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Mr Sado
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Posted - 2008.09.30 15:35:00 -
[1]
Many of us are tired of logging on to find belts being depleted by these macro miners then having to move to other systems to get the ore we need.
there have been many petitions against these things.
it is our understanding that those accts would be closed and IPs banned.
so far only reply to petitions is..." we'll look into it".
by us i mean many in my corp as well as others.
so what exactly is ccp view on this? |
ScaR97731
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Posted - 2008.10.01 07:50:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Mr Sado Many of us are tired of logging on to find belts being depleted by these macro miners then having to move to other systems to get the ore we need.
there have been many petitions against these things.
it is our understanding that those accts would be closed and IPs banned.
so far only reply to petitions is..." we'll look into it".
by us i mean many in my corp as well as others.
so what exactly is ccp view on this?
How do you KNOW that they are Macro-Miners? I mean really, how do you know? Maybe they are just mining to make ISKs to be able to afford stuff. Maybe they aren't lazy like you and actually work to get ISKS instead of expecting someone to hand them to him. Maybe they get up everyday and go mine the belts, and don't really get involved in PVP and other useless activities like that, which is why when you do finally get around to going to the asteroid belts its devoid of asteroids to mine.
Just because a miner doesn't speak to you when you arrive in a system doesn't mean he's a macro miner. I personally think you are just lazy and full of jealousy to the point where you are acting out your frustrations on the miner. Grow up and learn to work and EARN your ISKs instead of being a spiteful, jealous, WHINE BABY.
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Mac Oviedo
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Posted - 2008.10.01 09:34:00 -
[3]
I petitioned a macro miner, got the same lame answer and he is still mining in high sec (0.8 system) - petition was about 2 months ago. How do i know he's a macro miner: he mines 24/7, blocks convo, dont answer in local and mines without reaction even when i try to suicide gank....proof? And if CCP would look into the case they would find evidence i think.
But on the other side the mineral prices are dumped (by a few megaseller)- no good days for true miners - keep on the good work CCP and ruin a profession. (Why don't you sell macros instead CCP ?, if you don't care)
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Nautsyn Thome
Minmatar Shark Investments
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Posted - 2008.10.01 11:12:00 -
[4]
Originally by: ScaR97731
Originally by: Mr Sado Many of us are tired of logging on to find belts being depleted by these macro miners then having to move to other systems to get the ore we need.
there have been many petitions against these things.
it is our understanding that those accts would be closed and IPs banned.
so far only reply to petitions is..." we'll look into it".
by us i mean many in my corp as well as others.
so what exactly is ccp view on this?
How do you KNOW that they are Macro-Miners? I mean really, how do you know? Maybe they are just mining to make ISKs to be able to afford stuff. Maybe they aren't lazy like you and actually work to get ISKS instead of expecting someone to hand them to him. Maybe they get up everyday and go mine the belts, and don't really get involved in PVP and other useless activities like that, which is why when you do finally get around to going to the asteroid belts its devoid of asteroids to mine.
Just because a miner doesn't speak to you when you arrive in a system doesn't mean he's a macro miner. I personally think you are just lazy and full of jealousy to the point where you are acting out your frustrations on the miner. Grow up and learn to work and EARN your ISKs instead of being a spiteful, jealous, WHINE BABY.
you simply have no idea what you're talking about. |
Ydyp Ieva
Caldari Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2008.10.01 14:10:00 -
[5]
For the empty belts it isn't the macro miners that are the problem. It is the time and moment when they get seeded (Downtime) and how easy it is to strip a belt (Hulks anyone?). Now with that even without macro miners I would find belt empty all the time around my systems as I know there are people that don't have to work as late as me, or those in another time zone that just get up after downtime and got time to play then.
But then again, a macro miner isn't always easy to spot. Heck even my alt has been reported a few times as macro miner. Can I help it that I enjoy it more to blow stuff up on my main account and leave my alt semi-afk at an ice belt. And yes convo's are blocked on my alt. Can't be bothered on that account. The only active thing I do is log in get her to the belt and then move to the station every 10 minutes with full cargohold and repeat.
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Rodanine
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.10.02 00:34:00 -
[6]
i petitioned a macro miner the other day haven't heard anything from ccp about it and you other people want to know how i know its a macro miner.
i think it has something to do to the fact their mackinaw got blown up and for the rest of the night on a 15 min cycle warping to the belt and back to the station in a pod no human player is that stupid to warp back and forth to a belt mining nothing for 6 hours in a pod. i loged out at the end of my game play so i have no idea if they continued to do that till downtime or not. -- yes this is an alt get over it |
Dark Voynix
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.10.02 08:37:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dark Voynix on 02/10/2008 08:38:35 While i agree that macro miners are a problem, as far im aware its not against the rules. Nowhere its writen that's illegal to go afk without closing the client. Some people mine afk, other travel afk, well there is even an autopilot feature made for that purpouse. that told i dont see what do you expet from ccp when you petition an afk'er guy. He did nothing "illegal".
Petion is not the solution, the solution should be chance how mining works. some hints: * make ice belts with small roids. MUCH smaller, so they could mine for not longer that 10 minutes before the ice deplet.
* same thing also for standard belts ... there should not be huge roids
* set a minimum distance from a roids ( 3km at least)
* reduce drastically the mining laser range (1-2km).
this should force to pilot the ship every 10 mins at least ( they do not need to move much. they must move just 1-2 km, but its enough to force them to be near the screen.
that told we should also consider that miners have a big problem using 1 account since cargo its redicolous small for mining purpuse. I propose to make cargo for mining ship 10x bigger, So they dont need a nother char to "haul".
Those changes should force them not be afk, but also give them a change to mine without using 2 accounts.
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Will Nazca
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.02 18:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: ScaR97731
How do you KNOW that they are Macro-Miners? I mean really, how do you know? Maybe they are just mining to make ISKs to be able to afford stuff.
Yeah, really. Just check the internet. Nobody REALLY sells isk for RM. There is no such thing as a Macro Miner or Farmers.
Only an idiot can't tell the difference. And the way these ass clowns defend them, they either but isk or macro themselves.
Fix it or forget about it. don't pretend to care and then do nothing to stop it. If it's truly un-enforcable (as this guy would have us believe) then make it legal.
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** Miner to the Stars ** |
Cheekything
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Posted - 2008.10.02 20:50:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dark Voynix
Petion is not the solution, the solution should be chance how mining works. some hints: * make ice belts with small roids. MUCH smaller, so they could mine for not longer that 10 minutes before the ice deplet.
* same thing also for standard belts ... there should not be huge roids
* set a minimum distance from a roids ( 3km at least)
* reduce drastically the mining laser range (1-2km).
this should force to pilot the ship every 10 mins at least ( they do not need to move much. they must move just 1-2 km, but its enough to force them to be near the screen.
Sadly a slight flaw would be anyone who does make a macro probably has got it to aproach each roid to be within range first
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Christari Zuborov
Amarr Ore Mongers Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.10.02 21:05:00 -
[10]
Create a CAPTHCA window that appears every 30 minutes or your mining lasers won't cycle, after each undock, or at each connection created after being disconnected - whichever is the least amount of time between passing one.
Sure, it may not stop someone from entering it in every 30 minutes, but it will eliminate complete automatons.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.10.02 22:47:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov Create a CAPTHCA window that appears every 30 minutes or your mining lasers won't cycle, after each undock, or at each connection created after being disconnected - whichever is the least amount of time between passing one.
Sure, it may not stop someone from entering it in every 30 minutes, but it will eliminate complete automatons.
This idea is worse than the macro miners. Repeating it doesn't make it any better either.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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Nostejio
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Posted - 2008.10.03 04:22:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Nostejio on 03/10/2008 04:24:53 Edited by: Nostejio on 03/10/2008 04:23:14
Originally by: Christari Zuborov Create a CAPTHCA window that appears every 30 minutes or your mining lasers won't cycle, after each undock, or at each connection created after being disconnected - whichever is the least amount of time between passing one.
Sure, it may not stop someone from entering it in every 30 minutes, but it will eliminate complete automatons.
All the macro creator has to do is wait for a specific color or window to appear.. macros don't operate blindly, they are very sophisticated. In some of the other mmo's there's even scripts that emulate human error, human responses, and most operate with a random timer so that the steps the script take don't appear machine like.
Nope, 90% of what CCP does to prevent macro runners ends up catching normal players who get fed up and decide to macro. These players are essentially noobs and easy to spot. The real pros take time to weed out. They aren't part of the video game populace, they don't interact with anyone except themselves.
In order for CCP to thoroughly weed out hard core macros would take unbeliveable amounts of time. More than CCP can afford to spend. The same goes for pointing fingers. It all gets added to this massive pile of reports and some poor b*stard is sitting in a tiny room taking grains of rice off a 10 foot pile of reports. Yep they'll look into it, just keep in mind, it may not be until 2015.
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Will Nazca
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.03 11:38:00 -
[13]
I read on the forums a while back that one idea was to make some roids 'dummy' roids, where only visual inspection would confirm that you're on the motherload. Just because a rock shows up and you can lock on it doesn't mean there is anything there to mine. Imagine a Macro locking a roid, mining for 4 hours and getting nothing to refine! Maybe not a 100% solution either (what is?) but it might slow them down a little.
That is assuming they actually do exist!
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** Miner to the Stars ** |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.03 17:48:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Mac Oviedo I petitioned a macro miner, got the same lame answer and he is still mining in high sec (0.8 system) - petition was about 2 months ago. How do i know he's a macro miner: he mines 24/7, blocks convo, dont answer in local and mines without reaction even when i try to suicide gank....proof? And if CCP would look into the case they would find evidence i think.
But on the other side the mineral prices are dumped (by a few megaseller)- no good days for true miners - keep on the good work CCP and ruin a profession. (Why don't you sell macros instead CCP ?, if you don't care)
"he mines 24/7" Then he is CCP as he is on the server even during DT.
Seriously, you suppose he mine 23/7 as you always see him on when you log in and when you log off (and how long you play every day?)
He block your convos. Plenty of people use auto reject, it is option under the general settings.
Never answer in local. More ofthen than not I don't even look local. Mor interested in corp/alliance chat and personal channels. When you have 6-7 channels open a blinky local is the least interesting.
"without reaction even when i try to suicide gank" if the word "try" is right I would be amused by the Nth failed attempt by you to suicide gank. Even supposing you are successful, plenty of people mine semi AFK and will not notice you.
I am not discounting the possibility it is really a macro miners, but your "evidence" is flimsy and from your post you seem to simply look for some form of confirmation of your suppositions, starting with the conviction that he is a macro and never looking for a alternate possibility.
About the macro and reporting them: differently from you CCP can't assume they are macro and act aganist them. They need to verify it with as little doubt as possible. Then if they are macros or isk sellers they will try to trace his colleagues and the isk buyers, so they do the maximum damage in a single hit, instead of banning a single account with no effect.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.03 18:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Rodanine i petitioned a macro miner the other day haven't heard anything from ccp about it and you other people want to know how i know its a macro miner.
i think it has something to do to the fact their mackinaw got blown up and for the rest of the night on a 15 min cycle warping to the belt and back to the station in a pod no human player is that stupid to warp back and forth to a belt mining nothing for 6 hours in a pod. i loged out at the end of my game play so i have no idea if they continued to do that till downtime or not.
This is a reasonable identification of a macro miner.
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Erakyn
Big Orange Cog
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Posted - 2008.10.03 20:30:00 -
[16]
I petitioned a group of high sec Ice Miners in Brapilille (sp?) the other day. With names like (last character of each name change to protect potentially innocent players ):
xiexixiexg zsskhg wwor kkorg vggaag unddoryg shuoninh jmfog jmfofog ....
etc. about 5 or 6 more. All characters less than 6-7 months. All in NPC corps. Always on. Always in the same system. Always flying Macknaws. I got the same - "thanks for reporting we will look into it" - and I sincerely hope they do.
But I think the solution is to automatically boot characters from NPC corps after 60 or 90 days, or tax them significantly in increasing amounts as long as they stay in the corp. At least then you could force them into corps and people could war-dec them and make their lives miserable.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.04 06:38:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Christari Zuborov Create a CAPTHCA window that appears every 30 minutes or your mining lasers won't cycle, after each undock, or at each connection created after being disconnected - whichever is the least amount of time between passing one.
Sure, it may not stop someone from entering it in every 30 minutes, but it will eliminate complete automatons.
Enjoy a capthca every time you undock in 0.0, during fleet fight ( that will be really the end of them) and so on.
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2008.10.04 12:58:00 -
[18]
CCP have thrown their arms up in the air Changed the way GTC and ETC are sold etc Macros pay $$$$ for accounts so in theory support game development
CCP Dont want to kill the golden egg so they tolerate them remove high sec system belts make it easish to suicde em - perhaps engaging a NPC corper ( ex player corps ex FW corps) should attract half the sec hit as regular players ( at least in high sec) would make it harder.
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z0de
Gallente The Bastards
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Posted - 2008.10.04 21:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: ollobrains2 Macros pay $$$$ for accounts so in theory support game development
lol, macros make lots of isk, gcc's can be bought with isk, macros use isk to pay for accounts.
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schmarty pants
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Posted - 2008.10.05 03:14:00 -
[20]
Edited by: schmarty pants on 05/10/2008 03:22:42 CCP don't care about Macro Miners.
CCP put in writing EULA rules that attempt to discourage people from using macro's but that's as far as they go.
I think it's sad that people think they can change the eve world, how about focusing on something that really matters in life than this pos game?
* And just to add, WoW embrace macros so much so that it's built into the game.
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Khraunus
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.10.05 05:40:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Khraunus on 05/10/2008 05:40:56
Originally by: z0de lol, macros make lots of isk, gcc's can be bought with isk, macros use isk to pay for accounts.
And who do you think bought the GCC to begin with? GCCs and subs are all the same, CCP gets the money either way. You're kidding yourself if you think CCP don't draw a profit from them.
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ollobrains2
Gallente New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2008.10.06 06:57:00 -
[22]
director or indirect they draw a profit and hence the forum silence oh the odd purge of a few dozen accounts which they crow about but in the overall sense little is done u can petititon report and now they have made suicide ganking harder and raise the sec status because to many macros were getting blown up in empire
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.10.06 11:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Will Nazca I read on the forums a while back that one idea was to make some roids 'dummy' roids, where only visual inspection would confirm that you're on the motherload.
So, instead of just mining the asteroid, I first have to survey it and make spectral analysis and what not?
Or, I just start mining, stop, and check what I got?
Surely no macro writer would EVER think of something like that? Surely they couldn't compare names, like "Dense Veldspar" and "Dummy Veldspar"? Perhaps you want to make it so they have to click "show info" first?
Face it, almost everything a human can do, a macro can. Only it doesn't get bored and won't mind repetition. Perhaps audio-captcha tests might work - for a while. But it'll also severly limit legit players. -------------------------------------------------- I'm a rich person. How I know? I can afford to be a miner. |
Preator Shinzon
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Posted - 2008.10.06 11:45:00 -
[24]
I've come across a few macro miners myself, and for those that don't understand the term "Macro" it means they are using a script to mine, not going simply afk. When I was "young" in here I used to afk mine in a hauler. Macro miners use complex scripts. But usually they are easy enough to spot. Like the group I found in a ice belt. 6 chars total, with names like: hjdkfhfjkdfhgkh, hfyrtjghfi, hjehfghdelgkh, oeruoeurwporuwepo.... and so on. either its a macro miner, or a complete and utter moron with no sense of imagination for creating names. All in the same NPC corp, all created on the same day, all flying Mack's, and strangely enough, they were all perfectly positioned around a GSC, in a neat little formation, with the last char flying in and out with an Iteron Mark V.
I decided to find out if they were macro miners. No, I didn't even try to convo them, waste of time. I did however get my BS fitted with a MWD, and slam as hard as i could into them, the Mack's were set to "approach" the GSC, so they always went back automatically. So I tried to block the hauler. And gee, it worked. He couldn't warp back, since there was a huge BS in his way. After a few minutes, this hauler went offline, and tried to emergency warp away, I was still blocking it, so it failed. Eventually it simply disappeared. (as it went offline) about 5 minutes later, it came back. I tried blocking it again, and same result. The script was obviously set to log off in the case of blockage. The mack's by this time had now filled their hold with pretty ice, and the GSC must have been full. One by one, the mining lasers shut down. Waiting for the lazy hauler to get his ass back and empty their ice.
How do i know this was not a afk miner? The warping to and from the station was a clue, cant do that afk, unless you use a script. And guess what, scripts are illegal. So either this was a macro miner, or a VERY stupid player, that don't know how to convo someone asking them to stop blocking their hauler. Of course, stupid people are everywhere, so I can't be a 100% sure. I personally would have warped the Mack's back to the station to empty their hold, since the hauler was busy trying to mate with a BS. But I guess this person was a little less clever.
But I reported this group that seemed to be one single person controlled. And it a took a couple of weeks, but lo and behold. They are now gone. Only the funny named GSC is left. But it'll be gone when the 30 day timer expires. So yes, there are macro miners out there, not just lazy afk miners, and YES, reporting them DOES work. It takes time for CCP to confirm this. Oddly they don't take your word for it when you petition. You might just be a jerk trying to mess up for others. Shocking isn't it? |
A1zheimer
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Posted - 2008.10.06 20:39:00 -
[25]
I petitioned a Macro Miner once too.
How do i know he was one? Easy answer:
I was Ice Mining and there was this guy (his name was not wierd), whatever he was warping to the station and back to the field like me. Until this point normal and nothing seemed to be suspicious. But then there came the rats and they blew him up . You know what happened? His Pod was warping back to station and to the Ice Field in the same time intervals as before so...... which normal player who is playing would do this???
I Petitioned it and wrote exactly that but i didn't know if he got banned. I still saw this guy 2-3 days later. I hope this was the last time .
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Will Nazca
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.07 15:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind
Perhaps you want to make it so they have to click "show info" first?
Face it, almost everything a human can do, a macro can.
Read the post Numb Nuts!! I was repeating what I had read somewhere. I don't want to '...make it so' anything!
I bet they even have a macro that can log in to the Forum, make stupid-ass remarks and never, ever give any intelligent input on a subject. That would save YOU a boat load of time. I'll look around for one and send you the link.
_______________________________________________
** Miner to the Stars ** |
Odhinn Vinlandii
Shadows of the Dead Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.08 22:19:00 -
[27]
None of your solutions will work.
Macros are way too advanced.
You can not watch for repetitive behavior from macros. Macros can be user set to certain randomizations. You can say every 15 hauls to the station, type "hello" in local or even 'warp to the other station dock, undock and then continue mining.' The most common randomization is 'every *userset* amount of hauls wait *userset* minutes in station and then begin mining again.'
However, a sure sign that the person is a macro hauler is that they have auto-reject on. They turn on auto-reject so the pop-up window doesn't block the macro OCR monitoring of the overview for rats and OCR monitoring of the full bar of the cargohold.
The easiest and first method to stop macro miners should be a window that pop ups at the end of each laser cycle in a random location on the screen asking 'click to continue' and until clicked all input is blocked. That way the macro couldn't auto warp out or deploy drones when rats come in.
However, the biggest macro problem is macro haulers such as the 100 haulers a minute undocking in ingunn.
And no, CCP wont stop them, I've been complaining about ingunn for over a year.
Best thing to do is what I have done... buy up all the indy ships, resell them jacked up so their macro's make you rich buying new haulers as you pop them outside station.
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exyst
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Posted - 2008.10.12 07:45:00 -
[28]
The only time i can see where macro mining, will become a problem is if there were a lot of them lagging up the system.. I've semi-afk'ed mined up many asteriods belts, which many of us have done solo or with corp mates, while watching tv and after down-time the asteriod belts supposed to respawn don't know if they still do or not. But the main thing is play the GAME stop worrying about what others are doing. Before CCP come up with a "supposed to be solution" and screw us all up.
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Odhinn Vinlandii
Shadows of the Dead Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.12 08:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: exyst The only time i can see where macro mining, will become a problem is if there were a lot of them lagging up the system.. I've semi-afk'ed mined up many asteriods belts, which many of us have done solo or with corp mates, while watching tv and after down-time the asteriod belts supposed to respawn don't know if they still do or not. But the main thing is play the GAME stop worrying about what others are doing. Before CCP come up with a "supposed to be solution" and screw us all up.
It's difficult to play a game that has become tedious grinding work due to macro haulers crashing the market.
I doubt you remember when mining was a profitable profession and not simply frivolous ************.
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Kedan Denning
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Posted - 2008.10.12 12:39:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Kedan Denning on 12/10/2008 12:43:35
Originally by: Erakyn I petitioned a group of high sec Ice Miners in Brapilille (sp?) the other day. With names like (last character of each name change to protect potentially innocent players ):
xiexixiexg zsskhg wwor kkorg vggaag unddoryg shuoninh jmfog jmfofog
I've made two or three petitions about this exact group in B****lille, four or five of them sit at the top of the ice field in Macks and another flies an Iteron back and forth from the station picking up the chunks.
This isn't immediately damming though, so our CEO went out to them in a Disco Domi once and managed to pop all of the Macks before Concord deciding he wasn't doing the world a favour (this was before the concord changes, so I don't know if it's still possible... will have to try it).
Anyway the point is their pods remained at the can and the Iteron kept flying back and forth from the station for a long time... not entirely sure what he was hauling though :P
I'm pretty sure most of my corp members have reported them at some point but fly out to the top of the Brap ice field and you can see them for yourself.
EDIT: LOL, Br-a-p-e-lille got filtered because the word r-a-p-e is in there... *chuckle*
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