid again for no effort :) It would bring in a good weekly income |
Sidrat Flush
Eve Industrial Corp
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 04:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Maria Yumeno wrote:7 days after surrender seems a little short. If i were a merc, i would wait out the 7 day timer and re-dec as i knew i would get paid again for no effort :) It would bring in a good weekly income
Or it could be a month in which case you only need to find about 8 small but rich corps and cycle between them. That's more regular than moon mining!
|
LifeHatesMe
SKULLDOGS RED.OverLord
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
Katarina Reid wrote:what about the merc who work for free? they will be some cuz they dont have to pay for the war that way get more targets. To kill a large tower with ecm mods hardener and stuff going to be a bunch of targets. Also you are not limited by the amount of corps you can hire/invite to the war the attacker cant invite anyone. The attacker is stuck in the wardec for 1 week. I think wardec will backfire on alot of people. What game are you playing? There are no mercs like that. Not in the 6+ years I've been playing.
Maria Yumeno wrote:7 days after surrender seems a little short. If i were a merc, i would wait out the 7 day timer and re-dec as i knew i would get paid again for no effort :) It would bring in a good weekly income lol god, bring the popcorn.
Apparently they will make it so after you surrender with the moola in hand, they can't war dec you back for a whole week. I already see the issue. Lets make a rolling corp of war dec corps; Privateer Alliance 1 Privateer Alliance 2 Privateer Alliance 3 Privateer Alliance 4 Privateer Alliance 5 Privateer Alliance 6
etc. Do they really think things through at all before they post fixes for these war dec things? |
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
149
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
LifeHatesMe wrote:Katarina Reid wrote:what about the merc who work for free? they will be some cuz they dont have to pay for the war that way get more targets. To kill a large tower with ecm mods hardener and stuff going to be a bunch of targets. Also you are not limited by the amount of corps you can hire/invite to the war the attacker cant invite anyone. The attacker is stuck in the wardec for 1 week. I think wardec will backfire on alot of people. What game are you playing? There are no mercs like that. Not in the 6+ years I've been playing.
Well wardecs after the change will cost alot. To dec goons u need 4b /week eve uni 800m /week. On my pvp alt i will join a big dec ally where they pay the dec's or just get add to dec's for free as a defender. More targets free is a good thing. |
Nevryn Takis
University of Caille Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Well CCP wanted to nerf industry completely and they've just succeeded. If you're not part of a large alliance (read one of the 3 power block alliances) or in a npc corp, you can be griefed (sorry leggally wardeced) out of the game. This means NO POS's at all unless you part of a massive alliance block, so all the small industrials are now dead. Long live Goons. If this goes through then I'll be un-subbing - I doubt you'll miss me and I won't be shedding any tears. |
|
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
25
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:56:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nevryn Takis wrote:Well CCP wanted to nerf industry completely and they've just succeeded. If you're not part of a large alliance (read one of the 3 power block alliances) or in a npc corp, you can be griefed (sorry leggally wardeced) out of the game. This means NO POS's at all unless you part of a massive alliance block, so all the small industrials are now dead. Long live Goons. If this goes through then I'll be un-subbing - I doubt you'll miss me and I won't be shedding any tears.
I would wager that most small alliance/corps will still be in pretty good shape. Anyone who can afford a dickstar in high sec would really have to **** someone off for them to bother.
However, the really young corps, the ones who are just putting up their first POS and can not afford a billion+ in modules, well, they are already easy targets so I imagine not much will change. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
95
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 01:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
bornaa wrote:This all ****** new war dec system is putting a barrier so that you cant war dec goons or test because it will cost you 5 BILLION isk per week. You see, CCP want to secure large alliances from decs and screw smaller corps/alliances so that large one can easily attack them directly or with alt corps. And as i can see, they are really struggling to kill industry in EVE - no fixes or upgrades for indy players for years while making better ganking ships and now they want make so that everybody war decs them. Nice one CCP. And one more thing, when you are attacked you can't do anything about it. Attacker can easily get out of it - even if CCP is advertising this will make war more of commitment - yea, commitment for indy and smal corps to be screwed. OK, i'll bite....
I will get this out of the way up front: I'm a null-sec resident and I'm not interested in the least bit with dec'ing high-sec operations.
CCP was ignoring both PvP and Industrial elements of their space-based MMO equally until late 2011. Prior, it was all about balancing and tweaking various aspects of the game while CCP tried to build a Gold shop and their avatar nonsense.
Let's talk about some of the things that CCP did introduce or change w/in the past several years, though:
1) POS anchoring and onlining timer reductions.
2) Noctis, the salvaging salvation for salvagers.
3) Orca, a tremendously popular ship amongst indy folks in across all of EVE.
5) Rorqual, a tremendous indy resource for hard core null-sec occupants.
6) Tech 2 modules covering salvagers, tractor beams, hacking and analyzing.
And there are probably more things of which I am unaware or never use during the course of my day-to-day game play. 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284286 |
Robert Saint
Luminaire Trading Company
34
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 05:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Nevryn Takis wrote:Well CCP wanted to nerf industry completely and they've just succeeded. If you're not part of a large alliance (read one of the 3 power block alliances) or in a npc corp, you can be griefed (sorry leggally wardeced) out of the game. This means NO POS's at all unless you part of a massive alliance block, so all the small industrials are now dead. Long live Goons. If this goes through then I'll be un-subbing - I doubt you'll miss me and I won't be shedding any tears.
I like this post...
Adding = There are many solo players in eve with a few accounts "for the most part" trying to avoid the " PVP/One sided battle gangs" that seem to be so popular. Crafting a small ISK base of Industry or Missioning without PVP. A big draw to EVE for me was the large player base on one server for both PVE and PVP. If a player is ready to PVP, they know where to go, or they can be a carebear until they build up the interest to battle other players.
It seems that CCP is creating a PVP only system little by little, with each new update. I've only been playing 11 months so far, but enjoy the game. I don't PVP personally because there isn't a system setup for solo PVP action, just gangs out numbering a solo player for kicks or large groups of skilled players for big battles.
It would seem CCP should create a better PVP solo system like in other MMO's where a small team or a solo player can enter a room with an equal number of foes to battle on a level playing field for the most part. I doubt this will happen since the vocal "squeaky wheel" players (PVP) seem to be the ones who gets in CCP face about desires for the game. From what I see here and have experienced in game is ALL PVP players with very little exceptions have ZERO consideration for playing fairly and simple want the thrill of blowing another players ship up; and if there is no risk of getting blown up - all the better... Random PVP action makes no sense in this game; since there is no challenge, it's either get outnumbered or join a gang.... pass! |
Haulie Berry
18
|
Posted - 2012.04.21 15:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
What a bunch of whiny little girls. The entire point of a wardec is to allow Entity A to shoot at Entity B in circumstances where Entity B would otherwise be able to largely avoid such a scenario. If it is trivial to circumvent that intended gameplay mechanic (as it currently is) then it may as well not even be in the game.
Obvious exploit is obvious. Pretty amusing that people are actually complaining about it being fixed. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
928
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 11:41:00 -
[35] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:Pretty amusing that people are actually complaining about it being fixed. I think you miss the point of all of this
People are moaning about large alliances being effectively 'perma dec shielded' due to the prohibitive cost to war dec them
The emphasis on war costs being tied to the number of people in a corp/alliance is unfairly biased towards larger groups of players.
The larger groups are safer than ever from being war decced and the smaller groups now have an even greater chance of being war decced themselves.
Also, no more will we see the 'David VS Goliath' matchups that were so interesting
Its like CCP decided that the blob mentality of nulsec was so amazing they wanted to bring it to hisec
Nice work :( My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Haulie Berry
18
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 13:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:Pretty amusing that people are actually complaining about it being fixed. I think you miss the point of all of this People are moaning about large alliances being effectively 'perma dec shielded' due to the prohibitive cost to war dec them The emphasis on war costs being tied to the number of people in a corp/alliance is unfairly biased towards larger groups of players. The larger groups are safer than ever from being war decced and the smaller groups now have an even greater chance of being war decced themselves. Also, no more will we see the 'David VS Goliath' matchups that were so interesting Its like CCP decided that the blob mentality of nulsec was so amazing they wanted to bring it to hisec Nice work :(
Actually, no, that's a side point. And it does have some validity. However, the primary point of this particular thread, per both the subject line and the OP's thesis, is, "Whaaa, I can't trivially avoid an intended gameplay mechanic anymore, it's not faaaaaaair!" |
Invictra Atreides
Toward the Terra
66
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 15:31:00 -
[37] - Quote
Is paying 4 bill for one week war dec a lot? I never done that so I don't know. In what way does this protect large Alliances ? Blog |-áTutorials | Youtube "I donGÇÖt know everything, I just know what I know." |
Velicitia
Open Designs
866
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 15:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
Robert Saint wrote: It seems that CCP is creating a PVP only system little by little, with each new update. I've only been playing 11 months so far, but enjoy the game. I don't PVP personally because there isn't a system setup for solo PVP action, just gangs out numbering a solo player for kicks or large groups of skilled players for big battles.
Fact of the matter is, they're returning to the ruthless PvP system that they had years ago. This is awesome (and I'm a hell of a carebear).
Right now the industrial side of a corp is much maligned because it's honestly pointless. Why bother working with/protecting/recruiting miners and industrialists when one can simply pick up and fit a new BC or BS from the market for cheap?
Sure, Indy corps are still "easy prey" for people ... but it doesn't have to be that way --> get to know the "PvP" corps operating in your area ... come to an agreement along the lines of "hey, help us out with wardecs, and you get 1/2 off ships..."
Robert Saint wrote:It would seem CCP should create a better PVP solo system like in other MMO's ... Why? Why does CCP need to do this?
The only thing stopping you is the effort involved. Seriously, get a handful of people interested, promote it, get CCP's attention for other promos (e.g. a splash screen at login) when you get big enough ... and have fun.
Reason "other" MMOs have that, is they operate on a completely different mentality than EvE. There --> PvE all the time, with "some" PvP thrown in as an afterthought Here --> PvP all the time, with "some" PvE available. |
Five Thirty
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
41
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Posted - 2012.04.23 15:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
Haulie Berry wrote:What a bunch of whiny little girls. The entire point of a wardec is to allow Entity A to shoot at Entity B in circumstances where Entity B would otherwise be able to largely avoid such a scenario. If it is trivial to circumvent that intended gameplay mechanic (as it currently is) then it may as well not even be in the game.
Obvious exploit is obvious. Pretty amusing that people are actually complaining about it being fixed.
Hmm, that's odd, I thought war declarations were to allow fighting to occur without concord being involved. It seems that some people think it's another way to cause grief to people who aren't interested in "ALL PVP ALL THE TIME PVPVPVPVPVPVPVP!!!"
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Haulie Berry
19
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Posted - 2012.04.23 16:05:00 -
[40] - Quote
Five Thirty wrote:Haulie Berry wrote:What a bunch of whiny little girls. The entire point of a wardec is to allow Entity A to shoot at Entity B in circumstances where Entity B would otherwise be able to largely avoid such a scenario. If it is trivial to circumvent that intended gameplay mechanic (as it currently is) then it may as well not even be in the game.
Obvious exploit is obvious. Pretty amusing that people are actually complaining about it being fixed. Hmm, that's odd, I thought war declarations were to allow fighting to occur without concord being involved.
Contrary to what you seem to believe, this doesn't actually conflict with what I said. |
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Zaxix
Gods of Freight The Toy Box
61
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Posted - 2012.04.23 16:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tobiaz wrote:It will become very easy to hire mercs. Simple. Yes of course. That will solve everything. It is impossible to imagine that the same people deccing you will be the same people defending you. No one in EVE would ever do something so dastardly. It will simply not occur to them. Ever. Red Frog--Hisec Courier Black Frog--Losec/Nosec Courier
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Velicitia
Open Designs
866
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Posted - 2012.04.23 16:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
Zaxix wrote:Tobiaz wrote:It will become very easy to hire mercs. Simple. Yes of course. That will solve everything. It is impossible to imagine that the same people deccing you will be the same people defending you. No one in EVE would ever do something so dastardly. It will simply not occur to them. Ever.
This ^^
Though, tbh, it's not "hard" for an industrial corp to "not suck" at combat. Sure, you might give them kills ... but is losing a few cruisers really that big of a deal (esp. if you can take a BS or T2 ship out)? |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
56
|
Posted - 2012.04.23 16:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
I like the idea of war decs and I haven't fully read all of the changes, but I hope they make sure someone can't just chain grief someone or at least there be a decent incentive to move on to different more profitable targets.
The best part about war decs is it being an ISK sink. I think there is a lot of potential. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
60
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Posted - 2012.04.23 17:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
the costs for a wardec should scale with both, the agressor and defender corp sizes imo. this way, attacking small corps becomes costly for big PvP corps whereas attacking a big corp will increase your chances of getting your behind kicked. |
Dare Knight
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.04.23 18:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
Scale it the other way. The more members YOU have, the more it costs. Think of it as like a single-member-permit system. Each member that you need to "certify" to be in the war costs you x isk. Large alliances won't be so inclined to bug the little guy, and the little guy can dec all day long if he wants. Bigger alliances that can afford to dec each other for good reasons can still do so (though dec'ing in nullsec? Does it net a reward I'm unaware of?) etc etc etc |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
1184
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Posted - 2012.04.23 19:05:00 -
[46] - Quote
Moved from Science and Industry. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Karloth Valois
1st. Pariah Malefactor corp.
3
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Posted - 2012.04.24 23:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
I love reading people saying that the new workdec system is "killing industry" they are more balanced than they were. I used to do war decs, it cost nothing you couldnt make killing 2 BS rats in 0.0 in a SBomber and if they paid there was nothing to stop you just leaving the war dec running and killing them some more. War decs are more balanced towards defenders now than they were a year ago. It costs more, you know if you pay your free for at least a week, and you can contract in merc that cant just take your money and run (i say cant...i mean cant as easily)
Yes your losing you "dec sheild" that made high sec POS indistructable and wars next to pointless but your better off than you have been reciving a war dec after inferno than any time in the 7 or 8 years before "dec sheild" and people managed then, have carebears forgotten how they used to deal with war decs already?
You get 24 hours notice, get rid of all your shiney that might get shot in space, **** star up your POS and make sure your corpies aint flying mission or mining ships for a week.
If a merc corp contacts you and says they will help fight off your attackers for isk, assume they are alts of the attackers, find mercs yourself instead It's not been nice, but thanks for using lube |
Shepard Book
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
44
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Posted - 2012.04.25 01:42:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:So CCP is going to change to dec system so that you can no longer scrape a dec with a dec shield. Also, there is going to be a price break for deccing small corps (they're going to a base price + target member count system). We will also be getting extreme rigs and drone damage mods.
From what I can see, this pretty much spells the end of any high sec POSes smaller than larges, and even those might be in trouble. Sentry drone pretty much make ECM mods useless. If Sentries start doing descent damage all you've really got as a deterrent is a large enough amount of EHP.
This change really needs to happen with a POS overhaul. You think inflations bad now, wait until we start loosing a bunch of industrial capacity.
Aww, no more immunity? What ever is a highsec person to do...
The only thing I dont like is the new wardec system helps the huge blocks with the price increases to dec them. |
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University Ivy League
888
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Posted - 2012.04.25 02:15:00 -
[49] - Quote
You can't scale using a single factor and have it work across the board.
- Attacker size? Too easy to game. - Defender size? Works great for the big groups, not so well for the small groups who get picked on by the big groups. - Difference in size? Mostly makes the math a bit weird. - Linear scaling? Fundamentally broken because there's no diminishing returns on member padding.
You can get interesting results from a very basic pair of formulas:
if (attacker > defender) = base_fee + (diff_fee * M^1/3) if (attacker <= defender) = base_fee + (size_fee * N^1/4)
M = total size of defender N = difference in size between attacker defender base_fee = 50M diff_fee = 50M size_fee = 75M
1v1 wars are about 125M/wk, 2k vs 2k is 552M/wk, 10k vs 10k is 800M/wk 10k vs 1 is 1127M/wk 1 vs 10k is 800M/wk
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Maxine Bellorum
Posthuman Society Enclave.
2
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Posted - 2012.04.25 04:39:00 -
[50] - Quote
All high sec corps should form a super alliance...end of story. |
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Eryn Velasquez
35
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Posted - 2012.04.25 05:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Because CCP has all the data, why not calculate with the kills/losses?
It should be more expensive if a pvp-oriented corp wardecs an industrial corp. The calculation on behalf of membersize is bullshit. GÇ£A man's freedom consists in his being able to do whatever he wills, but that he should not, by any human power, be forced to do what is against his will.GÇ¥-áGÇò Jean-Jacques Rousseau-á |
Dilligafmofo
Sandman Plc
82
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Posted - 2012.04.26 08:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
OP HTFU or go find a game that has no consequences for your actions.
The impending changes will favour the defender ffs.
Think of your little isk fawcet corp as Kuwait, Circa 1990. Think of the agressor as madman insane, ( real name is not allowed wtf?) a mad slavvering fool sporting a rather fetching evil moustache, eyeing the wonderful loots and bountyful goodness your corp holds. He attacks your sad, defenceless assets with dreams of riches and to stroke his own Epeen and show everyone that may take an interest that he really is a force to be reckoned with in the region.
Now think of your Eve friends as the rest of the world looking in. They care enough, or indeed believe they will be paid handsomely to interdict the moustached mans plans. Your friends whoop his sorry arse back to where he came from, removing his ability to reign terror on someone else for quite a while. You are now left to continue on your merry way ( upping your prices as you go ) and continuing to rip off those friends that sacrificed so much for you.
Makes friends, not mining barges !! |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
593
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Posted - 2012.04.26 08:41:00 -
[53] - Quote
Robert Saint wrote: It seems that CCP is creating a PVP only system little by little, with each new update. I've only been playing 11 months so far, but enjoy the game. I don't PVP personally because there isn't a system setup for solo PVP action, just gangs out numbering a solo player for kicks or large groups of skilled players for big battles.
It's always been a PVP game. The whole concept of separate PVE and PVP is native to other games, and doesn't really have anything to do with EVE. Yes, you can shoot NPCs, but it always happens on the same server with "PVP rules".
Quote:It would seem CCP should create a better PVP solo system like in other MMO's where a small team or a solo player can enter a room with an equal number of foes to battle on a level playing field for the most part. I doubt this will happen since the vocal "squeaky wheel" players (PVP) seem to be the ones who gets in CCP face about desires for the game. From what I see here and have experienced in game is ALL PVP players with very little exceptions have ZERO consideration for playing fairly and simple want the thrill of blowing another players ship up; and if there is no risk of getting blown up - all the better... Random PVP action makes no sense in this game; since there is no challenge, it's either get outnumbered or join a gang.... pass!
This is not a theme park game where you choose instanced entertainment, but a single-shard persistent universe.
I fly solo or with 1-3 other pilots every night. Every system is a level playing field. You choose your engagements, and work to prevent others from fighting you with odds on their side.
And most players will choose a good fight over a gank, if you don't know this you really haven't been playing outside hisec for long.
You really need to start seeing EVE as a virtual world. ~ Elite forum PvP ~ |
Perihelion Olenard
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
21
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Posted - 2012.04.26 10:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
bornaa wrote:This all ****** new war dec system is putting a barrier so that you cant war dec goons or test because it will cost you 5 BILLION isk per week. You see, CCP want to secure large alliances from decs and screw smaller corps/alliances so that large one can easily attack them directly or with alt corps. And as i can see, they are really struggling to kill industry in EVE - no fixes or upgrades for indy players for years while making better ganking ships and now they want make so that everybody war decs them. Nice one CCP. And one more thing, when you are attacked you can't do anything about it. Attacker can easily get out of it - even if CCP is advertising this will make war more of commitment - yea, commitment for indy and smal corps to be screwed.
It's possible that the devs in Goonswarm are the ones making this proposal. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
594
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 10:57:00 -
[55] - Quote
I really don't know what you guys are smoking, but fighting any corp residing outside hisec costs 0 ISK on Tranquility.
~ Elite forum PvP ~ |
Reppyk
The Black Shell
116
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 11:54:00 -
[56] - Quote
Scrapyard Bob wrote:1v1 wars are about 125M/wk That's too much, my dear Bob. Way too high. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1387
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 15:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Last I saw, the plan was that you could ally with as many corps as you wanted. Every wanna-be PVP corp out there will ally and do POS defense for free so they can get killmails. It will cost you nothing to spam allies into the war and overwhelm anyone trying to kill your undefended small POS tower. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Tsobai Hashimoto
Sturmgrenadier Inc Nulli Secunda
1
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Posted - 2012.04.26 21:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
bornaa wrote:This all ****** new war dec system is putting a barrier so that you cant war dec goons or test because it will cost you 5 BILLION isk per week. You see, CCP want to secure large alliances from decs and screw smaller corps/alliances so that large one can easily attack them directly or with alt corps. And as i can see, they are really struggling to kill industry in EVE - no fixes or upgrades for indy players for years while making better ganking ships and now they want make so that everybody war decs them.Nice one CCP. And one more thing, when you are attacked you can't do anything about it. Attacker can easily get out of it - even if CCP is advertising this will make war more of commitment - yea, commitment for indy and smal corps to be screwed.
Like getting rid of gun mining on drones, dropping Meta 0 drops into nearly worthless metal scraps, nerfing incursions hard and now talking about lowering bounty and mission rewards by 10% on all rats in all space?
Yeah, CCP has never done anything for indy chars
You can only make 80mill an hour on perfect boosted hulk right now on ABCs at current mineral prices, and with 2 or 3 level 4 industry systems in 0.0 there is a ton of ABC around |
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