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Revolution Rising
Venture Research and Resources
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Posted - 2008.09.19 14:38:00 -
[31]
A good idea, please make it so.
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EglantinFinfleur
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.09.19 14:53:00 -
[32]
Thumbs up
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Aales Eae
Solus Navy
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Posted - 2008.09.19 14:58:00 -
[33]
Bump
Lots of good input already, keep the ideas/comments coming. Butter Dog = Bitter Puppy
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CCP Lingorm
C C P
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Posted - 2008.09.19 16:11:00 -
[34]
Edited by: CCP Lingorm on 19/09/2008 16:11:08 This was brought up by the CSM. We answered it there.
Here is the text notes of that meeting.
Originally by: notes 0006 Destructible Outposts
CCP made it clear that there are technical issues in the way of destroying outposts (running science/industry jobs, market, players and property in station, etc), and that it would require a major overhaul to a lot of aspects of the game to make destructible outposts possible. Therefore it will not be feasible to destroy outposts.
Andrew (CSM Jade Constantine) said that there should be more risk associated to 0.0 presence, and that it currently is too hard to remove an established 0.0 entity. It is too hard to inflict lasting damage.
CCP replied that the CSM should look at other ways to accomplish what destructible outposts would.
Andrew (CSM Jade Constantine) continued that instead of a total removal of outposts, they could be put into a 'derelict' mode, where normal processes would finish and all items and players would remain onboard, but no new services could be initiated.
Various CSM members said that there currently are a lot of useless outposts littering 0.0, and that it would be nice to destroy or disable the outposts and raid them for supplies, so that land could be left fallow, and a reward is gained from pillaging these outposts.
CCP Lingorm CCP Quality Assurance QA Engineering Team Leader
Originally by: Lord Fitz Eve is to WoW as Wow is to an 8 player game of Unreal Tournament.
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Aales Eae
Solus Navy
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Posted - 2008.09.19 20:34:00 -
[35]
I don't think the issue should be shot dead and I think people should be able to voice there ideas about it and if they agree/disagree. Eve is ever evolving and at some point in the game it may have to be implemented. Butter Dog = Bitter Puppy
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Car Wars
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.19 22:20:00 -
[36]
destroying outpost would be very nice. 0.0 is really littered with them. should also be a button to self destruct
Further there needs to be an incentive for people to defend their outpost more. Like it is now nothing in the outpost is at risk, not the belonging of corps, players, not the bpos or builds. If you take an outpost everything should be taken away and belong to the conquerers.
Gives people more incentive to stay and fight, and not just offline the posses, jump out their belongings. Or for renters: they cant just stay and rent from the new bully on the block, they will have lost their stuff previous to that. They thus might also join the fight.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.20 01:29:00 -
[37]
THUMB UP
One thing you gotta think about is the 'poison the wells' tactic. Say alliance X is losing their space to alliance Y and they realise they won't last long and it will only be a couple days/week before their stations are captured. Would alliance X then be able to destroy their own stations just to prevent Y from capturing them?
CCP PLEASE LOOK AT MINING AGENTS MISSION %..... I want better than 60% mining missions from a mining agent =(
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Clansworth
Burning Sky Labs
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Posted - 2008.09.20 07:47:00 -
[38]
Originally by: CCP Lingorm This was brought up by the CSM. We answered it there. Here is the text notes of that meeting.
That is, unless of course, an NPC flys a Nyx Mothership into the station. I find a pretty large contradiction that the devs on one hand say it is not going to happen, and on the other hand, make it appear to be a 'feature' in official game trailers.
In all honesty, the derilict mode seems to cover all the concerns, and I'd go as far as to say, even if all S&I jobs were canceled, it would be reasonable, as that is the risk of doing manufacturing in a war zone (which, 0.0, by definition, is).
I'd even support a one to two week period window after the station is 'destroyed' where the contents of corp and person hangers could be accessed (though only from outside, the staion is no longer dockable). Basically turn the outpost object into a 'derilict' object, with right-click options to 'Open Personal Hanger' and 'Open Corp Hanger'. After a cooldown period, the hardened security systems start to breakdown, opening the contents of hangers up for anyone to piece through. (perhaps survival of items at this stage could be random, much like ship destruction).
Would also be interesting to see a fleet of ships orbiting the derilict running salvagers on it, recovering mins/materials. After the derilict stage, the station breaks down further into a massive field of debris strewn about (think about some of the missions, with massive wreckages, and huge 'depleted station batteries')
New Prospector Class |
Flashrain
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Posted - 2008.09.20 11:35:00 -
[39]
Currently stations are death traps for defenders, the players undock and die while grid loads with a hostile gang. This situation should be reversed, to make the station a death trap for attackers instead.
If anything, the station should be made more powerful with offensive guns and force field to favor the defenders.
The current indestructible station is unfriendly only to an entity such as BoB. The attacking entity has to leave a defensive force to watch each station, diverting resources and making the effort progressively harder - AS IT SHOULD BE.
Starbase defense: If stations are either made destructible or derelict, then they should also be defensible just like the current in game POS system. That means being able to anchor many, many more guns than the largest POS out there (since a station costs many times more than a POS tower). There should be enough firepower to kill a titan in seconds. If there is any effective counter to a titan, starbase sized guns should be it.
Fleets: Lag happens with large fleets. Lag problem is extremely difficult to fix. To avoid this, the station will also require a huge defensive force field allow the fleet to load the grid, and to host the fleet that rally to its defense.
It takes months to build a station, it should take months for an offensive fleet to seige and destroy it.
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Flashrain
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Posted - 2008.09.20 11:59:00 -
[40]
There are more stations in a single empire constellation than all of 0.0 space combined.
By being indestructible, a station compels the holding alliance to recruit players to defend it. More stations would force the alliance to attract more members, moving player population out of empire and into 0.0.
By being indestructible, a station offers the chance to be retaken. Creating further opportunities for player interaction.
By being indestructible, stations make it more and more difficult for an entity such as Band of Brothers to truly raze a region. Being forced to hold those stations keeps any entity from easily gaining dominance over wide swaths of the game. Just virtue of permanently fixed, stations maintain political balance.
By being indestructible, stations make 0.0 more attractive for players to transition with a place to store assets relatively safe.
If any change is to be made, it should be lifting the 1 station per system limit, allowing multiple stations to be built in a single system. The attacking force is incumbent to watch multiple stations at the same time. The defending force would have the option to counter on multiple points.
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Vyktor Abyss
IONSTAR Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.20 13:50:00 -
[41]
Players: We'd like to stop the spawn of outposts before they cover every 0.0 system by being able to destroy them, because it makes sense and adds to the game.
CCP: Sorry but thats too much work. If you can do this without us requiring some work then let us know.
Players: We'd like to effectively do the same as destroying them by making them derelict, but taking into account your mechanics tied to outposts you dont have to do as much work.
CCP: See last CCP comment - question answered. Next idea please?
- Sorry but thats just how things look to me as a subscriber.
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Khandara Seraphim
StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.09.21 00:23:00 -
[42]
While I can understand that it's a lot of work, surely CCP can realize the inherent problems with creating indestructible stations in what is supposed to be a cold harsh universe where player run nations rise and fall etc etc
... maybe not soon, but eventually EVERY system in eve WILL have a station. It's just a matter of time and isk.
What happens then?
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Aales Eae
Solus Navy
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:47:00 -
[43]
Bump, good feedback here Butter Dog = Bitter Puppy
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kiki doe
Gallente Hidden Leaf Village Industry
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Posted - 2008.09.21 22:44:00 -
[44]
'Powerful enough to destroy a Titan in seconds' *Stairs* Overly powerful we want the things to be destroyable anything that can kill a Titan that quickly how powerful would it be against a bs or dread fleet 3 mins 30 dreads die.
I like the derelict idea maybe a new mod could be brought out like a salvager or codebreaker to get mods and bp's from the station. But the risk is that it could be camped and very powerful NPC rats come to loot aswell, so you can only stay there for a few mins in small ships. And so that a alliance can't just derelict it and raid it themselves for isk is that they can't search for items in it. Also it should have to be scanned out increasing the risks and mods should take a while to recover items.
I think maybe a limit of 20 pos guns should be able to be set up and can be controlled by people in station (With appropriate skills) But the guns are stronger and do more DPS to ships than a normal pos gun. Also they can only be used when a Outpost enters a certain state like a lockdown mode where other station systems aren't readily availible so small fleets can still camp but when a larger fleet comes it can be activated.
Sorry for the wall of text folks.
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Central Research Nexus
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Posted - 2008.09.21 22:47:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Clansworth
Originally by: CCP Lingorm This was brought up by the CSM. We answered it there. Here is the text notes of that meeting.
That is, unless of course, an NPC flys a Nyx Mothership into the station. I find a pretty large contradiction that the devs on one hand say it is not going to happen, and on the other hand, make it appear to be a 'feature' in official game trailers.
Except, last time I was there, the station was for all intents and purposes a normal station with a new model. ----
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Flashrain
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Posted - 2008.09.24 03:22:00 -
[46]
Ok, maybe not in seconds. How about minutes? A station is anywhere 30-50 times more expensive than a deathstar POS. It should field more firepower than anything else in game except a doomsday device.
Hell, if CCP wants a very easy way to implement this: 1. Flag a Outposts as special moons.
Since players can anchor POS at moons. Players can then anchor POS at station. And anchor guns at POS, thereby protecting the station.
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H0NZA
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Posted - 2008.09.24 04:22:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Julius Rigel
Originally by: Artemis Rose So you want go thru the process of killing the defenders, removing POSes and demoralizing your enemy, you want to claim your victory by destroying your brand new outpost rather than keeping it?
It's a perfectly functional tactic. Rather than thinning and weakening your own ranks by defending a landmark, just plunder and burn, then continue on to the next village.
Correct.
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Flashrain
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Posted - 2008.09.24 22:39:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Flashrain on 24/09/2008 22:40:34 Every civilization who has done the plunder and burn tactic is dead: Vikings, Mongolians, etc.,.
The most successful ones used occupational forces: Romans, British, Americans, Russians.
It would be one way to solve CCP's lag problem, by driving away long term players.
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Saietor Blackgreen
The First Foundation
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Posted - 2008.09.25 09:04:00 -
[49]
I'd say that pillaging Derelicted outposts for the contents of personal or corporation hangars may be as difficult to implement as destruction of the outposts.
Also, it would contradict the logic somewhat - if you conquer the station, you cant access the hangars, but if you destroy it, you can? WTF?
BUT if it is possible and can be implemented, it could be cool if its done by a combination of analyser/salvager/hacking modules used on the outpost derelict, probably more than single one. This would give a chance to salvage something form the hangars.
Also, the size of cargohold should matter - if the salvaged object is bigger than cargo, your attempt fails. Or the salvaged stuff could just be jettisoned into space...
Assembled ships should not be available for retrieval anyway - they have their own security systems and stuff. Or they should be jettissoned too, just not in the container, obviously.
Overall, nice idea, but huge potential for exploits :)
--- Redesign local/scanner feature - make the place huge, dark and scary again! |
frsd
Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.09.25 13:50:00 -
[50]
You know guys there should only be this way to destroy stations
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.09.25 16:42:00 -
[51]
Destroying a outpost would require several scripts to run through the going ons at the outpost.
- All production and research is canceled, items get delivered into the hangars as normal. Any attempt to install a new job fails or even better, the lines on outpost are removed from the list. Every player or corporation affected gets a evemail informing of this for each job.
- All market orders in the station are canceled. Items are returned to the hangars and ISK is returned to the wallets as appropriate. New orders cannot be placed, the outpost is moved for market purposes out of range. Players and corporations receive a evemail for every order canceled in that way.
- Contracts in the station get deleted, items get moved to the hangars, ISK is returned, contract owners get a evemail for every contract. No new contracts can be set up in the station.
- Hangars get read out and all items in the hangar will either get destroyed, partially destroyed and/or put into loot cans in a rough pattern around the station. Ships in the hangar get moved into space and destroyed normally, leaving normal wrecks. Owners will receive a list of items lost that way per evemail.
- The outpost gets replaced with a debris field that can be salvaged for commodities used in outpost construction. This field is made up of plenty individual items and will disappear after a while as gravity draws the parts in.
There you go: Outposts have turned from nice places to do business into gargantuan pinatas. Now balancing the difficulty of popping a outpost with the possible rewards is a mean female dog.
The other option would be to decommission the outpost once you took it over, giving the former owners a chance to take it back to save their stuff. Decommissioning would do the same as described above, minus any wreckage/destruction.
All assets in the station would be transfered to the corporation that handles the outpost at some point shortly before dismantling is complete. A good amount of the commodities used in building the outpost could be recovered.
Balancing this with a time window to allow taking the outpost back before decommissioning is also a mean female dog.
It could be done, sure, but feasible in the near or foreseeable future it is not. Unless some major time is invested to make a sovereignty focused expansion this will not be happening, in my humble opinion.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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