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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
90
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 23:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
I wonder what the problem is here.
Mittens did a really stupid thing. He apoligized and is taking the punishment gracefully.
Why would he be entitled to immunity to such matters because he's CSM chairman? He should be even MORE responsible because of his position, not less, which is exactly the case right now.
The EVE community was always harsh, but joking about RL suicides? Whether true or false this is extremely bad form, especially if brought up at a public panel. I know empathy is not a skill many EVE players possess, but even then it's reprehensible to goad anyone into a suicide. I wonder whether people realize that this very action is actually punishable by law in some countries, though it shouldnt have to be to point out how wrong it is. I don't understand why everyone is rushing to defend the action, regardless of who perpetrated it. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:What, is Sony running Fanfest now?
Word of advice: Fanfest owned, drinking, debauchery, wormhole-penetrating phalluses and all. Don't go all limp-ducked and Blizzardish on us, bros.
Yes. CCP is kow-towing to someone else. They just sold out their biggest asset. The magical time that is Fanfest and the drunken party at the top of the world. (no one would come to that horrible country otherwise).
Sony is going to kill another game I loved. |
Shandir
Ferocious Felines
80
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find) |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Shandir wrote:A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find)
That isn't the big issue. The issue is, why is CCP changing Fanfest over a single incident in years of Fanfests. They are kneejerking as usual and dancing to the tune of a Sony. You do realize what Sony is going to do to EVE right? |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
92
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Drake Jeffers wrote:I honestly believe that the player that was hurt by this incident involving Mittani shouldn't change the rules of this game. I believe that calling him out in public on the alliance forum was wrong but trust me that the expression "go kill yourself" was in no means a serious statement and in no manner would hope someone would commit suicide over a game.
Mittani only meant that because of the trouble that the people that killed him may give him the victim may be very angry.
Killing himself would be an option but I sincerely hope that EVE is not that Important to him. So just keep in mind as we move forward that you built a game that advocates espionage and if you want to take out griefing other players you may want to look into removing the espionage deal as well.
Just a note, just because someone 'didn't mean it seriously' doesn't mean the victim knows or realizes that, or takes it that way.
"I didn't really mean it" comes up in courts WAY more often than you would think. Regardless of the intent, the result is what matters and sadly, people like to think that nothing they do has consequences because they don't want to feel any guilt or responsibility.
Anything you say in cases like this has to be thought out carefully. Just because you 'don't mean it' doesn't mean the victim knows that. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
92
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Shandir wrote:A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find) That isn't the big issue. The issue is, why is CCP changing Fanfest over a single incident in years of Fanfests. They are kneejerking as usual and dancing to the tune of a Sony. You do realize what Sony is going to do to EVE right?
Let me guess, wearing a tin foil hat?
You do realize that if Mittens didn't say those few sentences in a live broadcast none of this would have happened? |
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
I recall "The Mittani" himself said in the everadio interview prior to the CSM7 election that players threatening to unsub is a display of weakness and withdrawals. I don't know, but his fellow alliance + friends are doing exactly what he said he'd not do. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:13:00 -
[38] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Aryth wrote:Shandir wrote:A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find) That isn't the big issue. The issue is, why is CCP changing Fanfest over a single incident in years of Fanfests. They are kneejerking as usual and dancing to the tune of a Sony. You do realize what Sony is going to do to EVE right? Let me guess, wearing a tin foil hat? You do realize that if Mittens didn't say those few sentences in a live broadcast none of this would have happened?
He apologized, fell on his sword, and resigned.
Note, this is all after a presentation where NO ONE in attendance, including all of CCP said a word. CCP obviously didn't consider this worthy of any attention until someone batphoned them. |
domino 8
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
Can I just ask who in CCP okayed the presentation which used a private message from a guy talking about his divorce and feeling suicidal as comedic material?
However unfortunate the mittani's comments where (and lets face it they were) CCP obviously allowed the topic to get past their own internal censor. CCP did this undoubtedly knowing it was going to be used to ridicule that player.
It would be very interesting to know why they thought showing a player talking about suicide was something that could be used as a comedy prop.
You really don't seem to be taking responsibly for it at all, if you had veto'd the slide it wouldn't have even come up on the panel.
Perma-ban mittani I don't really care, but your position seems to me remarkably disingenuous given that it was CCP that allowed the material on the panel, allowed the panellists to be drunk (it seems you actually encouraged it) and choose to have a live global broadcast with no time delay - or at least didn't seem to have a competent producer to knew to filter it. If you were a broadcaster it would be you as the producer not the broadcaster that would be held to account.
You really seem to have given someone the sh*t end of the stick and now appear to be admonishing them for have dirty hands.
Punish him, whatever, but at least acknowledge that it was CCPs fault the topic was even on the agenda in the first place.
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Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
As always PR events like this tend to take problems and themselves over seriously. Internet corps which seldom interact with the public face to face even more so. Then there the bandwagon activist types searching for vicarious personal power by suggesting things need to raised to a higher level yet.
However...
CCP may have a suicide "hotline" program for players internally but it certainly is not well advertised for players to report someone. And its 99% players who first recognize possible issue via directly interacting with those players with problems.
*** If CCP is serious about getting involved with players who may have issues that EVE is making worse --- then they need to add a chat link similar to "Report ISK spammers". Probably need to let players input 1-10 as to degree of suicide or rage-aholic behavior. (1- more depressed than seems good for a person, 2- nobody would miss me, 3 - I have thought suicide over as a solution, 5 - seriously considering it, 7 - I have set a date, 9 - later today 10 - doing it now) ***
Thus players could call for CCP hotline people to monitor a person's convo for a while. Probably send chat to log for efficiency and track multiple reports over time. Then CCP could take appropriate steps if needed: like referencing to incident to closest local community suicide prevention. Obviously clear abuse of the flagging system would be like frivolous use of ISK spamming flag.
Sure if its an online friend or corpmate, players will spend some time themselves trying to prop things up. But most of us aren't therapists. And I for one certainly don't log to hold the hands of total strangers. Plus I have seen people use "suicide talk" as another particularly distracting scam mechanism in EVE (no big surprise there).
So CCP if you really want to step up -- do so in a more substantial way than just making your PR events squeaky PC clean. LOL - there would probably be a good news story that might even cross outside the dedicated gaming community in doing so. |
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
93
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Reiisha wrote:Aryth wrote:Shandir wrote:A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find) That isn't the big issue. The issue is, why is CCP changing Fanfest over a single incident in years of Fanfests. They are kneejerking as usual and dancing to the tune of a Sony. You do realize what Sony is going to do to EVE right? Let me guess, wearing a tin foil hat? You do realize that if Mittens didn't say those few sentences in a live broadcast none of this would have happened? He apologized, fell on his sword, and resigned. Note, this is all after a presentation where NO ONE in attendance, including all of CCP said a word. CCP obviously didn't consider this worthy of any attention until someone batphoned them.
The people at CCP present there are getting an earful of this aswell at the moment, be sure of that.
Don't forget that they're humans aswell. Maybe they shared a similar opinion to yours at the moment and are being pointed to the facts about it right now. Just because you're in a corporation doens't mean you can't make mistakes, whatever you do. This kind of thing has never happened before and i'm sure the guys present at the presentation were not sure what to do about it at the time, it's only natural that this, as a learning experience, has not been handled properly initially.
Mittens is free to run for CSM again next time as far as i know. At that point everyone has learned from this and is ready to continue on with their lives. Continuing to rub salt in the wound might be the Goonswarm way but right now it's not helping anyone, least of all yourself. |
Saracha
13
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
The great thing about this is how CCP knew that this was going to be in the Alliance panel. I would be willing to bet whoever reviewed the material even had themselves a chuckle at it. CCCP should be very clear on this, there is nothing here that broke the EULA at all, but it is generating bad press. Tha'ts why Mittens is getting banned and the Chair revoked. CCP knew or had a very god idea what was going to happen, and let it slide. Then it backfired. Chairman for life Mittani is getting banned because CCP is getting bad press, pure and simple. |
Sturmwolke
151
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Right step forward. Professionalism and common courtesy should be observed at all times in public forums. In bygone days, there were clear boundaries between appropiate and in-appropiate public behaviours - which I don't think many parents nowadays pass to their children.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Aryth wrote:Reiisha wrote:Aryth wrote:Shandir wrote:A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find) That isn't the big issue. The issue is, why is CCP changing Fanfest over a single incident in years of Fanfests. They are kneejerking as usual and dancing to the tune of a Sony. You do realize what Sony is going to do to EVE right? Let me guess, wearing a tin foil hat? You do realize that if Mittens didn't say those few sentences in a live broadcast none of this would have happened? He apologized, fell on his sword, and resigned. Note, this is all after a presentation where NO ONE in attendance, including all of CCP said a word. CCP obviously didn't consider this worthy of any attention until someone batphoned them. The people at CCP present there are getting an earful of this aswell at the moment, be sure of that. Don't forget that they're humans aswell. Maybe they shared a similar opinion to yours at the moment and are being pointed to the facts about it right now. Just because you're in a corporation doens't mean you can't make mistakes, whatever you do. This kind of thing has never happened before and i'm sure the guys present at the presentation were not sure what to do about it at the time, it's only natural that this, as a learning experience, has not been handled properly initially. Mittens is free to run for CSM again next time as far as i know. At that point everyone has learned from this and is ready to continue on with their lives. Continuing to rub salt in the wound might be the Goonswarm way but right now it's not helping anyone, least of all yourself.
No, the salt comes in 30 days |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
151
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
This isn't about Mittani, this is about CCP "growing up" and sanitizing fanfest and the game, which would be utterly terrible for the game and for the community. |
stoicfaux
868
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
+1, rounding up. We all have to sober up eventually.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Vincent VanDamme
Shadowfire Enterprises Rura-Penthe
19
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aryth wrote: No, the salt comes in 30 days
Now..THATS what im talking about.
I'm getting my cap stable covert ops just so i can sit and watch in Jita.
It will be.. glorious! |
DelightSucker
Perkone Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Zhentar wrote:Burn Everything. This is a terrible decision and had been resolved by the offender.
Unless Mittani can go back in time and make us all forget that's not the case,
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Nair Alderau
EVE University Ivy League
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
I wouldn't have gone so far as removing him from the CSM after he resigned as chairman.
Ah well, its done now. Make sure you talk with the other CSM members to smooth over the hard feelings as good as it still can be done. |
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Zhentar wrote:Burn Everything. This is a terrible decision and had been resolved by the offender.
By a long shot, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
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DaiTengu
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:49:00 -
[51] - Quote
Good Job, raging pubbies. This is why we can't have nice things. |
Bhaal Chinnian
Hedion University Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Anela Cistine wrote:CCP, will you also be censuring the moderator who allowed the supposedly EULA breaking activity to pass without comment? How about the employees who broadcast and rebroadcast the pannel without bleeping out the offending bits? This
"CCP in no way condones the harassment of players"--dev blog explanation of the event
BULL ******* ****! YOU ******* HYPOCRITES CCP!
Also, did you even bother to contact or find out who this person was that Mittani was referring to? I seriously DOUBT IT, because you are too busy trying to cover your ass under the pretext of morality. Don't pretend like you ******* care about this anonymous subscriber. How many other weak people have been harassed so much in this game that they offed themselves? You DON'T KNOW because you never gave a **** until a well known player said some remark at your stupid little spaceship sausagefest and some gimp in your employ forgot to show up at his CCP censoring class thus failing at his/her job.
p.s. I give <= 2 ***** about Mittani or the goons.
'A Good Plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed next week'-- George Patton |
MIkhail Illiad
Fevered Imaginings DSM FOUNDATION
12
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:53:00 -
[53] - Quote
Li Malak wrote:Your so-called 'Director for Marketing' should resign now, because CCP has ****** itself by banning The Mittani from CSM 7. You have disenfranchised over 10,000 accounts.
Poor goon.... want a tissue for your tears? On a one man mission against asshatery!-á |
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
DaiTengu wrote:Good Job, raging pubbies. This is why we can't have nice things.
maybe the other way round, what happened prior to the decision was the reason why we didn't have nice things |
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:58:00 -
[55] - Quote
Yup PR-wise live broadcast makes a huge difference over small room.
No - when mistakes are made in front of an audience the sponsors very seldom jump up immediately to call more attention to it.
#1 they usually want to decide on official punishments before making an official response. #2 responses made on the fly quite often make things worse - especially if a nervous on the spot authority garbles things such that it sounds like he agreeded with the faux paus.
In the future CCP will obviously add in a delay to live broadcasts. I suspect 1-2 minutes as CCP is not professional in business of censoring. They may even add a pause button to be able to call for a higher ruling.
LOL - CCP may force speakers to physically choose between 3 buttons before answering any question (a) no comment (b) inappropriate to respond in this forum (c) question accepted. The audience would see the light and be required move to another question if not accepted. Enforcing the old stop and think.
I suspect that questions to speakers might also need to be submitted via chat for CCP moderater approval. Then when you get a green light at your chair you read out your question -- White House press conference style. Because apparently the challenging nature of the questions in some way directed the non-PC response in this case. This is not the first time a speaker has responded inappropriately to a question that in retrospect they should have ignored. Those who are not regular public speakers often feel they need to respond to every question -- rather than dodging with "no comment" or "it would be inappropriate for me to respond in this forum".
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Jim Luc
Rule of Five
18
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Posted - 2012.03.29 01:02:00 -
[56] - Quote
It's a sad day when a drunken offhand comment under someone's breath can be taken as "harassment". Should we now take upon ourselves the responsibility for everyone who cries "suicide"? This whole "anti-bullying" thing sets a very bad precedent. And I don't even condone Mittani's actions! He was obviously wasted, and acted the fool, however the reaction to this is really troublesome, that this molehill will turn into such a mountain...
"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. Unless they're from Mittani." |
Shandir
Ferocious Felines
81
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:06:00 -
[57] - Quote
Let's not get confused. The Mittani wasn't asked for the players name, or even directed to answer the question. It wasn't a question The commenter during the Q&A said, "By the way, that guy has joined (some group) and then got kicked out of there too. There was no need for further comment, and there certainly wasn't a good reason to respond with the character's name and the CTA that Mittens gave. |
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
Sanatize EVE?
OMG no.
But CCP wants to makes sure what happens on EVE -- stays in EVE.
Think --> #1 Possible viral video with game owners trademark stamp calling for efforts to make someone kill themselves RL? #2 And no punishment or official condemnation from game owners?
PR nightmare in world outside EVE. Sounds like typical national news fare to me.
Younger players have parents who are unaware of convos.
Some PC business and organizations have been known to pry into the private gaming life of employees and fire them for playing morally reprehensible games. It happened to D&D in the mid-80s.
Hell I am sure Obama and English PM would make calls protesting this corruption of morality and threatening trade embargoes or revoking business licenses -- or some such inconvenient garbage. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
39
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Posted - 2012.03.29 01:17:00 -
[59] - Quote
This game is changing and will continue to change, the days of Fanfest being a bunch of drunks hamming it up was over the minute that CCP partnered with Sony and entered the mega corp world of entertainment.
It is sad to see so much Goonie whining here the last couple days. I thought tough guys and bad guys were made of stiffer stuff. Start a corp and do it yourself. You'll fail, but you'll enjoy failing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Wakai Misago
Taapon Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:21:00 -
[60] - Quote
In other news the upcoming INFERNO patch will now be renamed FIRESIDE. All fleet battles will be replaced by hearty discourse, where noone ever says anything mean........ |
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