Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Raven Timoshenko
Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 12:42:00 -
[1]
CCP plans in the future (tm) to release a new class of cargo vessel that would bridge the Gaping Chasm between Industrials and Freighters. On the one hand the even a rigged Industrial carries but a fraction of the volume of a freighter, on the other hand freighters are slow, big and very expensive. The Current plans on making a new class of cargo vessel would make things more convenient for all concerned as this would make things much more interesting for all concerned; pirates included, as it these larger, slower vessels would be far more enticing targets for the merchant moving materials in low sec or 0.0. However, in the process of making these new cargo vessels, the current class of Industrials will at best become redundant, at worst obsolete. Therefore I would like to suggest a proposal to put the "Industry" back into "Industrial".
My proposal is as follows: make Industrials small mobile factories that produce a limited spectrum of T1 items - modules and ammunition, further restricted by racial type, and requiring additional manufacturing skills and modules that are specific to the class. ( Such as Covert Ops Cloaking Devices are specific to Cov-ops Frigates and Recons).
Equiping and using these modules will require additional skills - such as Anchoring, Manufacturing and so forth.
Industrials can fit a High Slot manufacturing module, that can manufacture as per the Industrial ship's racial type, or it can fit a Reprocessing module, but this module is extremely inefficient (35 to 50% Wastage) thus making it impractical for mining operations.
These new Industrials now become a very useful ship for: 1) Missioning and Exploration - Consider the situation for long haul L4 missions or exploration sites where fleets start running out of ammunition or need a different type of module, not currently available in the region. 2) Front Line Supply for Fleet engagements. 3) Secondary Manufacturing and Reprocessing.
However unlike POS manufacturing or Station Arrays, the abilities of the Industrial Manufacturing Module is quite limited: 1) It may have at best one to two assembly lines. 2) It is far more inefficient than even a POS array (35% to 40% Wastage, with perfect skills) 3) There are limitations on which types of items it can manufacture depending on race - For example: An Ammar Industrial can only produce Lenses and Armor Modules, Caldari would produce Missiles and shields etc. 4) In Order to commence manufacturing or reprocessing, the Industrial must enter a deployed mode ( Not unlike Siege Mode on a dreadnought) which requires time to anchor and unanchor itself from this mode, making it an extremely vulnerable target.
Current Industrial Cargo bonuses will remain, namely because the skill bonuses will be applied to the Module and not the ship, and since the ability to carry more materials is still useful since it will allow Industrials to produce a bit more than they could.
PLEASE NOTE: Industrials as described above are NOT a viable alternative in making ISK, simlpy because of the built in high inefficiency and restrictions on types of production make this unfeasible for mass production. Industrials now become a SUPPORT vessel rather than a logistical vessel.
An Example of the New Industrials and modules:
Reproccesing Module: Description: Can reprocess ammunition, ore and modules into minerals in anchored mode. 5% reduction in waste per skill level. Requisite Skills: Primary: Industrial IV, Refining IV. Secondary Skills: Anchoring IV, Mechanic IV Base Wastage: 50%
Manufacturing Module: Description: Can Manufacture modules and ammunition on the field in anchored mode. 5% reduction in waste per skill level. Requisite Skills: Primary: Industrial IV, Manufacturing IV. Secondary Skills: Anchoring IV, Engineering IV Base Wastage: 50%
|
Raven Timoshenko
Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 12:43:00 -
[2]
Ship Example:
Badger Mark II - Variant A Bonuses: 5% additional Cargo space per skill level 99% reduction in CPU and Powergrid requirements for reprocessing and manufacturing (Caldari) modules. Can only fit one reprocessing or manufacturing (Caldari) module. Produces: Missiles: All types. Launchers: All Types - Excluding Citadel.
Badger Mark II Variant B Bonuses: 5% additional Cargo space per skill level 99% reduction in CPU and Powergrid requirements for reprocessing and manufacturing (Caldari) modules.Can only fit one reprocessing or manufacturing (Caldari) module.
Produces: Hybrid Charges: All types. Hybrid Guns: All Types upto Battleship sized.
Badger Mark II Variant C Bonuses: 5% additional Cargo space per skill level 99% reduction in CPU and Powergrid requirements for reprocessing and manufacturing (Caldari) modules.Can only fit one reprocessing or manufacturing (Caldari) module.
Produces: Electronic Warfare: All types. Shield Modules: Extnders, Boosters, Hardeners, excluding Capital class.
|
Vaerla Myshtana
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 14:07:00 -
[3]
That is an interesting idea. I'd like to see it played out.
Heck, we could have a special skill for the modules that allows use of higher quality modules and gives bonuses.
I'm guessing that the manufacturing and reprocessing modules might have to reduce cargo space, since they'd be BIG (1,000 m3?). It'd also be interesting to see the manufacturing ones have "Ammo Slots" that can take a single blueprint and limited number of minerals (say 3 to 6 based on version) in limited quantities (say 100 m3 each). This would limit what items could be made and would sometimes require the operator to change out minerals to change jobs.
Hmm... This is REALLY interesting...
Think about it. You drag a blueprint from your bay, drag in some minerals, and then click on the module. It draws X capacitor each minute until the run completes. Of course, you can set to module to automatically restart upon completion or not, and also to automatically reload when empty or not.
This is kind of exciting.
|
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 14:32:00 -
[4]
Had Factory Ships as T2 version of the small Freighter Ideas. Would have assembly lines just like a Rorqual.
Here's the T1 Small Freighter stats and here are the T2 Factory Ship stats. They're some of my early designs in EVE, so they might be a little off.
It's definitely a as of yet unused role for ships in EVE.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
|
Raven Timoshenko
Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 14:58:00 -
[5]
Well Nice to know some people thinking the same way.
However, in my case the production capabilities are MUCH more limited and inefficient. This is to ensure that the Industrial cannot replace POSes or Stations as effective means of producing modules and ammo for sale.
The Point of the ship is to be provide the needed support but at higher costs, from restricting types of manufacturing, to efficiency and the need to anchor before operation, thereby making it a more vulnerable target.
|
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 17:05:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko The Point of the ship is to be provide the needed support but at higher costs, from restricting types of manufacturing, to efficiency and the need to anchor before operation, thereby making it a more vulnerable target.
An intersting idea, but you've pre-nerfed it so hard I have a difficult time imagining when it would *ever* be used. There seem a few likely scenarios:
1. Mining far from home. But the waste is so high, you'd do better to bring a small faction tower and a refining array.
2. Production in hostile space. But the ship is so vulnerable you'd do better to sneak in the needed stuff with blockade runners or covert cynos.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Raven Timoshenko
Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 17:25:00 -
[7]
Originally by: MailDeadDrop
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko The Point of the ship is to be provide the needed support but at higher costs, from restricting types of manufacturing, to efficiency and the need to anchor before operation, thereby making it a more vulnerable target.
An intersting idea, but you've pre-nerfed it so hard I have a difficult time imagining when it would *ever* be used. There seem a few likely scenarios:
1. Mining far from home. But the waste is so high, you'd do better to bring a small faction tower and a refining array.
2. Production in hostile space. But the ship is so vulnerable you'd do better to sneak in the needed stuff with blockade runners or covert cynos.
MDD
I have deliberately erred on the side of caution. Maybe the restrictions on different manufacturing modules - missiles for one, hybrids for the other- can be removed.
We can say that the base wastage is somewhere between 40 to 50% with 5% reduction to wastage per level, and that's not so bad.
Anchoring I think should stay simply because the ship should be able to produce while moving / warping, and anchoring should be say 2 mins, not so long as to make it too easy yet long enough to one shot it if its caught unawares.
A foreseeable scenario is using it to manufacture ammunition during escalating expeditions , and lvl 4 and 5 missions. These types take a long time to complete even with a large fleet and the sheer number of enemies require people to exhaust a cargo hold worth of ammo.
Also it can be deployed within a system that is under siege, so that the defenders rely on salvaged modules that have to be reprocessed in order to restock thier ammunition or mods. This would also be useful for rearming withing reinforced POSes.
|
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
|
Posted - 2008.09.18 19:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko I have deliberately erred on the side of caution. Maybe the restrictions on different manufacturing modules - missiles for one, hybrids for the other- can be removed.
Manufacturing modules does you no good without a way to fit them. Which implies you have either a POS with a ship maintenance array or a station in which to dock.
If you have a POS, then it is more efficient to use a POS equipment assembly array *and* less risky: adding the equipment array doesn't increase risk to the POS; adding this new industrial ship puts this ship at risk (it wouldn't otherwise be involved).
If you have a station, then it could easily have a factory (some conquerable stations and player-built outposts don't). If it does, then it is even better than the POS equipment assembly arrays. If it doesn't, you're still docking in a friendly system (otherwise you probably wouldn't get docking rights) so a POS could likely be possible.
It just occurs to me though that you may intend for an industrial manufacturing module line to work in conjunction with a ship-based maintenance facility. Motherships have them; do any others? Seems like a *very* small market.
I think there's room for discussion on having an ammunition assembly array for the industrial, but module assembly arrays look hard to employ in a "forward deployment" environment. And a refinery/reprocessing array makes sense, too.
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko We can say that the base wastage is somewhere between 40 to 50% with 5% reduction to wastage per level, and that's not so bad.
Topping out at 75% after some month-long level 5 training? Ick. I still think the inefficiency will make it a deal breaker.
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Anchoring I think should stay simply because the ship should [think you forgot "not" here --MDD] be able to produce while moving / warping, and anchoring should be say 2 mins, not so long as to make it too easy yet long enough to one shot it if its caught unawares.
Producing while warping is a red herring: most modules deactivate while entering warp, so this one would, too. I understand your intent with the anchoring (a la Rorqual entering "industrial mode"), but the problem isn't the one-shot surprise. The problem is once you're discovered in hostile space, you're going to be tackled. Once you're tackled, you're going to die. If activating the production module means you're stuck in place to be tackled, people are only going to do it where they are safe, which means either a defense gang at the ready, or inside a POS shield. If you've got a POS, there are more efficient ways to work. But I suppose making the industrial production semi-require teamwork isn't a bad thing.
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko A foreseeable scenario is using it to manufacture ammunition during escalating expeditions , and lvl 4 and 5 missions. These types take a long time to complete even with a large fleet and the sheer number of enemies require people to exhaust a cargo hold worth of ammo.
Missions/explorations? One hauler alt can easily resupply a large fleet. Actually, it would be bulkier things like liquid ozone (for cynos) that would be a problem; ammo is tiny by comparison. Which makes me think that a mobile refinery module and a mobile ammo assembly array are the two things that have the best possible value.
MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching |
Vaerla Myshtana
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 02:21:00 -
[9]
I honestly don't think that anchoring is necessary to preserve game balance. I missed that in the initial post.
I'm pretty sure that just making it hard to get the skills and equipment and limiting the production capacity in some fashion makes it balanced but still interesting enough that some people will use it. Others never will.
Heck, I'd use from time to time just because I could.
|
Raven Timoshenko
Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 03:10:00 -
[10]
@MailDeadDrop:
1. Well I concede the point here, maybe its best to have an Industrial choose between the type of Manufacturing Array - Ammo or Modules (Like in POS arrays now) rather than break it down by racial type. Ship Bonuses can be changed to reflect efficiencies for manufacturing one form of ammo or modules over another.
Quote: Topping out at 75% after some month-long level 5 training? Ick. I still think the inefficiency will make it a deal breaker.
2. Well if look at my OP, the fitting requirements for the Manufacturing Module and Reprocessing Module have Industrial IV and Manufacturing / Refining IV as the primary requisites - both skills are fundamental to Industrialists to begin with, so this not incur additional training time simply because it dovetails in with the major skills of Industrialists anyway.
Quote: Anchoring I think should stay simply because the ship should [think you forgot "not" here --MDD] be able to produce while moving / warping, and anchoring should be say 2 mins, not so long as to make it too easy yet long enough to one shot it if its caught unawares.
3. Perhaps Deployment is not needed.
Quote: Missions/explorations? One hauler alt can easily resupply a large fleet. Actually, it would be bulkier things like liquid ozone (for cynos) that would be a problem; ammo is tiny by comparison. Which makes me think that a mobile refinery module and a mobile ammo assembly array are the two things that have the best possible value.
4. Well consider a few things, namely that in a long mission or exploration, you may find yourself far away from any market that could supply you your ammo and also that the makeup of the fleet in terms of size and ship types may change during the course of events, having an onsite manufacturing ship, which can reprocess "junk" loot and turn out ammunition or modules would make things much more convenient.
5. Also consider the situation in a forward deployment in enemy space. You may get cut off from your supply lines, or your POS sieged, you may not have any materials left in the POS arrays because of this, so you must rely on reprocessing dropped modules for ammunition and so forth. It is very much of a specialized situation but I have seen it happen.
|
|
Nayannia Night
Channel 4 News Team
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 03:12:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Nayannia Night on 19/09/2008 03:14:25 so you want a industrial form of support ship? here is an idea along your lines that might make more sense.
make it refine as well as a pos. It can only refine mods and ammo. not ore, not alloys. make it only have 2 'building' options:
1) let it convert ammo to an equal type. meaning change anti matter charges into lead or something. scourge missles into thunderbolts ect. if its a faction charge, **edit**make it convert to normal**end of edit**.
2) Let it build only ammo with the right bpo in its cargo hold. --in addition have it make ammo at either an acceled rate, or at higher output per cycle. since waiting for 4 minutes in a mission or a fight for 100 rounds of ammo will just not work. ---this can be futhered by saying only a caldari ship can make missles, the amarr crystals, ect.
any who think this would unbalance the market on ammo is crazy, this stuff sells like candy in the economy bulk style anyway. the price wouldnt change because someone can make it faster, since it would leave the market just as fast.
also about deploying, just make it so it cant be in warp when working. let it move around the field big deal, industrials are slow as dirt anyway and not hard to tackle.
this basically makes it a mobile armory making it front line friendly as it can take useless mods from fallen enemies (or mission loot) and turn them into minerals for making ammo, or convert undesireable enemy ammo into what your fleet/you are using. this makes it more of an ammo depot for front lines fitting your support role. the low yield of a pos grade refinery (again only for refining mods and ammo) make it still more usefull to haul the stuff off to a station or such for refining if there is time. but good for those long camps or battles that find them self in a long endurance fight.
|
Raven Timoshenko
Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 03:18:00 -
[12]
Ok to simplify and make it more effective:
Badger Mark II - Ammunition Variant
99% reduction in CPU and Powergrid requirements for reprocessing and manufacturing modules. Can only fit one reprocessing or manufacturing (Caldari) module.
Bonuses: 2% reduction in wastage for manufacture of Standard, Heavy, Heavy Assault, Cruise Missiles and Torpedoes.
Badger Mark II - Module Variant.
99% reduction in CPU and Powergrid requirements for reprocessing and manufacturing modules. Can only fit one reprocessing or manufacturing (Caldari) module.
Bonuses: 2% reduction in wastage for manufacture of Shield Modules and Electronic Warfare Modules.
In each case the ship can produce any form of ammunition, including that for other races, but is only efficient at producing modules for its own race.
Any ship can fit a reprocessing module - it remains "generic"
In the other cases, it still results in a situation where manufacturing from a Industrial is not as effective or lucrative as manufacturing from a POS. Namely because the spectrum of items is pretty limited to what can be manufactured efficiently.
|
Nayannia Night
Channel 4 News Team
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 03:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Raven Timoshenko Ok to simplify and make it more effective:
Badger Mark II - Module Variant.
99% reduction in CPU and Powergrid requirements for reprocessing and manufacturing modules. Can only fit one reprocessing or manufacturing (Caldari) module.
Bonuses: 2% reduction in wastage for manufacture of Shield Modules and Electronic Warfare Modules.
the making mods on the spot just doesnt seem to work really as what ship is going to be like 'omg I forgot to fit that mod on my ship, hey you can you make me the most basic T1 version of that mod for me to run to my carrier buddy and refit'..... however ammo can be used even outside of capital support as you can jet can it. and if it could make T2 mods, that would be next to pointless as well as you would have to have a stock pile of special T2 componets filling your hold to make the thing, as well as the base T1 version on hand. mobile mods just doesnt fit the general idea you want. no ship in pvp or even more so, fleet, leaves home without the right mods and if it did by the time they realize the mistake they dont have time nor need to wait around for you to make a basic T1 version of said mod.
and for the ammo one, a reduction in wasteage for that ammo type, COULD reduce the market since someone could be making it cheaper while mobile. though making the bonus I suggested to speed or output only apply to its type could work. let it make all ammo, but only its type in truely useable bulk
|
Raven Timoshenko
Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 03:40:00 -
[14]
I think that makes sense. Rather than having Module Vs Ammo Variants for the ships we can just have rapid ammo Industrials which can reprocess by default, with bonuses applying to specific classes of ammunition.
So for example the Badger Mk II would give bonuses to building Missiles, Ammarr would give Bonuses to Lenses etc.
However the additional type of Manufacturing Module should be Drones. Since people can and do loose drones during engagements.
For reprocessing - yeah I originally thought it would be best to have it only refine modules or ammo rather than ore, but maybe that would cause too much of a limitation.
I like the idea that it breaks down modules for making other ammo and modules, since this would also dovetail nicely should CCP introduce the component production system into T1 modules and ammo.
|
Raven Timoshenko
Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 03:43:00 -
[15]
OK so continuing the example:
Badger Mark II
99% reduction in CPU and Powergrid requirements for reprocessing and manufacturing modules. Can only fit one reprocessing or manufacturing (Caldari) module.
Bonuses: 2% reduction in wastage and 5% manufacturing speed for manufacture of Standard, Heavy, Heavy Assault, Cruise Missiles, Torpedoes and Citadel Torpedoes.
Iteron Mark (?)
99% reduction in CPU and Powergrid requirements for reprocessing and manufacturing modules. Can only fit one reprocessing or manufacturing (Gallente) module.
Bonuses: 2% reduction in wastage and 5% manufacturing speed for manufacture of Scout, Medium, and Heavy Drones.
|
Nayannia Night
Channel 4 News Team
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 04:32:00 -
[16]
should be all drones but fighters really so long as they have the working bpo, but btw...who would make the hybrid ammo then.... hence I left making drones out of the picture, though yeah they too can be lost. Though the point of also only being weapon ammo is the conversion part. among light drones for example is alot of stats to change between the types as well as their "tier 2" versions in ewar and log types. ammo is much simpler.
Perhaps just giving each race a bonus to ITS drones, like the kinetic drones to caldari thermal to gallente and so on. Follow Suite with the tier 2 drones, using what the base hull of the drone is. ecm drones to caldari, webbing drones to mini and so on.
|
Nayannia Night
Channel 4 News Team
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 04:44:00 -
[17]
new version (also note time buff)
Badger Mark II
99% reduction in CPU and Powergrid requirements for reprocessing and manufacturing modules. Can only fit one reprocessing or manufacturing (no need for 4 mods) module.
Bonuses: 10% reduced manufacturing time for missles and caldari type drones per level
|
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 09:42:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Clansworth on 19/09/2008 09:43:56 As a reality check on the ideas here, I don't believe the manufacturing systems in game have any racial diffrentiation. I'm pretty sure a slot can produce 'Ammo' or 'Drones', not 'Missiles' or 'Caldari Drones'... So I'm not sure about the feasability of the racial specific bonuses.
The idea of a manufacturing ship certainly does have merit, though something as 'mundane' as manufacturing, especially a reduced efficiency mobile version, is a bit removed form any sort of racial optomizations. I'd just leave the racial variety to the ship specs.
I also don't see a reason to NOT allow this on basic industrials. I'm pretty sure the reason the industrials have so much unused CPU to begin with is they were originally designed with something like this in mind. No need to build a tech 2 ship, just to be able to build tech 1 items... right?
The game mechanics should allow for this without any real changes, other than some added items, as it could use the same mechanics of the Rorq's compression lines, just with different classifications. Though, for its intended purpose of front-line production, I would shoot for High speed, low efficiency operation. Give it a 25% reduction in manufacturing time, with 25% wastage, and let it produce the Ammo, Advanced Ammo, Drone, or Advanced Drone categories.
As for a refining module, I proposed this for industrials sometime back in 2004 i believe.. haven't seen it yet.. ;-) It is soemthing that COULD be made to work quite well. Make it a module with a charge slot. You load the module with ore. At the end of the cycle, it uses the ore in it, and spits the results into the cargo hold. It then uses the same reload mechanic as ammunition to reload the module with more of the same type of ore (if available). Again, max it at 75% (same as POS).
Here's my proposal's examples:
Add to industrial class vessels: -99.8% PG and CPU to Minor Industrial Core fitting requirements
Minor Industrial Core I (Seige Module) An electronic interface designed to facilitate the deployment of an Industrial ship into its manufacturing configuration. While in its deployed state, the ship is able to facilitate the high coordination and energy streams required to run Industry Blocks.
fitting: High Slot / 10,000MW / 50,000tf (20MW/100tf) max velocity bonus: -100% activation time / duration: 120.00 sec consumtion type: Heavy Water consumtion ammount: 100 (ends up being 20m3/minute)
Ammunition Assembly Block I (Industry Block) A shipmounted assembly array capable of producing basic ammunition. Can only be utilized on a deployed industrial or capital industrial vessel.
fitting: Mid Slot / 10MW / 200tf Adds 1 manufacturing slot (Ammunition) manufacturing time: -25% material requirements: +25%
Drone Assembly Block I (Industry Block)
A shipmounted assembly array capable of producing basic drones. Can only be utilized on a deployed industrial or capital industrial vessel.
fitting: Mid Slot / 10MW / 200tf Adds 1 manufacturing slot (Drone) manufacturing time: -25% material requirements: +25%
New Prospector Class |
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 09:43:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Clansworth on 19/09/2008 09:44:34 Refinery Block I (Industry Block) A shipmounted refining array capable of melting down raw ore and ice to usable materials. Can only be utilized on a deployed industrial, transport or capital industrial vessel. Can only be fit on Industrial, Transport, and Capital Industrial class ships.
fitting: Mid Slot / 20MW / 200tf Charge type: Ore / Ice capacity: 1,000 m3 activation time: 200 sec refining yield multiplier: 0.75
(note: 1,000m3 is not enough to hold a full batch of most ores, therefore, some new calculation will be required to pro-rate the results (rounding down, of course). I could have used 10,000m3 as the size, which would be enough space for any refine job, but that would lead to MASSIVE hidden storage by fitting a couple of these on a badger ii and loading it with ore for hauling, without ever deploying and actually USING them)
The refinery block's refining speed is not great. 1,000m3/200 sec is only 300m3/min, so even a badger ii with 5 refinery blocks would realy only be able to keep up with a single maxed covetor's mining rate. This should discourage it's use in mining operations (especially with the 75% hit on return)
New Prospector Class |
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 10:18:00 -
[20]
As a bling factor, It would be neat to see eventual transformations added to industrials for the deployed modes. (nothing like the major transofrmation the rorq undergoes), but perhaps, some flaps opening up and smoke venting from the factory lines or something.
New Prospector Class |
|
Raven Timoshenko
Fighting While Intoxicated Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 12:10:00 -
[21]
1. Firstly I don't think we need yet ANOTHER T2 variant for something that can be done just as well as a T1. This makes things unnecessarily expensive and whats more doesn't really add anything. Consider that by just removing the "blocks" as Clansworth calls it, and reequipping some cargo expanders you can do the same job as they do now. Think of them as Swiss Army Knives.
2. The reason for Racial bonuses for manufacturing is simply to allow some differentiation between the various industrial. Yes, there really is no difference between them now besides fitting slots and base cargo capacity, but by including the racials - making one Industrial more viable in making one item more effectively, it encourages some economic factors to b included, perhaps making things more interesting..
3. Ore reprocessing is IMO not a good idea simply because it would compete against the existing Rorqual ship as well as reduce the "time to market" turn around time for minerals, thus increasing mineral supplies and lowering costs. Its best if the Industrials breakdown only modules and ammunition.
|
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
|
Posted - 2008.09.19 12:54:00 -
[22]
The ore reprocessing I proposed would do little to affect market supply, as any boost it MIGHT give in time-to-market would easily be nullified by the 75% refine yield limit. Also, as the refine rate would be limited to what a single covetor could mine, it would hardly affect anything, as it just wouldn't be used for bulk mining. The only reason to use it would be for refining ore mined in enemy territory, to fuel it's own production lines, to resupply the war-effort. Also, the ability to refine ice on the spot would also allow it to help supply a remote fleet. Again, the yields we're talking here would not be near enough to affect market supply/demand, just battlefield readiness.
New Prospector Class |
Vaerla Myshtana
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.09.22 12:56:00 -
[23]
I'm pretty sure that we'd need just two T1 modules to start with this- Reprocessing and Manufacturing. Both should be inefficient (say 25% base refine and 15% base wastage) but easy to get started with if one has the skills. Then, just like miners, CCP could add faction variants and T2 versions over time as the idea matures.
We shouldn't complicate this idea more than absolutely necessary to maintain game balance. As long as the ship factories are worse than the station-based ones, they'll never break the game.
|
Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.09.22 13:51:00 -
[24]
i love this idea, and i think its a highly viable one too.
for those complaining about the lack of efficiency, might i remind you, there are t2 versions of most items........ - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Vaerla Myshtana
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.09.22 14:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sir Substance i love this idea, and i think its a highly viable one too.
for those complaining about the lack of efficiency, might i remind you, there are t2 versions of most items........
Exactly. The T1s should be kinda crummy and the T2s should be almost as good as a bad station.
|
procurement specialist
|
Posted - 2008.09.23 10:59:00 -
[26]
start the reprocessing array at 0% + 5% per level. with max skills and implant you can get 99.39% refine in a 35% outpost so this would max at 89.39% still enough to be worth doing but if there is a better place you would use it by preference.
|
Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
|
Posted - 2008.09.24 00:20:00 -
[27]
Originally by: procurement specialist start the reprocessing array at 0% + 5% per level. with max skills and implant you can get 99.39% refine in a 35% outpost so this would max at 89.39% still enough to be worth doing but if there is a better place you would use it by preference.
I'd say stick them with say a 25% base percentage, and then use skills, but use the POS style 75% cap. This would at least make them somewhat usable for people who DON'T have a years worth of refining skills.
New Prospector Class |
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.09.24 09:27:00 -
[28]
CCP had that kind of idea in the past. Thats why T1 industrials have insane CPU numbers. There has many years passed since that and I doubt that allowing that kind of mechaniks for regular T1 industrials nowdays would be sensible.
|
Sir Substance
Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.09.24 09:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Carniflex CCP had that kind of idea in the past. Thats why T1 industrials have insane CPU numbers. There has many years passed since that and I doubt that allowing that kind of mechaniks for regular T1 industrials nowdays would be sensible.
why not? an explanation of why it wouldn't be sensible would help provide some contrast in this thread. - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for *them*, that all went out the window? |
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2008.09.24 10:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sir Substance
why not? an explanation of why it wouldn't be sensible would help provide some contrast in this thread.
Proposed advantages are not in line with ship cost in my opinion. Ofc there is option to make needed modules expencive, but that is also not too good option when modules for ship cost several times more than ship itself.
Now if some of those ideas would be implemented to upcoming 'Orca' platform, that is supposed to be something like hybrid between roqual and be between freighter and industrial in size then why not.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |