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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 08:41:00 -
[1]
Tied a rope around the ankles, and submerged it in 100ft deep seawater with a sufficiently heavy piece of concrete?
Reason I'm asking is because of the book I'm reading, 'the talented mr. ripley' and he does exactly that to a body, kills a guy then ties him to a piece of concrete and throws him overboard the Mediterranean coast. Unfortunately the writer doesn't go into any more details but I'd still like to know what would happen.
My own theory: The body would start to decompose thus gain some floatation capability and thus move upwards to the full length of the rope. It's not exactly mentioned how long the rope was, but lets say about 20ft, that means you have a smallish concrete block on the seabed with a dead body tied to it, floating about 20ft higher. Small enough not to be noticed by passing ships and assuming the rope strength as arbitrary, the body would slowly be eaten away by fish and bacteria until it 'burst' losing the intestinal gases and thus sink down to the bottom again. Due to tidal forces it would slowly be buried under the sand until nothing but the concrete block, a piece of rope and some half buried bones and clothing remained.
Now the question..it's not mentioned how heavy the block is, but the protagonist is able to lift it overboard and throw it in the water, thus I would assume it to be about 50 - 80 pounds because it's a small boat and the protagonist isn't described as very strong.
Would a decomposing body of a person of normal stature be able to float up regardless of such a weight, or float away with it in the tidal forces? Would the legs/ankles decompose eventually, releasing the body from the rope causing it to float away?
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.09.30 08:44:00 -
[2]
More likely the rope would rot first and the corpse would float to the surface and get washed onto a beach. Probably a beach with kids playing around. __________________________
Quote: ...bored, skint, no charter, and a ship that looks like an explosion in a girder factory...
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Marie Duvolle
United Sentients
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Posted - 2008.09.30 08:45:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Marie Duvolle on 30/09/2008 08:45:02 You forget about the fish, scavengers and all that. The bottom of an ocean is hardly empty and filled with scavengers who live of whatever dies and sinks to the bottom.
As I see it the corpse would be eaten before actually being decomposed to a point where odd things might happen.
 Don't stir the hornet's nest |

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 08:46:00 -
[4]
Originally by: ReaperOfSly More likely the rope would rot first and the corpse would float to the surface and get washed onto a beach. Probably a beach with kids playing around.
The rope is described as 'an inch and a half thick' so assume it's either strong enough, or plastic.
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ReaperOfSly
Gallente Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.09.30 08:49:00 -
[5]
In that case, the corpse's ankles would snap off. A person's ankles are somewhat thinner than other parts of the body, and since the corpse would be floating, they would be under tension. As the ankles rot, they weaken. Eventually, the victim's feet would snap off, the corpse would float free, and wash up on a beach. |

Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.09.30 08:57:00 -
[6]
Well now isn't this a cheery thread for a Tuesday morning. -
 DesuSigs |

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 09:08:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 30/09/2008 09:09:46
Originally by: ReaperOfSly In that case, the corpse's ankles would snap off. A person's ankles are somewhat thinner than other parts of the body, and since the corpse would be floating, they would be under tension. As the ankles rot, they weaken. Eventually, the victim's feet would snap off, the corpse would float free, and wash up on a beach.
I was afraid that might happen. He is said not to be a great rope tosser but wraps it around the lower legs several times. Would the legs rot before the body sank down due to the eventual loss of gases?
Also, being the Mediterranean, with loads of small sized sharks and other carnivores about in those (relative) shallow waters, how long till it was simply eaten? |

YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.09.30 09:17:00 -
[8]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 30/09/2008 09:20:38
Drowning
Quote:
A body in water will usually sink but because the specific gravity of a body is very close to that of water then small variations e.g. air trapped in clothing have a considerable effect on buoyancy. Having sunk to the bottom the body will remain there until putrefactive gas formation decreases the specific gravity of the body and creates sufficient buoyancy to allow it to rise to the surface and float. Heavy clothing and weights attached to the body may delay but will not usually prevent the body rising. Putrefaction proceeds at a slower rate in water than in air, in sea water than in fresh water and in running water than in stagnant water. The principal determinant is the temperature of the water so that in deep very cold water e.g. the North American Great Lakes or the ocean the body may never resurface.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 09:39:00 -
[9]
Ah thanks. With the relative shallow waters / high temperature near the cote d' azure I assume then that it would float up, but without enough force to pull the block with it.
Then remains the issue of the rotting ankles, will they 'slip off' the rope before the body is devoured sufficiently by the fishies, causing it to surface?, or after, when the remains have already sunken. |

Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 10:05:00 -
[10]
I think the more likely story is that an army of german stasi ducks would come to the corpses rescue, chase down Ripley and bite him until he died.

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SoftRevolution
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Posted - 2008.09.30 10:12:00 -
[11]
Is the book better than the film?
I preferred "Ripley's Game" to "The Talented Mr Ripley".
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ThaDollaGenerale
The Priory
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Posted - 2008.09.30 10:19:00 -
[12]
If I could swim and dive for say...about 3 minutes to this body; that would change the whole situation. |

YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.09.30 10:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: YouGotRipped on 30/09/2008 10:37:18
Originally by: Sokratesz Ah thanks. With the relative shallow waters / high temperature near the cote d' azure I assume then that it would float up, but without enough force to pull the block with it.
Then remains the issue of the rotting ankles, will they 'slip off' the rope before the body is devoured sufficiently by the fishies, causing it to surface?, or after, when the remains have already sunken.
cote d'azur... I'm no expert in marine biology but based on what I've read so far I'd bet that given the high temperature the ankles will rot in very short time and scavenging has a lesser impact that putrefaction itself. And yes it will resurface.
here's a funny snippet
Quote: Another case involved a man who was accidentally ejected from a boat traveling at a high rate of speed on a Missouri lake. Apparently, he hit his head, became unconscious, and drowned, disappearing below the surface of the water. The incident occurred in the main channel of the lake, which measured over .5 mile wide and varied from 70 to 110 feet deep. A witness could not closely identify the location of the accident, hampering investigators' attempts to locate the victim. To further complicate matters, the area had a substantial amount of underwater timber that remained from before the formation of the lake. Authorities made numerous attempts to recover the man's body by dragging, scuba diving, and using canines--all of these methods proved unsuccessful. Five years later, the remains of a decomposed foot wearing a sock and a tennis shoe surfaced and began floating in the approximate area of the lake where the man's body disappeared.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 10:46:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 30/09/2008 10:53:46
Originally by: SoftRevolution Is the book better than the film?
I preferred "Ripley's Game" to "The Talented Mr Ripley".
Haven't seen the film. The first 50 pages of the book are awful but it gets a whole lot better after that. A second-hand bookstore clerk gave it to me after I asked for something similar to 'the day of the jackal' by Forsyth. (best bloody crime thriller, ever, no ****ing contest)
The one thing that annoys me about the book is more about the writing style then about the story. She keeps (#^#$ referring to him as 'tom then did this and then did that and tom thought and tom said'...it annoys the bejeezus out of me calling a protagonist by his name like that every two lines. Story is quite good though.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 10:51:00 -
[15]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
cote d'azur... I'm no expert in marine biology but based on what I've read so far I'd bet that given the high temperature the ankles will rot in very short time and scavenging has a lesser impact than putrefaction itself. And yes it will surface.
The waters there are quite warm on average, but this part of the story takes place around October, so I don't think it would be exceptionally warm there given the depth (100ft). I checked wiki and a few random sites on the subject and it appears that a number of smaller species of sharks and other small scavenger fish live in those waters, so it remains uncertain whether it would be devoured or decompose first.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2008.09.30 11:15:00 -
[16]
Quote: 8. Are bodies buried at sea eaten by fish ?
Yes. If fish are present to help consume the body, decomposition accelerates a hundred-fold. Fish, crabs and small marine animals quickly begin to feed on the soft parts of a corpse's face. the eyelids, lips and ears are the first to go, and then the eyes, nose and mouth. Dr Carr, former Chief of Pathology at San Francisco General Hospital has said that bodies floating in the cold waters of San Francisco routinely have "shrimps at the orifices".
In some areas of the sea, large fish are scarce, so it is the smaller animal life that feeds on the remains. These small creatures, however, are quite efficient. Evidence of this was seen during the recent exploration of fourteen World War II warships recently found undisturbed in 3000 feet of water fifty years after the bloody naval battle around Guadalcanal. As Robert Ballard, the undersea explorer, said, "All that's missing are the bodies of the thousands of sailors".
Larger animals feed on the torso and extremities, with sharks typically removing pieces 8 to 10 inches across. Throughout history, sharks have been found with recongnizable body parts in their stomachs, perhaps due in part to the shark's very slow digestion time (8 to 21 days). According to Dr. Joseph H. Davis, Chief Medical Examiner for Dade county, Florida, one shark was caught off the Florida coast with an entire human leg in its stomach-from the hip to a sneaker-clad foot.
In one notorious Australian case, a shark that had recently been captured and put into an aquarium for public viewing suddenly regurgitated an entire human arm and hand. This "famous Shark mystery" was eventually solved by matching the fingerprints and a tattoo on the arm with those of a missing person. An Australian court, however, ruled that one arm a homicide does not make-the case was never prosecuted for want of the rest body.
Fish do seem to be finicky eaters. Yet occasionally, when through accident or intent embalmed bodies are buried at sea, fish generally avoid them. Although thses bodies decompose faster than they would after an earth burial, fish do not like the odor they emit, so bacterial activity and the physical action of the sea cause most of their decomposition.
lol
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 11:31:00 -
[17]
That site has a few hilarious trivia ^^
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KurmoL
Caldari Evil Activities United For 0rder
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Posted - 2008.09.30 11:53:00 -
[18]
You're all getting rid of corpses the wrong way. you should get an oil drum. put in the corpse pour in concrete so its 1 massive concrete block then sail to the Marianas Trench and dump it there. Figuring the concrete block is so heavy it will never float even with the gasses building up. the marianas trench is 35760 - 36090 ft deap no one has ever been there. and remember.. no body no murder :')
And NO I do not have experience. may the sp«Źn be with u |

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 12:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: KurmoL You're all getting rid of corpses the wrong way. you should get an oil drum. put in the corpse pour in concrete so its 1 massive concrete block then sail to the Marianas Trench and dump it there. Figuring the concrete block is so heavy it will never float even with the gasses building up. the marianas trench is 35760 - 36090 ft deap no one has ever been there. and remember.. no body no murder :')
And NO I do not have experience.
What if a security camera filmed you stabbing someone, him wobbling out of sight in his final moves, but you removing the body and disposing of it like that without anyone knowing or seeing? Will you be charged with murder? |

KurmoL
Caldari Evil Activities United For 0rder
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Posted - 2008.09.30 12:02:00 -
[20]
There is no such thing as security cameras in holland! |
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 12:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: KurmoL There is no such thing as security cameras in holland!
there are, 2 hangin at the corner of my street :(
not like britain tho, plastered with 'cctv in operation' sticker ^^ |

B0rn2KiLL
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.30 12:26:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Sokratesz Would the legs/ankles decompose eventually, releasing the body from the rope causing it to float away?
Hmmm, I like your face. |

P'uck
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Posted - 2008.09.30 13:19:00 -
[23]
I'm not sure about this, but I think I read somewhere that human corpses (most mammals probably) float in water only for a short period of time, and it's not right away.
First the "fresh" dead body sinks, at least when there's no air in the lungs anymore. When the decaying underwater starts, the body gets filled with wotsitsname gas like a balloon and starts to float again, for about 2 to 3 days iirc.
after that it sinks like a rock again.
May have some details mixed up, but in the end I think that's pretty much what happens. |

Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2008.09.30 13:39:00 -
[24]
I would dare to say that ocean life will sufficiently breakdown the body before the rope decays or the ankle slips through the tie.
Originally by: Death to Dust In warm to hot water, a body completely exposed to the elements takes only two to four weeks to be reduced to a skeleton. Carrion insects and carnivorous animals, stimulated by warm weather, play a large role in this destruction. Anything that protects a body from these invaders slows down the decomposition.
Link
Add a little blood to attract carrion's then we have a body that probably will not last to long.
Solution, not that anyone asked. Poke a few holes in the lungs to allow the residual air volume in the lungs ability to escape, a few holes in the abdomen so gases from decomposition can escape, and you have a body that will really have a hard time floating back to the top.
Slade
Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
≡v≡ |

P'uck
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Posted - 2008.09.30 13:42:00 -
[25]
sweet, and what you gonna do with all those bones and teeth?
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Slade Trillgon
Siorai Iontach
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Posted - 2008.09.30 13:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: P'uck sweet, and what you gonna do with all those bones and teeth?
What bones do you speak of? 
Slade
Originally by: Crumplecorn NerfBat is now known as the WaveMachine.
≡v≡ |

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 13:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: B0rn2KiLL
Originally by: Sokratesz Would the legs/ankles decompose eventually, releasing the body from the rope causing it to float away?
Hmmm, I like your face.
wanna hook up? |

B0rn2KiLL
Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.09.30 14:06:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: B0rn2KiLL
Originally by: Sokratesz Would the legs/ankles decompose eventually, releasing the body from the rope causing it to float away?
Hmmm, I like your face.
wanna hook up?
Dinner & General Mayhem? Pick you up at 7? |

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.30 14:12:00 -
[29]
sure, and a romantic walk at the harbour afterwards?
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Jana Clant
New Dawn Corp New Eden Research
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Posted - 2008.09.30 14:15:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sokratesz sure, and a romantic walk at the harbour afterwards?

If she brings a rope and a block of concrete, get the hell out of there!
Join New Eden Research today and never worry about queues again!
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