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Sky Marshal
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:03:00 -
[1]
Hello,
Well... Recently, CCP makes each element of the UI more independant, resizeable, stackable and moveable.
The problem : This capabilities makes also the game more annoying to use.
Each day, I have to deal with many screwed positions because I commit the crime to open a Show Info window or a fitting window when the market one is opened, or the crime to be in a fleet, etc...
Exemple : An exemple with the station column, before and after docking while I am in a fleet The station column take all the vertical right space of the screen (as always). But when I enter in a fleet, the broadcast window, that I set just bottom of the overview, can screw the station column after docking.
Hahaha... Ok... So each time that happens, I have to resize the station column to his precedent state again and move the broadcast at his previous position, but I know that I will encounter that the next time I undock/redock.
It wouldn't be a problem if it was the only case...
An another exemple, a Show Info who screw the market (and himself) position/size Aha aha aha... EVE can be really surprising to be able to make this thing. We all know the real size of a Show Info window... It is more annoying sometimes, as in this exemple, only the position of the market has changed, not the size...
Of course, this is not the only exemple of this behaviour.
So every day, play at EVE is a nightmare as the UI become more and more annoying. Every day, I have to correct many unwanted position/size of a window to the precedent state.
There was a day that I never did something like that, not at this frequency at least.
With a low resolution monitor (1280*1024), it is impossible to try to correct this behaviour with new positions or sizes, I don't have the space. There are some days that I want the CCP UI designer fired .
I had already enough problem with the settings (They have the Alzheimer syndrome), now I have that.
Am I the only one to think that CCP has a real problem with the UI ?
Or is there a way to change this annoying behaviour before I become crazy ?
____
14/20 Revelations : Desyncs... 11/20 Trinity : BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs 10/20 1.1 : [...] + EXP shield nerf 07/20 ½ Not a single nerf + : What ?!? CCP is the real problem of EVE |
Arthur Frayn
V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:05:00 -
[2]
That's the crappiest interface colouring I've ever seen.
-- Eventus stultorum magister. |
Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:06:00 -
[3]
OP has a point.
WoW UI is way better than EVE's.
10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 |
Lily Sarman
Ratio Decidendi
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:07:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Lily Sarman on 20/09/2008 15:09:12 I had a stable UI the way I wanted it and then I made the mistake of moving something slightly and now every time I dock or undock I have to resize and move windows around just to get them back to where I want them. It is annoying but I do it automatically now so its not too bad. It would be nice if things stayed where you put them.
The WoW interface does the job but what makes it good is that its open to adjustment with mods. My WoW UI is nothing like the basic one that comes with the game but its extremely intuitive and makes the game easier to play. If CCP would allow players to adjust their UI in the same way it would make life a lot easier for us all. -------------------------------------------
Cheerfulness in the face of adversity |
Falaricae
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:21:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Demitria Fernir OP has a point.
WoW UI is way better than EVE's.
TBH EVE has the worst UI I have seen in any commercial product. Instead of making the game easier to manage you have to stay on guard to avoid costly mistakes and you have to struggle against it, since it seems to have a will of its own. Even a simple thing like nailing down the goddamn windows would be a gigantic step for the better. I do wish they would make repairing/making a new UI a top priority. It is the only thing that I dislike about EVE.
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Falaricae
Originally by: Demitria Fernir OP has a point.
WoW UI is way better than EVE's.
TBH EVE has the worst UI I have seen in any commercial product. Instead of making the game easier to manage you have to stay on guard to avoid costly mistakes and you have to struggle against it, since it seems to have a will of its own. Even a simple thing like nailing down the goddamn windows would be a gigantic step for the better. I do wish they would make repairing/making a new UI a top priority. It is the only thing that I dislike about EVE.
You know the drill
WOW is always right that way ------>
10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 |
hired goon
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:22:00 -
[7]
Yeah, windows that didn't teleport around and change size when they want would be better. -omg-
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Bish Ounen
Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:23:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Demitria Fernir OP has a point.
WoW UI is way better than EVE's.
WoW UI also has about, what, 1/4 the information that the EvE UI has to impart?
The reason the EvE UI is so cluttered is because it has to;
A) be usable by any of a half-dozen different professions, each of which needs a completely different UI arrangement
B) be usable for ANY AND ALL of those professions at ANY given time, because many players will change up their play style on an hour to hour basis
C) be able to show all critical information at a glance.
D) because of A, B and C must be completely reconfigurable in any of a thousand different ways at a moment's notice.
Needless to say, this is a nearly impossible order. Yes, the UI could stand some improvement. NO, the WoW UI is NOT a good example. Tactical Logistics using the last T1 Frigate hull!
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Originally by: Demitria Fernir OP has a point.
WoW UI is way better than EVE's.
WoW UI also has about, what, 1/4 the information that the EvE UI has to impart?
The reason the EvE UI is so cluttered is because it has to;
A) be usable by any of a half-dozen different professions, each of which needs a completely different UI arrangement
B) be usable for ANY AND ALL of those professions at ANY given time, because many players will change up their play style on an hour to hour basis
C) be able to show all critical information at a glance.
D) because of A, B and C must be completely reconfigurable in any of a thousand different ways at a moment's notice.
Needless to say, this is a nearly impossible order. Yes, the UI could stand some improvement. NO, the WoW UI is NOT a good example.
E) Be able to **** off every player, no matter what he is doing in the game.
10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 |
Myra2007
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:32:00 -
[10]
Its quite embarassing for a company to have such a bugged ui in their product. But tbh they do not care at all. I think when the csm brought this up on their iceland meeting CCP Hammer (lead game designer iirc) said those were "niggling" issues. I mean does he even load up the game sometimes?
Using up half of your gametime to rearrange windows is not fun and its in no way "niggling". But yeah they don't care so nothing is gonna happen. And if anyone posts something about these bugs they're told to clear their cache and stfu essentially.
Its a disgrace.
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Mankirks Wife
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:34:00 -
[11]
I was a raid healer in WoW, back when that meant keeping 40 people alive, including yourself. The secret with why WoW's UI, especially the vanilla UI back when the game first started, is good is because it's so customizable (via script add-ons) and behaves properly.
Eve's UI is the worst part of the game, and always has been. A lot of us are used to it now but that doesn't excuse it from being so terrible as to be an embarrassment to CCP. ---
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Tippia
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:35:00 -
[12]
…my windows stay put where I want them…
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Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:37:00 -
[13]
Because the people at CCP who knew what they were doing have long since jumped ship.
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:43:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Tippia àmy windows stay put where I want themà
I trashed XP for Ubuntu. Way easier to do stuff now
10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 |
Lily Sarman
Ratio Decidendi
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:48:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Lily Sarman on 20/09/2008 15:55:15 Edited by: Lily Sarman on 20/09/2008 15:52:44 Edited by: Lily Sarman on 20/09/2008 15:50:33
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Originally by: Demitria Fernir OP has a point.
WoW UI is way better than EVE's.
WoW UI also has about, what, 1/4 the information that the EvE UI has to impart?
The reason the EvE UI is so cluttered is because it has to;
A) be usable by any of a half-dozen different professions, each of which needs a completely different UI arrangement
B) be usable for ANY AND ALL of those professions at ANY given time, because many players will change up their play style on an hour to hour basis
C) be able to show all critical information at a glance.
D) because of A, B and C must be completely reconfigurable in any of a thousand different ways at a moment's notice.
Needless to say, this is a nearly impossible order. Yes, the UI could stand some improvement. NO, the WoW UI is NOT a good example.
The WoW UI works well for WoW and the Eve UI works ok for Eve on the whole part but needs more customisation.. I think you're overstating the comlexity of UI needed for Eve. The one thing I'd like to see Eve impliment is the ability to make and save several UI's that can be flicked through on demand, the ability to set several orbit and maintaining distance ranges so you don't have to fiddle around with putting new ones in when you change ammo, and more reliable windows that stay where you put them. -------------------------------------------
Cheerfulness in the face of adversity |
Svenjabi Xiang
Gallente Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:48:00 -
[16]
My suggestion to you is to go to the options panel (on the escape window), click the reset for default window positions, and ADJUST YOURSELF TO THEM. At least as much as is possible.
It may not be pretty, or as completely useful as you'd prefer, but it's predictable.
The more changes that you customize from the default, the more likely it is that you're going to get it into a state that wasn't considered when programming.
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:49:00 -
[17]
WOW FLAMEBAIT ITT
10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 |
Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.09.20 15:56:00 -
[18]
You can avoid most moving window problems by being careful where you position them. Never let one window snap onto the side of another one. Either keep them apart of have them overlap.
The window moving is largely caused by the target of a snap (ie;the window that wasn't being moved) closing before the window that was snapped to it. You can think of it like leaning sitting down in a chair. Everything is fine unless someone removes the chair in which case you fall on your arse.
Now just to be clear - I'm not defending the UI. Frankly, in my opinion as a 4.5+ year veteran, it stinks. The fact that in this day and age CCP still haven't got the quirks ironed out of it is pathetic. It was embarrassing when I started playing in February 2004 and every year that it moulders and CCP attempt to jury rig fixes for it just makes it worse.
Windowed UIs are standard fare on modern computers and there is no excuse for not getting it right. In the meantime though - avoid attaching windows to each other and you should avoid the worst of it. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Anonymous Troll
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Posted - 2008.09.20 16:23:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Andrue
Now just to be clear - I'm not defending the UI. Frankly, in my opinion as a 4.5+ year veteran, it stinks.
This saved you from my flaming wrath. There are no excuses for the UI in its current state. None.
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Lucky 8
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.09.20 16:35:00 -
[20]
I hate the Eve UI... srsly I do. Its ****ing horrible. --
Originally by: Nicho Void This thread is like a chum slick for forum alt trolls.
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Falaricae
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Posted - 2008.09.20 16:53:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Falaricae on 20/09/2008 16:54:06
Originally by: Demitria Fernir
Originally by: Falaricae
Originally by: Demitria Fernir OP has a point.
WoW UI is way better than EVE's.
TBH EVE has the worst UI I have seen in any commercial product. Instead of making the game easier to manage you have to stay on guard to avoid costly mistakes and you have to struggle against it, since it seems to have a will of its own. Even a simple thing like nailing down the goddamn windows would be a gigantic step for the better. I do wish they would make repairing/making a new UI a top priority. It is the only thing that I dislike about EVE.
You know the drill
WOW is always right that way ------>
I'll take the "It is the only thing I dislike about EVE" over "It is one of the few things I like about WOW" every time
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Mea Lustra
Amarr United Sentients
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Posted - 2008.09.20 17:34:00 -
[22]
Uhm, while it was overwhelming at first I really don't see the problem with the interface. You can set (or actually disable) the window snapping and all that, the only problem I have is the fleet windows, those are annoying.
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dr doooo
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Posted - 2008.09.20 17:36:00 -
[23]
It does seem to have got worse with every patch. The windows moving around drive me crazy, and my pet hate - not being able to move open windows partly off screen any more. And those screen wide minimised strips, sometimes in the middle of the screen, that hide under other windows, rather than the perfectly useful tabs at the bottom left of the screen we used to have. I mean what was that change all about? Had they all been up in the mountains eating fungi all week? It's very hard to do a lot of stuff on a 15" screen now, that used to be no problem at all.
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Victor Kruger
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Posted - 2008.09.20 17:43:00 -
[24]
I always found the right-click options to be rather hilarious. Why CCP doesn't offer more things like "attack next Concord vessel" or "self destruct without further notice" in your menu options when clicking in space is beyond me. It would also help to make those options 12 pt and the actually useful stuff 6 pt.
The same goes for the options when docked. Put "make active" in between "trash it" and "repackage and sell at lowest possible price", also with 12 and 6 pt text size. I'm sure this would be some great UI improvements. --------------- Hey, where's my portrait |
VeryFREEE Christmas
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Posted - 2008.09.20 17:46:00 -
[25]
Learn to use the 'pin' function on windows and pin your station interface.
Close the show info window when its not linked to market and i'll open on its own.
Also, make sure you have 'only open one show info window at a time' option selected. YOu can always shift-click to get another.
I honestly dont share any of your problems because I pin. My only complaint is there can be alot of windows being jogged at one time, being able to tab a few, much like overview tabs, would be an excellent option.
Hell, completely rehauling it and allowing customizable UI's would be the rule, but who know's if that's possible.
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Maria Kalista
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Posted - 2008.09.20 17:48:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Myra2007 But tbh they do not care at all.
Its a disgrace.
Oh please FO!
CCP *knows*, and they do care. They have a newly assigned team to fix this. Please do not let your ignorance be in the way of the tiny bits of your brain.
Yes, it sux. Do they know? They do. Why not fix it asap? Because any fix will probably offset something else and makes things worse! This takes time!
I do not have any walking windows myself, except for the drone window, and considering that I'm behind a wrapper on a Mac, you might be doing things wrong your self. Even not intended, don't have windows snap to each other might help you a long way.
Still the 'they don't care' remark shows only how limited your brain can function, please stop posting and get back to wow.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal You put a bear in your tea???
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Myra2007
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.20 17:49:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Mea Lustra Uhm, while it was overwhelming at first I really don't see the problem with the interface. You can set (or actually disable) the window snapping and all that, the only problem I have is the fleet windows, those are annoying.
How? I can set snap distance down to 3 but thats it. What the name of the option that disables this sorry excuse of a feature?
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Myra2007
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.09.20 17:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Maria Kalista lots of childish insults
Dude, you have absolutely no clue. If CCP Hammer calling these issues "niggling" and ccp not fixing them for over one year is how they care about it then its just not enough.
As for the insults and stuff - grow up dude seriously.
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Mr Friendly
That it Should Come to This
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Posted - 2008.09.20 18:26:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Bish Ounen
Originally by: Demitria Fernir OP has a point.
WoW UI is way better than EVE's.
WoW UI also has about, what, 1/4 the information that the EvE UI has to impart?
The reason the EvE UI is so cluttered is because it has to;
A) be usable by any of a half-dozen different professions, each of which needs a completely different UI arrangement
B) be usable for ANY AND ALL of those professions at ANY given time, because many players will change up their play style on an hour to hour basis
C) be able to show all critical information at a glance.
D) because of A, B and C must be completely reconfigurable in any of a thousand different ways at a moment's notice.
Needless to say, this is a nearly impossible order. Yes, the UI could stand some improvement. NO, the WoW UI is NOT a good example.
wat
Eve's UI is one of the *least* flexible UIs I've ever seen. Are you daft? It's a ruddy nightmare to get an efficient layout for *any* playstyle, let alone one. It's clumsy, unintuitive, inflexible, breaks regularly and hard to actually see.
You are either blind to Eve's problems or your very inexperienced in games.
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Metal Monster
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Posted - 2008.09.20 18:32:00 -
[30]
Wow that way --->
This is EVE, you dont like it ? Cya!
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Lily Sarman
Ratio Decidendi
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Posted - 2008.09.20 18:38:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Lily Sarman on 20/09/2008 18:39:31
Originally by: Metal Monster Wow that way --->
This is EVE, you dont like it ? Cya!
You know if thats how Eve dealt with game issues it wouldn't have anyone left playing the game? The WoW generic WoW bashing is a little tiring especially since I suspect many people who do it have never actually played the game for a substantial amount of time.
The WoW people who play the 14 day trial and announce that Eve is crap are of the same stock as those who have only played WoW for a month or so and annouce thats its crap. I played the game for nearly four years so I know exactly whats its like and what its strong and weak points are.
Ultimately the strength of WoW's UI is nothing to do with Blizzard directly but rather those who take the time to create and maintain addons for a game they enjoy playing. As there are plenty of people who clearly enjoy playing this game so the allowing of addons would no doubt be followed by a barrage of addons some of which some would be useful. -------------------------------------------
Cheerfulness in the face of adversity |
Biostacis
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Posted - 2008.09.20 18:43:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Victor Kruger I always found the right-click options to be rather hilarious. Why CCP doesn't offer more things like "attack next Concord vessel" or "self destruct without further notice" in your menu options when clicking in space is beyond me. It would also help to make those options 12 pt and the actually useful stuff 6 pt.
The same goes for the options when docked. Put "make active" in between "trash it" and "repackage and sell at lowest possible price", also with 12 and 6 pt text size. I'm sure this would be some great UI improvements.
i love you
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.09.20 18:46:00 -
[33]
Originally by: VeryFREEE Christmas I honestly dont share any of your problems because I pin.
You are sadly mistaken. Pinning is not the answer. Pinned windows will still move around. You can actuall move a pinned window by unpinning the window it is snapped to and move that. The pinned window will follow it around like a little puppy dog. Close the window you're moving and the pinned window will like as not move to the bottom of the screen. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years)
[Brackley, UK]
My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned. |
Norian Lonark
Gallente Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.20 20:01:00 -
[34]
Personally I have never really had that much of a problem with Eve's UI. I also played wow for a while and wow's UI is extremley simplistic compared to that of Eve imo and not a good comparision.
To the OP that coloring is pretty awful
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Sky Marshal
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.09.20 21:37:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 20/09/2008 21:37:35
I know for my coloring but it is not the subject ^^
Originally by: VeryFREEE Christmas Learn to use the 'pin' function on windows and pin your station interface.
I just tried to pin the station and undock/redock while in fleet : He has been resized/moved, but the broadcast go to the bottom of the screen instead of top : [Screenshot Linkage]
If I activate the "Lock Windows When Pinned" (in General Settings), the broadcast act like the first screenshot... In fact for me, the 'pin' function only retire the opacity of a window, it does nothing more.
The "don't snap" solution told by Andrue works for many of the other windows, Thanks :)
I hope that CCP will modify one day this UI for something more usable or customizable.
____
14/20 Revelations : Desyncs... 11/20 Trinity : BBSOD, Bugs, Desyncs, F*** Nerfs 10/20 1.1 : [...] + EXP shield nerf 07/20 ½ Not a single nerf + : What ?!? CCP is the real problem of EVE |
Gallente Price
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:43:00 -
[36]
Weird, I think its become better.
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Asestorian
Federation of Freedom Fighters Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.09.21 15:51:00 -
[37]
The UI is great for me. Everything stays where it's supposed to. Although then again, my drones window is missing.
But otherwise it's all fine and dandy, and does what I want it to. WoW's UI is terrible, and it being able to have addons doesn't make it better. That just means that you can import a better one to it. I don't really want that to happen to EVE though because we all know what will happen. Certain addons will become required to do anything in the game, and that's just bad.
---
Originally by: CCP Atropos Destiny Balls
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Trucker Jim
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:11:00 -
[38]
yes, they shoud simplify the UI.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:12:00 -
[39]
The newest batch of UI problems were brought about because people whined about the UI and CCP did some work on it as a result.
Keep it up, maybe if people whine long enough they'll actually make it as bad as people say it is. -
DesuSigs |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2008.09.21 16:12:00 -
[40]
1024x768 here, so everything is squeezed tight and there's lots of border to snap to but i've had less trouble since i lower snap distance to 3 - putting the gist back into logistics |
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Harvey Lemming
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Posted - 2008.09.22 01:23:00 -
[41]
Pinning doesn't help me either. My overview and drone windows like to wander around on me.
And yes, EVE's UI could use some tweaking; sooner rather than later would be nice.
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Necrosmith
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.09.22 03:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: VeryFREEE Christmas Learn to use the 'pin' function on windows and pin your station interface.
The only thing pinning does for me is make the window transparent. ------------- "Isk is cheap. Life is cheaper. This week, they're having a sale on both." Laugh until you cry: Battle Asses
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Anonymous Troll
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Posted - 2008.09.22 04:08:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Metal Monster Wow that way --->
This is EVE, you dont like it ? Cya!
You can keep saying that until the day they shut the servers down because Eve is not making enough money.
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Stormaar
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.22 08:18:00 -
[44]
EvE UI is Trabant style - u can drive it, but u cant say about it to frends.
Im love EvE, but im hate EvE UI, too much topics about it, too much extremely radical peoples who didnt care about it and don't want understand one simple thing - they not one's who play EvE.
U like current UI - stay away from topics like this. U didnt like it - say, and may be in one day we see better UI in EvE and say: Gods! Bless CCP for great work.
----- Customizable UI / internal API for mods/addons |
Kale Kold
Vicious Little Killers
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Posted - 2008.09.22 08:51:00 -
[45]
I must say that too i am absolutely thoroughly cheesed off with the GUI in EVE. The window positions are always moving, you never know where the window will open next, also what size it will be! How can you rely on this crap when in a fight or other important situations!
The UI is complete utter toss, i mean do CCP actually employ ANY user interface developers????
Come on CPP YOU MUST DO BETTER!!!
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Julius Rigel
House Rigel
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Posted - 2008.09.22 10:24:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn That's the crappiest interface colouring I've ever seen.
You can NEVER have too much salmon!
Originally by: Roemy Schneider 1024x768 here, so everything is squeezed tight and there's lots of border to snap to but i've had less trouble since i lower snap distance to 3
This. - Frigate racing is fast and fun! Julius Rigel, NPC-PC equal rights activist! |
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