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Jaabaa Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.24 19:56:00 - [1] Edited by: Jaabaa on 24/09/2008 19:56:41 I'm thinking of converting my PC to use water cooling because the noise the fans are making is doing my head in (2 x 8800 GTS in SLI for starters). I've been looking at the Aquaduct 360 XT as an option because it means that I don't have to cut holes in my PC case. I guess that my main worry is about having water inside of my PC, but I would imagine that the technology has been around long enough so that its rid of any teething pains. Any of you have any experience with water cooling ? Any recommendations ? Will it really make my PC almost silent ? -- EVE Mobile Skill Planner V3 !! http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/
Jaabaa Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.24 19:56:00 - [2] Edited by: Jaabaa on 24/09/2008 19:56:41 I'm thinking of converting my PC to use water cooling because the noise the fans are making is doing my head in (2 x 8800 GTS in SLI for starters). I've been looking at the Aquaduct 360 XT as an option because it means that I don't have to cut holes in my PC case. I guess that my main worry is about having water inside of my PC, but I would imagine that the technology has been around long enough so that its rid of any teething pains. Any of you have any experience with water cooling ? Any recommendations ? Will it really make my PC almost silent ? -- EVE Mobile Skill Planner V3 !! http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.09.24 20:08:00 - [3] Edited by: Pwett on 24/09/2008 20:11:13 A) With a good pump it will be completely silent and proper planning it will be completely silent (SLI 8800GT myself) B) When going with tube sizes, I prefer 3/8" when cooling the SLI because it's a lot easier to fit. C) You should be able to buy all the barbs, clamps, and tubes at your local hardware shop which will save you TONS of money and also allows for way better customization D) I know you don't want to cut holes, but I highly, highly, highly, recommend an exterior mounted radiator - they do exhaust a ton of heat and it simply makes the system more efficient. I have my system running 2C above ambient with everything on. E) Invest in some nice fans - I recommend Scythe - as you will still want them on the radiator to optimize the cooling. By nice I mean airflow / dB ratio is good. /edit MOST important - You need a way to power the system without supplying power to the computer when you're checking for leaks. The most common mistake is poeple using the test PC power to test the system and getting water on a running mobo. Spilling water on a mobo isn't a problem so long as it's off and is completely dry before powered back on. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.09.24 20:08:00 - [4] Edited by: Pwett on 24/09/2008 20:11:13 A) With a good pump it will be completely silent and proper planning it will be completely silent (SLI 8800GT myself) B) When going with tube sizes, I prefer 3/8" when cooling the SLI because it's a lot easier to fit. C) You should be able to buy all the barbs, clamps, and tubes at your local hardware shop which will save you TONS of money and also allows for way better customization D) I know you don't want to cut holes, but I highly, highly, highly, recommend an exterior mounted radiator - they do exhaust a ton of heat and it simply makes the system more efficient. I have my system running 2C above ambient with everything on. E) Invest in some nice fans - I recommend Scythe - as you will still want them on the radiator to optimize the cooling. By nice I mean airflow / dB ratio is good. /edit MOST important - You need a way to power the system without supplying power to the computer when you're checking for leaks. The most common mistake is poeple using the test PC power to test the system and getting water on a running mobo. Spilling water on a mobo isn't a problem so long as it's off and is completely dry before powered back on. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony

CCP Whisper	Posted - 2008.09.24 20:31:00 - [5] I quite like the look of the Reserator 2. Even the older version of it looked awesome. But the thing about water-cooling seems to be that there are few systems around which will also cool the GPU memory so you're always going to need some fans running to generate airflow through the case. I'm considering a Cosmos S case for when I do take the water-cooling plunge. Looks good, plenty of room and a massive, low rpm fan in the side panel for shifting air quietly.

Jaabaa Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.24 20:34:00 - [6] Originally by: Pwett A) With a good pump it will be completely silent and proper planning it will be completely silent (SLI 8800GT myself) Is it easy to change a GPU air cooler for a water cooler ? Originally by: Pwett B) When going with tube sizes, I prefer 3/8" when cooling the SLI because it's a lot easier to fit. I never thought about the size of the tubes, I guess that that would be an issue, thanks for the heads up. Originally by: Pwett C) You should be able to buy all the barbs, clamps, and tubes at your local hardware shop which will save you TONS of money and also allows for way better customization D) I know you don't want to cut holes, but I highly, highly, highly, recommend an exterior mounted radiator - they do exhaust a ton of heat and it simply makes the system more efficient. I have my system running 2C above ambient with everything on. E) Invest in some nice fans - I recommend Scythe - as you will still want them on the radiator to optimize the cooling. By nice I mean airflow / dB ratio is good. The Aquaduct 360 XT is an external cooling tower with the pumps and fans already in it, so I think that the fans that you mentioned might already be in there. Do you know of another/better external cooling system ? Originally by: Pwett /edit MOST important - You need a way to power the system without supplying power to the computer when you're checking for leaks. The most common mistake is poeple using the test PC power to test the system and getting water on a running mobo. Spilling water on a mobo isn't a problem so long as it's off and is completely dry before powered back on. So basically, make sure that everything is water tight before powering up. Gotcha Another question, would I have to replace/top up water at regular intervals, or is it really a closed system when its up and running (i.e. maintenance free) ? -- EVE Mobile Skill Planner V3 !! http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.09.24 20:36:00 - [7] Edited by: Pwett on 24/09/2008 20:37:56 Edited by: Pwett on 24/09/2008 20:37:34 As long as you keep the radiator outside of the case, you can simply use some thermal glue and just attach memory heatsinks to the GPU memory. One exhaust fan running on low will be more than enough to keep the memory cool. It's 95% maintenance free. You'll need to top it off after you get everything primed, and it your tubes are subjected to a lot of sunlight you WILL need to flush and clean the system periodically. I do mine quarterly. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Jaabaa Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.24 20:41:00 - [8] Originally by: CCP Whisper But the thing about water-cooling seems to be that there are few systems around which will also cool the GPU memory so you're always going to need some fans running to generate airflow through the case. Didn't think about the GPU memory also being a heat source. Thanks for the input. On another side note, what about the power supply (PSU) ? It has a fan in there too. Can they be modded for water cooling or are there water cooled PSUs available that only have to be connected to the system ? -- EVE Mobile Skill Planner V3 !! http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.24 20:41:00 - [9] oil cool!!! dunk your pc in oil, and keep it around room temp
Jaabaa Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.24 20:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Pwett As long as you keep the radiator outside of the case, you can simply use some thermal glue and just attach memory heatsinks to the GPU memory. One exhaust fan running on low will be more than enough to keep the memory cool. So, if I understand you correctly, theres no need to think about water cooling the GPU memory ? A normal (large and slow) fan will suffice ? Originally by: Pwett It's 95% maintenance free. You'll need to top it off after you get everything primed, and it your tubes are subjected to a lot of sunlight you WILL need to flush and clean the system periodically. I do mine quarterly. Flush means replacing the water in the system and such, right ? Cool, I can live with doing that every 3 months or so, it shouldn't be too much of a hassle. "subjected to a lot of sunlight", lol, what ? I play EVE -- EVE Mobile Skill Planner V3 !! http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/

Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.09.24 20:48:00 - [11] Edited by: Pwett on 24/09/2008 20:48:48 For obvious reasons, I recommend NOT watercooling Powersupplies. If you do buy a new one, I highly, highly, highly, suggest Fortron Source Power Supplies. And unless you're also watercooling your system memory, your northbridge and your southbridge, and your hard drives, you're ALWAYS going to need airflow through the case. But if the above is all you're cooling from within the case, then with half-decent heatsinks, a single fan will be more than enough to keep the case within a decent range of ambient. /edit You can find little heatsinks that you can simply 'glue' to the GPU memory using thermal adhesive. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony

CCP Whisper	Posted - 2008.09.24 20:50:00 - [12] Originally by: Jaabaa On another side note, what about the power supply (PSU) ? It has a fan in there too. Can they be modded for water cooling or are there water cooled PSUs available that only have to be connected to the system ? There are some passively cooled PSU's on the market but they tend to only supply under 550W. These days though PSU fans are pretty quiet, especially the ones with 14cm fans in them. In fact one of those might be enough to draw the leftover heat out of the case, but I would not bet totally on it. I have 80mm Akasa Amber fans in my current case and can highly recommend them. Around 1200 rpm they are all but silent yet still shift a lot of air.

Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.09.24 20:54:00 - [13] Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 24/09/2008 20:54:54 Actually, if you want to splurge a little, there are Water Cooled PSUs on the market. They're not common, i'll admit, but they exist. Here is a link to a review of one A word of warning though, the pricetag of that PSU alone will buy you a mid-range PC. Considering it got a [H]OCP Gold, it's a very good power supply. (for a little fun, read their testing methodology. They actually expect more PSUs to fail the tests than to survive them)
Jaabaa Minmatar Dental Drilling Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.24 21:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Meiyang Lee Actually, if you want to splurge a little, there are Water Cooled PSUs on the market. They're not common, i'll admit, but they exist. Here is a link to a review of one A word of warning though, the pricetag of that PSU alone will buy you a mid-range PC. Warning heeded, $625, ouch, but it does look like a fine PSU though. Maybe a large slow case fan doesn't seem like a problem Originally by: Meiyang Lee Considering it got a [H]OCP Gold, it's a very good power supply. (for a little fun, read their testing methodology. They actually expect more PSUs to fail the tests than to survive them) Yeah, I noticed. I wish I could torture hardware like these guys do -- EVE Mobile Skill Planner V3 !! http://evemsp.sourceforge.net/
Atomos Darksun Infortunatus Eventus Obsidian Empire	Posted - 2008.09.24 21:13:00 - [15] If you can hear your fans you're not playing the music loud enough. Originally by: Amoxin My vent is talking to me in a devil voice... Atomos' Guide to Forum Flaming
Vabjekf	Posted - 2008.09.24 21:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Atomos Darksun If you can hear your fans you're not playing the music loud enough. I like to play in absolute silence with all sounds turned off, to make flying my internet spaceship as realistic as possible.
Norwest Prima Civitas	Posted - 2008.09.25 01:50:00 - [17] Edited by: Norwest on 25/09/2008 01:50:57 About the only bit of (admittedly simple) advice I can recommend, from an experience a friend had, don't mix metals! Go all copper or all aluminum. Other wise one will corrode, and deposit itself in an oxide on the other; severely weakening your system at one point, and clogging it another. Darn chemistry ruining our toys.... Edit: for spelling... ***** Rule 27: 'Don't be afraid to be the first to resort to violence.' -The Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates [schlockmercenary.com]
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2008.09.25 02:08:00 - [18] Regaurdless of what cooling system you use you can pick up non-conductive cooling products that you do not need to dilute. Eg: Fluid XP I personally use this and it works great. Non-conductive / toxic / corrosive and its bio degradable... its even listed with the FDA as food safe... though im not sure i'd wanna do that... The kit i use is a custom mod'd corsair nautilus 500 150ish for the unit 20 for the high flow fan 40 for a new rad and 60 for a new high flow pump... Originally by: CCP Abraxas Her boyfriend's way hot, too; tall and tanned. And I say this as a very hetero male who doesn't ever dream of the man on cold, dark nights.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.09.25 03:06:00 - [19] Ive never understood water cooling. I mean I get that its useful for extreme cooling, but I could never understand the idea that having water so close to raw electronics, espessially 1000 USD + electronics.... Isnt there a risk of condonsation or something occuring in the summer time or something? -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.25 03:16:00 - [20] Originally by: Jacob Mei Isnt there a risk of condonsation or something occuring in the summer time or something? Actually, yes. One numbskull idiot of a friend of mine invested in watercooling, in an airconditioned room, in the tropics where humidity goes no lower than 80%. Recipe for disaster right there. Suffice to say, he had to buy a completely new PC after that ordeal. -

Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.09.25 03:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Originally by: Jacob Mei Isnt there a risk of condonsation or something occuring in the summer time or something? Actually, yes. One numbskull idiot of a friend of mine invested in watercooling, in an airconditioned room, in the tropics where humidity goes no lower than 80%. Recipe for disaster right there. Suffice to say, he had to buy a completely new PC after that ordeal. Well then ill ask the obvious, why is it becoming such a big thing if it runs the risk of frying the computer? I mean I cant see the point in risking someones rig when a few fans will do the trick and maybe opening the case a few times a air and using a can of air on the components. -------------------------------- To borrow a phrase: Players who post are like stars, there are bright ones and those who are dim.
Kazuma Saruwatari Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.25 04:26:00 - [22] Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 25/09/2008 04:27:08 cause its the "in" thing he says. Quiet cooling solution and all that shit. ** the "in" thing, I say. If I wanted a fricking cool running case, I'd use The NZXT Tempest. ** being quiet, I wanna hear my PC hum with power (from the fans, not from overvoltage >_< )! 2 120mm fans + 2 140mm(!) fans coming with the case. Its a fricking wind tunnel vortex in a case! -
Reven Cordelle Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.25 09:52:00 - [23] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 25/09/2008 04:27:08 cause its the "in" thing he says. Quiet cooling solution and all that shit. ** the "in" thing, I say. If I wanted a fricking cool running case, I'd use The NZXT Tempest. ** being quiet, I wanna hear my PC hum with power (from the fans, not from overvoltage >_< )! 2 120mm fans + 2 140mm(!) fans coming with the case. Its a fricking wind tunnel vortex in a case! Thats all well and good if you don't have your PC anywhere near you, or... don't rely on your sound that much. I thought that, Antec 900 case... alas, fan hum is not good at night when volumes are low, or when you're doing intensive work. That and my machine sits on the desk quite nearby. I stuck a small watercooling loop into my machine after installing a new processor. Realised the Black Athlons run a touch warm, a CPU loop reduced noise nicely and it idles at around 28c, though i've seen it hit 50c under load. Then again, i'm using a fully case-contained single rad loop. So its pretty effective for such a compact setup.

CCP Whisper	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:09:00 - [24] Personally I want to water-cool my PC in order to reduce the noise in the house. Both my and my girlfriend's desks are on the large landing upstairs which means when both our machines are running (which they usually are 24-7) there is a constant background hum of fans and air rushing noises. I figure watercooling my CPU and GPU will go some way to reducing this. My northbridge already has a passive heatsink cooler so that's ok as long as I have some air still circulating through the case, which I would still want to maintain for harddrives and GPU memory anyway.

Ethidium Bromide Amarr ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.25 10:12:00 - [25] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Edited by: Kazuma Saruwatari on 25/09/2008 04:27:08 cause its the "in" thing he says. Quiet cooling solution and all that shit. ** the "in" thing, I say. If I wanted a fricking cool running case, I'd use The NZXT Tempest. being quiet, I wanna hear my PC hum with power (from the fans, not from overvoltage >_< )! 2 120mm fans + 2 140mm(!) fans coming with the case. Its a fricking wind tunnel vortex in a case! for real cool cooling you need 2 250mm fans! glow in the dark cooling Originally by:** George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.09.25 16:13:00 - [26] The bigger the fan you install the quieter they'll be, since they can rotate slower while still moving the same amount of air. Probably the best solution to the noise issue, a 120mm or 140mm PSU fan will usually be almost noiseless, especially compared to the hum of the pumps in your cooling loops. If you really want to go for broke you can always go for submergence cooling, but that's a lot more work. From what I've seen of those on [H] they work amazingly well, but they are a lot of work and replacing parts is a pain.
Straight Chillen Gallente Solar Wind	Posted - 2008.09.25 16:34:00 - [27] if your feeling really crazy, get a solid plexi-glass case and caulk all the gaps and vents on the box, fill it with mineral oil, and you will never have a cooling problem again. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.09.25 17:41:00 - [28] Originally by: Straight Chillen if your feeling really crazy, get a solid plexi-glass case and caulk all the gaps and vents on the box, fill it with mineral oil, and you will never have a cooling problem again. As I said in the post above yours. Just need to mod all the internal fans to rotate slower so they move the oil around rather than burn out their motors after 10 seconds and you will need a way to transfer heat out of the oil.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.09.25 17:47:00 - [29] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Actually, yes. One numbskull idiot of a friend of mine invested in watercooling, in an airconditioned room, in the tropics where humidity goes no lower than 80%. Recipe for disaster right there. Suffice to say, he had to buy a completely new PC after that ordeal. I run 5 water cooled PCs in Chicago where humidity is consistently around 95% in the summer with temps near 90F. Granted I never turn my computers off; but condensation is not an issue. Using an air conditioner will actually LOWER the chance for condensation problems because it lowers environmental humidity. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Straight Chillen Gallente Solar Wind	Posted - 2008.09.25 17:51:00 - [30] also i dont know if its been said yet, but if you use distilled water, then you wont have to worry about it frying your system if it leaks. Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~Saint

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