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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Joe D'Trader
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:59:00 -
[631] - Quote
Lt Pizi wrote:Quote:
You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.
hate to be the bringer of bad news to you but 1 , a member of the CSM has just shown that he isnt adult enough to handle alcohol and 2, CSM was never a democracy
Dude, do you know why the CSM was made? Please tell me you have more than a 2 year history. |
Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:00:00 -
[632] - Quote
Joe D'Trader wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:Quote:
You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.
hate to be the bringer of bad news to you but 1 , a member of the CSM has just shown that he isnt adult enough to handle alcohol and 2, CSM was never a democracy Dude, do you know why the CSM was made? Please tell me you have more than a 2 year history. and that is exactly relevant to my post how ?
CSM are expected to adhere to the EULA/TOS and carry themselves in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1716
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:00:00 -
[633] - Quote
Joe D'Trader wrote:[You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.
So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community?
You cannot be "independent" of the need to have the interests of Eve Online and its player community at heart.
The real problem with Alexander Gianturco is he didn't really give a monkeys about the Eve online community - he only cared for SA and goonswarm.
But regardless CCP have acted fairly in punishing him quite leniently really. Many players would have liked to see him permabanned for what he did so a 30 day ban is a slap on the wrists. The real punishment has been delivered to goonswarm itself whose players have wasted their votes, but to be honest, goonswarm probably deserve this punishment as well given their appalling behaviour on the forums over this incident.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
bestposteringoonfleet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:01:00 -
[634] - Quote
You can take away my CSM leader... but you cannot take away our ability to ruin your game.
|
Joe D'Trader
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:01:00 -
[635] - Quote
Lt Pizi wrote:Joe D'Trader wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:Quote:
You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.
hate to be the bringer of bad news to you but 1 , a member of the CSM has just shown that he isnt adult enough to handle alcohol and 2, CSM was never a democracy Dude, do you know why the CSM was made? Please tell me you have more than a 2 year history. and that is exactly relevant to my post how ?
You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy. |
Victyrael
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
24
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:01:00 -
[636] - Quote
This was a poor knee-jerk reaction to what happened. Sure, what was said was wrong but CCP you have, by your decision, disenfranchised and made clear that the interests of over 10 thousand people you supposedly value are to be ignored.
You have deprived everyone of the abilities and experience Alex can - and has - brought to the table. Sanctions are necessary here to prevent this happening again, but your course of action is incorrect. You cannot create an environment as you did at the Fanfest panel and not expect some issues. You cannot ignore your own failings in the event. You cannot disenfranchise your players that fund your business.
"CCP delivers" - the wrong results. |
Koby Botick
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
62
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:01:00 -
[637] - Quote
Li Ter wrote:it was broadcast via EVE TV..... which CCP control, which means the ToS/EULA is applicable since its a CCP service
There is NOTHING in the TOS about inciting others to do something being actionable. CCP unilaterally, without discussion decided to throw away 1/6th of all the voters and claim it does violate the TOS. We can all agree or disagree that it was unacceptable, it doesn't change the fact that it was NOT AGAINST THE TOS. CCP decided to destroy this election. We shall see how happy this will make them in the long term.
|
Mortuus Adamo
Wipe Corp.
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:02:00 -
[638] - Quote
bestposteringoonfleet wrote:
CCP should permaban all goons. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
254
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:03:00 -
[639] - Quote
This is sad.....
I think the banning is appropriate to send a message to Alliance Panel Leaders that their actions can have consequences if they go to far.
At the same time, he was enormously helpful to CSM 6, and I think he'll be enormously helpful to CSM 7 too!!!!! Don't remove him from the CSM!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's too much!!!
|
Li Ter
Me Shoot Laser You Eye
22
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:03:00 -
[640] - Quote
kdsjfjhiskhfs wrote:Ignore 10058 people is just pure lol what a shame.
I would like remind you 10058 x 15 usd x 12 months =~ 1.800.000 usd are you forget what happen when you ignore eve players (u know its called incarna)
un sub then? lets see all 10058 of you unsub...... |
|
Joe D'Trader
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:03:00 -
[641] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:Joe D'Trader wrote:[You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent. So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community? You cannot be "independent" of the need to have the interests of Eve Online and its player community at heart. The real problem with Alexander Gianturco is he didn't really give a monkeys about the Eve online community - he only cared for SA and goonswarm. But regardless CCP have acted fairly in punishing him quite leniently really. Many players would have liked to see him permabanned for what he did so a 30 day ban is a slap on the wrists. The real punishment has been delivered to goonswarm itself whose players have wasted their votes, but to be honest, goonswarm probably deserve this punishment as well given their appalling behaviour on the forums over this incident.
I don't necessarily disagree with his 30 day ban, and yes I fully agree that it is well withing CCPs right to do it. But there are rights and there is intellegence. This isn't the most intellegent process. CCP could have and should have told the CSM that due to Mittens actions they believe it is best if he isn't on the CSM this year. THE CSM should have made this announcement.
Are they a rubber stamp or are they an actual useful body? |
Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:04:00 -
[642] - Quote
Joe D'Trader wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:Joe D'Trader wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:Quote:
You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.
hate to be the bringer of bad news to you but 1 , a member of the CSM has just shown that he isnt adult enough to handle alcohol and 2, CSM was never a democracy Dude, do you know why the CSM was made? Please tell me you have more than a 2 year history. and that is exactly relevant to my post how ? You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.
in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month
if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it or not
CCP is like putin
CSM are expected to adhere to the EULA/TOS and carry themselves in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1718
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:05:00 -
[643] - Quote
Joe D'Trader wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:Joe D'Trader wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:Quote:
You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent.
hate to be the bringer of bad news to you but 1 , a member of the CSM has just shown that he isnt adult enough to handle alcohol and 2, CSM was never a democracy Dude, do you know why the CSM was made? Please tell me you have more than a 2 year history. and that is exactly relevant to my post how ? You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.
Yeah it was made partially in response to the developer corruption scandal that involved T20 and Band of Brothers alliance and make sure the players had oversight to ensure that could never happen again.
The irony is we almost had a situation where Mittani was boasting of being in control of developers and influence within CCP and replaying this corrupt old scenario again. Had Mittani not been appropriately punished over his behaviour at Fanfest many many players and many external media sites would have considered he was being given unfair treatment that other players could not expect.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
131
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:06:00 -
[644] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote: So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community?
If I was one of the remaining CSM members I'd sure as **** be considering resigning right now. If CCP had any intention of taking their much lauded (in both the gaming and mainstream press) player council seriously they'd have either respected the consensus they reached or told them right from the start it was out of their hands. Instead the CSM are given the illusion of legitimacy then overruled mere hours later.
That doesn't sound like the new CCP we were promised oh so recently, that sounds like the bad CCP of old who suffer from bad internal communication and schizophrenic public relations.
And that doesn't bear well for the future of Eve.
|
Theodoric Darkwind
PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
155
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:06:00 -
[645] - Quote
Andski wrote:The only appropriate solution is to either leave Mittani on the council or start a new election. Disenfranchising a vocal group of players with 10,058 - 20% of the voting base - accounts between them is never, ever acceptable.
^^
If CCP insists on disenfranchising over 10k paying customers then its probably time to teach CCP a lesson that will hurt them where it counts. Time to burn EVE to the ground.
|
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:06:00 -
[646] - Quote
bestposteringoonfleet wrote:
of course, you've already ruined the game for more than 2 years, this is just a late and minor payback |
Joe D'Trader
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:07:00 -
[647] - Quote
Lt Pizi wrote:
You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.
in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month
if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it or not
CCP is like putin
CCP is like Putin... so I shouldn't pay any attention to you then, ok. Have a nice day. Scroll up and see Jade's response. That is a semi well thought out response. |
Temmu Guerra
Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
53
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:07:00 -
[648] - Quote
To be honest mittens did this to himself to be quite honest. Had he not been such a huge **** in game so many people wouldnt want his head on a spit...
Guess the only thing to say is karma is a b!tch |
Luba Cibre
Global Song Setup
92
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:08:00 -
[649] - Quote
Unsubbing goons won't be ccps biggest problem in about one month haha. |
Chris LaPlant
Nex Exercitus Raiden.
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:08:00 -
[650] - Quote
Ah Goon tears. They sustain me. |
|
Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:09:00 -
[651] - Quote
Joe D'Trader wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:
You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.
in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month
if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it or not
CCP is like putin
CCP is like Putin... so I shouldn't pay any attention to you then, ok. Have a nice day. Scroll up and see Jade's response. That is a semi well thought out response.
another advice for you you will get badrepped from your buddies for praising jade ...
CSM are expected to adhere to the EULA/TOS and carry themselves in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1718
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:09:00 -
[652] - Quote
Joe D'Trader wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Joe D'Trader wrote:[You've played this game longer than I have, you were around when the CSM was actually formed and why it was formed. The CSM should be independent. They are adults and yes it is CCP's game, but interfering with a democratically elected body that in part is there to ensure that CCP is being "fair" in game is a horrible precedent. So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community? You cannot be "independent" of the need to have the interests of Eve Online and its player community at heart. The real problem with Alexander Gianturco is he didn't really give a monkeys about the Eve online community - he only cared for SA and goonswarm. But regardless CCP have acted fairly in punishing him quite leniently really. Many players would have liked to see him permabanned for what he did so a 30 day ban is a slap on the wrists. The real punishment has been delivered to goonswarm itself whose players have wasted their votes, but to be honest, goonswarm probably deserve this punishment as well given their appalling behaviour on the forums over this incident. I don't necessarily disagree with his 30 day ban, and yes I fully agree that it is well withing CCPs right to do it. But there are rights and there is intellegence. This isn't the most intellegent process. CCP could have and should have told the CSM that due to Mittens actions they believe it is best if he isn't on the CSM this year. THE CSM should have made this announcement. Are they a rubber stamp or are they an actual useful body?
I said earlier I think the CSM was damaged immensely last year by being used as a virtual "rubber stamp" for Alexander Gianturco himself. The presentation style and behind closed doors zero record keeping shoddy minutes and generally secretive approach to CSM was a pretty regressive devolution of what was originally quite transparent and accountable.
Alexander in his alliance leadership style in Goonswarm promotes an alpha male -> beta male hierarchy thing and unfortunately this followed into his chairmanship of the CSM. Thats why the current (last) lot can't really think of operating without him.
So to your question. At the moment I'm honestly not sure if they are any use any more.
Thats the long and short of it.
I voted for a new face to bring something fresh to the process - > Hans, but he ended up with an alternate slot. Fingers crossed he can make a difference.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
xXv1c10usXx
Alchemy Corp
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:11:00 -
[653] - Quote
Yeep wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community?
If I was one of the remaining CSM members I'd sure as **** be considering resigning right now. If CCP had any intention of taking their much lauded (in both the gaming and mainstream press) player council seriously they'd have either respected the consensus they reached or told them right from the start it was out of their hands. Instead the CSM are given the illusion of legitimacy then overruled mere hours later. That doesn't sound like the new CCP we were promised oh so recently, that sounds like the bad CCP of old who suffer from bad internal communication and schizophrenic public relations. And that doesn't bear well for the future of Eve.
Swammy Say (looking in to the crystal ball now) Official Alliance soon to be formed called "Band of Developers". CSM8 will all be members of said alliance. Darius III will change his portrait to be one of skin that is dark brown (stained from all the SH!T is absorbs while up BOD's alliance ass). |
Zarrack Zenndah
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:11:00 -
[654] - Quote
Goon tears?? This thread is drowning in Goon tears? My, my. Why does the sound reaching my ears from the Goons sound so similar to that normally heard from Goon victims?
Do you feel it is unfair? Do you feel it is outside the rules? Did you just want to play your game your way and not have anyone else in Eve enjoy your grief?
Eve is a sandbox, you want a regimented rigid MMO go play WOW else deal with it and HTFU.
|
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:12:00 -
[655] - Quote
well i recall that we always used to see in the patchnotes that we have the final line that says "various improvements that makes eve a better world for us to be in"
since csm6 and the goons/goon pets rise to power, there's not been much of this line appearing.
maybe the unsubbing of the goon + pets will bring this lovely line back and I'm looking forward to a better world that New Eden has to come.
Please continue your rant about unsubbing, more pics or it didn't happen. |
Joe D'Trader
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:13:00 -
[656] - Quote
Lt Pizi wrote:Joe D'Trader wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:
You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.
in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month
if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it or not
CCP is like putin
CCP is like Putin... so I shouldn't pay any attention to you then, ok. Have a nice day. Scroll up and see Jade's response. That is a semi well thought out response. another advice for you you will get badrepped from your buddies for praising jade ...
You know nothing about me. You see unlike you I try very hard to be independent and as unbiased as I possibly can. I don't give a damn if people dislike Jade, read what he actually wrote and understand you ignorant kunt. The CSM should be a democracy, it is CCP's game, and they are well within their rights to disband the CSM, but not only would it be bad PR it would just be downright bad business decision. And this is also a bad decision. The CSM either is an actual body that is independent or it is a useless rubber stamp and either next month or 6 years from now another Incarna will occur because CCP doesn't listen to advice from the one body of players elected to give them advice. |
Derrick Munroe
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
46
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:14:00 -
[657] - Quote
Chris LaPlant wrote:Ah Goon tears. They sustain me.
Ah... you know what sustains me? The smell of Tenal in the morning.
Knock knock. |
Flette
Rosen Association
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:14:00 -
[658] - Quote
Yeep wrote:Jade Constantine wrote: So given the CSM was formed partially as an oversight body to look at CCPs internal proceedures and ensure t20 didn't happen again and was supposed to include players of good character and trustworthy community-centric outlook - how do you propose that kind of body could get any real respect if it was not itself held to the standards expected of the rest of the community?
If I was one of the remaining CSM members I'd sure as **** be considering resigning right now. If CCP had any intention of taking their much lauded (in both the gaming and mainstream press) player council seriously they'd have either respected the consensus they reached or told them right from the start it was out of their hands. Instead the CSM are given the illusion of legitimacy then overruled mere hours later. That doesn't sound like the new CCP we were promised oh so recently, that sounds like the bad CCP of old who suffer from bad internal communication and schizophrenic public relations. And that doesn't bear well for the future of Eve.
What many of you fail to realize, is that to the rest of the world (including all legal entities) the CSM is an arm of CCP.
Without CCP, there is no CSM. When the CSM goes to iceland on CCP's dime, they are representing CCP.
So, when something like this happens, where the fallout can come from far outside the little halls of CCP or the even smaller virtual walls of the game, CCP has to act...especially when the CSM fails to do so. The CSM failing to oust the chairman on it's own is really a sad indicator of how useless and morally bankrupt the CSM is.
Again, the Mittani will be lucky if this is all that happens to him, and CCP will be lucky as well. |
Luciana BlitzKriger
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:16:00 -
[659] - Quote
CanGÇÖt we re-do the election again, move on from what has happen an start again without the incident that happen or is to late to do another Election process? |
Lt Pizi
Dark-Rising
31
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:18:00 -
[660] - Quote
Joe D'Trader wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:Joe D'Trader wrote:Lt Pizi wrote:
You are saying this isn't a democracy. It is very much a democracy and you knowing or not know WHY it was made should help you to understand why it is a democracy.
in an democracy you cannot buy the right to vote with just 15 bucks a month
if you know why it was formed , you would more see it as an guide to CCP, they may follow it or not
CCP is like putin
CCP is like Putin... so I shouldn't pay any attention to you then, ok. Have a nice day. Scroll up and see Jade's response. That is a semi well thought out response. another advice for you you will get badrepped from your buddies for praising jade ... You know nothing about me. You see unlike you I try very hard to be independent and as unbiased as I possibly can. I don't give a damn if people dislike Jade, read what he actually wrote and understand you ignorant kunt. The CSM should be a democracy, it is CCP's game, and they are well within their rights to disband the CSM, but not only would it be bad PR it would just be downright bad business decision. And this is also a bad decision. The CSM either is an actual body that is independent or it is a useless rubber stamp and either next month or 6 years from now another Incarna will occur because CCP doesn't listen to advice from the one body of players elected to give them advice.
the CSM never was and never will be the final ruling power in eve thats not how you run a company or an MMO i told you allready , in an democracy you cannot buy unlimit voting slots as long as you have the bucks for it and my dear unbaised friend dont curse at me , thx CSM are expected to adhere to the EULA/TOS and carry themselves in a manner that sets an example for other players to follow. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/What_is_the_CSM |
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