Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
So the Goons want to do a suicide interdiction of Jita.
In past 24 hours Jita had 45000 jumps.
Lets half that for number of unique players. That gives us 22,500 jumps.
Lets figure 10% of those are "high value targets" (I'd personally put the number at more like 20% but ok). That means an average of 94 high value jump ins an hour
Lets figure the goons want to kill at least 10% of that number. We'll make this 10 deaths an hours.
Jita is a 0.9 system. A ship can normally get off one, but not two, volleys before getting concorded.
A T2 fit tornado Alphas about 11K with all skills V. A T1 fit alphas around 8000. A freighter has 200,000 EHP requiring 25 ships for the kill. A freighter has less EHP than a properly tanked Orca (by far the most common ship type around Jita these days).
This gives a minimum T1 fit op tempo of at least 250 ships/hour or 6000 ships/day. Assuming a cost of 50m ship this will give us a daily burn rate of 3 Trillion isk/day. Some of this will be offset by loot drops. Lets say half. The goon supposedly have a monthly income of around 1.5 trillion. If they have saved for this for six months, then burn Jita could run for about six days.
Keep in mind this is assuming a low ball ship costs, max skills and a descent recovery rate. All of this to blow up one in every hundred ships heading into Jita.
Conclusion: In a fight between the goons and the market, bet on the market. |
OfBalance
Caldari State
308
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
You're assuming that your opponent cares about loosing isk. |
Liberty Eternal
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
38
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
OfBalance wrote:You're assuming that your opponent cares about loosing isk.
From what I've seen, Goons take this game way more seriously than anyone else. So it's likely that they do care about losing isk.
Also, all those ships etc have to be bought from somewhere. I wonder where... |
Rengerel en Distel
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
21
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
You can find killmails where it takes less than a dozen ships to kill a freighter. If their whole alliance and other griefers really want to destroy everyone, they'll do it. They'll make the isk back just controlling the markets in the other regions.
Don't assume bad intent, when stupidity is the much more likely cause. |
Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Liberty Eternal wrote:OfBalance wrote:You're assuming that your opponent cares about loosing isk. From what I've seen, Goons take this game way more seriously than anyone else. So it's likely that they do care about losing isk. Also, all those ships etc have to be bought from somewhere. I wonder where...
Wooo, business! :D (Though the guy I'm selling to has the right to only take part of the order, boo @ agreements). |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
329
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:In past 24 hours Jita had 45000 jumps.
Half it for jumping in, and jumping out. Probably not too many people passing through, so we can ignore that.
So a cap of 22,500 players.
But you'll have a bunch of those being freighters doing runs. so you'll have to reduce it further.
And if they start up an interdiction, people will stay away, rather than risk losing their freighter. BRs, maybe. Maybe.
So stocks will fall. So the number of people turning up will fall. (and people being ganked will stay way. And spread that word)
It's doable.
Will it last? Probably not. They move out, people return. The position is convenient. But it's doable short term. I don't doubt that. FuzzWork Enterprises http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Blueprint calculator and other 'useful' utilities. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
106
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 00:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
You're cute. |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
125
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
They will dilate the system on entry. My guess is they will hit the IV 4 station and anything they can get a lock on between dilation and that target. |
Sturmwolke
151
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 01:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's not really an issue per se. Just run logi escort fleet if you really need to get through. May even drum up temp business for corps does the escort service.
Amarr's not that far away anyway, it'll serve as backup hub in the remote case SHTF. They can't keep it up forever.
Now the next question here, who's profiting? |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
131
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm an the fence about its success.
Regardless, your analysis is way off. How much of what do they need to kill to shut down traffic? Answer that, then see if they can do it.
|
|
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:You can find killmails where it takes less than a dozen ships to kill a freighter. If their whole alliance and other griefers really want to destroy everyone, they'll do it. They'll make the isk back just controlling the markets in the other regions.
Yes, it take less than a dozen T2 fit ships to kill a freighter in a 0.5 system where each attacking ship can cycle its guns twice. That is a large difference from a 0.9 system with concord on grid. Also I am assuming T1 fits as I don't think an invention based supply chain can keep up with that op tempo (could be wrong on that).
The Mittani has called for 1,800 fit tornados. Assuming a T2 fit that will allow him to kill 90 freighter in Jita. That'll be an hour of glory but it'll hardly burn Jita to the ground. Hell, even if the goon decided to use those ships to get one ship/one shot kills on industrials they could not even kill 10% of one days total traffic through Jita.
Whomever thought this up failed to look at the jump totals for Jita on Dotlan.
|
Revii Lagoon
The Foreign Legion Test Alliance Please Ignore
53
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
~Jita shall burn~
~Deal with it~ |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Revii Lagoon wrote:~Jita shall burn~
~Deal with it~
Those jump numbers include a Tuesday and a patch. I expect your announcement will be good for Orca sales, nothing more. |
Lenrir Andven
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
67
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 02:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Liberty Eternal wrote:OfBalance wrote:You're assuming that your opponent cares about loosing isk. From what I've seen, Goons take this game way more seriously than anyone else. So it's likely that they do care about losing isk. Also, all those ships etc have to be bought from somewhere. I wonder where...
We are given money for getting our ships horribly burned and destroyed into space dust.
You are far...way far...from the truth citizen. |
Raiz Nhell
DEEP CORPS
54
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jita might not burn... But its going to be fun watching the fire starters...
I just hope that it actually happens, cause I have my doubts... I'm so carebear my Pod bleeds rainbow...
Beers + nullsec + dodgy fit = Loss mail |
Ave Volta
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
20
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
I don't care who's ships and being blown up at a greater rate. It's all good for the economy
Black Frog Logistics - Lowsec/Nullsec Logistics Services. Join ingame channel 'Black Frog' for more info.
|
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ave Volta wrote:I don't care who's ships and being blown up at a greater rate. It's all good for the economy
Did you really mean to post that under the corp/alliance ticker that you used? |
Shar Tegral
124
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ave Volta wrote:I don't care who's ships and being blown up at a greater rate. It's all good for the economy Jas Dor wrote:Did you really mean to post that under the corp/alliance ticker that you used? If she didn't I'll be happy to sign the statement.
Don't care whose ships are being blown up at a greater rate. Unlike real life, it actually is good for the economy.
|
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
106
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:It's not really an issue per se. Just run logi escort fleet if you really need to get through. May even drum up temp business for corps does the escort service.
Amarr's not that far away anyway, it'll serve as backup hub in the remote case SHTF. They can't keep it up forever.
Now the next question here, who's profiting?
You don't understand the concept of "massive alpha", do you?
|
enterprisePSI
86
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:31:00 -
[20] - Quote
I support any force that brings destruction in Eve. The tears of the many, outweight the tears of the few. Or the one.
-«enterprise-psi |
|
Skye Aurorae
No Bull Ships
222
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:24:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'm sure that goonswam will sell you 'jita gate licenses' so you can negotiate a payment for safe passage. Skye Aurora is a 7 year old Girl Who Wants to be on the CSM! Unfortunately, the Lawyers say you have to be 21, so..
|
Pippgirl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 08:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jita will burn. And it will be camped, so people will generally not undock or jump into system. We will also likely see that once Jita is camped, the campaign will spill over to the other tradehubs, at least in prime times. |
Emma d'Acques
Ortog Promethium Industries
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 09:25:00 -
[23] - Quote
Oh, Jita will burn, of that I am sure. I think it's more a question of "Will CCP be prepared for it? Will we finally have windows in our CQ's?" |
Sturmwolke
152
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 11:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
corestwo wrote: You don't understand the concept of "massive alpha", do you?
Depends on how the logis handle them, the "massive alpha" is not a guarantee. Also consider defensive fleet boosters.
|
Pippgirl
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 11:10:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:corestwo wrote: You don't understand the concept of "massive alpha", do you?
Depends on how the logis handle them, the "massive alpha" is not a guarantee. Also consider defensive fleet boosters.
Its pretty naive to think that anyone can fend off a massive alpha from angry angry CFC without being a major alliance/ coalition used to huuuuge fleet battles. If you are in their way, you will be toast. Simple. :) |
Sturmwolke
153
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 11:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pippgirl wrote:Its pretty naive to think that anyone can fend off a massive alpha from angry angry CFC ... Don't get me wrong. Tactics flow like water (if you understand that term). You're thinking in static terms.
|
Mookie Quantico
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 12:17:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:So the Goons want to do a suicide interdiction of Jita..
Beats the hell out of spinning... which is what most of Jita does anyway... I for one welcome this event if for no other reason than sheer entertainment value.
Mook
|
Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
123
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 13:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
Whilst 'Burn Jita' is a great idea, isn't the appropriate counter-tactic just for enemies of the Goons (null-sec and otherwise) to fly empty Orcas and T1 indy ships in and out of Jita all day long and collect a significant isk loss ratio win? |
Jarnis McPieksu
382
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 14:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
They do not need to suicide gank that many ships. Only enough that people stop jumping into Jita due to too high risk of a pricy Freighter/hauler loss.
Word will spread quickly, Jita commerce will be severely impacted and at that point those few clueless idiots that still do jump in can be ganked with fairly small effort.
(This of course all assumes Goons do what they claim they'll do... but otherwise it is fairly easy to predict the outcome of the planned action)
As to what happens after that will be the interesting bit... how long Goons keep it up? How will the market react? Will manufacturers and raw material producers start selling stuff at next door system? What will CCP do when the carebears (predictably) being their whine concert over the ganks?
|
Veeil
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 14:37:00 -
[30] - Quote
I like how you guys think you have a clue.
As much as this event will hurt myself and my own, +2 for bringing change to EVE |
|
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 14:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:So the Goons want to do a suicide interdiction of Jita.
In past 24 hours Jita had 45000 jumps.
Lets half that for number of unique players. That gives us 22,500 jumps.
Lets figure 10% of those are "high value targets" (I'd personally put the number at more like 20% but ok). That means an average of 94 high value jump ins an hour
Lets figure the goons want to kill at least 10% of that number. We'll make this 10 deaths an hours.
Jita is a 0.9 system. A ship can normally get off one, but not two, volleys before getting concorded.
A T2 fit tornado Alphas about 11K with all skills V. A T1 fit alphas around 8000. A freighter has 200,000 EHP requiring 25 ships for the kill. A freighter has less EHP than a properly tanked Orca (by far the most common ship type around Jita these days).
This gives a minimum T1 fit op tempo of at least 250 ships/hour or 6000 ships/day. Assuming a cost of 50m ship this will give us a daily burn rate of 3 Trillion isk/day. Some of this will be offset by loot drops. Lets say half. The goon supposedly have a monthly income of around 1.5 trillion. If they have saved for this for six months, then burn Jita could run for about six days.
Keep in mind this is assuming a low ball ship costs, max skills and a descent recovery rate. All of this to blow up one in every hundred ships heading into Jita.
Conclusion: In a fight between the goons and the market, bet on the market.
You forget about a) all the individuals wallets, b) all the non goon groups taking part, c) goons bet heavily on themselves on the market before anouncing anything so are probably raking in the isk at the same time, d) fear (and speculation) is the main weapon not 1400s, e) Huge numbers of high value targets will not be freighters requiring 25 tornados to die.
People will not jump into Jita if the expect to be ganked, that is the goons aim.
Finally if 1000 CFC plus whatever randoms join in can only pop 10 ships an hour they are doing something very wrong. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
6000 ships a day at 50 million each 300 billion anyway not 3 trillion, only out by a factor of ten |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sturmwolke wrote:corestwo wrote: You don't understand the concept of "massive alpha", do you?
Depends on how the logis handle them, the "massive alpha" is not a guarantee.
You don't undesrtand the concept of alpha at all in fact. The concept of alpha ignores logis.
|
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:13:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Ave Volta wrote:I don't care who's ships and being blown up at a greater rate. It's all good for the economy Did you really mean to post that under the corp/alliance ticker that you used?
Red Frog is Mittanis alt corp, they will be the only freighters alowed in and out of Jita. Prices will sadly have to rise however.
|
Darronis Olachenko
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:20:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think it was a big mistake for them to reveal their plans to begin with. If they really wanted maximum effect they shouldn't have said a word, or perhaps even just hinted at something but kept the details tight lipped. Now the only people that will be left in Jita when the end of April rolls around will be those completely oblivious. While I'm sure even that number will be higher than I expect, most people will just shrug and move to Amarr or whatever and continue going about their business. |
Roxwar
The Foreign Legion Test Alliance Please Ignore
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:24:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Rengerel en Distel wrote:You can find killmails where it takes less than a dozen ships to kill a freighter. If their whole alliance and other griefers really want to destroy everyone, they'll do it. They'll make the isk back just controlling the markets in the other regions.
Yes, it take less than a dozen T2 fit ships to kill a freighter in a 0.5 system where each attacking ship can cycle its guns twice. That is a large difference from a 0.9 system with concord on grid.
You do know concord can be pulled away from sitting on the station grid right by suicide decoys?
But regardless, your missing the point. It's not about how many frieghters will burn daily, it's about the number of frieghter pilots that will put off their market trip for fear of being one of those 4/5 kills per hour. Its the fear factor thats going to have the biggest impact you number crunching ******.
Personally, i cant wait heh http://roxwar.blogspot.com/ |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
57
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Darronis Olachenko wrote:I think it was a big mistake for them to reveal their plans to begin with. If they really wanted maximum effect they shouldn't have said a word, or perhaps even just hinted at something but kept the details tight lipped. Now the only people that will be left in Jita when the end of April rolls around will be those completely oblivious. While I'm sure even that number will be higher than I expect, most people will just shrug and move to Amarr or whatever and continue going about their business.
In the very unlikely event that would happen its not like amarr is far away from Jita is it? Pretty sure in U.s peak when there are more goons in JIta than non goons there will be sub cfleets elsewhere.
|
March rabbit
Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx
146
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:... That gives us 22,500 jumps.
Lets figure 10% of those are "high value targets" (I'd personally put the number at more like 20% but ok). That means an average of 94 high value jump ins an hour ...
how did you get from number of jumps to number of unique characters? You really think there is like 2250 unique freighters in game sitting around Jita and ready to warp each hour to Jita gate? 24 hours in a day gives us like 50k of freighters? |
Sevastian Liao
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:40:00 -
[39] - Quote
Darronis Olachenko wrote:I think it was a big mistake for them to reveal their plans to begin with. If they really wanted maximum effect they shouldn't have said a word, or perhaps even just hinted at something but kept the details tight lipped. Now the only people that will be left in Jita when the end of April rolls around will be those completely oblivious. While I'm sure even that number will be higher than I expect, most people will just shrug and move to Amarr or whatever and continue going about their business.
The completely oblivious make up a goodly percentage of the populace, sadly. If more people actually read the forums to stay informed we'd see less "I just got margin scammed how is that possible" threads.
If the Jita Burning goes through, I'll be taking bets on how many "How are they allowed to do that" threads are going to pop up.
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:They do not need to suicide gank that many ships. Only enough that people stop jumping into Jita due to too high risk of a pricy Freighter/hauler loss.
Word will spread quickly, Jita commerce will be severely impacted and at that point those few clueless idiots that still do jump in can be ganked with fairly small effort.
(This of course all assumes Goons do what they claim they'll do... but otherwise it is fairly easy to predict the outcome of the planned action)
As to what happens after that will be the interesting bit... how long Goons keep it up? How will the market react? Will manufacturers and raw material producers start selling stuff at next door system? What will CCP do when the carebears (predictably) being their whine concert over the ganks?
QFT. The numbers presented fail to take into account the largely predictable player reaction to a sustained lockdown, as has been mentioned. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 15:54:00 -
[40] - Quote
oh no it might be expensive
i hope the 100b of tech i sold this morning will help |
|
Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
123
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:oh no it might be expensive
i hope the 100b of tech i sold this morning will help
Putting the pleasure you will get from griefing the general population aside, aren't you just providing your enemies with a 'make Goons poorer' button as long as you stay in Jita? They can get 'pvp wins' just by getting you to lose ships via blowing up their lesser value ships. Kind of a reverse cash dispenser. I fully intend to get my own first pvp victories this way |
Roxwar
The Foreign Legion Test Alliance Please Ignore
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:oh no it might be expensive
i hope the 100b of tech i sold this morning will help
Bro, lend me a bill please, i have lots of disposable catalysts/thrashers to buy....
http://roxwar.blogspot.com/ |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
132
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:Putting the pleasure you will get from griefing the general population aside, aren't you just providing your enemies with a 'make Goons poorer' button as long as you stay in Jita? They can get 'pvp wins' just by getting you to lose ships via blowing up their lesser value ships. Kind of a reverse cash dispenser. I fully intend to get my own first pvp victories this way
Nobody has ever lost a war because of ISK or killboard stats.
The nullsec war game is all about morale; getting your guys to log in and x up for fleets, and making the enemy players not want to. A large element of Mittani's Goonswarm is regular demonstrations that they are not super-serious space faggots, while they spend the other 99% of their time acting like super-serious space faggots.
|
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
13
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:25:00 -
[44] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:oh no it might be expensive
i hope the 100b of tech i sold this morning will help Putting the pleasure you will get from griefing the general population aside, aren't you just providing your enemies with a 'make Goons poorer' button as long as you stay in Jita? They can get 'pvp wins' just by getting you to lose ships via blowing up their lesser value ships. Kind of a reverse cash dispenser. I fully intend to get my own first pvp victories this way
putting the pleasure you get from having sex aside, isn't it just sort of boring exercise |
Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
123
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
Darth Tickles wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:Putting the pleasure you will get from griefing the general population aside, aren't you just providing your enemies with a 'make Goons poorer' button as long as you stay in Jita? They can get 'pvp wins' just by getting you to lose ships via blowing up their lesser value ships. Kind of a reverse cash dispenser. I fully intend to get my own first pvp victories this way Nobody has ever lost a war because of ISK or killboard stats. The nullsec war game is all about morale; getting your guys to log in and x up for fleets, and making the enemy players not want to. A large element of Mittani's Goonswarm is regular demonstrations that they are not super-serious space faggots, while they spend the other 99% of their time acting like super-serious space faggots.
Still, won't it give their opponents a chance to boost their own morale, as they will only be losing isk as well - just less of it? Perhaps everyone gets to declare victory, making Burn Jita a selfless and altruistic gesture. |
Kara Roideater
Perkone Caldari State
123
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:29:00 -
[46] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Kara Roideater wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:oh no it might be expensive
i hope the 100b of tech i sold this morning will help Putting the pleasure you will get from griefing the general population aside, aren't you just providing your enemies with a 'make Goons poorer' button as long as you stay in Jita? They can get 'pvp wins' just by getting you to lose ships via blowing up their lesser value ships. Kind of a reverse cash dispenser. I fully intend to get my own first pvp victories this way putting the pleasure you get from having sex aside, isn't it just sort of boring exercise
And expensive! |
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
132
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 16:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote:Still, won't it give their opponents a chance to boost their own morale, as they will only be losing isk as well - just less of it? Perhaps everyone gets to declare victory, making Burn Jita a selfless and altruistic gesture.
Naw, not really.
Their current enemies aren't very creative in the image game as it is and what you're talking about is a bit of a stretch, so even if there is admittedly an opportunity there, they don't have the talent to exploit it. |
Driftfire
Northern Star Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:11:00 -
[48] - Quote
Going to buy a **** load of badgers - or the like. A low- skill alt with Clone in 4/4 and see how many gank a 300k isk ship.... |
Vasili Revenent
Flesh traders Inc
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:30:00 -
[49] - Quote
Meh.
People will adapt. Just like people adapted during the ice interdiction.
This will be almost darwinian in nature.
Whilst a jita interdiction will impact me in some small way I'm looking forward to seeing how this pans out.
Say what you like about the goons, they are 'adding content' to the game. |
Ave Volta
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
20
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 18:50:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:Ave Volta wrote:I don't care who's ships and being blown up at a greater rate. It's all good for the economy Did you really mean to post that under the corp/alliance ticker that you used?
Yes. The entire freight and logistics industry is dependent on the destruction that fuels the flames of industry.
Of course, it goes without saying, we would rather our ships survive.
Black Frog Logistics - Lowsec/Nullsec Logistics Services. Join ingame channel 'Black Frog' for more info.
|
|
CEO Rockhound
The Treehugger Corp
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 20:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
Vasili Revenent wrote:Meh.
People will adapt. Just like people adapted during the ice interdiction.
This will be almost darwinian in nature.
Whilst a jita interdiction will impact me in some small way I'm looking forward to seeing how this pans out.
Say what you like about the goons, they are 'adding content' to the game.
Your corp can also add content to the game. CFC Interdiction in Jita.
Your corp can do a 'Motsu Interdiction" along with some of your friends. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
94
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:04:00 -
[52] - Quote
Umn im down to 1.5B yhe umn did I miss the items or something? |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
82
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:34:00 -
[53] - Quote
I just want to clarify a few things. I'm not saying that Jita burning is morally or ethically wrong. I'm simply saying that I don't think you have the logistics to interdict the level of traffic going through Jita, and didn't properly run the numbers before thinking out this plan.
Nor am I implying that Burn Jita is going to be completely unsuccessful. Goons may well sow enough FUD that the market hub moves to Amar. The issue here though is that for a number of reasons a good chunk of market participants want to move the main trade hub to Amar.
|
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
480
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 22:49:00 -
[54] - Quote
This thread needs some Mass Attack:
"Fail attempt has failed to usurp the carebear level of don't care-edness. Carebears don't care so much they don't come to your space and they don't harass you and indeed they don't even fight back. That is the ultimate don't care, and there isn't anything you can do, short of dying of starvation, next to a pack of cheetos, that will demostrate a don't care level beyond that of the carebear." Ohh poor silly goon chillrens. Nobody in high sec cares about your plans to occupy jita like a bunch of dirty hippies. "...as if 10,058 Goon voices-ácried out and were suddenly silenced" |
Catho Sharn
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 23:05:00 -
[55] - Quote
Burn Jita is simply a disinformation campaign designed to redirect attention away from null sec operations.
|
Rutherford Rainman
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 04:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
All I know is that I'm going to be sitting outside 4-4 on april 28th in a cloaked ship watching the show. I hope the goons deliver. |
OfBalance
Caldari State
335
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 04:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
Catho Sharn wrote:Burn Jita is simply a disinformation campaign designed to redirect attention away from null sec operations.
There is a titan pilot who wishes it was a better distraction too. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
113
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 05:17:00 -
[58] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:I just want to clarify a few things. I'm not saying that Jita burning is morally or ethically wrong. I'm simply saying that I don't think you have the logistics to interdict the level of traffic going through Jita, and didn't properly run the numbers before thinking out this plan.
Nor am I implying that Burn Jita is going to be completely unsuccessful. Goons may well sow enough FUD that the market hub moves to Amar. The issue here though is that for a number of reasons a good chunk of market participants want to move the main trade hub to Amar.
The fact that you think you actually know "the plan" is cute. Also, it's "Amarr". Two "r".
OfBalance wrote:Catho Sharn wrote:Burn Jita is simply a disinformation campaign designed to redirect attention away from null sec operations.
There is a titan pilot who wishes it was a better distraction too. On the contrary, it was so much a distraction that he jumped instead of bridged! |
OfBalance
Caldari State
335
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 05:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
corestwo wrote:On the contrary, it was so much a distraction that he jumped instead of bridged!
Touche. |
Jarnis McPieksu
384
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 06:06:00 -
[60] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:I just want to clarify a few things. I'm not saying that Jita burning is morally or ethically wrong. I'm simply saying that I don't think you have the logistics to interdict the level of traffic going through Jita, and didn't properly run the numbers before thinking out this plan.
Look, just by saying "Goons will do X" will get a major reaction out of carebears. Just watch the markets over the next month or so, people will be stocking up in raw materials and preparing for potential inaccessibility of Jita for at least a week or two. All that without firing a single shot
Plan "Gank every freighter that jumps into Jita on an average day" is, as you stated, logistically unfeasible. Plan "gank every freighter that jumps into Jita on the 'Burn Jita' day" is easily feasible as the first few wrecks will cut down the number of pilots jumping in dramatically. The mere threat of "we'll gank every freighter jumping in" will scare off most of them. Goons can easily blockade every gate against any slow moving ships and Jita market volumes are so huge that covops haulers just can't take care of the business - and even those may be gankable if Goons just pile up enough people into the system (can't cloak if every square kilometer of space around gates is occupied by a Goon)
There is also the secondary issue of Jita population cap. Goons can easily blob out the system so that nobody is even able to jump in, tho such an act may be risky as it may give a reason for CCP to intervene.
|
|
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 06:26:00 -
[61] - Quote
corestwo wrote: The fact that you think you actually know "the plan" is cute. Also, it's "Amarr". Two "r".
Meh all I need to know is that 1. you have declared you want to make Jita burn; and 2. you are claiming that you have more power than the free market.
Personally, I think the unseen hand is going to gank you.
|
Emily Heapy
Sinclair Corporation
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 07:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
Liberty Eternal wrote:OfBalance wrote:You're assuming that your opponent cares about loosing isk. From what I've seen, Goons take this game way more seriously than anyone else. So it's likely that they do care about losing isk. ...
ahhhahahahahahaha
Best quote ever |
Roxwar
The Foreign Legion Test Alliance Please Ignore
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 08:47:00 -
[63] - Quote
Kara Roideater wrote: making Burn Jita a selfless and altruistic gesture.
Finally, somebody 'gets' the Goons
http://roxwar.blogspot.com/ |
Dirk Decibel
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 09:49:00 -
[64] - Quote
Lenrir Andven wrote:Liberty Eternal wrote:OfBalance wrote:You're assuming that your opponent cares about loosing isk. From what I've seen, Goons take this game way more seriously than anyone else. So it's likely that they do care about losing isk. Also, all those ships etc have to be bought from somewhere. I wonder where... We are given money for getting our ships horribly burned and destroyed into space dust. You are far...way far...from the truth citizen. Money created by bots mostly? Cuz, you know, "Goons don't **** Goons" and "we're not going to do CCP's police work for them"... |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
59
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 14:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote:I just want to clarify a few things. I'm not saying that Jita burning is morally or ethically wrong. I'm simply saying that I don't think you have the logistics to interdict the level of traffic going through Jita, and didn't properly run the numbers before thinking out this plan.
And your maths is terrible, you mistook 300 billion for 3 trillion and discounted everything other than goon tech income when calculating the available wealth to make this happen.
|
Darth Tickles
Dark Sun Consortium
138
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 15:12:00 -
[66] - Quote
Doddy wrote:And your maths is terrible, you mistook 300 billion for 3 trillion and discounted everything other than goon tech income when calculating the available wealth to make this happen.
Ya, this was pretty poor as far as analysis goes.
Again, I'm not convinced either way, but the initial argument adds next to nothing to the discussion.
I do like the point raised about the player cap in Jita. If I were involved in the planning, I'd be talking to CCP's "planned fight" department because piling in to exclude other people entering may cause some issues, and it could also hypothetically be done back at them with minimum coordination among Jita users. |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers Moar Tears
50
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 18:09:00 -
[67] - Quote
I would like to remind everyone that a resistance is being organized.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88910&find=unread
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Ajita al Tchar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
183
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 18:37:00 -
[68] - Quote
I wonder how many high sec zombies with indy / freighter alts have NO idea about Jita burning plans... I kind of hope it's a lot because that would be funny. Plus, pay attention to the game you play or whatever.
But anyway, player-created content is good, I support most of it (erring on the side of caution here). Quite curious to see how this one plays out, and oh btw, Jita WILL burn, but some will probably say that the fires weren't big enough |
Jas Dor
Republic University Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 19:42:00 -
[69] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Jas Dor wrote:I just want to clarify a few things. I'm not saying that Jita burning is morally or ethically wrong. I'm simply saying that I don't think you have the logistics to interdict the level of traffic going through Jita, and didn't properly run the numbers before thinking out this plan.
And your maths is terrible, you mistook 300 billion for 3 trillion and discounted everything other than goon tech income when calculating the available wealth to make this happen.
Yeah I was off by a factor of 10 when figuring a very large number. Meh, **** happens and it especially happens on numbers that you don't really care about.
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
345
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:37:00 -
[70] - Quote
Ajita al Tchar wrote:I wonder how many high sec zombies with indy / freighter alts have NO idea about Jita burning plans...
Probably like 90% of them. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
|
Kalipoli
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:07:00 -
[71] - Quote
A good number of them have no idea, I have been informing some of them. Others i will just let die.
For the Goons, please do this and unlike the usual efforts please put more into this one, I really dont want to be dissapointed by your effort to burn Jita, hell im a carebear and i will gladly fit a ton of ships to join you in the burning.
Kill kill kill and burn everything to the ground!
It will really help my margin's! plus jita has had its day in the sun its time to get people to spread out a little.
|
GreenSeed
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:34:00 -
[72] - Quote
enterprisePSI wrote:I support any force that brings destruction in Eve. cant make an omelette without blowing up a few freighters now, can we? |
Mathis Athins
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 23:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
Jarnis McPieksu wrote:Jas Dor wrote:I just want to clarify a few things. I'm not saying that Jita burning is morally or ethically wrong. I'm simply saying that I don't think you have the logistics to interdict the level of traffic going through Jita, and didn't properly run the numbers before thinking out this plan.
Look, just by saying "Goons will do X" will get a major reaction out of carebears. Just watch the markets over the next month or so, people will be stocking up in raw materials and preparing for potential inaccessibility of Jita for at least a week or two. All that without firing a single shot Plan "Gank every freighter that jumps into Jita on an average day" is, as you stated, logistically unfeasible. Plan "gank every freighter that jumps into Jita on the 'Burn Jita' day" is easily feasible as the first few wrecks will cut down the number of pilots jumping in dramatically. The mere threat of "we'll gank every freighter jumping in" will scare off most of them. Goons can easily blockade every gate against any slow moving ships and Jita market volumes are so huge that covops haulers just can't take care of the business - and even those may be gankable if Goons just pile up enough people into the system (can't cloak if every square kilometer of space around gates is occupied by a Goon) There is also the secondary issue of Jita population cap. Goons can easily blob out the system so that nobody is even able to jump in, tho such an act may be risky as it may give a reason for CCP to intervene.
Quoted because someone in this thread actually gets what this is about.
The CFC isn't doing this for KMs (well maybe the Grunts, but not politically).
They are not concerned about cost ratios or any of that math.
They are doing this as a political statement. They are doing this to flex their muscles and say, "Yep we can close off the games major trade hub just out of fear if we want to." It doesn't matter to them if you fly in there and get destroyed, or if you simply avoid Jita for however long they occupy it, they have made their political statement by "destroying Jita," that is destroying the major trade hub's ability to function normally.
As the quoted poster said, " just by saying 'Goons will do X' will get a major reaction out of carebears." This is all about fostering an image, so that any time Goons say they are going to do X the community lights up.
This is all about e-peen.
Honestly though I must say bravo to them, its things like this that give Eve its flavor. |
David Forge
Forge Enterprises
96
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 00:35:00 -
[74] - Quote
If this works I'm not giving any money for the next CONCORD Policeman's Ball. |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
508
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 11:11:00 -
[75] - Quote
Jas Dor wrote: Jita is a 0.9 system. A ship can normally get off one, but not two, volleys before getting concorded.
And this is assuming Goons will sit in just Jita just all day. Its the cluster focal point, but nothing says Goons will also have a heavy presence in Udema / Sivala gates where traffic is highest in EVE after Jita as every freighter ponders towards Jita. Good place to use less pilots to gank a single ship, meaning if you have "25" to gank a freighter that is another 2-3 individiual ganks in the same time span using the same amount of pilots = more ganks in the same amount of time span after a hours vs Jita. My money is on the gates as well towards Jita, not just Jita as well. Pretty sure Orcas will be going boom as well and anyone not able to fly a Tornado / Arttypoc / Maelstrom (last one at this point, don't know why you would) can help out in a destroyer / hurricane against the industrials. So shall Jita burn, so shall the ships destroyed last hour glow like embers in a fire! |
serras bang
Lucien Coven
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 11:37:00 -
[76] - Quote
i woulnd t be suprised if there just blowing smoke end of the day the guy got himself banned for eve i very much doubt ccp will allow them to impact on the player base of eve due to a personal vendeta towards ccp. |
Olivia Ashley
Large Hadron Collider Industries
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 04:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
Revii Lagoon wrote:~Jita shall burn~
~Deal with it~
You're a tool
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |