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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
1079
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Fanfest 2012 was a phenomenal success with player participation at an all-time high and a greater focus than ever on EVE Online. Unfortunately we had an incident at the Alliance Panel which has resulted in us setting out new rules and policies for future Fanfests. CCP Navigator and CCP Darth Beta explain how EVE is growing up in this dev blog. CCP Navigator -Community Manager |
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Zhentar
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Burn Everything. This is a terrible decision and had been resolved by the offender. |
RogueAnt
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hmm. |
ShadowMaster
34
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thanks for the update CCP. For the most part I always enjoy the alliance panel and get a good laugh. I left before the end of it this time though so missed this. I really hope you don't eliminate it completely, to much fun to be had at it. |
Oliver Duncan
Kick B0rt Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:Yet out of control drunkenness and calls for harassment have no places in such a culture.
This is the entirety of Eve culture. |
Nao Oikawasan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode |
Nao Oikawasan
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
My vote, as well as those of 17% of those who bothered to participate, were simply tossed in the trash?
I'm not sure that even the American Democratic machine in Chicago has ever been responsible for nullifying that large a voting block.
I would like to apply my vote to another character. I'm suspect others may as well. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
558
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Navigator wrote:Fanfest 2012 was a phenomenal success with player participation at an all-time high and a greater focus than ever on EVE Online. Unfortunately we had an incident at the Alliance Panel which has resulted in us setting out new rules and policies for future Fanfests. CCP Navigator and CCP Darth Beta explain how EVE is growing up in this dev blog.
You'd have 10,000 Dislikes right about now if you had the option to do so.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Oliver Duncan
Kick B0rt Test Alliance Please Ignore
4
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCCP is living up to it's name. |
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
205
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:06:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ding, dong, the witch is dead...
HAH! Good on you CCP! |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
640
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
+1 a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Revii Lagoon
The Foreign Legion Test Alliance Please Ignore
35
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
You just threw yourself into a massive **** storm, be prepared. Jita Riots were nothing, Jita WILL burn this time. You also just **** all over the CSM and everything that they worked so hard to build up, gg CCP. |
Raneru
Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard
39
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
I actually forgot to get my vote in for CSM 7, which as it turns out wan't really a bad thing as it was pretty much a waste of time. |
Li Malak
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
23
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Your so-called 'Director for Marketing' should resign now, because CCP has ****** itself by banning The Mittani from CSM 7. You have disenfranchised over 10,000 accounts. |
Utamary
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Goon Tears are priceless |
Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
174
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Interesting maths at work here.
If running a BOT first offence is a minor penalty (2 week temp ban) then harassment is a double-minor penalty (30 day temp ban).
So what's the equivalent of 5 minutes for fighting? Please support: export of settings in editable format
Your stuff goes here. |
Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
488
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rules for removed candidates please.
I want to put my vote elsewhere thanks.
EDIT: Welcome to the slippery slope of the death of a sandbox. Grats CCP on listening to your advertisers/overlords.
It's not Rocket Surgery |
Vincent VanDamme
Shadowfire Enterprises Rura-Penthe
17
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:32:00 -
[18] - Quote
Li Malak wrote:Your so-called 'Director for Marketing' should resign now, because CCP has ****** itself by banning The Mittani from CSM 7. You have disenfranchised over 10,000 accounts.
That isn't how elections work, is it?
I understand disagreeing with the decisions, who wouldn't. But I have to say that the sense of entitlement coming for this is quoite staggering.
The votes he got were amazing. a real strong showing of support for the work he did on CSM 6. And he did some awesome work with a lot of good people on the CSM.
Those votes don't mean that he is immune to rules, does it? It doesn't mean that the TOS no longer applies. Popular votes don't give carte blanche. does it? Be reasonable here. This is a pretty unique situation, and what occurred was a mistake all told.
That being said: I hope your CEO comes back with renewed vigor, and doesn't take this to heart. I find it very sad the amount of hate thrown around, and i could see him being brought down by what has been pretty harsh character assassination in the gaming press. That i don't think is cool. Heck, i hope i am never called up on things ive said when ive been pissed. Id probably get sacked, or worse. And that's just me. We all make mistakes, and we take them on the chin, and move on. I hope he will. So as i have not paid :tenbux: if you can send him my best at least, i would appreciate it.
Be that as it may, i was looking froward to the GSF Jita interdiction. It'll be interesting to see the effects of decentralising the markets. So good luck with that.
Take care,
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Allow me to translate this....
A GÇ£frat houseGÇ¥ type presentation style may have been well-matched for a younger EVE Online, when there was a smaller community roaming the stars.
CCP: Now that we have to bow to pressure of companies larger than ourselves, we are going to start removing the magic that makes Fanfest great.
Just wondering CCP, what was the magic number you decided to sell out at? |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
70
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:44:00 -
[20] - Quote
This will not end well. |
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Sustaine
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
I like Mittani but he deserves it. You voted for him, he sank your vote. Blame him.
No he didn't mention a RL name when he called on everyone to grief a guy to push him to suicide, but he was clearly reaching through the game to affect a player in RL (kidding or not). Same result.
Yes botting is bad but this was worse. Botters cheat but really only affect the game, not RL (unless you make money off it - and CCP comes down hard on people who make RL money on botting.) Mittani (fed by the Goon reputation, and the "we're going to break your game" motto of that corp) stepped into it.
This kind of error marks a game for years. Especially among other non-eve gamers - the ones who might have sometime want to play the game. It's a a PR blunder right when EVE needs to open up to more players.
Good Fanfest btw. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
150
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
What, is Sony running Fanfest now?
Word of advice: Fanfest owned, drinking, debauchery, wormhole-penetrating phalluses and all. Don't go all limp-ducked and Blizzardish on us, bros. |
Ines Fy
Heroes of the Past Goonswarm Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
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Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
154
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP, will you also be censuring the moderator who allowed the supposedly EULA breaking activity to pass without comment? How about the employees who broadcast and rebroadcast the pannel without bleeping out the offending bits? |
Yasuhiro Shoe
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
3
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Nope. You can't enforce maturity. That's not your job and it's arrogant of you to tell people otherwise. This seems actually a case of taking away from Eve a large part of its unique appeal. CCP really can't get along with Eve players after all. Oh well.
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Saint Lazarus
Spiorad ag fanaiocht
205
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nicely written blog, all this Mittani BS aside (plz? pretty plz?) I hope everyone realizes it was an ISOLATED incident, yea theres alot of "frat house" behaviour, but so far we've all kept ourselves in check. Alot of drunkenness but alot of fun too, sharing a beer with a dev and them sharing jokes with us means the WORLD to the players!
If CCP have to tone Fanfest down after all this utter BS I'll be devestated. Its what makes CCP so awesome!!! |
Zastrow
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Fanfest is a singularly unique event in all of gaming. It's the only event where players and devs can get together and be informal and tell jokes and really party together and have a ******* blast. Fanfest is great because of this party culture. If you try to "grow up" and make it another big lame marketing event, the magic will be gone.
Perhaps certain things shouldn't be live streamed. Ok that's definitely obvious. But don't ruin fanfest because of one mistake. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
150
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Zastrow wrote:Fanfest is a singularly unique event in all of gaming. It's the only event where players and devs can get together and be informal and tell jokes and really party together and have a ******* blast. Fanfest is great because of this party culture. If you try to "grow up" and make it another big lame marketing event, the magic will be gone.
Perhaps certain things shouldn't be live streamed. Ok that's definitely obvious. But don't ruin fanfest because of one mistake.
Hi5, spacebro. |
Drake Jeffers
Paxton Industries Gentlemen's Agreement
0
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
I honestly believe that the player that was hurt by this incident involving Mittani shouldn't change the rules of this game. I believe that calling him out in public on the alliance forum was wrong but trust me that the expression "go kill yourself" was in no means a serious statement and in no manner would hope someone would commit suicide over a game.
Mittani only meant that because of the trouble that the people that killed him may give him the victim may be very angry.
Killing himself would be an option but I sincerely hope that EVE is not that Important to him. So just keep in mind as we move forward that you built a game that advocates espionage and if you want to take out griefing other players you may want to look into removing the espionage deal as well.
Considering the thefts that have been done a single mining vessel or two is nothing. And you let that go on all the time.
Also I would like to say that as we go forward if you want people to not get trolled in this way then all you have to do is limit in-game pictures to HUD-less screen-shots and the like. Because in that way you're preventing anyone on the alliance panel from relaying information they got via spying to the whole community during their alliance panel.
Please take what I have said into account 2600 games of league of legends has made me very good at distinguishing a personal attack and just simple griefing and Mittani didn't mean harm he just incidentally caused it. And the idea of griefing should not be condemned because of that. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1101
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:54:00 -
[30] - Quote
Li Malak wrote:Your so-called 'Director for Marketing' should resign now, because CCP has ****** itself by banning The Mittani from CSM 7. You have disenfranchised over 10,000 accounts.
The Mittani made a mistake in resorting to Something Awful/Goonswarm subscriber-only style humour in a public forum. In your own cultural surrounds, his call to drive a player to suicide would be interpreted as the "up talking" it probably was: you'd have a chuckle, enjoy the schadenfreude of someone possibly committing suicide over words in an Internet spaceship game, and forget about the incident (possibly after moving to the system to entertain the fantasy of ganking the guy, then not following through because even Goons have some lines they won't cross). In the public environment, merely uttering the suggestion to harass someone who claims to be suicidal is crossing one of those lines that shouldn't have been crossed.
To be clear here: it does not matter one iota whether or not the target is actually suicidal or not. He might claim to be fine with the attention in public, while in private he's resenting it. He might have made the claim about how his life was a mess and was contemplating suicide simply to get a rise out of the gankers. You just don't know. This is why in the real world we take any hint of suicidal (or homicidal) tendencies seriously and offer help: we certainly don't make a joke about encouraging people to harass the target further, especially not in a forum attended by 3000 people who aren't present at the venue to be aware of the general atmosphere of the gathering. Some of us watching the feed would have just turned on the feed to watch the Alliance Panel during our lunch break at work, and be totally unaware of the general atmosphere of FanFest 2012 at that point in time.
On CCP's side of things, the usual way to handle unscripted "live" events is to delay the broadcast by about 7-8 seconds to allow the production crew time to hit the "OH ****" button. On a radio station, this might be a simple "BEEEP" to obscure the words being uttered, terminating the phone call, or playing the station's jingle. For FanFest this could be a few frames of "Trollface" or the serious-face Amarr guy from the promotional brochure with the words "CCP Advises that this live content is not suitable for broadcast".
There are still null sec candidates and candidates sympathetic to Goonswarm (or at least to The Mittani) on CSM 7. You will not be "unrepresented", it's just that your favoured representative has disqualified himself from representing you. Goonswarm opinions will still shape the future of EVE Online and DUST 514. Vote for two candidates in the future, so you have backup when one self-destructs.
TL;DR: Your beef should be with Alex for trying to engage in a **** measuring contest in a live broadcast forum, not with CCP for taking the only action they can take for such a public violation of their TOS.
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
90
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Posted - 2012.03.28 23:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
I wonder what the problem is here.
Mittens did a really stupid thing. He apoligized and is taking the punishment gracefully.
Why would he be entitled to immunity to such matters because he's CSM chairman? He should be even MORE responsible because of his position, not less, which is exactly the case right now.
The EVE community was always harsh, but joking about RL suicides? Whether true or false this is extremely bad form, especially if brought up at a public panel. I know empathy is not a skill many EVE players possess, but even then it's reprehensible to goad anyone into a suicide. I wonder whether people realize that this very action is actually punishable by law in some countries, though it shouldnt have to be to point out how wrong it is. I don't understand why everyone is rushing to defend the action, regardless of who perpetrated it. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:What, is Sony running Fanfest now?
Word of advice: Fanfest owned, drinking, debauchery, wormhole-penetrating phalluses and all. Don't go all limp-ducked and Blizzardish on us, bros.
Yes. CCP is kow-towing to someone else. They just sold out their biggest asset. The magical time that is Fanfest and the drunken party at the top of the world. (no one would come to that horrible country otherwise).
Sony is going to kill another game I loved. |
Shandir
Ferocious Felines
80
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:03:00 -
[33] - Quote
A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find) |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:06:00 -
[34] - Quote
Shandir wrote:A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find)
That isn't the big issue. The issue is, why is CCP changing Fanfest over a single incident in years of Fanfests. They are kneejerking as usual and dancing to the tune of a Sony. You do realize what Sony is going to do to EVE right? |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
92
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Drake Jeffers wrote:I honestly believe that the player that was hurt by this incident involving Mittani shouldn't change the rules of this game. I believe that calling him out in public on the alliance forum was wrong but trust me that the expression "go kill yourself" was in no means a serious statement and in no manner would hope someone would commit suicide over a game.
Mittani only meant that because of the trouble that the people that killed him may give him the victim may be very angry.
Killing himself would be an option but I sincerely hope that EVE is not that Important to him. So just keep in mind as we move forward that you built a game that advocates espionage and if you want to take out griefing other players you may want to look into removing the espionage deal as well.
Just a note, just because someone 'didn't mean it seriously' doesn't mean the victim knows or realizes that, or takes it that way.
"I didn't really mean it" comes up in courts WAY more often than you would think. Regardless of the intent, the result is what matters and sadly, people like to think that nothing they do has consequences because they don't want to feel any guilt or responsibility.
Anything you say in cases like this has to be thought out carefully. Just because you 'don't mean it' doesn't mean the victim knows that. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
92
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:09:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Shandir wrote:A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find) That isn't the big issue. The issue is, why is CCP changing Fanfest over a single incident in years of Fanfests. They are kneejerking as usual and dancing to the tune of a Sony. You do realize what Sony is going to do to EVE right?
Let me guess, wearing a tin foil hat?
You do realize that if Mittens didn't say those few sentences in a live broadcast none of this would have happened? |
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
I recall "The Mittani" himself said in the everadio interview prior to the CSM7 election that players threatening to unsub is a display of weakness and withdrawals. I don't know, but his fellow alliance + friends are doing exactly what he said he'd not do. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:13:00 -
[38] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Aryth wrote:Shandir wrote:A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find) That isn't the big issue. The issue is, why is CCP changing Fanfest over a single incident in years of Fanfests. They are kneejerking as usual and dancing to the tune of a Sony. You do realize what Sony is going to do to EVE right? Let me guess, wearing a tin foil hat? You do realize that if Mittens didn't say those few sentences in a live broadcast none of this would have happened?
He apologized, fell on his sword, and resigned.
Note, this is all after a presentation where NO ONE in attendance, including all of CCP said a word. CCP obviously didn't consider this worthy of any attention until someone batphoned them. |
domino 8
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:15:00 -
[39] - Quote
Can I just ask who in CCP okayed the presentation which used a private message from a guy talking about his divorce and feeling suicidal as comedic material?
However unfortunate the mittani's comments where (and lets face it they were) CCP obviously allowed the topic to get past their own internal censor. CCP did this undoubtedly knowing it was going to be used to ridicule that player.
It would be very interesting to know why they thought showing a player talking about suicide was something that could be used as a comedy prop.
You really don't seem to be taking responsibly for it at all, if you had veto'd the slide it wouldn't have even come up on the panel.
Perma-ban mittani I don't really care, but your position seems to me remarkably disingenuous given that it was CCP that allowed the material on the panel, allowed the panellists to be drunk (it seems you actually encouraged it) and choose to have a live global broadcast with no time delay - or at least didn't seem to have a competent producer to knew to filter it. If you were a broadcaster it would be you as the producer not the broadcaster that would be held to account.
You really seem to have given someone the sh*t end of the stick and now appear to be admonishing them for have dirty hands.
Punish him, whatever, but at least acknowledge that it was CCPs fault the topic was even on the agenda in the first place.
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Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
As always PR events like this tend to take problems and themselves over seriously. Internet corps which seldom interact with the public face to face even more so. Then there the bandwagon activist types searching for vicarious personal power by suggesting things need to raised to a higher level yet.
However...
CCP may have a suicide "hotline" program for players internally but it certainly is not well advertised for players to report someone. And its 99% players who first recognize possible issue via directly interacting with those players with problems.
*** If CCP is serious about getting involved with players who may have issues that EVE is making worse --- then they need to add a chat link similar to "Report ISK spammers". Probably need to let players input 1-10 as to degree of suicide or rage-aholic behavior. (1- more depressed than seems good for a person, 2- nobody would miss me, 3 - I have thought suicide over as a solution, 5 - seriously considering it, 7 - I have set a date, 9 - later today 10 - doing it now) ***
Thus players could call for CCP hotline people to monitor a person's convo for a while. Probably send chat to log for efficiency and track multiple reports over time. Then CCP could take appropriate steps if needed: like referencing to incident to closest local community suicide prevention. Obviously clear abuse of the flagging system would be like frivolous use of ISK spamming flag.
Sure if its an online friend or corpmate, players will spend some time themselves trying to prop things up. But most of us aren't therapists. And I for one certainly don't log to hold the hands of total strangers. Plus I have seen people use "suicide talk" as another particularly distracting scam mechanism in EVE (no big surprise there).
So CCP if you really want to step up -- do so in a more substantial way than just making your PR events squeaky PC clean. LOL - there would probably be a good news story that might even cross outside the dedicated gaming community in doing so. |
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
93
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Reiisha wrote:Aryth wrote:Shandir wrote:A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find) That isn't the big issue. The issue is, why is CCP changing Fanfest over a single incident in years of Fanfests. They are kneejerking as usual and dancing to the tune of a Sony. You do realize what Sony is going to do to EVE right? Let me guess, wearing a tin foil hat? You do realize that if Mittens didn't say those few sentences in a live broadcast none of this would have happened? He apologized, fell on his sword, and resigned. Note, this is all after a presentation where NO ONE in attendance, including all of CCP said a word. CCP obviously didn't consider this worthy of any attention until someone batphoned them.
The people at CCP present there are getting an earful of this aswell at the moment, be sure of that.
Don't forget that they're humans aswell. Maybe they shared a similar opinion to yours at the moment and are being pointed to the facts about it right now. Just because you're in a corporation doens't mean you can't make mistakes, whatever you do. This kind of thing has never happened before and i'm sure the guys present at the presentation were not sure what to do about it at the time, it's only natural that this, as a learning experience, has not been handled properly initially.
Mittens is free to run for CSM again next time as far as i know. At that point everyone has learned from this and is ready to continue on with their lives. Continuing to rub salt in the wound might be the Goonswarm way but right now it's not helping anyone, least of all yourself. |
Saracha
13
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
The great thing about this is how CCP knew that this was going to be in the Alliance panel. I would be willing to bet whoever reviewed the material even had themselves a chuckle at it. CCCP should be very clear on this, there is nothing here that broke the EULA at all, but it is generating bad press. Tha'ts why Mittens is getting banned and the Chair revoked. CCP knew or had a very god idea what was going to happen, and let it slide. Then it backfired. Chairman for life Mittani is getting banned because CCP is getting bad press, pure and simple. |
Sturmwolke
151
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Right step forward. Professionalism and common courtesy should be observed at all times in public forums. In bygone days, there were clear boundaries between appropiate and in-appropiate public behaviours - which I don't think many parents nowadays pass to their children.
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2012.03.29 00:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Aryth wrote:Reiisha wrote:Aryth wrote:Shandir wrote:A 30 day ban and removal from the CSM, for a first offense of this nature is an acceptable response. You made the right decision in the face of open Goon threats (as is shown in this thread). EVE will grow as a result of this commitment to keeping the game's open nature *within the game* - taking it to RL isn't acceptable and I'm glad you agree.
10,000 people might be angry with you, but a significant portion of 290,000 people are happy.
(Just to check, he is removed from the CSM as per your CSM candidate rules, right? The dev blog does not actually say that that I could find) That isn't the big issue. The issue is, why is CCP changing Fanfest over a single incident in years of Fanfests. They are kneejerking as usual and dancing to the tune of a Sony. You do realize what Sony is going to do to EVE right? Let me guess, wearing a tin foil hat? You do realize that if Mittens didn't say those few sentences in a live broadcast none of this would have happened? He apologized, fell on his sword, and resigned. Note, this is all after a presentation where NO ONE in attendance, including all of CCP said a word. CCP obviously didn't consider this worthy of any attention until someone batphoned them. The people at CCP present there are getting an earful of this aswell at the moment, be sure of that. Don't forget that they're humans aswell. Maybe they shared a similar opinion to yours at the moment and are being pointed to the facts about it right now. Just because you're in a corporation doens't mean you can't make mistakes, whatever you do. This kind of thing has never happened before and i'm sure the guys present at the presentation were not sure what to do about it at the time, it's only natural that this, as a learning experience, has not been handled properly initially. Mittens is free to run for CSM again next time as far as i know. At that point everyone has learned from this and is ready to continue on with their lives. Continuing to rub salt in the wound might be the Goonswarm way but right now it's not helping anyone, least of all yourself.
No, the salt comes in 30 days |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
151
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:24:00 -
[45] - Quote
This isn't about Mittani, this is about CCP "growing up" and sanitizing fanfest and the game, which would be utterly terrible for the game and for the community. |
stoicfaux
868
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
+1, rounding up. We all have to sober up eventually.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
|
Vincent VanDamme
Shadowfire Enterprises Rura-Penthe
19
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:28:00 -
[47] - Quote
Aryth wrote: No, the salt comes in 30 days
Now..THATS what im talking about.
I'm getting my cap stable covert ops just so i can sit and watch in Jita.
It will be.. glorious! |
DelightSucker
Perkone Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
Zhentar wrote:Burn Everything. This is a terrible decision and had been resolved by the offender.
Unless Mittani can go back in time and make us all forget that's not the case,
|
Nair Alderau
EVE University Ivy League
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
I wouldn't have gone so far as removing him from the CSM after he resigned as chairman.
Ah well, its done now. Make sure you talk with the other CSM members to smooth over the hard feelings as good as it still can be done. |
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Zhentar wrote:Burn Everything. This is a terrible decision and had been resolved by the offender.
By a long shot, this is just the tip of the iceberg.
|
|
DaiTengu
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
107
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:49:00 -
[51] - Quote
Good Job, raging pubbies. This is why we can't have nice things. |
Bhaal Chinnian
Hedion University Amarr Empire
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:52:00 -
[52] - Quote
Anela Cistine wrote:CCP, will you also be censuring the moderator who allowed the supposedly EULA breaking activity to pass without comment? How about the employees who broadcast and rebroadcast the pannel without bleeping out the offending bits? This
"CCP in no way condones the harassment of players"--dev blog explanation of the event
BULL ******* ****! YOU ******* HYPOCRITES CCP!
Also, did you even bother to contact or find out who this person was that Mittani was referring to? I seriously DOUBT IT, because you are too busy trying to cover your ass under the pretext of morality. Don't pretend like you ******* care about this anonymous subscriber. How many other weak people have been harassed so much in this game that they offed themselves? You DON'T KNOW because you never gave a **** until a well known player said some remark at your stupid little spaceship sausagefest and some gimp in your employ forgot to show up at his CCP censoring class thus failing at his/her job.
p.s. I give <= 2 ***** about Mittani or the goons.
'A Good Plan executed today is better than a perfect plan executed next week'-- George Patton |
MIkhail Illiad
Fevered Imaginings DSM FOUNDATION
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:53:00 -
[53] - Quote
Li Malak wrote:Your so-called 'Director for Marketing' should resign now, because CCP has ****** itself by banning The Mittani from CSM 7. You have disenfranchised over 10,000 accounts.
Poor goon.... want a tissue for your tears? On a one man mission against asshatery!-á |
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:54:00 -
[54] - Quote
DaiTengu wrote:Good Job, raging pubbies. This is why we can't have nice things.
maybe the other way round, what happened prior to the decision was the reason why we didn't have nice things |
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:58:00 -
[55] - Quote
Yup PR-wise live broadcast makes a huge difference over small room.
No - when mistakes are made in front of an audience the sponsors very seldom jump up immediately to call more attention to it.
#1 they usually want to decide on official punishments before making an official response. #2 responses made on the fly quite often make things worse - especially if a nervous on the spot authority garbles things such that it sounds like he agreeded with the faux paus.
In the future CCP will obviously add in a delay to live broadcasts. I suspect 1-2 minutes as CCP is not professional in business of censoring. They may even add a pause button to be able to call for a higher ruling.
LOL - CCP may force speakers to physically choose between 3 buttons before answering any question (a) no comment (b) inappropriate to respond in this forum (c) question accepted. The audience would see the light and be required move to another question if not accepted. Enforcing the old stop and think.
I suspect that questions to speakers might also need to be submitted via chat for CCP moderater approval. Then when you get a green light at your chair you read out your question -- White House press conference style. Because apparently the challenging nature of the questions in some way directed the non-PC response in this case. This is not the first time a speaker has responded inappropriately to a question that in retrospect they should have ignored. Those who are not regular public speakers often feel they need to respond to every question -- rather than dodging with "no comment" or "it would be inappropriate for me to respond in this forum".
|
Jim Luc
Rule of Five
18
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:02:00 -
[56] - Quote
It's a sad day when a drunken offhand comment under someone's breath can be taken as "harassment". Should we now take upon ourselves the responsibility for everyone who cries "suicide"? This whole "anti-bullying" thing sets a very bad precedent. And I don't even condone Mittani's actions! He was obviously wasted, and acted the fool, however the reaction to this is really troublesome, that this molehill will turn into such a mountain...
"Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. Unless they're from Mittani." |
Shandir
Ferocious Felines
81
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:06:00 -
[57] - Quote
Let's not get confused. The Mittani wasn't asked for the players name, or even directed to answer the question. It wasn't a question The commenter during the Q&A said, "By the way, that guy has joined (some group) and then got kicked out of there too. There was no need for further comment, and there certainly wasn't a good reason to respond with the character's name and the CTA that Mittens gave. |
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
Sanatize EVE?
OMG no.
But CCP wants to makes sure what happens on EVE -- stays in EVE.
Think --> #1 Possible viral video with game owners trademark stamp calling for efforts to make someone kill themselves RL? #2 And no punishment or official condemnation from game owners?
PR nightmare in world outside EVE. Sounds like typical national news fare to me.
Younger players have parents who are unaware of convos.
Some PC business and organizations have been known to pry into the private gaming life of employees and fire them for playing morally reprehensible games. It happened to D&D in the mid-80s.
Hell I am sure Obama and English PM would make calls protesting this corruption of morality and threatening trade embargoes or revoking business licenses -- or some such inconvenient garbage. |
Chokichi Ozuwara
Lucky Dragon Convenience
39
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:17:00 -
[59] - Quote
This game is changing and will continue to change, the days of Fanfest being a bunch of drunks hamming it up was over the minute that CCP partnered with Sony and entered the mega corp world of entertainment.
It is sad to see so much Goonie whining here the last couple days. I thought tough guys and bad guys were made of stiffer stuff. Start a corp and do it yourself. You'll fail, but you'll enjoy failing. Tears will be shed and pants will need to be changed all round. |
Wakai Misago
Taapon Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:21:00 -
[60] - Quote
In other news the upcoming INFERNO patch will now be renamed FIRESIDE. All fleet battles will be replaced by hearty discourse, where noone ever says anything mean........ |
|
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:25:00 -
[61] - Quote
What no cries from the other side about religious tolerance?
Church of Darwin: Bullies exist to make sure the weak don't breed.
Always a few honest true believer types. Just don't make your love of EVE too obvious to the RL world.
I still want to play in the house CCP built. Please don't incite the mob to set it on fire. |
Courthouse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
219
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:39:00 -
[62] - Quote
Welcome to our new Sony overlords. May your stay be as long and successful as your run at Star Wars Galaxies was. |
Michiko Kat Sterling
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:42:00 -
[63] - Quote
Chokichi Ozuwara wrote:This game is changing and will continue to change, the days of Fanfest being a bunch of drunks hamming it up was over the minute that CCP partnered with Sony and entered the mega corp world of entertainment.
It is sad to see so much Goonie whining here the last couple days. I thought tough guys and bad guys were made of stiffer stuff.
I would hate to think the Goons consider carebears as the only people capable of tears, but apparently I was mistaken. I for one would love to see a goon fleet massed against a high sec fleet of everyone who doesnt like them. Let it be decided on the field of battle just like the old days.
The time is over for forum posts i guess, time to duke it out in low sec. |
Andrea Griffin
204
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:46:00 -
[64] - Quote
I expect many of the events at FanFest to be loud, funny, informal, and contain some adult language from time to time, but the behavior at the Alliance Panel this year was pretty distasteful overall. It's difficult to show Eve to my friends and entice them to play when some of the largest alliances in Eve take to the stage and spend the whole time acting like immature prats.
This was my opinion before the whole Mitanni Incident, but what happened there was the final straw for me. I'm very happy to hear that CCP will be keeping a closer eye on things to keep them going out of control.
I'm not looking for the awkward, utterly sterile corporate atmosphere either; there's a lot of room in between and, really, if people could just tone down the language somewhat that would be a big improvement. Just a nudge in the opposite direction. A little more class.
It's a shame that the whole event this year is going to be remembered for a few seconds of drunken audio. Hopefully next year will be better.
Also, my Quafe shirt is awesome. : > CCP Sreegs is my favorite developer. |
Crovan
The Praxis Initiative Gentlemen's Agreement
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:06:00 -
[65] - Quote
In the immortal words of half a dozen shirtless devs, HTFU. |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
84
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:28:00 -
[66] - Quote
Quote:CCP in no way condones the harassment of players
So what game am I playing?? Let me get my hulk and head back to hi-sec and test this one.... I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1105
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:43:00 -
[67] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Quote:CCP in no way condones the harassment of players So what game am I playing?? Let me get my hulk and head back to hi-sec and test this one....
EVE Online is a harsh, cruel world. The people populating EVE Online are referred to as "capsuleers", "characters" or (in still-can't-recite-the-alphabet circles) as "toons". (pardon me while I go have a hot shower to wash that taint off my soul)
It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges.
While not necessarily a crime in most jurisdictions, recommending a course of action in the virtual world with the intent of achieving some negative outcome in the real world is at the very least morally shady.
Clear as mud?
|
Bojan Z
Kernel of War Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:49:00 -
[68] - Quote
I'm glad I was at this year Fanfest. I'm not likely to be at the next one. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:49:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Navigator wrote: CCP in no way condones the harassment of players,
You have got to be kidding me. That line had to be a joke. CCP most certainly does condone this type of behavior. It is encouraged and lauded and bragged about and used as a point of advertisement. You push it all over the internet that Eve is the place where people are allowed to treat others as poorly as possible. The worse you treat others the better and the more press time you give it.
Further if anyone complains about the culture that CCP has purposefully and intentionally created of people mistreating others they are referred to the song written and preformed by Perma Band, and band consisting purely of CCP Devs and employees, in which they are told in no uncertain terms to " Harden The **** Up ".
You condone this behavior, You encourage it, You foster it, You cultivate it. I suspect the only reason you choose to deny it here and now is because someone in your legal department got a hold of you and told you that if this guy does kill himself you guys could be held liable for it. This dev blog is a disclaimer to try and disassociate CCP from any accountability for it's actions.
As far as the law is concerned this may server to insulate you from any financial punishment but in the world of action and consequence what happened on that Alliance panel is a direct result of the environment that you, CCP, have willfully and intentionally created, fostered and nurtured. You may be able to fool the law of the land but you can't fool the law of action and consequence.
|
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
86
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:06:00 -
[70] - Quote
This
Quote:It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges.
Don't blame CCP, blame The mittani, he is the one that forgot about the EULA! Shame on him, becouse he wasted all the votes of people that trusted in him!
Eve is serious business! But this is also a game! No one plays it to be greefed! And CCP should Really enforce this! People should have fun playing it! not being told to suicide! Also CCP should take what is said and reported in the forum more seriously!
Also I really hope that CCP fix other greefing mechanisms in game! Enough of AFK cloakers! |
|
Atrum Veneficus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
84
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:06:00 -
[71] - Quote
Here is the official Goonswarm Federation response to CCP "growing up" and throwing The Mittani under the bus.
http://i.imgur.com/J42oU.gif
Enjoy! |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:07:00 -
[72] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:
It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges.
While not necessarily a crime in most jurisdictions, recommending a course of action in the virtual world with the intent of achieving some negative outcome in the real world is at the very least morally shady.
Clear as mud?
This is far from the first time that mitani himself not to mention the goons as a whole or the player base in general have harassed someone with the stated intent of causing emotional harm to the real person behind the toon . The only difference that I see in this particular situation is that mittens was drunk enough to say it how it is. A sober person would have know not to actually say what mitani said but the intent and actions other than that have been replicated countless times in Eve and openly supported by CCP.
Mitani did not attack the guy in the real world. Mitani did not give out the guys real name nor any other personal information. Mitani did not ask anyone to harass the man in anyway in the real world. He gave out the guy's character name and told people to harass the character in game, with the hopes of causing the actual human behind the character emotional harm, grief and shame to name a couple. It's called griefing and it happens in eve all the time and is openly encouraged by CCP. The only difference here is that mitani openly stated if someone wanted to push the guy to kill himself then do so. Had Mitani instead invited people to grief this guy until he sank into a depression which lead to alcoholism or caused him to kick and abuse the neighbors' dog or something short of suicide we would not be reading an apology from Mitani or CCP. |
Skyreth
Revelation of Wrath
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:25:00 -
[73] - Quote
Goon tears best tears. If people can't tell what sort of behavior is acceptable, their loss.
If Mitt had not told people to go and abuse that person, and had not given out the name...he'd have gotten away rather unaffected. But telling people on a live feed to find this person and abuse them is way beyond EVEs usual "tough love" play style.
As for if this were a real government official; If a real government official had told people on television to contact someone and abuse them to make them kill themselves...Yeah, they'd get the boot. Or at least, they would in any country with a sense of self respect and decency.
This was also an action against the EULA on a far more public and open venue than in-game. A venue anyone with any intelligence would have figured would not be appropriate for such remarks. But then...he does represent Goonswarm...so yeah...
That being said, I'll stand by the guy that was targeted by Mitt. No one deserves that sort of thing. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
86
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:26:00 -
[74] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:
It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges.
While not necessarily a crime in most jurisdictions, recommending a course of action in the virtual world with the intent of achieving some negative outcome in the real world is at the very least morally shady.
Clear as mud?
This is far from the first time that mitani himself not to mention the goons as a whole or the player base in general have harassed someone with the stated intent of causing emotional harm to the real person behind the toon . The only difference that I see in this particular situation is that mittens was drunk enough to say it how it is. A sober person would have know not to actually say what mitani said but the intent and actions other than that have been replicated countless times in Eve and openly supported by CCP. Mitani did not attack the guy in the real world. Mitani did not give out the guys real name nor any other personal information. Mitani did not ask anyone to harass the man in anyway in the real world. He gave out the guy's character name and told people to harass the character in game, with the hopes of causing the actual human behind the character emotional harm, grief and shame to name a couple. It's called griefing and it happens in eve all the time and is openly encouraged by CCP. The only difference here is that mitani openly stated if someone wanted to push the guy to kill himself then do so. Had Mitani instead invited people to grief this guy until he sank into a depression which lead to alcoholism or caused him to kick and abuse the neighbors' dog or something short of suicide we would not be reading an apology from Mitani or CCP.
And do you realy think that if i kill someone whille drunk I can blame the alchool?
He was suposed to be an example....
Also he was not arrested... he just got banned and removed from the CSM... this is as virtual as his offense... |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1105
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:33:00 -
[75] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote: This is far from the first time that mitani himself not to mention the goons as a whole or the player base in general have harassed someone with the stated intent of causing emotional harm to the real person behind the toon.
[citation needed]
The ice interdiction, hulkageddon, etc: all brilliant strategies to gain commercial advantage within the game. In game activities impacting in game activities.
Can you provide some references to situations where players engaged in particular campaigns with the intent of causing emotional harm to the real person behind the character?
|
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
91
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 04:04:00 -
[76] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:This Quote:It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges. Don't blame CCP, blame The mittani, he is the one that forgot about the EULA! Shame on him, becouse he wasted all the votes of people that trusted in him! Eve is serious business! But this is also a game! No one plays it to be greefed! And CCP should Really enforce this! People should have fun playing it! not being told to suicide! Also CCP should take what is said and reported in the forum more seriously! Also I really hope that CCP fix other greefing mechanisms in game! Enough of AFK cloakers!
EULA = End User License Agreement A document describing users rights and obligations with respect to a piece of software.
Last time I checked, it doesn't apply to marketing events, much less to non-employees at a marketing event. "The Mittani isn't even gone for a day and CCP's management is already making bad decisions."
THE MITTANI for CEO of CCP 1-800-273-8255 |
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
91
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 04:05:00 -
[77] - Quote
Skyreth wrote:Goon tears best tears. If people can't tell what sort of behavior is acceptable, their loss.
If Mitt had not told people to go and abuse that person, and had not given out the name...he'd have gotten away rather unaffected. But telling people on a live feed to find this person and abuse them is way beyond EVEs usual "tough love" play style.
As for if this were a real government official; If a real government official had told people on television to contact someone and abuse them to make them kill themselves...Yeah, they'd get the boot. Or at least, they would in any country with a sense of self respect and decency.
This was also an action against the EULA on a far more public and open venue than in-game. A venue anyone with any intelligence would have figured would not be appropriate for such remarks. But then...he does represent Goonswarm...so yeah...
That being said, I'll stand by the guy that was targeted by Mitt. No one deserves that sort of thing.
The CSM is not a government entity. It is a customer advocacy group, or at best a panel of customers.
"The Mittani isn't even gone for a day and CCP's management is already making bad decisions."
THE MITTANI for CEO of CCP 1-800-273-8255 |
IsTheOpOver
88
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 04:25:00 -
[78] - Quote
"CCP finds this behavior morally reprehensible."
Good show CCP.
From the sound of Alex in his State of the Goonion he was pretty much ok with everything CCP did up until this blog.
April 28th eh? Alrighty then!
|
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
84
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 04:28:00 -
[79] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:Quote:CCP in no way condones the harassment of players So what game am I playing?? Let me get my hulk and head back to hi-sec and test this one.... EVE Online is a harsh, cruel world. The people populating EVE Online are referred to as "capsuleers", "characters" or (in still-can't-recite-the-alphabet circles) as "toons". (pardon me while I go have a hot shower to wash that taint off my soul) It is entirely possible to have a virtual world where violence and treachery are the expected behaviour between characters, while still enforcing standards of behaviour between players in the real world. If you were playing Mortal Kombat, your character is expected to smash the snot out of the opponent. If you were to smash the snot out of the other player, you'd be going to court facing assault charges. While not necessarily a crime in most jurisdictions, recommending a course of action in the virtual world with the intent of achieving some negative outcome in the real world is at the very least morally shady. Clear as mud?
Indeed it is. I'm going to get a Mack, fit it with a civilian shield booster, sit in a Gallente ice belt and decry to all and sundry in local that I am mentaly unstable..... I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
Gevlin
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
121
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 04:32:00 -
[80] - Quote
Please include the following Administrated Controls to be in place:
1. Require people on the panel to be sober. 2. Insure that any reference to an individual names are removed from any slide show. 3. Put player created (IE CSM Panel, Alliance Panel, open mike night) content to be televised delayed at the end of the presentations ( like the security presentation was completed. )
This is your fan fest please keep it under control. Apparently you can't rely on the eve community and the media to react responsibly. I agree with several people: CCP needs to focus most of eve's recources on FIS, but the development of WIS still needs to continue, just as a slower and more efficient pace. In eve I wish to be more than just a machine. |
|
Yakumo Smith
The Forsakened Companions
27
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 04:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP sets the tone of Fanfest with it's events.
You can't have drunken quizes on one hand and demands for sobriety and people to "grow up" on the other. |
Dek Kato
eHarmony Inc. Brushie Brushie Brushie
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 04:58:00 -
[82] - Quote
This entire debacle has done more damage to my opinion of CCP than the long string of mismanagement that led up to Monoclegate and Incarna. Overreacting to the yellow journalism that made this story as big as it was will do nothing but harm the sandbox. This is blatant kowtowing to those same crappy gaming sites, who by the way won't cover this action or update their inaccurate articles (many of which as good as claimed this was basically a CCP sanctioned gangbang of one player). The damage has been done, but CCP has decided that rather than accept the risk that comes with their sandbox, they'd rather abuse their EULA by apparently including real life actions outside of the game. Or do presenters sign waivers acknowledging that by presenting, they are agreeing to abide by in-game rules? I rather doubt it. Also they're apparently ignoring the fact that THEIR moderator allowed it, and that THEY broadcast these comments MULTIPLE TIMES.
Mittens comments were not OK, but in the end absolutely zero harm was done, and the player in question has openly admitted that he doesn't really care. Disenfranchising 10k voters (thus making a sham of the CSM...again) and then threatening the entire culture of Fanfest, great response. I was dead set on getting to Iceland next year, but honestly now I can think of far better uses of the money given that I now have no clue what the event will be like. Maybe we can start breathalyzing panelists! Hell, better breathalyze at the door and stop the pub crawls, EULA breaking content might occur!
Stop living in fear of the media, CCP. I do understand that you're trying to control your legal liability here should a player actually do something as a result of comments like these, but this is a **** poor reaction. Next dev blog you post about "growing up", please include a link to for unsubscribing from for my convenience. |
Alcaeus Cetsuun
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:15:00 -
[83] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:CCP Navigator wrote: CCP in no way condones the harassment of players,
You have got to be kidding me. That line had to be a joke. CCP most certainly does condone this type of behavior. It is encouraged and lauded and bragged about and used as a point of advertisement. You push it all over the internet that Eve is the place where people are allowed to treat others as poorly as possible. The worse you treat others the better and the more press time you give it. Further if anyone complains about the culture that CCP has purposefully and intentionally created of people mistreating others they are referred to the song written and preformed by Perma Band, and band consisting purely of CCP Devs and employees, in which they are told in no uncertain terms to " Harden The **** Up ". You condone this behavior, You encourage it, You foster it, You cultivate it. I suspect the only reason you choose to deny it here and now is because someone in your legal department got a hold of you and told you that if this guy does kill himself you guys could be held liable for it. This dev blog is a disclaimer to try and disassociate CCP from any accountability for it's actions. As far as the law is concerned this may server to insulate you from any financial punishment but in the world of action and consequence what happened on that Alliance panel is a direct result of the environment that you, CCP, have willfully and intentionally created, fostered and nurtured. You may be able to fool the law of the land but you can't fool the law of action and consequence.
This really. I don't think for a second MOST people take all the BS bravado about being "hard" and evil etc. seriously. And I truly doubt permabands song was meant to be taken seriously in any way..at least I hope so. If it was..lol :p
We are all sitting in front of PCs playing an online video game in the end. Can't get much softer than that I'm sorry to inform everyone. There ARE hard, mean and tough people on this planet...none of them sitting at home whining on some forum.
But clearly some people do take all this too seriously. So I hope CCP is being sincere here. The past couple days after seeing what happened and also so many of the responses it is apparent A LOT of people have really lost perspective and need a reality check at least. |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
99
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:34:00 -
[84] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:CCP Navigator wrote: CCP in no way condones the harassment of players,
You have got to be kidding me. That line had to be a joke. CCP most certainly does condone this type of behavior. It is encouraged and lauded and bragged about and used as a point of advertisement. You push it all over the internet that Eve is the place where people are allowed to treat others as poorly as possible. The worse you treat others the better and the more press time you give it. Further if anyone complains about the culture that CCP has purposefully and intentionally created of people mistreating others they are referred to the song written and preformed by Perma Band, and band consisting purely of CCP Devs and employees, in which they are told in no uncertain terms to " Harden The **** Up ". You condone this behavior, You encourage it, You foster it, You cultivate it. I suspect the only reason you choose to deny it here and now is because someone in your legal department got a hold of you and told you that if this guy does kill himself you guys could be held liable for it. This dev blog is a disclaimer to try and disassociate CCP from any accountability for it's actions. As far as the law is concerned this may server to insulate you from any financial punishment but in the world of action and consequence what happened on that Alliance panel is a direct result of the environment that you, CCP, have willfully and intentionally created, fostered and nurtured. You may be able to fool the law of the land but you can't fool the law of action and consequence.
There's a difference between players and characters.
CCP never condoned player harassment. It's in the TOS.
Character harassment however is just fine.
I'm very sad to see that so many people don't see or even understand the difference.
|
Mutheer Lelmata'eb
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:39:00 -
[85] - Quote
I like how devs seem to make a thread and then run away, never answering a question as to how the eula applies to "out of game actions." |
Skyreth
Revelation of Wrath
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:14:00 -
[86] - Quote
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:Skyreth wrote:Goon tears best tears. If people can't tell what sort of behavior is acceptable, their loss.
If Mitt had not told people to go and abuse that person, and had not given out the name...he'd have gotten away rather unaffected. But telling people on a live feed to find this person and abuse them is way beyond EVEs usual "tough love" play style.
As for if this were a real government official; If a real government official had told people on television to contact someone and abuse them to make them kill themselves...Yeah, they'd get the boot. Or at least, they would in any country with a sense of self respect and decency.
This was also an action against the EULA on a far more public and open venue than in-game. A venue anyone with any intelligence would have figured would not be appropriate for such remarks. But then...he does represent Goonswarm...so yeah...
That being said, I'll stand by the guy that was targeted by Mitt. No one deserves that sort of thing. The CSM is not a government entity. It is a customer advocacy group, or at best a panel of customers.
A lot of people come up with the argument that a real politician would not lose their job over something like this, so I was arguing against it. Thats all.
|
Madame Fanney
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:18:00 -
[87] - Quote
You know itGÇÖs not CCPGÇÖs fault The GREAT Mitt-ens decided to take something too far, HeGÇÖs the one who put CCP in the position to HAVE to do something.
I find myself deliciously scrolling through to find the goon (the new pubies) whiny crying posts.
Goon tears are like Gold SNOT SNOT!!
|
Arkady Sadik
Gradient Electus Matari
582
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:20:00 -
[88] - Quote
Dev blog wrote:It is moments like this that remind us that there are people beyond the characters we encounter and everyone in the EVE universe should always treat other players with a base human level of respect and decencyGÇöwhether enemies or not. We would be remiss not to use this as a chance to revise our event and communication strategies.
CCP and the community of EVE Online need to understand this, and we, CCP, will be taking serious steps towards fostering a better environment at our panels and beyond. Thank you.
EVE online is a game where we can explore a "darker side" of human interaction. Non-consentual PvP, scamming, etc. are all things that make this game great. But in such an environment, we have to be more careful about when we hurt the player behind a character. Every player has to take more responsibility for their actions, and be more mindful of respecting other players.
I understand that this is not easy for all players. But if you can't keep yourself in check, if you can't be mindful of another player's feeling, if you can't respect the player behind an enemy character, EVE is not a good game for you. |
Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
487
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:24:00 -
[89] - Quote
Madame Fanney wrote:You know itGÇÖs not CCPGÇÖs fault The GREAT Mitt-ens decided to take something too far, HeGÇÖs the one who put CCP in the position to HAVE to do something. "something" is covered by ban, removal from the CSM and public apology
threatening to give up on fanfest (you know, that event where players and devs get stupidly drunk together) and turn it into a politically correct mini-blizzcon is something else entirely.
don't invite NVidia or Sony reps if they can't handle it but please don't kill fanfest. |
IsTheOpOver
89
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:30:00 -
[90] - Quote
Yakumo Smith wrote:CCP sets the tone of Fanfest with it's events.
You can't have drunken quizes on one hand and demands for sobriety and people to "grow up" on the other.
I agree with this.
It's also the reason why a perma-ban would have been far too severe.
|
|
knobber Jobbler
128
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:32:00 -
[91] - Quote
So ccp is going to turn fan fest into blizzcon, the dullest, most sanitized child friendly event known to man.
Ccp, grow a pair please, ditch the marketing director, he wasn't very good at Ncsoft anyway, he let tabula rasa get released and stop being Sony's lap dog. They're creepy as hell anyway. |
Madame Fanney
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:32:00 -
[92] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Madame Fanney wrote:You know itGÇÖs not CCPGÇÖs fault The GREAT Mitt-ens decided to take something too far, HeGÇÖs the one who put CCP in the position to HAVE to do something. "something" is covered by ban, removal from the CSM and public apology threatening to give up on fanfest (you know, that event where players and devs get stupidly drunk together) and turn it into a politically correct mini-blizzcon is something else entirely. don't invite NVidia or Sony reps if they can't handle it but please don't kill fanfest.
tbh it wasn't just Mr goon that was a shame to watch on that panel it was all the goon friends on the right hand side of the table, "Jagger-bomb" yeah, that and the power drunkenness was hard to watch. |
Montevius Williams
Eclipse Industrial Inc Order of the Void
242
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:39:00 -
[93] - Quote
Good write up +1,000
Goon tears are tasty
Nothing to see here, move along.
Lets NOT be known as the most unprofessional player base in the history of gaming people. |
Madame Fanney
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:43:00 -
[94] - Quote
DonGÇÖt get me wrong I donGÇÖt want to see fanfest go away either, but I can certainly see where CCP the company would have to make some changes and decisions regarding how the conduct them in the future, as they said they are getting bigger and need to grow up a bit. Alcohol is probably going to be fine but they may not allow it on the panel in front of cameras.
goon tears !!SNOT SNOT!! |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1109
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:44:00 -
[95] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:While not necessarily a crime in most jurisdictions, recommending a course of action in the virtual world with the intent of achieving some negative outcome in the real world is at the very least morally shady.
Clear as mud?
Indeed it is. I'm going to get a Mack, fit it with a civilian shield booster, sit in a Gallente ice belt and decry to all and sundry in local that I am mentaly unstable.....
I didn't think you'd get it. Thanks for proving me right
|
Roime
Shiva Furnace
370
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:50:00 -
[96] - Quote
I appreciate this direction.
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1109
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:55:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP, I was planning to go to Fanfest 2013, and I'll need to book tickets by about the end of May to get the better deals. It would be really useful if you could sort out any changes to format by then, and make sure to let us all know whether there will be major changes.
Here are the changes I can see would need to be made to avoid this kind of incident in the future (just in case you're taking suggestions):
- Delay the live feed by 8 seconds, be ready to bleep it when people mention antisocial issues such as suicide, "you are a terrible person and should kill yourself", as is done in mainstream "live" productions
- Leave the Alliance Forum intact, as is, and do not broadcast it live. Leave it as a perk for attendees. Record it and post it later once people have stopped talking about Fanfest (and you've had a chance to edit out the nasty bits)
Options such as requiring presenters to be sober will kill Fanfest. Michael Bolton III was an awesome presenter at the Alliance Panel in 2011, partly because he was barely able to stand up, which played into the general appreciation of Test Alliance as being a bunch of uncoordinated nincompoops.
Anything further than simply delaying the live feed by a few seconds with a bleeper standing by, and removing the Alliance Forum from the live feed altogether will detract from Fanfest. If the people at the venue don't have the freedom to make fools of themselves, it's not really Fanfest.
IMHO, the people at home watching the live feed just want to see cool stuff. We don't mind if it's edited for brevity, clarity or legal butt-covering :)
Of course, even in my trivially-revised version, I would still be disciplining Alex for saying such a spiteful thing.
Goons: they're not ruining the game, just ruining their game. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
370
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:57:00 -
[98] - Quote
Also, Goons, just stop posting, you are only digging yourselves deeper.
You threw your fat weight to defend an undefendable position, and you were stupid enough to continue it even after Mittani had already apologised, admitted the mistake and announced his resignation. You lost, and by immediately throwing your naive tantrum you also lost your face. He did not, your leader was intelligent enough to come through this as a man of his word, complete with spine and balls. You, the no-name plebs, you just managed to look like immature basement dwellers crying a river over nothing.
Maybe you are taking internet space pixels a bit too seriously?
|
Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
490
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 07:30:00 -
[99] - Quote
Madame Fanney wrote:DonGÇÖt get me wrong I donGÇÖt want to see fanfest go away either, but I can certainly see where CCP the company would have to make some changes and decisions regarding how the conduct them in the future, as they said they are getting bigger and need to grow up a bit. ! why do they "need" to do this?
I play EVE because the game itself and CCP as a company try to be different and certainly not mainstream. I also have an active WoW subscription and if Blizzard did something like this I wouldn't bat an eye.
Why? because I approach CCP with very different expectations than I do with Activision/Blizzard.
CCP was able to carve out a very stable niche for themselves by taking a different approach to game design and community management than their larger competitors. The moment they started to open EVE to a larger audience (Apocrypha) their stable growth trend gave way to a much more erratic subscription pattern.
"Growing up" is necessary to break into the mainstream market (where big MMOs with huge budgets die or go F2P after 1-2 years) but I think it is highly questionable that CCP can ever target the mainstream without losing its core playerbase (that provides most of EVE's content) and I had seriously hoped they had learned their lesson after last summer.
The "EVE is real" campaign was mocked a lot but imo the "real" dimension the metagame can take is at the heart of what makes EVE special. During my trial period I read a lot of EVE history trying to decide whether to subscribe for my first MMO ever or not: One impressive story was about a scammer using a phone at a public library to maintain contact with his target, running between his computer at home and the phone at the library so the target wouldn't know his real place of living. Another story was about some guy cutting off power to an enemy FC's home, so his buddies could decimate the now leaderless fleet. kugutsumen (what you would probably call "a convicted cyber criminal") hacking alliance forums and selling access to them for ISK. And this "EVE is real" promise is kept up in reality - whether it is huge botnets DDOSing voicecomms, certain groups ruthlessly employing client exploits to their advantage or an in-game bank manager using the proceeds of his scam to pay off debt on his RL home. An alliance like PL has internal security measures that would put most medium businesses (which have valuable real-world IP to protect) to shame.
EVE is a bad game but it has a great metagame which is at times so "real" that it makes people commit real-world crimes for an uncertain in-game advantage. What better endorsement for EVE could there be?
A "mainstream" EVE run by Sony would be bland by comparison and attract an audience that would ruin the metagame through lawsuits instead of taking "adapt or die" or "harden the **** up" to heart.
I like playing WoW because it is a very polished, entirely non-committal game and I don't expect anything less than getting milked for all that I'm worth by Activision. I play EVE for exactly the opposite reasons.
Starting to punish people in-game for OOG actions and the ever larger crowd of players clamoring for legal recourse no matter the situation are bad signs. Given another few years this trend will turn EVE into another beautifully walled themepark. |
Madame Fanney
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 07:39:00 -
[100] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:Madame Fanney wrote:DonGÇÖt get me wrong I donGÇÖt want to see fanfest go away either, but I can certainly see where CCP the company would have to make some changes and decisions regarding how the conduct them in the future, as they said they are getting bigger and need to grow up a bit. ! why do they "need" to do this? I play EVE because the game itself and CCP as a company try to be different and certainly not mainstream. I also have an active WoW subscription and if Blizzard did something like this I wouldn't bat an eye. Why? because I approach CCP with very different expectations than I do with Activision/Blizzard. CCP was able to carve out a very stable niche for themselves by taking a different approach to game design and community management than their larger competitors. The moment they started to open EVE to a larger audience (Apocrypha) their stable growth trend gave way to a much more erratic subscription pattern. "Growing up" is necessary to break into the mainstream market (where big MMOs with huge budgets die or go F2P after 1-2 years) but I think it is highly questionable that CCP can ever target the mainstream without losing its core playerbase (that provides most of EVE's content) and I had seriously hoped they had learned their lesson after last summer. The "EVE is real" campaign was mocked a lot but imo the "real" dimension the metagame can take is at the heart of what makes EVE special. During my trial period I read a lot of EVE history trying to decide whether to subscribe for my first MMO ever or not: One impressive story was about a scammer using a phone at a public library to maintain contact with his target, running between his computer at home and the phone at the library so the target wouldn't know his real place of living. Another story was about some guy cutting off power to an enemy FC's home, so his buddies could decimate the now leaderless fleet. kuguts umen (what you would probably call "a convicted cyber criminal") hacking alliance forums and selling access to them for ISK. And this "EVE is real" promise is kept up in reality - whether it is huge botnets DDOSing voicecomms, certain groups ruthlessly employing client exploits to their advantage or an in-game bank manager using the proceeds of his scam to pay off debt on his RL home. An alliance like PL has internal security measures that would put most medium businesses (which have valuable real-world IP to protect) to shame. EVE is a bad game but it has a great metagame which is at times so "real" that it makes people commit real-world crimes for an uncertain in-game advantage. What better endorsement for EVE could there be? A "mainstream" EVE run by Sony would be bland by comparison and it would probably attract an audience that would ruin the metagame through lawsuits instead of taking "adapt or die" or "harden the **** up" to heart. I like playing WoW because it is a very polished, entirely non-committal game and I don't expect anything less than getting milked for all that I'm worth by Activision. I play EVE for exactly the opposite reasons. Starting to punish people in-game for OOG actions and the ever larger crowd of players clamoring for legal recourse no matter the situation are bad signs. Given another few years this trend will turn EVE into another beautifully walled themepark.
Because they have investors, they have a product they are marketing and need their brand to be shown as good and solid, they aren't punishing people in game and they will find a good happy medium Im sure, being in marketing I can plainly see where CCP the company will take the panel's.
for instance the ceo may have been drinking a lot but he showed he was in control of it whilst he was on the stage infront of everyone, he knows I'm sure his limits and wouldn't be on stage stumbling drunk, and forgetting which slides he was presenting. just an example of how they will monitor it in future events.
all it takes is one person to screw the rest. |
|
Endeavour Starfleet
781
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 07:41:00 -
[101] - Quote
An absolutely disgusting dev blog. CCP you should be ashamed of yourself as a company for this continued behavior and throwing a former CSM member under the bus for a complete non issue.
So now that Sony is getting a sweat about the whole thing you are prepared to gut fanfest of its freedom and install nice "politically correct" presentations? Perhaps we can have a tea party at fanfest discussing ways CSM member Darius and Ammzi could have been a bit nicer in their communications to the incursion community? Or maybe alliances can read out the numbers of players they have recruited this year or maybe dare I even suggest alliances discussing small disputes over ratting rights in what is obviously a very nice and caring game?
Looks like the Incarna mindset has returned.... |
Madame Fanney
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 07:52:00 -
[102] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:An absolutely disgusting dev blog. CCP you should be ashamed of yourself as a company for this continued behavior and throwing a former CSM member under the bus for a complete non issue.
So now that Sony is getting a sweat about the whole thing you are prepared to gut fanfest of its freedom and install nice "politically correct" presentations? Perhaps we can have a tea party at fanfest discussing ways CSM member Darius and Ammzi could have been a bit nicer in their communications to the incursion community? Or maybe alliances can read out the numbers of players they have recruited this year or maybe dare I even suggest alliances discussing small disputes over ratting rights in what is obviously a very nice and caring game?
Looks like the Incarna mindset has returned....
They didn't specifically say they werent going to have fanfest or the panel in the coming years, however they did say that they will monitor it more closely and make changes to how it is presented.
"Should we choose to hold an Alliance Panel next year, we will still aim for comedic player-agency over the content, but will be very careful to create a different setting for the event."
Granted it is their discretion to nix it in the future, but Ifeel that they will just moderate the acohol consumption a bit more next time. again it is the person whom made the foul that forces the hand of ccp. don't blame them blame your elected
|
Xervish Krin
Shiva Furnace
12
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 08:05:00 -
[103] - Quote
I like Mittens but I can see why they had to do this, especially with the story hitting the intertube press. Besides, he was being an ass.
It's just a shame that the panel is going to get changed, maybe neutered, simply because Mittens had to jump over the line to fuel his 'I'm a space masochist look at me look at me' ego.
Ah well, someone was always going to end up as That Guy. As for Jita... well, the place has needed clearing out for a while now. |
C Genix
Alphane Research Co-operative
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 08:15:00 -
[104] - Quote
Abysaml
30 days 'killah' returns
I have 30 days to take you down CCP for the protection of innocent life |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1325
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 08:56:00 -
[105] - Quote
All powerpoint slides for the presentation were run by a CCP employee to make sure no obvious nudity or sexually explicit content was present.
Even though this panel was billed as unfiltered by CCP, we expect public presentations to be courteous and professional towards others. ~ CCP Manifest and CCP Navigator
Obviously you guys dropped the ball big time. How can publicly boasting about causing sorrow and humiliation to others in-game be considered as courteous and professional towards others?
Anyone watching the video can see that the first 3 Alliance Ceo's conducted themselves in a professional manner and did the normal presentation as expected. They stated their Alliance history, political stance and goals mixed in with some humor. Very informative and fun.
The 4th presenter - No Holes Barred Alliance CEO - strayed away from the normal format even though he conducted himself in a professional manner. All I can remember about his presentation is posting players names singing their National Anthem for ransom. The posting of their names should not have been allowed. In fact, I view his whole presentation as nothing more than an obvious griefer boasting about humiliating others.
The last 3 Alliance CEO's were definitely in party mode and didn't give a crap about what anyone else thought. That right there should have sounded warning bells with the CCP employee overlooking the panel.
The 5th presenter - Test Alliance CEO - was definitely inebriated and should not have been allowed to participate. After viewing the video 3 times I still can't remember anything else about his presentation other than him constantly spouting foul language and generally being obnoxious.
The 6th presenter - Dirt Nap Squad Alliance CEO - was able to maintain a semi professional appearance and stayed within the normal format for the presentation even though he was in party mode.
The 7th presenter - Goonswarm Alliance CEO - definitely strayed from the normal presentation and reveled in displaying the sorrow he has caused others in-game. He was also in party mode but he wasn't inebriated like Test Alliance CEO. I view his whole presentation as offensive, not only due to the mocking of the various personal mail messages received, but also due to his unprofessional manner displayed by an arrogant and confrontational demeanor with constant use of vulgar language.
All in all I think CCP bears a portion of the blame for allowing this fiasco to happen. As a paying customer and community member of Eve Online, I am appalled and disappointed that CCP allows and encourages this type of behavior at an Official company function. I feel this panel gave the whole world the wrong impression about CCP, Eve Online and it's player base. Basically after viewing that video, it looks like this game is nothing more than an Internet MMO created specifically for players to grief others anyway possible.
|
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
674
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 09:11:00 -
[106] - Quote
I has happend. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2016
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 09:24:00 -
[107] - Quote
I hope you take one simple consideration in to account when thinking about future fanfests and how this affects them. Make the needs and wants of the people who attend them a primary consederation. Don't ruin fanfest in order to cater to people who don't attend or just watch the stream. If you have to choose between the attendees and us, choose the attendees and stream only shows and events where your staff and products are in the spotlight and you have a tight control on the event. Show the more fan/party oriented events later, after you had time to screen them, or not at all.
The fanfest is there for you to show off your products and for your fans to party and get to meet the devs and other players. You can achieve both without live streaming every drunken party/event to the public. The important thing is that the people who went there can have fun in a relaxed and easygoing atmosphere. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1076
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 09:36:00 -
[108] - Quote
I think that the 30 day hammer, voluntary apologies and discussions about alliance panel content were good and mature moves to fix the damage caused by this incident.
However I do have mixed feeling did this have to affect the CSM related stuff as I see that there was no foul play there. Perhaps - perhaps not. All in all... hopefully this entire thing can be buried sooner rather than later so we can focus to more important things (like EVE as a game) again.
Get |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
The I and F Taxation Trust
390
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 09:42:00 -
[109] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:(...)
All in all I think CCP bears a portion of the blame for allowing this fiasco to happen. As a paying customer and community member of Eve Online, I am appalled and disappointed that CCP allows and encourages this type of behavior at an Official company function. I feel this panel gave the whole world the wrong impression about CCP, Eve Online and it's player base. Basically after viewing that video, it looks like this game is nothing more than an Internet MMO created specifically for players to grief others anyway possible.
Pretty much this. The point where this "grief for free" selling line fails is once you warn wannabe players that they are not provided any meaningful way to hand it back to the offender... so it's actually YOU will be griefed for free (and then laughed at). You lost your ship, your clone, your implants... all you can do is make him lose a ship (he got a hundred more in his corp hangar) and his implants (was a JC anyway), and that being very lucky and supposing they misjudged your ability to avenge your own death. Which rarely is the case; they targetted you precisely because you were hepless and can't bite back.
This is an outdated mindset; when EVE was small and young, griefing should be empowered to become a selling line, but as griefing goes on, telling your customers that they lost hundreds of dollars in stuff and must beat it because you as a company will not provide them the means to retaliate is bad policy. Because they will not give you nor anybody else another chance to lose stuff; they will just go to a place where their investments are safer or can be protected in some way.
EVE as a PvP game has been for long a dream African hunting ground where hunters are inmune to their preys; and thus EVE has developed a race of hunters who love shooting RPGs at sleepy zebras chained to a tree.
Maybe it's time to either loose some buffalos (the second deadliest mammal in Africa; the first one are hypos), or just allow the zebras to hire a hitman to go after the hunters.
Maybe then the next fanfests will have some interesting stories... on how "X" went from being wardecced to spend a dozen PLExes in bounties to pay for the obliteration of the corporation that messed with him, or how "Y" explain the so-sad-story of how a dishonored ransom ended up with his ass being shot everytime, everywhere, by a vengeful victim's hired guns.
Time to shamelessly plug some EVE: Retaliation EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 20% Nullsec; 67% Highsec. CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.-á
CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
T'hena Kha'tek
Austudy The Welfare State
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 10:38:00 -
[110] - Quote
[url]http://soundcloud.com/cptunderpants/state-of-the-goonion-march[/url]
After listening to this I actually think he sounds exactly the same Sober as Drunk as hell on Yager Bombers. I really am amazed at how this whole thing has snowballed into what we have now. CCP really does have to look inwardly at itself and what type of game its really trying to create here, Its a sandbox about to turn into a blood bath. This has been boiling over for a good time and the underhand tactics people use to gain advantage ingame, overtime people have adapted found niches to exploit used every possible way to scam, steal, cheat, lie,grief, even make a handsome living out of game on RL transactions. So we are at a interesting crossroad in the game, The CFC has been told to burn down Jita which is about as ******** as a cry wolf can be. 4 weeks to move a trade hub and reinforce the node to the biggest implosion eve has ever seen. Be rest assured concord will be waiting for you enmass and so will about 15000 faction fitted battleships |
|
SerratedX
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 11:09:00 -
[111] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: I feel this panel gave the whole world the wrong impression about CCP, Eve Online and it's player base. Basically after viewing that video, it looks like this game is nothing more than an Internet MMO created specifically for players to grief others anyway possible.
Fanfest is for players (fans) of eve online. Who gives a **** what other people think as long as the players are having fun. There was no outrage at the alliance panel. Everyone just clapped and moved on to find the next presentation / roundtable they were interested in.
Only days later when the "gaming" press took to running stories saying: "YOU SHOULD BE OUTRAGED", did CCP take notice. And that is goddamn lame. Marketing eve online as a unique "sandbox" game and CCP as a brave company who does its own thing, yet when there is bad press, they bow to mainstream demand and political correctness.
|
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
106
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 11:36:00 -
[112] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:An absolutely disgusting dev blog. CCP you should be ashamed of yourself as a company for this continued behavior and throwing a former CSM member under the bus for a complete non issue.
So now that Sony is getting a sweat about the whole thing you are prepared to gut fanfest of its freedom and install nice "politically correct" presentations? Perhaps we can have a tea party at fanfest discussing ways CSM member Darius and Ammzi could have been a bit nicer in their communications to the incursion community? Or maybe alliances can read out the numbers of players they have recruited this year or maybe dare I even suggest alliances discussing small disputes over ratting rights in what is obviously a very nice and caring game?
Looks like the Incarna mindset has returned....
Someone did something wrong and is punished for it.
I don't see the problem here.
Why is everyone trying so hard to shift the blame? This isn't an issue you just wave off with an apoligy. |
Raneru
Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard
43
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 11:56:00 -
[113] - Quote
SerratedX wrote:
Fanfest is for players (fans) of eve online. Who gives a **** what other people think as long as the players are having fun. There was no outrage at the alliance panel. Everyone just clapped and moved on to find the next presentation / roundtable they were interested in.
Only days later when the "gaming" press took to running stories saying: "YOU SHOULD BE OUTRAGED", did CCP take notice. And that is goddamn lame. Marketing eve online as a unique "sandbox" game and CCP as a brave company who does its own thing, yet when there is bad press, they bow to mainstream demand and political correctness.
QFT |
Care Bear King
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 12:24:00 -
[114] - Quote
Lame pussification of EvE continues to be lame.
DEVs should be spending their time figuring out why ice mining drove a player to claiming suicidal tendencies in the first place.
. . .
A Mittani-less CSM7 does not represent the players! |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1333
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 12:42:00 -
[115] - Quote
Raneru wrote:SerratedX wrote:
Fanfest is for players (fans) of eve online. Who gives a **** what other people think as long as the players are having fun. There was no outrage at the alliance panel. Everyone just clapped and moved on to find the next presentation / roundtable they were interested in.
Only days later when the "gaming" press took to running stories saying: "YOU SHOULD BE OUTRAGED", did CCP take notice. And that is goddamn lame. Marketing eve online as a unique "sandbox" game and CCP as a brave company who does its own thing, yet when there is bad press, they bow to mainstream demand and political correctness.
QFT
Look at the video again, you can hear people in the audience telling him to shut up. You can also see people leaving instead of staying to ask questions. They definitely didn't want to watch any more of their obvious display of arrogant drunken behavior. Anyway, I'm a player and a fan of Eve Online and as a paying member of this community I stand by my original statement in this thread.
Bottom line - Everyone should give a **** what other people think of this game, especially when it's live video stream with the main intention of bringing in more subscriptions. Plus the fact that all media press is invited to Fanfest by CCP to promote this game in a positive view. The last thing this game needs is to represented publicly by unprofessional drunken frat boys looking to flex their EPEEN and revel in the misery they cause others in game. |
Des Jardin
Aperture Harmonics K162
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 14:31:00 -
[116] - Quote
I believe that CCP's response to this incident was appropriately measured given the realities of running a business and the future promotion of all things EvE.
EvE will continue to be a "sandbox" despite the outcries of injustice.
People who treat the game like a "litterbox," however, should realize that every once in a while, it needs to get cleaned out.
"Good against remotes is one thing.-á Good against the living ... that's something else." |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
1778
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 14:35:00 -
[117] - Quote
To be honest this whole scandal is CCP completing their time in the wilderness of insanity and getting back to being the company that built eve. Last year they finally snapped out of the Incarna madness and put things on the right track with Crucible. This year they faced a situation where there was inevitably going to be a showdown about who ran Eve Online ... CCP iceland or Something Awful forums.
For a while now its been apparent that the game does have a bad reputation in the wider community press and community not just because its ruthless "core style" pvp, but because some of the community is regarded very badly for ooc griefing and harrassment. What this whole scandal has displayed is that its not the "Eve community" thats to blame for this stuff really, its the Something Awful community that has refused to integrate with the Eve community and keeps its own codes of conduct (or lack therein) above any notion of friendly camaraderie out of character with the rest of the game.
This came into pefect focus at fanfest where you saw a massive contrast between the warmth and friendships on display between most eve players and the Gianturco performance on the alliance panel as (then) CSM chair. I think its the first time its been so totally apparent that the problem with Eve's larger reputation amongst gamers is not "Eve" its the frat-boy SA crowd.
Now some companies would have been terrified of Alexander Gianturco and the 10,000 goons and failed to do what was right in his punishment. Some would have tried a horrible watered down mealy-mouthed compromise and tried to get away with doing little on the grounds of keeping the goon subs. But I think CCP demonstrated courage and independence and drew a line in the sand really that the huge majority of actual eve players will wholeheartedly applaud.
I pay my subs to be a member of the Eve Online universe and the gaming community of Eve online. Not to be part of Something Awful.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom. Jericho Fraction is Recruiting! |
Knug LiDi
N00bFleeT Numquam Ambulare Solus
44
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 14:51:00 -
[118] - Quote
Tricky **** (Richard Nixon) was elected president and then was impeached. Were those votes wasted ? When you vote for a candidate that did not win, were those votes wasted ?
Nope.
Any vote cast is never wasted. Ever.
For the 10k that voted for Mittens, your vote did count.
For the election.
Your candidate managed to get himself booted off the CSM through his own deliberate actions.
I think the most important things for the state of EVE will not occur in April, But in May and the months following Mittens return.
How Mittens will return - his relationship with the CSM - his relation ship with CCP - his relationship with Goons - may have long lasting impact on the game. These relationship exist, they have value, they are real, but each of them will change and these changes may well change EVE online.
As for televising unscripted events, perhaps CCP has learned a lesson as well.
If only we could fall into a woman's arms
without falling into her hands |
Esan Vartesa
Samarkand Financial
205
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 14:52:00 -
[119] - Quote
Aryth wrote: He apologized, fell on his sword, and resigned.
You do understand that falling on your sword is supposed to hurt, right?
Aryth wrote: Note, this is all after a presentation where NO ONE in attendance, including all of CCP said a word. CCP obviously didn't consider this worthy of any attention until someone batphoned them.
That's called an awkward silence. |
Highauger's animated corpse
Stargate SG-1 Fatal Ascension
21
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 14:53:00 -
[120] - Quote
Some things I found that were funny...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZO2vFXrlGE
ooh and the messiah...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDW_Hj2K0wo
.. not that I am suggesting or implying anyone kill themselves. This is comedy, see? |
|
Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
494
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:12:00 -
[121] - Quote
Madame Fanney wrote:Because they have investors, they have a product they are marketing and need their brand to be shown as good and solid, they aren't punishing people in game and they will find a good happy medium Im sure, being in marketing I can plainly see where CCP the company will take the panel's. I, too, can see where CCP will take the panels - otherwise I wouldn't post^^
as I wrote in my long post - I had hoped that CCP might have been cured from its expansionist plans after last summer; that the company had recognized the value of its market niche and would focus on consolidating its finances through budget cuts instead of hoping for miracle growth for the foreseeable future.
they can try to tame fanfest and a year or two later they'll also tame the vegas meeting, they can rework their GM policies to be more active about behavior that is deemed socially unacceptable by "the public", they can try to attract the mainstream - but by doing so hey will lose the bittervets and imo these are one of the most important ingredients to EVE's succes (they create content, hey give the game world a sense of continuity & history, they create the marketing materials that attract new players [such as the bpo scam I referred to above], ...)
I guess what I am really angry about that the behavior shown by the mittani is commonplace in EVE - in-game and oog. Even that miner's tears have been posted 5 months ago on public forums with all the predictable comments and nobody gave a damn. But now, just because some nvidia/sony reps and a few press guys sat in the audience, "the eve community" and ccp start pretending to play hello kitty online.
By catering to the whole media hysteria about "political correctness", "cyber bullying" (how is it different when it happens online?), taking the defensive/guilty stance by default when questioned about the evilness of computer games, ... we only make sure these topics stay around and keep getting reinforced. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1389
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:17:00 -
[122] - Quote
No more drinking during Fanfest. I am sure they will still do Pub Crawls and the like but I bet they will no longer allow alchohol during anything that is televised or public at the Fanfests It was still a great Fanfest CCP! As always you guys do a fantastic job Mittani screwed up. He is paying the price. His whine about being "thrown under the bus" by CCP is ubsurd. Sure, he apologized of his own accord and stepped down from the CSM on his own but CCP isn't throwing anybody under the bus. Throwing someone under a bus is making them take the blame for something they did not do. CCP isn't doing this. Mittani clearly made a mistake. One he apologized for but also one that not only raised a lot of attention but caused a lot of problems and will have many reprecautions. **** happens. He is paying for what he did. Time to move on.
Looking forward to many more years of EvE! EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
boeboe joe
Sons Of Sins and Shadow
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:33:00 -
[123] - Quote
Vincent VanDamme wrote:
I understand disagreeing with the decisions, who wouldn't at times? But I have to say that the sense of entitlement coming as a result of this is quite staggering
I agre
But this is my opinion, which I don't know all the facts, on some internet forum
First and foremost this whole situation is very unfortunate and saddening. Why? Because I don't believe for a moment that most of us as people would ever make fun of someone with depression and suicidal thoughts. Especially over a live broadcast, in front of thousands of others.
I don't think that most here realize that depression is a medical illness, and in fact can cause death to some. This is a unique case because this isn't just some player making fun of another player. This was a member of an officially recognized stakeholder at CCP who has shown a lack of maturity in public. It's interesting to see how so many on these forums claim to make fun of others like this all the time. Where has civility gone in our player base? I hope that most here will learn that there are some things, you just don't do. Surely as mature people we can all take a step back from this whole situation and say CCP made the right choice
I, for one, am very pleased at how CCP has treated this situation. I am also very glad to see that CCP does the right thing, even when they go against the popular opinion.
|
Dersen Lowery
Children of Armok Ushra'Khan
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:54:00 -
[124] - Quote
Alex signed a document when he joined the CSM that held him to a higher standard than the rest of us are held to, with a stiff penalty in place for failing to uphold that standard. He failed to uphold it. CCP applied the penalty that he agreed to when he joined the CSM,. They added a mild penalty for a TOS violation at an official CCP event with media coverage, which is entirely at CCP discretion.
The people who voted for him, and who are justifiably angry at not having the candidate they voted for as a representative, should take it up with him. As he has acknowledged, his behavior justified stepping down from his position.
I'm glad to see CCP being a neutral arbiter, rather than carving an exception out for one guy because he's a special snowflake--or worse, letting him off the hook because he's on the CSM. With power comes responsibility.
I have every confidence that the remaining members of the CSM will serve as an organized and effective advisory board. |
Iosue
Black Sky Hipsters
83
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:45:00 -
[125] - Quote
I applaud CCP for taking a stand on this issue. This game is bigger than any one group of players. While everyone has their opinion on what constitutes acceptable behavior in-game, when it comes to representing the game to a global audience, I believe it important to represent EVE Online in a mature and good-natured manner.
While I did not attend fanfest, I watched a large amount of footage (as I do every year) from the streaming site. The game was presented in a lively and mature fashion, for the most part. And I believe CCP went to great lengths to make sure everybody had fun while attending and presenting. ItGÇÖs a shame that a few had to take advantage of CCPGÇÖs efforts to promote an open and uncensored dialogue. Downing shots like itGÇÖs your first frat party is not appropriate when conduction these types of panels and forums.
And for those nay-sayers; I have nothing against the Mittani. HeGÇÖs contributed a lot to the overall improvement of the game. In fact, I see it as unfortunate that he chose to act this way, as his departure from the CSM will no-doubt have a negative effect on the quality of the game. In addition, CCP must now make changes to rules governing panels and future fanfests; everyone loses here.
The role of CSM Chair represents more than just constituents, it represents the game as a whole to all those who have never seen or heard of EVE Online. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:45:00 -
[126] - Quote
And so continues the softening of EvE. Terrible choice imo. |
Dalketh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 17:10:00 -
[127] - Quote
Des Jardin wrote:EvE will continue to be a "sandbox" despite the outcries of injustice.
People who treat the game like a "litterbox," however, should realize that every once in a while, it needs to get cleaned out.
BEST post I have read in days!
|
Commander Lojak
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:31:00 -
[128] - Quote
domino 8 wrote:Can I just ask who in CCP okayed the presentation which used a private message from a guy talking about his divorce and feeling suicidal as comedic material?
However unfortunate the mittani's comments where (and lets face it they were) CCP obviously allowed the topic to get past their own internal censor. CCP did this undoubtedly knowing it was going to be used to ridicule that player.
It would be very interesting to know why they thought showing a player talking about suicide was something that could be used as a comedy prop.
You really don't seem to be taking responsibly for it at all, if you had veto'd the slide it wouldn't have even come up on the panel.
Perma-ban mittani I don't really care, but your position seems to me remarkably disingenuous given that it was CCP that allowed the material on the panel, allowed the panellists to be drunk (it seems you actually encouraged it) and choose to have a live global broadcast with no time delay - or at least didn't seem to have a competent producer to knew to filter it. If you were a broadcaster it would be you as the producer not the broadcaster that would be held to account.
You really seem to have given someone the sh*t end of the stick and now appear to be admonishing them for have dirty hands.
Punish him, whatever, but at least acknowledge that it was CCPs fault the topic was even on the agenda in the first place.
This sums up my feelings on the issue.
Take some responsiblity CCP. |
Drakkin Telerix
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 19:10:00 -
[129] - Quote
CCP Navigator wrote:Fanfest 2012 was a phenomenal success with player participation at an all-time high and a greater focus than ever on EVE Online. Unfortunately we had an incident at the Alliance Panel which has resulted in us setting out new rules and policies for future Fanfests. CCP Navigator and CCP Darth Beta explain how EVE is growing up in this dev blog.
Love the dev blog update and good for you all!! While the uniqueness of the EVE/CCP and customers relationship is one of the many things that drew me to EVE I am very happy to see that your "internal investigation" wasn't a sham and that you all realized how abhorrent this kind of behavior really is...regardless of people "being in or out of character". |
Midori Amiiko
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 19:25:00 -
[130] - Quote
Sweet Goon tears will not distract me...Sweet Goon tears will not distract me...
OK. There's this thing called cyberbullying. Some of you might have heard of it. People have killed themselves from it. It is SRSBSNS. Some people hang on the fact that an in-game ID was used, and that this renders the act harmless. I leave it to the reader's judgement if that really makes a difference.
Some posters talk about the effect this will have on Eve. Imagine the effect a suicide would have. Dungeons & Dragons still suffers from the stigma created by a player suicide decades ago. There is a segment of the general population that loves it when they can stick their noses into things...things like this. There's a presidential electon coming up here in the states and I'm almost 100% sure that a goon-inspired player suicide would become a talking point for all the candidates. I can hear the phrase, "Something must be done..." followed by all sorts of awful ideas on how to stop it from happening again.
"The Panelist" says in his apology that "The Mittani" is just a character that he role-plays. I really question that. I believe that A.G. really is a petty bully who enjoys causing discomfort to those who he has targeted. In vino veritas, right?
Another thought is that "The Panelist" should keep in mind is that he's pretty easy to find. He goes to Fanfest every year. One of his victims might just introduce his neck to the jagged end of a broken bottle. If there is anything that would cause more of a ruckus than a player suicide, a game-motivated murder would probably be it. |
|
Bantara
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 19:39:00 -
[131] - Quote
Quoting V...
CCP Navigator wrote: It is moments like this that remind us that there are people beyond the characters we encounter and everyone in the EVE universe should always treat other players with a base human level of respect and decency The fact that you need a reminder of this is a serious problem. I'll quote from a forum post long ago...
Quote:Quote:Ultimately, it's just a stupid game, and some stupid message boards about a stupid game. Where, ultimately, people behave according to the nature of their hearts. An ass on the internet is someone who will be an ass to you to your face. We all know there is a real person behind posts, and how we treat them is real life, because they are real people. Not knowing their real name or A/S/L doesn't make that any less so."
Reiisha wrote:CCP never condoned player harassment. It's in the TOS. Character harassment however is just fine. I'm very sad to see that so many people don't see or even understand the difference. No, and it is sad YOU don't see it--a character and a person are indeed seperate--on the qualities they both have. But a character doesn't have emotions, so when you try to enlist an emotional reaction from a character, you aren't targetting a character, you are targeting a person.
Zadgul wrote:This is a game about destroying, dehumanizing and griefing in-game personas. Had he said this dude's RL name, I'd agree, he would have it coming. However, this dude's RL name was never used. First, no, that's what *you* have chosen to make this game, for yourself. And several others have too. But that's the sandbox. You haven't the right nor authority to declare it for anyone else. Secondly, targetting a character is targeting a player, see above. |
Bantara
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 19:42:00 -
[132] - Quote
Zastrow wrote:CCP: Now that we have to bow to pressure of companies larger than ourselves, we are going to start removing the magic that makes Fanfest great. Cause frat parties are awesome! I love non-consensual sex, stupidity, and superficiality!
Ganthrithor wrote:This isn't about Mittani, this is about CCP "growing up" and sanitizing fanfest and the game, which would be utterly terrible for the game and for the community. There's a reason I don't fly around the world for a week to go to Blizzcon. Because you haven't "grown up" and gotten over an adolescent fascination with alcohol and cursing?
Yasuhiro Shoe wrote:Nope. You can't enforce maturity. That's not your job and it's arrogant of you to tell people otherwise. Yes, actually, they can. It doesn't have to be 'their job', it's their event. And their product. They can do whatever the want with it, and you'll have to HTFU or GTFO.
Zastrow wrote:Fanfest is great because of this party culture. If you try to "grow up" and make it another big lame marketing event, the magic will be gone. These are not the only two options.
Sturmwolke wrote:In bygone days, there were clear boundaries between appropiate and in-appropiate public behaviours - which I don't think many parents nowadays pass to their children. Heh, I think you missed a generation; many of these people probably *are* parents! |
Bantara
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 19:48:00 -
[133] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote: but imo the "real" dimension the metagame can take is at the heart of what makes EVE special. {...}Another story was about some guy cutting off power to an enemy FC's home, so his buddies could decimate the now leaderless fleet. ********** (what you would probably call "a convicted cyber criminal") hacking alliance forums and selling access to them for ISK. .....wow....you're...wow. This crap's illegal, not cool.
Andrea Griffin wrote:I'm not looking for the awkward, utterly sterile corporate atmosphere either; there's a lot of room in between and, really, if people could just tone down the language somewhat that would be a big improvement. Just a nudge in the opposite direction. A little more class. Sustaine wrote:but he deserves it. You voted for him, he sank your vote. Blame him.
Skyreth wrote:Goon tears best tears. If people can't tell what sort of behavior is acceptable, their loss.
ergherhdfgh wrote:CCP Navigator: "CCP in no way condones the harassment of players..." You have got to be kidding me. That line had to be a joke. CCP most certainly does condone this type of behavior. It is encouraged and lauded and bragged about and used as a point of advertisement. You push it all over the internet that Eve is the place where people are allowed to treat others as poorly as possible. The worse you treat others the better and the more press time you give it. All of Jade Constantine's post #116... QFT
Also, CCP is responsible for this as well. But I have no idea what's going on there behind closed doors, so I'm not going to decry them as if they weren't doing it. |
Jiang Chaobai
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:18:00 -
[134] - Quote
Perhaps a better translation would've been, "Now that we're teetering on the edge of raking in piles of Sony money, we're going to suddenly take a principled stand on actions that could make for bad press. You play our game for the hands-off, rough-edged environment that we intentionally fostered. Now that our subscriber numbers have earned the attention of well-financed corporate interests, we've decided to shrug off our historically unique stance on player interaction in favor of a bland, economically-safe future." |
orphenshadow
Easy Co. Fatal Ascension
55
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:31:00 -
[135] - Quote
So.. pretty much
CCP is going to nerf the alliance panel next year..
they seem to think that they have control over the culture of eve online..
Hate to break it to you CCP, but you do not have any control over the culture.
WE created the culture. You get to profit from it. That's how this deal works.
Just because Sony let you stick your pole in their wet-spot doe not change anything. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
344
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 21:40:00 -
[136] - Quote
I would like to formally announce that for next year Goonswarm Federation are also reviewing our internal processes to prevent a repeat of this unfortunate occurrence.
(we're choosing somebody who can hold their drink to do the Alliance Presentation) Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Khadann
First Legion La Division Bleue
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:13:00 -
[137] - Quote
This whole story does not smell good and is gonna stay around for ... until next year! |
Abulurd Boniface
United Tritanium Forge Ishukone Drug and Research Utilization Group
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:42:00 -
[138] - Quote
This is the first time that I see the quote. It actually is a boneheaded thing to say
There are a few things at play here that will have the sociologists rejoice with the opportunity for promoting their dissertations and playing EVE while doing so
- freedom of speech. I'm all for it. It -never- means that people are supposed to agree with the speech. So, dear Mittens absolutely has the right to say it, IMHO, I cannot find it within me to agree with it
- res publica: with a democratically elected body, does it not follow that the elected representative speaks for their constituents and cannot be punished for that speech? I do not want my elected officials to feel restricted in their speech, they have to be able to say what they want without fear of repercussions. Has anyone considered that angle
- the sandbox and the mentally infirm: I have seen depression first-hand and in its most severe form it is debilitating, corrosive, dark as the night and profoundly ugly. A person like that deserves love, compassion and awesome professional help. At the same time they should not try and involve themselves in the madhouse that is something like EVE Online. I am not blaming the victim but the person might consider not exposing themselves to an environment where they cannot handle the harsh realities that are part and parcel of that environment. We do not want children in EVE, they do not have the maturity to deal with self-expression that is often blunt and crass. By the same token I don't believe EVE is the right place for people who struggle with mental issues. That's not me, the sturdy-space-pilot speaking, this is about protecting those who cannot protect themselves
- we do not know who suffers from mental issues if they themselves don't let on that they do. How would you tell if the other person never said anything? Why make yourself vulnerable in a game where vulnerability is exploited? Have we verified the status of this player? Are we sure that this is in fact not someone meta-gaming (I was in a round table where one of the women there mentioned that people were more forgiving towards her when she mentions she's a woman, it is a time-honored way of exploiting weakness and they should definitely do it if it works for them)? If we established pattern beforehand, why did CCP not reach out to the player and express their appreciation for the person trying out the environment, and then tell him this is not really the place for him and give him his money back? Next to the EULA applying to us players, is there also not a duty of care towards the infirm by CCP
I'm not a fan of 'controlled communication', although I'm not ignoring what CCP stands for. If the idea is to mature then one side of the equation has to be mental resilience on the side of the player. I do not want to end up in an environment that is politically correct. Mainly because political correctness is tihsllub. I live in a country with 7 governments, where the politicians have jurisdiction but no accountability. Where if policies are ruinous to the tune of tens of billions of Euros where this generation and the next will be paying for, the response is the big whatever and a shrug, but don't try to take a loaf of bread out of a trash container, that was still perfectly edible when it was thrown away by the mega store, because then you're a thief. And don't have a naked photoshoot in a courthouse, because that's an outrage, but a murder investigation on 28 murders that has not lead to a single conviction in 3 decades, that's the way the cookie crumbles. I don't do political correctness
So, CCP, do me a favor and don't become the thought police, the spirit of Iceland is strong, resilient, beautiful and perfectly able to handle itself just fine without a wagging finger
And Mittani, please don't be a horse's ass and target those people who are never going to be a threat to you anyway. You and your armada can just sail by people like that and let them do what they're doing without having to nail them to a plank. You don't need to blow up every boat you see to drive the point home that you're the king of space. There is beauty in just leaving some people alone. |
Jita Alt666
975
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 23:53:00 -
[139] - Quote
Great tears thread. The forums shall continue to fill with tears as New Eden Burns
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Little Brat
The Mighty
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 02:23:00 -
[140] - Quote
I just finished watching the infamous video at youtube of the Alliance Panel. Everyone who comments here should at least GÇÿget the facts.GÇ¥ I was astounded by the pervasive use of so called GÇÿadultGÇÖ language and the obvious excessive use of alcohol. The Mittani is just a kid for crying out loud who barely looks old enough to drink. It is no secret that I despise the character The Mittani. The player however earns some begrudging respect for accepting responsibility for his conduct. MOST IMPORTANT is the culture CCP fosters that allows the language and conduct. You can be funny without cursingGǪit takes more effort. You can get laughs without being vulgar. Some would say the visual presentations bordered on sexual harassment as well. A ***** shaped picture of a ship I saw in another presentation spewing something is vulgar, offensive and inappropriate. I say grow up CCP, and ponder how this game I love is going to grow up besides ships, mods, Dust514, balancing and other content too. -á-áad astra per aspera |
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Pyfintlyn Lukqplm
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 03:17:00 -
[141] - Quote
People think this kind of thing is funny??? It's sad but people do kill themselves every day over bullshit like this. If one of your family killed themselves after something like this would you be bitching and moaning so much. Would you be saying way to go?Thanks for encouraging this behavior! No, you would not. So shut the **** up, grow up and stop acting like you are still 12. You don't need to give it too much thought. Wrong is wrong. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
193
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 09:08:00 -
[142] - Quote
Some issues I had raised in the other official thread about this joke:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:The EVE that CCP sells is a sandbox game where you can do anything. They by no means have ever, anywhere, sold a game where you can go on stage in their live event and use your limelight time to point and laugh at other players, let alone call them names and incite other players to harass them in game to drive them to suicide. They also do have rules in place about what is acceptable language (though it does seem they do not have the resources and/or interest to enforce those). That they let it go as far as actual reference to driving someone to death before they intervened is what should surprise people here - not that they did eventually do something. A sandbox is for building whatever you want and playing whatever games you like. There is no fixed plot you have to use and you can use the toys provided the way you like. But if you start calling other kids names and throwing the sand in their eyes, a kindergarten teacher is going to come and pick you up and put you on the timeout bench, and no amount of kicking and screaming about how it was your sand will save you. The only thing left to do at that point is to grow up and realize that despite having the freedom to play you do not have the freedom to bully. Darth Gustav wrote:First of all, did you see the names of the pilots singing their respective national anthems to the glee and delight of every nerd in Reykjav+¡k? Do you think CCP was laughing too? Because it sure looked like it. Or how about the slide which was vetted where an Eve player hinted at symptoms of mental instability and possible suicide? Do you think they let that go up on the screen because they want Eve to be Hello Kitty Online?
Were IPOL and the local police dispatched to this "victim's" home, as per CCP policy, when they became aware of his purported condition? Was anything done for nearly a week after this "reprehensible offense?"
Is it possible, however unlikely, that even in a state of drunken stupor Mittens was being allegorical? Is it remotely conceivable that he didn't genuinely want this person to die?
Did everybody in the presentation have their headsets on, laptops ready to blow this dude up and supposedly verify the IRL kill? Or were they at a location where this was unfeasible?
Did CCP, a tech-savvy firm with a historical penchant for cramming both of their feet in their mouth and going "nom nom nom" with regard to bad press think, even for a second, that broadcasting drunks for profit with no delay might not be a good idea? Did anybody at fanfest sign a waiver of their rights to free speech or even receive a verbal warning pertaining to the Q&A session and its potential consequences in-and-out-of game before the panel?
I just wonder if you can clear some of this up for we disenfranchised, since you obviously have a pretty firm grasp of what CCP has and has not done for the community that basically props up Iceland's entire economy. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Miranda Fluffbunny
Black Company Merc's The Aurora Shadow
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 10:21:00 -
[143] - Quote
I thought the punishment a bit harsh to be honest but I love the resulting drama and nerdrage.
Going to buy some plexes just to show my support of this glorious, drama filled game.
Wuv you CCP. |
InnerDrive
Shiva Initiative Mercenaries
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 10:28:00 -
[144] - Quote
Seriously guys , obviously mittens went to far. he admitted it and i fully agree with any sanctions taken. this is not in good spirit anymore.
We have never been allowed to try get someone to commit suicide.
Trying to harm someone in real life has allways been a bannable offense , its one the few things that we are not allowed to do in the sandbox type game eve is. and its unfortunate that it happens to be a CSM member that did it and got banned.
But afterall CSM members are also just players and they shoud still follow the same rules of respect for others. |
OMGFRIGATES WARPOUT
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 12:46:00 -
[145] - Quote
InnerDrive wrote:But afterall CSM members are also just players and they shoud still follow the same rules of respect for others.
After recovering slightly at DNS Black being refered to as (and I paraphrase) "the sober one" I think this is an important part of the discussion. No matter the self induced importance that a majority of the CSM seem to promote themselves and their actions with, they are still just 1 player in a game and they should be treated accordingly.
If anyone would have climbed the stage and called for the harrasement of (who they felt was) a mentally unstable person with any notion of 'they might commit suicide" that person would have been the proud owner of at the very least a 30 day ban. Given the situation where the one person that did it was personally invited by CCP while media and financial backers of the company were in presence the result shouldn't be a suprise to anyone.
In all I believe that absolutly nothing will change. I believe that Mittens will successfully run and win the following CSM election and be the resurrected leader of that panel and things will be back to "normal" in 1 years time. |
Lilliana Stelles
Nagrom Security Syndicate Flatline.
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 15:19:00 -
[146] - Quote
I support this decision. There was no clear way to respond to this, but I think CCP is doing the best that they can. Mittani apologized on his own accord, but the ban and rules changes are needed to show that not even CSM are immune to the terms of service.
Ultimately, CCP has been very generous by granting the CSM as much freedom as they have. It's entirely unnecessary and generous, and CCP has the right to remove any of that freedom. Ultimately, the game is their property; this isn't a player-run government.
This isn't an ideal solution, by any means, but it is the only solution I can see working in the long run. Most of us are adults on here, but within my alliance we have a member who's only 13. Very smart for a 13 year old, but still, we need to consider the example we set on Eve. It's nearly a public forum.
I'm sure that alliances can still find a way to give a humorous presentation without excessive alcohol and adult language. And I'm more than sure that goonswarm can survive without their CSM puppet for a month. (Funny how all these goons are yelling about democracy while they all voted for the same person) |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
93
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 15:26:00 -
[147] - Quote
I'm of the opinion that the 10058 voters who were cheated by CCP in this blatant attempt at ruining the game should vote with their wallets!
10058 people quitting this horrible game would be a clear victory for the outraged voters!
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Grumplestiltskin
Sleepless Premonition Imperium Honorius
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 15:52:00 -
[148] - Quote
Pallidum Treponema wrote:I'm of the opinion that the 10058 voters who were cheated by CCP in this blatant attempt at ruining the game should vote with their wallets!
10058 people quitting this horrible game would be a clear victory for the outraged voters!
Are you #*(@& kidding me? Because you voted for an ******* that got himself temporarily banned, you think you have to now quit the game? Everyone reading this post knows you are full of ****. If you quit it's because you are already tired of the game. Otherwise you will be back to playing as usual (albeit with added whine), because Eve is the best MMO on the market, and the only one of it's kind. 10000 people quitting just means everyone, including the quitters, lose.
God damn these idiots supporting such an ******* move by Mittens. You don't seem to get it...HE SUGGESTED GOADING A PERSON INTO RL SUICIDE AT AN OFFICIAL CCP EVENT. If you want to get mad, get mad at him for being an ass hat.
As for the "CCP cheated us out of votes" argument, if a politician breaks the law he can be removed from office. At best another election is called, but not necessarily before it would normally happen. You voted for someone who broke game law, deal with it. |
Bantara
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 16:00:00 -
[149] - Quote
Grumplestiltskin wrote:Are you #*(@& kidding me? Sir, I think you missed his sarcasm flag.
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Nlex
Domini Canium
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 18:38:00 -
[150] - Quote
It's only appropriate to ban people for violating TOS. CCP is completely right. |
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Demon Azrakel
Bite Me inc Exhale.
76
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 22:45:00 -
[151] - Quote
Seriously, most of the player base had no issue with the event setup itself or the comments made. We were rather happy about the setup, and some of the presentations were rather good, including the controversial presentation in question.
Remember who you are supposed to keep happy?
Sony?
The Gaming Media?
Soccer Moms?
no...
Think Incarna?
Who was unhappy?
What happened when those people were unhappy?
Is that what you want CCP?
Did you learn your lesson?
(apparently not) |
K1Vis
The Citadel Group Sentinel Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 02:32:00 -
[152] - Quote
He mixed RL and Eve. By telling people about the guys RL and then doing things in game to effect the guys RL he broke the rules. He left the Sandbox. In game leaders can act however they wish. But CSM members are a part of Eve outside NEw Eden and inside the sandbox also. They should act more professional than that. CCP has taken the CSM VERY seriously. Mitanni did not do the same. he seems to be a very intelligent person. I am sure he is aware that politicians are held accountable for there actions. |
Bantara
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 05:48:00 -
[153] - Quote
Demon Azrakel wrote:Seriously, most of the player base had no issue with the event setup itself or the comments made. We were rather happy about the setup, and some of the presentations were rather good, including the controversial presentation in question.
Remember who you are supposed to keep happy?(...)
While your character pic is freaking awesome, your logic fails. You are saying the same group of people who were upset at crap like Incarna will be the same people pleased with the current status of the Alliance panel and Fanfest in general. I personally know you do not have proof of that. |
Javier McPoopbeard
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
32
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 17:17:00 -
[154] - Quote
Quote:All powerpoint slides for the presentation were run by a CCP employee to make sure no obvious nudity or sexually explicit content was presentGÇöbut otherwise it is a very open forumGÇömuch more so than any other game company would dream of having.
Wasn't there a ***** pictured and a photograph covered in semen in MB3's presentation? |
Soldarius
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
194
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 22:46:00 -
[155] - Quote
Nao Oikawasan wrote:
My vote, as well as those of 17% of those who bothered to participate, were simply tossed in the trash?
I'm not sure that even the American Democratic machine in Chicago has ever been responsible for nullifying that large a voting block.
I would like to apply my vote to another character. I'm suspect others may as well.
The Republican party is responsible for far worse. So don't even go there. All the votes were counted and Mittani won the chairperson's seat. The simple fact is that your leader failed you because drinking is more important to him than your votes or support.
Also, 17 percent? lol, we are The 99 Percent! 99>17
"How do you kill that which has no life?" |
Zulran Hans
Refuge of Hope Lemniskate
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 10:08:00 -
[156] - Quote
While it is important for CCP to think about the voters who are unhappy with the decision, they also have to consider how this will affect the long-term image of EVE Online, as well as the hundreds of thousands other subscribers.
The Alliance Panel was meant to represent us, the player community. There we had among the best GÇ£athletesGÇ¥who are very good in the game to share with the public why EVE is enjoyable.
Of course, they also indirectly gave an impression on how the best EVE gamers are like outside the virtual universe, a glimpse of the culture of EVE community.
ThatGÇÖs why CCP should and have taken this extremely seriously.
His sincere public apology shows us that Alex is a good person, and undoubtedly one of the great players we have in EVE. The Mittani is a fascinating villain character that will be remembered for a very long time.
Even if we disagree that CCP has made the right call, they have made it. Let's stop exchanging angers towards other players and the developers.
LetGÇÖs instead learn from this mistake, and suggest things that will make the Alliance Panel better next time
This is a wake-up call for all of us. With the average playerGÇÖs age of 27-28 years old, we are quite a mature group of adults. Let's show that, as EVE players, while we are fun, we are also a respectable gaming community.
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Silath Slyver Silverpine
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 21:57:00 -
[157] - Quote
It's unfortunate, but I can see why CCP is taking this stance. And I can't blame them. The fact is that if they wish to be succesful they will have to bow to certain social standards and pressures. It sucks but in the end, they are a company and they want to make money. It's especially sad because I was recently telling my friend (Who plays WoW) how awesome EVE fanfest was. "Dude, they have a drinking game quiz and pub crawls. I don't see blizzcon doing that." It is my sincere hope that CCP tempers their reaction and doesn't go overboard. I understand that after the crapstorm Mittani's actions brought about they pretty much have to do something from a PR standpoint. But please, try to limit it to age checks on the streams, a few disclaimers, and a 30 second delay for 'bleeping out' extreme comments.
Basically, a goon decided to be a complete arse and ruin things for everyone else. Again.
And when I say goon here I mean the pitiful pricks that are so desperate for attention they'd rather have everyone hate them than be unknown. The kind of people that can't develop a meaningful identity in real life so they have to resort to identifying themselves as 'trolls', who 'drink pubbie tears' so that they can feel special and part of a community, even if that community is shunned, resented, and hated. Not necessarily every person affiliated with SA or goonswarm. The worst of the worst tend to ruin things for everyone. |
Sephiroth CloneIIV
Vitriol Ventures BLACK-MARK
85
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 00:09:00 -
[158] - Quote
I don't like that a popularly elected chairman was cast down for a bad joke while he was drunk to appease outside media interests, and a hypocritical vocal minority of people who never liked goons in the first place.
but.....
It is just a 30 day ban, so not the end of the world for him as a part of eve. The mittani, will still be the mittani. Possibly he could run for CSM again, assuming he would want to, judging from his resignation as the chair might not be the case, and is content to primarily running a alliance and collation.
Game goes on, what happened, happened.
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Avitus Caius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 07:21:00 -
[159] - Quote
Goons what a bunch of babies. Oh lordy lordy what will we do if they boycott eve and take their bs else where oh lordy what will we do. |
Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor Federal Consensus Outreach
793
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 00:38:00 -
[160] - Quote
I'm not asking this question to troll, I'm asking this question because I am genuinely interested in an honest answer.
Goons, tell me honestly. If this had happened to someone who wasn't Mittani - someone who wasn't a Goon at all, in fact - would any of you care as much as you do? Andreus Anthony LeHane Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
Animated Corporate Logos |
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Skullkandy Slag
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 01:38:00 -
[161] - Quote
So let me get this right. A bunch of you are outraged and unstably pissed because a dude was a complete d-bag and crossed a line so he got his hand slapped? Sandbox game doesn't discount all basic rules of treating other human beings with some measure of civilized behavior. How immature and socially stunted are you? |
Lee Sabot
hirr Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 10:06:00 -
[162] - Quote
Mittens had my vote. he screwed up, and resigned. my vote is now null, im somewhat annoyed by this, however i will remedy this by not voting for him next year
I respect CCP's right to protect its brand from the more... unkind elements of the sandbox. I sincerely hope that the extent of this rumoured censorship applies only to the you-tube and streamed elements of the game and that fanfest will remain the unrestricted hive of debauchery and excess we all know an love.
rock'n'roll rule number 1: never go on-stage drunk unless your the only person on the crew who cannot be fired. |
Paskis Robinson
Praetorian Shield
4
|
Posted - 2012.04.08 21:50:00 -
[163] - Quote
Skullkandy Slag wrote:So let me get this right. A bunch of you are outraged and unstably pissed because a dude was a complete d-bag and crossed a line so he got his hand slapped? Sandbox game doesn't discount all basic rules of treating other human beings with some measure of civilized behavior. How immature and socially stunted are you?
+1. This was an accident just waiting to happen. Give a sociopath a microphone and an audience and hope that the offence he creates isn't serious enough to stick to the company? And when he oversteps the line, act all surprised?? I think the only reason the victim's real name wasn't used is that they didn't know it. You don't get to encourage this sort of nonsense 364 days of a year then pass off responsibility when it suits you, CCP.
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Dar Egis
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.10 13:18:00 -
[164] - Quote
From Navigator's post:
"Traditionally, the Alliance Panel is an unfiltered forum for EVE Online alliance leaders to give presentations of their choosing. Historically, some panelists have chosen to use adult language and content during the panel, and the 2012 version was no different."
This points to the crux of the problem nicely. The use of the "f" words and similar words is NOT Adult Language. It is sophomoric, juvenile, or infantile language. Please stop calling it "Adult". It belongs in junior high bathrooms, if that. |
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