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Author	Topic
Manivald Kostaja	Posted - 2008.09.27 23:33:00 - [1] Some guy insisted that cnr would double isk/hour (against serpentis) rate when compared to navy mega? Can someone confirm is this is true or not?
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.09.27 23:34:00 - [2] true its best ship in game missiles are the best *1
Gorith	Posted - 2008.09.27 23:41:00 - [3] I somehow don't see that. cruise CNRs are just easier but they pump out lackluster dps unless pimped out pretty hard. now if youve got the money and skills to fit a proper torp CNR (and yes its possible) then its likely you might double your income. but a torp golem would be easier and cheaper to fit up right and you wouldnt be losing much DPS compared to a torp CNR and you would have a better tank
Strill	Posted - 2008.09.28 00:15:00 - [4] Edited by: Strill on 28/09/2008 00:14:52 Originally by: Gorith I somehow don't see that. cruise CNRs are just easier but they pump out lackluster dps unless pimped out pretty hard. 7 T2 torp launchers and 3x T2 ballistic control units with max skills gets you 963 DPS. Is that not enough for you?
Waxau The Fated	Posted - 2008.09.28 00:23:00 - [5] Originally by: Strill Edited by: Strill on 28/09/2008 00:14:52 Originally by: Gorith I somehow don't see that. cruise CNRs are just easier but they pump out lackluster dps unless pimped out pretty hard. 7 T2 torp launchers and 3x T2 ballistic control units with max skills gets you 963 DPS. Is that not enough for you? good luck fitting a decent mission tank with that.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2008.09.28 00:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Strill Edited by: Strill on 28/09/2008 00:14:52 Originally by: Gorith I somehow don't see that. cruise CNRs are just easier but they pump out lackluster dps unless pimped out pretty hard. 7 T2 torp launchers and 3x T2 ballistic control units with max skills gets you 963 DPS. Is that not enough for you? It's pretty hard to fit 7 torp launchers on a cruise CNR, though. Gorith made the point about torp CNRs putting out decent DPS separately.
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2008.09.28 00:41:00 - [7] Originally by: Manivald Kostaja Some guy insisted that cnr would double isk/hour (against serpentis) rate when compared to navy mega? Can someone confirm is this is true or not? Implausible at best. Serps throw a lot of defenders out to ruin your day. Ravens (and CNRs) are nice in that you can load FOFs when you get damped endlessly and you have really nice range and hit rate if you're using cruises VS tracking issues with a turret ship. However, CNRs don't toggle the iWin button. A Navy Mega can do very well for missions if you use its strengths and don't try to hit tiny ships upclose using your 425 mm rails... As always, it's situational. Personally, I switch between a Raven and a CNR for most missions, but I do because I'm lazy. Not because my CNR does 'over 9000' damage. Your 'guy' is talking out of his ass. Vs serps, missile boats are handicapped because of defenders, and rail boats are also viable.
Zo5o Gallente Longcat is Long	Posted - 2008.09.28 01:07:00 - [8] Edited by: Zo5o on 28/09/2008 01:10:04 A well-piloted 425mm railgun/sentry drone Navythron will complete serp missions more quickly than a well-piloted cruise CNR. It should out-dps CNR on paper, in EFT, BEFORE defenders are even factored in. Just make close-orbiting cruisers priority targets to take out at range, and take out frigs at range or use drones on them. Minimizing transversal isn't very difficult... in most cases it doesn't even require an afterburner if you kill quickly enough.
Gorith	Posted - 2008.09.28 01:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Strill Edited by: Strill on 28/09/2008 00:14:52 Originally by: Gorith I somehow don't see that. cruise CNRs are just easier but they pump out lackluster dps unless pimped out pretty hard. 7 T2 torp launchers and 3x T2 ballistic control units with max skills gets you 963 DPS. Is that not enough for you? you sir didn't read my post properly I said CRUISE CNRs have lackluster dps I didn't say anything about torps in the part you quoted
Gorith	Posted - 2008.09.28 01:59:00 - [10] cruise CNR with 3x DG bcs and 7x DG cruise launchers. flinging faction ammo has 653 DPS with max skills factor in a defender taking out 1 missile per volley (and thats being generous to the CNR) it drops to 560 DPS a navy mega with 3x Navy mfs and 7x 425mm navy rails throwing DG antimatter has 603 DPS with max skills now i have to go was the dirty EFT warrior feel off

Jin Entres Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams	Posted - 2008.09.28 02:29:00 - [11] Originally by: Gorith cruise CNR with 3x DG bcs and 7x DG cruise launchers. flinging faction ammo has 653 DPS with max skills factor in a defender taking out 1 missile per volley (and thats being generous to the CNR) it drops to 560 DPS a navy mega with 3x Navy mfs and 7x 425mm navy rails throwing DG antimatter has 603 DPS with max skills now i have to go was the dirty EFT warrior feel off You're ignoring a few things, though: ò Rails miss, missiles don't ò Rails do fixed damage types. Missiles can choose and therefore the DPS after resistances is much better ò Rails use a lot of cap which undermines tanking ability One thing I'll give you, though: rails pop frigs from afar while missiles do low damage to them. Want to know what kills stuff fast? Nightmare. 4 T2 Tachyons + 3 HS II w/ AN Multifreq deals out 866 DPS at 33+25 and 502 with Aurora at 119+25. Even with Mega Pulses you'll get 730 DPS with Scorch at 45+10. And it gets a tracking bonus on top. ----------------------
Warrio Southern Cross Incorporated Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.28 02:59:00 - [12] Originally by: Jin Entres Want to know what kills stuff fast? Nightmare. Bringing the Nightmare into this is like letting Mike Tyson loose in a kids boxing tournament. I mean sure, you'll win and it would be hilarious to watch but it's not very fair. sXe
Astral Momentum	Posted - 2008.09.28 03:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Gorith cruise CNR with 3x DG bcs and 7x DG cruise launchers. flinging faction ammo has 653 DPS with max skills factor in a defender taking out 1 missile per volley (and thats being generous to the CNR) it drops to 560 DPS a navy mega with 3x Navy mfs and 7x 425mm navy rails throwing DG antimatter has 603 DPS with max skills now i have to go was the dirty EFT warrior feel off Hummm, With 3 x GN Mag Stabs and 7 x T2 425's using DG antimatter I get just shy of 670 DPS with 0 dmg implants, not sure how you got to 603 dps. . Now witht that setup, your are going thru targets like crazy, by the time the cruise 's hit, the rails are already on the second or third target or more (bigger than frigs etc, as frigs insta pop to 1 gun). The Mega also allow for more Drone options as well, 3 x Ogre II's and 2 x HH II's brings the total dps up to 930ish. All this with a decent tank (When you poping ships that fast, most times you have waaay more tank than you need). Of course, if you then want to do a Trop Raven vs a Navy Mega Blaster Setup (Angel Missions are great for Blaster Mega's) Defenders were the main reason I ditched Crusie lvl 4's, and since swapping over, mission run times are so much faster.
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.28 04:01:00 - [14] it's too hard to say. for the most part, pve is just easier in a raven. however i would have to say, if your doing belt work vs plex/missions, the FASTEST ship to pve in is a sniper. so, navy mega/rohk/tempest/mael/whatever, does have the potential to outperform. but then your a hundred miles from your loot so...
NoNah	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Astral Momentum Originally by: Gorith cruise CNR with 3x DG bcs and 7x DG cruise launchers. flinging faction ammo has 653 DPS with max skills factor in a defender taking out 1 missile per volley (and thats being generous to the CNR) it drops to 560 DPS a navy mega with 3x Navy mfs and 7x 425mm navy rails throwing DG antimatter has 603 DPS with max skills now i have to go was the dirty EFT warrior feel off Hummm, With 3 x GN Mag Stabs and 7 x T2 425's using DG antimatter I get just shy of 670 DPS with 0 dmg implants, not sure how you got to 603 dps. . Now witht that setup, your are going thru targets like crazy, by the time the cruise 's hit, the rails are already on the second or third target or more (bigger than frigs etc, as frigs insta pop to 1 gun). The Mega also allow for more Drone options as well, 3 x Ogre II's and 2 x HH II's brings the total dps up to 930ish. All this with a decent tank (When you poping ships that fast, most times you have waaay more tank than you need). Of course, if you then want to do a Trop Raven vs a Navy Mega Blaster Setup (Angel Missions are great for Blaster Mega's) Defenders were the main reason I ditched Crusie lvl 4's, and since swapping over, mission run times are so much faster. Kids, this is what EFT does to you. DG antimatter in missions? Come on... The mega has drone bay enough for 5 heavies, why not use it? You can set up a quite decent torp cnr, it won't have excellent range nor tank, but few missions require more than 60-65k torp range(it's a bit longer if they're approaching you, a bit less if they're not), this is especially true for close range factions such as serpentis and angel. And you will gain a few extra percent damage by having the exact damagetype. This will also make defenders entirely irrelevant. Parrots, commence! Postcount: 848263
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.09.28 11:55:00 - [16] Originally by: Jin Entres Originally by: Gorith cruise CNR with 3x DG bcs and 7x DG cruise launchers. flinging faction ammo has 653 DPS with max skills factor in a defender taking out 1 missile per volley (and thats being generous to the CNR) it drops to 560 DPS a navy mega with 3x Navy mfs and 7x 425mm navy rails throwing DG antimatter has 603 DPS with max skills now i have to go was the dirty EFT warrior feel off You're ignoring a few things, though: ò Rails miss, missiles don't ò Rails do fixed damage types. Missiles can choose and therefore the DPS after resistances is much better ò Rails use a lot of cap which undermines tanking ability One thing I'll give you, though: rails pop frigs from afar while missiles do low damage to them. Want to know what kills stuff fast? Nightmare. 4 T2 Tachyons + 3 HS II w/ AN Multifreq deals out 866 DPS at 33+25 and 502 with Aurora at 119+25. Even with Mega Pulses you'll get 730 DPS with Scorch at 45+10. And it gets a tracking bonus on top. I used a Navy Mega before my Kronos, Damage is very simlar(extra Sentry) and If you get good skills and know what to shoot first and keep range/fit a good Web(depends on the layout of the Mission) Cruise CNR absolutly don¦t outdoo a Navy Mega, vs Kin/Thermal week rats not a chance in hell. If you need lots of Tanking you have the wrong setup on the Navy Mega, mine did L4 with a Med Repper(needet the CPU for a Drone Link) and a mix of 3 ANP/Faction Hardners absoutly fine. 3 Faction MFS, Damage Implants, T2 425mm Rails, dual Tracking Comps, Sentrys and a Drone Link realy make this ship great and very flexible with Range. Since I got a Abaddon(that easy tops your Nightmare DPS and range with a Puls fitting, mostly by Imps and Faction HS) in a real Mission both ships perform preaty good, and not that diffrent like the DPS number would say(all Depends on Range, Resists, NPC Types, Mission Layout etc.). To make it short Navy Mega is a very nice Ship, but don¦t overdo the Tank, that makes it sucky, gank fitted it beats the CM CNR 9/10 times, there is not need for switching. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.28 12:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Jin Entres You're ignoring a few things, though: ò Rails miss, missiles don't ò Rails do fixed damage types. Missiles can choose and therefore the DPS after resistances is much better ò Rails use a lot of cap which undermines tanking ability Only an issue when they get into orbit, and then only really an issue against HAC type NPCs. Drones kill the normal cruisers fast enough when they get into orbit. Not an issue vs serpentis Cap usage isnt big issue, my navy mega can easily perma run all guns and a LAR, with a second LAR being able to run for quite long before i am out of cap. And rails can do full damage against small targets.
Tanith YarnDemon	Posted - 2008.09.28 12:14:00 - [18] Originally by: Furb Killer Originally by: Jin Entres You're ignoring a few things, though: ò Rails miss, missiles don't ò Rails do fixed damage types. Missiles can choose and therefore the DPS after resistances is much better ò Rails use a lot of cap which undermines tanking ability Only an issue when they get into orbit, and then only really an issue against HAC type NPCs. Drones kill the normal cruisers fast enough when they get into orbit. Not an issue vs serpentis Cap usage isnt big issue, my navy mega can easily perma run all guns and a LAR, with a second LAR being able to run for quite long before i am out of cap. And rails can do full damage against small targets. Indeed. Cap use is a moot argument. If they both tank the mission, forget about cap, tank etc etc. It's pointless to have more than you need. As for damage you can't have enough(almost true for anything else offensive, such as tracking sig resolution, explosion velocity etc etc). Then again, comparing a CNR and ignoring torps is like comparing with a blasterthron. Torps are VITAL.
SystemaX1	Posted - 2008.09.28 12:15:00 - [19] CNRs are very realiable ships... Thats if you have the skills to outfit them propperly. There Very good mission ships.They can sure take a bit of a fair pounding in a level 3 and 4 missions once outfitted.. The Navy Mega i dont have much experiance with that but as said before Railguns suck. Missels are the best way to go :) But if you decide to go with a megathron id suggest putting 2 cruise or even heavy launchers on it. But kind of have it as a support vessel for pvp.
Tanith YarnDemon	Posted - 2008.09.28 12:20:00 - [20] Originally by: SystemaX1 CNRs are very realiable ships... Thats if you have the skills to outfit them propperly. There Very good mission ships.They can sure take a bit of a fair pounding in a level 3 and 4 missions once outfitted.. The Navy Mega i dont have much experiance with that but as said before Railguns suck. Missels are the best way to go :) But if you decide to go with a megathron id suggest putting 2 cruise or even heavy launchers on it. But kind of have it as a support vessel for pvp. Read this. Then ignore it, forget it, and consider it a rule of thumb you never ever want to follow. Rails are better than missiles in just about every aspect, as long as you control what situations you end up in even the slightest.

Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.28 12:21:00 - [21] System, go away please, ty. Most CNR pilots fit cruise missiles. Golem is a real torp ship, CNR not.
Tanith YarnDemon	Posted - 2008.09.28 12:27:00 - [22] Originally by: Furb Killer System, go away please, ty. Most CNR pilots fit cruise missiles. Golem is a real torp ship, CNR not. Agreed. Though not fitting torps is nothing but a waste. Comparing a ship after what most people do is just stupid imho. You can without to much of a stretch rush around in a cnr, with torps doing any mission around, not all but most will be quite a bit faster than with a cruise raven aswell. Others will be WAAY faster. I'm personally struggling with a decent CNR setup as we speak, but the rather poor one I have to date, is still far superior to the cruise one for the missions suitable for it.
Coltach SlingDraw Corp	Posted - 2008.09.28 20:31:00 - [23] Thing with comparing raven variants and gunships is its apples and oranges really. The CNR is, bar none, the best mission ship in eve IF ITS FIT RIGHT! Its most powerful feature, almost universally overlooked, is it hits every time. That, along with understanding explosion radius, is the key to missions. Skipping the gory details, a standard cruise missile has an explosion radius of 300m. Your garden variety mission BS has equal or larger signature radius, meaning it takes full damage from the missile, nothing is wasted. Your garden variety mission cruiser on the other hand has a sig rad of about 140m. Varies a bit from one to the next. That means that more than half the destructive capability of a cruise missile is lost. Just bleeds off into space. If you want to know how vitally important this is, look at a stealth bomber. Those get a massive bonus to explosion radius, effectively concentrating the damage of the cruise missile into the sig rad range of frigates. The Golem does the same, but in reverse. Using painters it raises the sig rad of smaller ships, hitting them for more damage. Now the gravy: The CNR has no painter bonus, but it has grid and cpu to spare, and, crucially, it has 3 rig slots. Thus Warhead Rigor Catalyst I becomes the ultimate mission rig Put 3 of these in a CNR, get Guided Missile Precision up to 4 or better yet 5 and your cruise missiles now have a sig rad of around 140m. Like those garden variety mission cruisers, get the picture? That means you are now hitting cruisers for the full damage potential of the cruise missile and you are hitting them every time you fire, and from whatever your max lock range is don't forget (assuming fair missile skills). Yes you'll lose some missiles to defenders, its not that big of a deal in the long run. Even better, you hit destroyers at nearly full too, and frigs get a hefty bang on the noggin. Taking out an NPC intercepter with 2 vollies, 13 - 14seconds total, thats pretty damned good, in any ship. Finally, and perhaps the best reason to do this, there is the BS/BC/Cruiser ratio in missions. The latter two outnumber the former massively meaning that the few extra seconds or minutes lost when killing BS's with cruise missiles are quickly won back when confronted with something like Smuggler Interception or Mordus Headhunters. To a runner who intends to make a profit, killspeed is everything. The drawback is that the rigs are tough on cpu, and so are BCU II's. With faction BCU prices being what they are though, if you can afford a CNR, spring for 3 or 4 dread/CN BCU's, its isk well spent. As for tank, do missions right, you'll hardly need it. I get by on a low-end faction large sb (for the fitting bonii), 4 T2 hardners and a shield boost amp. With the anti cruiser setup the boat has, very few cruisers/BC's ever get within firing range, and if they do, the CNR has a very nice shield buffer built right in. The permatanked 3x CCC XL setups you'll see pasted everywhere assume you have to tank everything in a mission forever which is, frankly, stupid. Tank by dmg, kill your targets before they tax your tank. The right tools for the right job and all that
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.28 21:06:00 - [24] Double it? Nah. Not with cruise. I'm currently developing a CNR fit as a side project and so far with T2 damage output it's barely out-pacing my Nighthawk. Ofc the NH is pimped to the max so it's a little unfair to compare them but seriously - a cruise CNR isn't as huge a step up as your friend suggests. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.28 23:56:00 - [25] Originally by: The Djego Originally by: Jin Entres Originally by: Gorith cruise CNR with 3x DG bcs and 7x DG cruise launchers. flinging faction ammo has 653 DPS with max skills factor in a defender taking out 1 missile per volley (and thats being generous to the CNR) it drops to 560 DPS a navy mega with 3x Navy mfs and 7x 425mm navy rails throwing DG antimatter has 603 DPS with max skills now i have to go was the dirty EFT warrior feel off You're ignoring a few things, though: ò Rails miss, missiles don't ò Rails do fixed damage types. Missiles can choose and therefore the DPS after resistances is much better ò Rails use a lot of cap which undermines tanking ability One thing I'll give you, though: rails pop frigs from afar while missiles do low damage to them. Want to know what kills stuff fast? Nightmare. 4 T2 Tachyons + 3 HS II w/ AN Multifreq deals out 866 DPS at 33+25 and 502 with Aurora at 119+25. Even with Mega Pulses you'll get 730 DPS with Scorch at 45+10. And it gets a tracking bonus on top. I used a Navy Mega before my Kronos, Damage is very simlar(extra Sentry) and If you get good skills and know what to shoot first and keep range/fit a good Web(depends on the layout of the Mission) Cruise CNR absolutly don¦t outdoo a Navy Mega, vs Kin/Thermal week rats not a chance in hell. If you need lots of Tanking you have the wrong setup on the Navy Mega, mine did L4 with a Med Repper(needet the CPU for a Drone Link) and a mix of 3 ANP/Faction Hardners absoutly fine. 3 Faction MFS, Damage Implants, T2 425mm Rails, dual Tracking Comps, Sentrys and a Drone Link realy make this ship great and very flexible with Range. Since I got a Abaddon(that easy tops your Nightmare DPS and range with a Puls fitting, mostly by Imps and Faction HS) in a real Mission both ships perform preaty good, and not that diffrent like the DPS number would say(all Depends on Range, Resists, NPC Types, Mission Layout etc.). To make it short Navy Mega is a very nice Ship, but don¦t overdo the Tank, that makes it sucky, gank fitted it beats the CM CNR 9/10 times, there is not need for switching. at max skills the abaddon and nightmare do identical dps, nightmare gets 1/2 cap use however built in. the mega pulse abaddons dps advantage over tach nightmare/paladin only is valid out to about 20km, and is rather marginal, past 20km, the tachs do more damage.
Tanith YarnDemon	Posted - 2008.09.29 00:04:00 - [26] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton at max skills the abaddon and nightmare do identical dps, nightmare gets 1/2 cap use however built in. the mega pulse abaddons dps advantage over tach nightmare/paladin only is valid out to about 20km, and is rather marginal, past 20km, the tachs do more damage. The reason the nightmare is so great is partly because of it being shieldtanked which for missions is GREAT, and partly because of it's tracking bonus. Cap use is a minor issue. Oh, and the abaddon struggles to fit decent damage and tank at once, nightmare does it with ease while fitting smartbombs just as heatsinks and to pop frigates. In short, in theoretical dps they're the same, in practical dps abaddon is among the worst of the amarr/pseudoamarr battleships.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.29 00:17:00 - [27] Originally by: Coltach Thing with comparing raven variants and gunships is its apples and oranges really. The CNR is, bar none, the best mission ship in eve IF ITS FIT RIGHT! Its most powerful feature, almost universally overlooked, is it hits every time. That, along with understanding explosion radius, is the key to missions. Skipping the gory details, a standard cruise missile has an explosion radius of 300m. Your garden variety mission BS has equal or larger signature radius, meaning it takes full damage from the missile, nothing is wasted. Your garden variety mission cruiser on the other hand has a sig rad of about 140m. Varies a bit from one to the next. That means that more than half the destructive capability of a cruise missile is lost. Just bleeds off into space. If you want to know how vitally important this is, look at a stealth bomber. Those get a massive bonus to explosion radius, effectively concentrating the damage of the cruise missile into the sig rad range of frigates. The Golem does the same, but in reverse. Using painters it raises the sig rad of smaller ships, hitting them for more damage. Now the gravy: The CNR has no painter bonus, but it has grid and cpu to spare, and, crucially, it has 3 rig slots. Thus Warhead Rigor Catalyst I becomes the ultimate mission rig Put 3 of these in a CNR, get Guided Missile Precision up to 4 or better yet 5 and your cruise missiles now have a sig rad of around 140m. Like those garden variety mission cruisers, get the picture? That means you are now hitting cruisers for the full damage potential of the cruise missile and you are hitting them every time you fire, and from whatever your max lock range is don't forget (assuming fair missile skills). Yes you'll lose some missiles to defenders, its not that big of a deal in the long run. Even better, you hit destroyers at nearly full too, and frigs get a hefty bang on the noggin. Taking out an NPC intercepter with 2 vollies, 13 - 14seconds total, thats pretty damned good, in any ship. Finally, and perhaps the best reason to do this, there is the BS/BC/Cruiser ratio in missions. The latter two outnumber the former massively meaning that the few extra seconds or minutes lost when killing BS's with cruise missiles are quickly won back when confronted with something like Smuggler Interception or Mordus Headhunters. To a runner who intends to make a profit, killspeed is everything. The drawback is that the rigs are tough on cpu, and so are BCU II's. With faction BCU prices being what they are though, if you can afford a CNR, spring for 3 or 4 dread/CN BCU's, its isk well spent. As for tank, do missions right, you'll hardly need it. I get by on a low-end faction large sb (for the fitting bonii), 4 T2 hardners and a shield boost amp. With the anti cruiser setup the boat has, very few cruisers/BC's ever get within firing range, and if they do, the CNR has a very nice shield buffer built right in. The permatanked 3x CCC XL setups you'll see pasted everywhere assume you have to tank everything in a mission forever which is, frankly, stupid. Tank by dmg, kill your targets before they tax your tank. The right tools for the right job and all that does not hit every time defenders take out like 1/7 or something, maybe even slightly more. seems for every volley I fire at least 1 defender gets sent out. and with tachyons I barely miss, and when I do it is for something in web range that hasn't been webbed. heh tachys on a paladin/nightmare will 1 shot a npc interceptor, as in press f1 interceptor dies (okay if its angel/gurista it might take f1 and f2). lots better than launching 2 full volleys at it. and a rail kronos should be able to do almost the same. oh and I usually just let my drones take care of the crap. and I agree xl perma set ups are but I would still rather use guns ps fraction turrnets are pwnage!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.29 00:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Tanith YarnDemon Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton at max skills the abaddon and nightmare do identical dps, nightmare gets 1/2 cap use however built in. the mega pulse abaddons dps advantage over tach nightmare/paladin only is valid out to about 20km, and is rather marginal, past 20km, the tachs do more damage. The reason the nightmare is so great is partly because of it being shieldtanked which for missions is GREAT, and partly because of it's tracking bonus. Cap use is a minor issue. Oh, and the abaddon struggles to fit decent damage and tank at once, nightmare does it with ease while fitting smartbombs just as heatsinks and to pop frigates. In short, in theoretical dps they're the same, in practical dps abaddon is among the worst of the amarr/pseudoamarr battleships. mostly what I was saying to him. wouldn't ever use an abaddon over paladin/nightmare for pve though although I would say the shield tanking part is meh. and tracking is nowhere near as much of an issue as some make it out to be.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.09.29 01:08:00 - [29] Originally by: Manivald Kostaja Some guy insisted that cnr would double isk/hour (against serpentis) rate when compared to navy mega? Can someone confirm is this is true or not? It's not true, simply put a cruise CNR loses a significant amount of DPS(think 20%) to defenders and can't deploy 5x T2 sentries like a mega. The Navy Mega does MORE damage at base and has exceptional tracking to get the little guys. The advantages a CNR has is variable damage type and ease of use... that's it. Actual performance wise the Navy Mega wins in it's niche unless you break out a torp CNR then it's an actual competition(one the mega would still win due to torp explosion radius and inability to fit painters on a CNR). The Navy mega does get utterly crushed by a torp golem though(900DPS to 60KM with tank bonus and painter bonus is <3 ^^). -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Tanith YarnDemon	Posted - 2008.09.29 01:23:00 - [30] Originally by: Kadoes Khan It's not true, simply put a cruise CNR loses a significant amount of DPS(think 20%) to defenders and can't deploy 5x T2 sentries like a mega. The Navy Mega does MORE damage at base and has exceptional tracking to get the little guys. The advantages a CNR has is variable damage type and ease of use... that's it. Actual performance wise the Navy Mega wins in it's niche unless you break out a torp CNR then it's an actual competition(one the mega would still win due to torp explosion radius and inability to fit painters on a CNR). The Navy mega does get utterly crushed by a torp golem though(900DPS to 60KM with tank bonus and painter bonus is <3 ^^). Not entirely true, it's quite possible to fit a TP to a CNR, it's however cumbersome. Either way you will be unable to paint most targets due to the silly cycle time of the painter and the great RoF on torps. The main issue of a CNR is fitting that fourth BCU, don't get me wrong, I'd still say Golem > CNR, but it's not that obvious. The lack of painter bonus is somewhat canceled out by the extra dps and the extra rigslot.

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