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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:33:00 -
[1]
There would be no more threat of 'alt spies'. Newer players would have an easier time intigrating into the community and not run off after a month or so. 0.0 would open up for neutral characters since the general trust level of the game has gone up. They would bring trade. There would be empire prices in 0.0. The extra movement between high sec and 0.0 would populate low sec and pirates would have more targets. The extra activity in general in low sec would make it safer bringing more mission runners to low sec and even miners.
There would be no falcon alts. No probe alts. No forum alts. If you wanted to scam you would do it on your main.
Alts are what kills low sec. Alts are what destroys pvp. Alts are what screw up politics.
Just get rid of every single alt. I don't care how. Ask god to do it. But every alt should die.
Buff amarr.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:36:00 -
[2]
Die.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Trist Ian
Free Galactic Enterprises Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:37:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Trist Ian on 03/10/2008 02:37:42 It would also make having a capital very hard. Since u would have to rely on everybody else to help u move around. Personally it would be completely dumb. And CCP would also loose alot of players and money.
To the op. Slap yourself!
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:39:00 -
[4]
"I have the perfect solution to everything, but have no clue how it should be implemented... on second thought, maybe it can't even be implemented... but I did have THE solution anyway". Right
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Judge Ment
Aeon Interstellar Conglomerate Vanguard.
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:40:00 -
[5]
One thing for sure EVE would be empty ------------------------------------- We judge others by actions We judge ourselves by intentions. |
Tiberius Maddox
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:42:00 -
[6]
It's hard to overstate just how much more meaningful and gritty EVE's gameplay would be if everyone had a single character. Everyone would then have to face the consequences of his/her actions, both good and bad. Bounty hunting would work. Scammers would actually have to think before acting. Fleet warfare might just evolve into something a little more meaningful than a godawful blob/lagfest from hell.
Sadly, I see no desire on CCP's part to make this happen, and it probably would be impossible anyway.
So... the EVE universe will continue on its present path.
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El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:43:00 -
[7]
The fact that you envision prices in nullsec to drop to the level of a production environment with zero risk to transportation (empire) is in itself testament to how broken your proposal is. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:43:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Trist Ian Edited by: Trist Ian on 03/10/2008 02:37:42 It would also make having a capital very hard. Since u would have to rely on everybody else to help u move around. Personally it would be completely dumb. And CCP would also loose alot of players and money.
To the op. Slap yourself!
Capitals were a bad idea.
They should remove them from the game. And if they are kept in. you SHOULD require constant 24/7 support to fly them. They are after all supposed to be a corp investment, not a personal one. Right?
As predicted the only people who argue my blatantly obvious truths are those who don't want to lose their personal pocket carrier fleet.
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EglantinFinfleur
Ecpyrosis
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Trist Ian It would also make having a capital very hard. Since u would have to rely on everybody else to help u move around. Personally it would be completely dumb. And CCP would also loose alot of players and money.
That would make this game truly multiplayer and a real social experiment instead of the no-consequences interactions we now have. Bad rep? sell your char, buy another. Ganker, can't get in highsec for shopping? use your alt. Want stuff from a faction that hates you? run missions with an alt. And of course, all the spying and double agent stuff is really catastrophic. Alts are the bane of this game, and the reason why there are no 'good guy', or at least responsible people. Anybody can just get away with scamming and senseless ganking. It can even be made easier through simultaneous use of another, if not more, accounts.
A single account single character EvE will be the greatest thing ever. I hereby void all your technical complaints about the implementation -let's just say it can be done-, just try and prove me wrong that it would be immensely beneficial for gameplay (not from a financial point of view).
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:45:00 -
[10]
And how would you enforce this?
Alts do the dirty, EXTREMELY boring tasks in eve. Like scouting, cyno'ing, etc, etc.
Also your train of thought is insanely trollish. You are like a troll train of ******ed thoughts. Please pass by the EVE stop and make your way to WoW, your final destination. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Treelox
Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:46:00 -
[11]
Funny how you had to use what appears to be an alt to make this post. I guess that prove the fallacy of you own point. --
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Trist Ian Edited by: Trist Ian on 03/10/2008 02:37:42 It would also make having a capital very hard. Since u would have to rely on everybody else to help u move around. Personally it would be completely dumb. And CCP would also loose alot of players and money.
To the op. Slap yourself!
Capitals were a bad idea.
They should remove them from the game. And if they are kept in. you SHOULD require constant 24/7 support to fly them. They are after all supposed to be a corp investment, not a personal one. Right?
As predicted the only people who argue my blatantly obvious truths are those who don't want to lose their personal pocket carrier fleet.
Originally by: El'essar Viocragh The fact that you envision prices in nullsec to drop to the level of a production environment with zero risk to transportation (empire) is in itself testament to how broken your proposal is.
Well that is true. The cost of moving things would be included. But i foresee it being so much more equal than it is now in a relative sense that i thought it best not to mention it, since i was trying to keep things quick and general in my OP.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Treelox Funny how you had to use what appears to be an alt to make this post. I guess that prove the fallacy of you own point.
No sir ^____^
Ive been playing eve off and on since 05, but currently this is my one and only character. This is my original account also. I am MMORPG MASTAR VETARIN. I realize that in the end its all meaningless, so i have no trouble throwing away months or even years worth of work. I more than any can appreciate what being totally restricted to 1 character ever at a time means.
I have to warn people im just sitting in a station training now, and will be for several months. So if they decide to 'come after' me for anything i say on these forums they are in for a very boring time
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5pinDizzy
Amarr Umpteenth Podding
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:54:00 -
[14]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 03/10/2008 02:55:18
Singular people should be made to use Singular characters on singular accounts?
No metagaming at all?
Let me get my head around this, 1 account/character per person? I find this concept most bizarre.
A place where people can't meta farm roids to save time?
No consequence throwaway alts that get huge restrictions put on everyone elses main that would no longer exist?
No risk free coward scam alts? No risk free coward corp thief alts? No risk free noob ship scouts?
NO WAI!! GO DIE!!!
Yes CCP would force people to pay them much less money for the good of the game???
What kind of ****ing airy fairy fantasy land are you living in?
I suppose next you're going to be asking for politicians that care about the common people, and then teenagers who run neighbourhood watch schemes in their community while balancing a job with long hours and safe sex with a long term partner.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.03 02:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Treelox Funny how you had to use what appears to be an alt to make this post. I guess that prove the fallacy of you own point.
No sir ^____^
Ive been playing eve off and on since 05, but currently this is my one and only character. This is my original account also. I am MMORPG MASTAR VETARIN. I realize that in the end its all meaningless, so i have no trouble throwing away months or even years worth of work. I more than any can appreciate what being totally restricted to 1 character ever at a time means.
I have to warn people im just sitting in a station training now, and will be for several months. So if they decide to 'come after' me for anything i say on these forums they are in for a very boring time
So to you all the time and effort spent training your older character on and off from 05 was meaningless and you don't mind throwing it all away for a new character to start fresh with? Please forgive me if I don't take your suggestion seriously then.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:03:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Vabjekf on 03/10/2008 03:05:31
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Treelox Funny how you had to use what appears to be an alt to make this post. I guess that prove the fallacy of you own point.
No sir ^____^
Ive been playing eve off and on since 05, but currently this is my one and only character. This is my original account also. I am MMORPG MASTAR VETARIN. I realize that in the end its all meaningless, so i have no trouble throwing away months or even years worth of work. I more than any can appreciate what being totally restricted to 1 character ever at a time means.
I have to warn people im just sitting in a station training now, and will be for several months. So if they decide to 'come after' me for anything i say on these forums they are in for a very boring time
So to you all the time and effort spent training your older character on and off from 05 was meaningless and you don't mind throwing it all away for a new character to start fresh with? Please forgive me if I don't take your suggestion seriously then.
You know I like you. You are a pretty awesome. If i was zeba i would probably not want to not be zeba anymore too!
Lets not fight ^_____^
The truth of what i said is still undeniable however. It is true that nothing can be done about it. CCP will never do this. It would be difficult to enforce (But what some people may not realize is that there are/where games that did this, and it works like this: First you just make it a bannable offense if you are caught. Then you do things like limiting connections from the same mac address, ip address, only one account payed for per credit card, make each client not want to run with multiple instances, etc. These are all a hassle, a hassle will stop most people, and the people who do it anyway always risk getting caught and banned... of course GTC selling would have to go away for this, with out armies of alts to worry about most people wouldn't mind just paying their single account monthly subscription. But thats another bonus!)
The last i really heard of this sort of system however was back in the day, when dual boxing was acknowledged as being the same sort of thing as macroing or other forms of cheatery. Something someone does to get an unfair advantage. That stance quickly changed when companies started realizing they could double or greater their money by encouraging it. Hence these boring tasks that are just 'asking' for an alt to do it.
Eve would be better with out alts.
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Shinzann
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:05:00 -
[17]
No.
I pay CCP for two accounts. They seem to like taking my money for my two accounts. Why would they want to stop me from giving them money for a second account?
Although I do like the idea of scammers using their main. === Q u o t e: If the servers aren't up, its not a hotfix. |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Shinzann No.
I pay CCP for two accounts. They seem to like taking my money for my two accounts. Why would they want to stop me from giving them money for a second account?
They wouldn't. That doesn't mean they shouldnt however.
Quote:
Although I do like the idea of scammers using their main.
Then how about this. 1 Account per person. 1 character slot per account. Paying extra gets you extra character slots. You can only log onto one at a time, but the other slots can train simultaniously with each other.
People can see what characters are on the same account as any of these characters.
Yes, i am clearly most understanding and compassionate. I can understand the desire to have multiple characters given eves unique character advancement modle. However dual boxing is the same as macroing. Observe.
One account with a macro. Is a person getting benefit from an account with out having to do anything.
Two accounts dual boxing, is a single person getting benefit from an account with out having to do anything to one of the accounts (because you are only playing one at a time, even if you are switching quickly between them)
Obviously the same thing. Both involve a character giving a person an advantage with out them having to be playing it.
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Qanael Radlari
Caldari Kinetic Vector
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:16:00 -
[19]
About dual boxing being the same as macroing: That kind of falls flat, especially in highly interactive situations (i.e. PVP, and to a lesser extent, mission running). Dual-boxing in these situations takes quite a lot more effort than playing a single character.
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Nikla Uthaan
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:17:00 -
[20]
Quote:
They wouldn't. That doesn't mean they shouldnt however.
People shouldn't resort to violence to solve their problems. But people do. Welcome to life. Over here is the tutorial on breathing.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:19:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Vabjekf You know I like you. You are a pretty awesome. If i was zeba i would probably not want to not be zeba anymore too!
Lets not fight ^_____^
Awwww..
To be fair you are right in moast of your assesments. However you are 5 years too late with your proposition. Alts are far too entrenched now to ever be taken away from the masses of players that have them. But if they are taken away you will see an empty and lonely eve on the verge of getting shut down due to having at least half the active accounts if not much moar wiped away. Besides this thread is meaningless cause I know your not really serious anyways.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Shinzann
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Then how about this. 1 Account per person. 1 character slot per account. Paying extra gets you extra character slots. You can only log onto one at a time, but the other slots can train simultaniously with each other.
Yes.
Quote:
People can see what characters are on the same account as any of these characters.
No. If I'm going to pay extra for another character slot, I might not want it to be readily known that it's on the same account as my main.
Quote:
Yes, i am clearly most understanding and compassionate. I can understand the desire to have multiple characters given eves unique character advancement modle. However dual boxing is the same as macroing. Observe.
One account with a macro. Is a person getting benefit from an account with out having to do anything.
Two accounts dual boxing, is a single person getting benefit from an account with out having to do anything to one of the accounts (because you are only playing one at a time, even if you are switching quickly between them)
Obviously the same thing. Both involve a character giving a person an advantage with out them having to be playing it.
If I'm paying for two accounts, how I access those two accounts (and when) is a private matter between my separate EVE client installs and my computer. If I want to play with my alt-tab keys, then I'll play with my alt-tab keys === Q u o t e: If the servers aren't up, its not a hotfix. |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:22:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nikla Uthaan
Quote:
They wouldn't. That doesn't mean they shouldnt however.
People shouldn't resort to violence to solve their problems. But people do. Welcome to life. Over here is the tutorial on breathing.
I made this post to spread the truths of the evils of alts. I fully realize no change will come from it. Im not trying to control what people do. Im trying to control how people think. ^___^
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:26:00 -
[24]
One alt is, in my opinion, fine.
The problem is these people who have an industry/mining alt, a mission running alt, a logistics alt for the mission runner, a carrier alt, a dreadnought alt, an R&D agent alt.. You get the picture
Their own personal ability to fart out hundreds of millions of ISK with no effort completely skews the scale for a lot of other people. Thus, other people are required to make alts to catch up.
I think one alt is fine. It means you have to really be careful with what you choose to do with it. Say you have a combat main, and you want a carrier but your alt is working on some science path. With only one alt you have to make a choice to train carriers on one side (most likely the combat). With several alts you can just pay extra money and keep everyone on their current skillplan.
--------- Friggin signature size limit. The Eve professions list |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:27:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Shinzann
Originally by: Vabjekf
Then how about this. 1 Account per person. 1 character slot per account. Paying extra gets you extra character slots. You can only log onto one at a time, but the other slots can train simultaniously with each other.
Yes.
Quote:
People can see what characters are on the same account as any of these characters.
No. If I'm going to pay extra for another character slot, I might not want it to be readily known that it's on the same account as my main.
Quote:
Yes, i am clearly most understanding and compassionate. I can understand the desire to have multiple characters given eves unique character advancement modle. However dual boxing is the same as macroing. Observe.
One account with a macro. Is a person getting benefit from an account with out having to do anything.
Two accounts dual boxing, is a single person getting benefit from an account with out having to do anything to one of the accounts (because you are only playing one at a time, even if you are switching quickly between them)
Obviously the same thing. Both involve a character giving a person an advantage with out them having to be playing it.
If I'm paying for two accounts, how I access those two accounts (and when) is a private matter between my separate EVE client installs and my computer. If I want to play with my alt-tab keys, then I'll play with my alt-tab keys
And if i want to pay an army of chinese farmers for trillions of isk so i can hire every mercenary to attack you, specifically, at all times. Then thats between me and my army of chinese farmers! I give them health care! Really i do!
metagamer. Thats what you are doing.
The game is contained within the client. If you play windowed and have the window aranged to be 5X5 pixles wide, then eve is 5X5 pixles wide.
You are approaching things as a PLAYER manipulating a PUPPET in game to accomplish your will. This is incorrect. You should be approaching it from within the confines of the game.
Your alts don't know they are your alts, they are all their own individual independent persons.
The very fact that some are more favored than others just makes me feel sorry for them.
Protect the rights of video game characters! Each one deserves its own player that is wholly focused on them.
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Mika Meroko
Minmatar Crayon Posting Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:36:00 -
[26]
I never said this to anyone before.. but..
you op, you fail....
this can only hurt CCP's wallet, and thats not good XD
and hey... CCP just sent me another power of two offer... that would make... 4 accounts if I do it now!!!!
....
yeah, totally opposite direction XD
and CCP will never go for it...
Originally by: CCP Atropos I pod people because there's money to be made in selling tears.
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Shinzann
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Vabjekf
And if i want to pay an army of chinese farmers for trillions of isk so i can hire every mercenary to attack you, specifically, at all times. Then thats between me and my army of chinese farmers! I give them health care! Really i do!
metagamer. Thats what you are doing.
The game is contained within the client. If you play windowed and have the window aranged to be 5X5 pixles wide, then eve is 5X5 pixles wide.
Actually, I have both clients running fullscreen. Adds an element of "metagamer" fun to see if one or both of the clients will crash while transitioning between them. And if you want to hire a bunch of ISK farmers, that's your money to spend.
Quote: You are approaching things as a PLAYER manipulating a PUPPET in game to accomplish your will. This is incorrect. You should be approaching it from within the confines of the game.
Your alts don't know they are your alts, they are all their own individual independent persons.
Actually, I do try to play my main and alt as they are two separate characters that know each other. But I admit that most folks don't try.
Quote: The very fact that some are more favored than others just makes me feel sorry for them.
Protect the rights of video game characters! Each one deserves its own player that is wholly focused on them.
=== Q u o t e: If the servers aren't up, its not a hotfix. |
Nikla Uthaan
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:40:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Their own personal ability to fart out hundreds of millions of ISK with no effort completely skews the scale for a lot of other people. Thus, other people are required to make alts to catch up.
You tried it? I wish it was no effort.
Quote:
I made this post to spread the truths of the evils of alts. I fully realize no change will come from it. Im not trying to control what people do. Im trying to control how people think. ^___^
So you think the game should be different, and everyone else should listen to you unconditionally. Right.
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security Cosmic Anomalies
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Nikla Uthaan
Quote:
Their own personal ability to fart out hundreds of millions of ISK with no effort completely skews the scale for a lot of other people. Thus, other people are required to make alts to catch up.
You tried it? I wish it was no effort.
Quote:
Well not no effort (obviously). But they can have a character doing invention, research, blueprint copies, manufacturing, in-station trading, etc, all these kinds of background jobs, while they run level 4's in easymode with a logistics alt. Properly assigned alts can pump out a lot of ISK very fast.
--------- Friggin signature size limit. The Eve professions list |
Riley Escobar
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:50:00 -
[30]
Lmfao who the **** is this guy, no capitals, no alts
You're right ccp does want to make less money, ...
Wait which way does life work?
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Riley Escobar
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Posted - 2008.10.03 03:57:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Riley Escobar on 03/10/2008 03:57:21
Originally by: Vabjekf Edited by: Vabjekf on 03/10/2008 02:55:55
Originally by: Treelox Funny how you had to use what appears to be an alt to make this post. I guess that prove the fallacy of you own point.
No sir ^____^
Ive been playing eve off and on since 05, but currently this is my one and only character. This is my original account also. I am MMORPG MASTAR VETARIN. I realize that in the end its all meaningless, so i have no trouble throwing away months or even years worth of work. I more than any can appreciate what being totally restricted to 1 character ever at a time means.
I have to warn people im just sitting in a station training now, and will be for several months. So if they decide to 'come after' me for anything i say on these forums they are in for a very boring time
Originally by: Vaal Erit And how would you enforce this?
Alts do the dirty, EXTREMELY boring tasks in eve. Like scouting, cyno'ing, etc, etc.
If they are that boring then they are obviously broken and should be removed or fixed by CCP.
Quote:
Also your train of thought is insanely trollish. You are like a troll train of ******ed thoughts. Please pass by the EVE stop and make your way to WoW, your final destination.
My technique is maximum.
LMFAO first of all im gonna state that I do not believe this is your MAIN char (hehe "Vabjekf" unfortunate name) but if it is then u have the unfortunate concequence of having to live with everyone know it was YOU who started this drop dead halarious post, my corp and I cant stop laughing
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 04:04:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Riley Escobar Lmfao who the **** is this guy, no capitals, no alts
You're right ccp does want to make less money, ...
Wait which way does life work?
I argue the game would be better off with out alts and give reasons and examples for this. Your counter is that CCP would lose money and therefore would never do it. That does not address my argument at all.
You get the salt, ill go grab my fishing rod.
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Myra2007
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.03 04:06:00 -
[33]
game would be boring without alts. absolutely boring :(
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 04:12:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Riley Escobar
LMFAO first of all im gonna state that I do not believe this is your MAIN char (hehe "Vabjekf" unfortunate name) but if it is then u have the unfortunate concequence of having to live with everyone know it was YOU who started this drop dead halarious post, my corp and I cant stop laughing
Do you think ill really become internet famous for this thread?
If its true ill be sure to mail you my autograph (~_^ )
Originally by: Myra2007 game would be boring without alts. absolutely boring :(
That sounds like a flaw with the game. Maybe CCP should work on that.
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2008.10.03 04:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Vabjekf I argue the game would be better off with out alts and give reasons and examples for this. Your counter is that CCP would lose money and therefore would never do it. That does not address my argument at all.
They're arguing that the game would be worse off without alts, but you're dismissing their argument. It's quite simple: if the EVE game has fewer players, the in-game economy suffers, the 0.0 game suffers (not enough people there anyway), it's a worse game. CCP has less money and less resources to throw at fixing lag, buying new blade servers, developing expansions, etc. Worse game.
But you're not getting any of this.
People who ask for "more hardcore" always think they're at the top of the "hardcore" PVP foodchain, but you are not. Nobody really is. Those who are at the bottom leave, and then the wolves start fighting each other for nofun. See lowsec as an example of this.
In any case, every other MMO out there is trying to make the death penalty less, levelling up faster, the player experience more pleasant. I think they've all thought about it and are doing it because it makes sense. You, on the other hand, are proposing the opposite, in the General Discussion forum of a 5 year old game.
Cause, yeah, we've never thought of this brilliant idea of yours, and the devs haven't either, and the devs of every other MMO and pretty much nobody in the industry has thought this through, and you're just special.
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Myra2007
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.03 04:35:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Myra2007 game would be boring without alts. absolutely boring :(
That sounds like a flaw with the game. Maybe CCP should work on that.
Not so sure. Personally i love playing different characters. Different characters are possibilities to explore different parts of the game. Less possibilities are always less fun at least for me. I've done mission running, exploration, invention, production and most of the different facets of pvp. I am sure there is still lots of stuff left to try and doing all with one character would convict him to absolute mediocrity.
For example this account holds 3 characters all of which have their own life and prospectives. One is an industrialist trying to make his fortune, one is a combat pilot dedicated to caldari ships and the third one is (oh lord) a production alt.
If i was to answer which my main is i seriously wouldn't know anyway(and its not my only characters either). But if i was suddenly forced to delete any two of them that would mean many many millions worth of sp down the drain. That is a thing people cancel accounts over. While you are just up in arms in the forums but still play the game.
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Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.03 04:40:00 -
[37]
it's a trooooooooll
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KTog Juriss
Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2008.10.03 04:41:00 -
[38]
One character, one account. This is an interesting concept. So with this sandbox and all the various skills in play, you want people to pick one role, and if after a month or two of training for it, it turns out they don't like it, they can just f*** off? Part of why a lot of people use multiple accounts is so they can get a feel for various styles of play without having to shift gears and wait 3 months while they train the new skills for it. This idea would trash that and cause a lot of people to simply lose interest in the game and leave.
Also, if people want to do the whole spy bit bad enough, whats to stop them from using gtc's with a fake name? Or using a spouse or friends info and credit card? Nothing really, so your plan has some serious issues before it gets started, unless you're also making a statement about Eve player's social lives here. |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.03 04:44:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Johli it's a trooooooooll
Shush. He has been very well mannered if a bit blindly insistance on his point of view.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Pilot Abilene
Caldari Serpentine Dream Theory
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Posted - 2008.10.03 04:52:00 -
[40]
In the OP's defense *cough* I do believe CCP regret allowing us to have 3 characters on one account...far too late to ever change anything now though after all these years. Personally I wouldn't have anything against alts "IF" they were on their own paid account...but like I said you can't change any of that now.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 05:06:00 -
[41]
Originally by: KTog Juriss One character, one account. This is an interesting concept. So with this sandbox and all the various skills in play, you want people to pick one role, and if after a month or two of training for it, it turns out they don't like it, they can just f*** off? Part of why a lot of people use multiple accounts is so they can get a feel for various styles of play without having to shift gears and wait 3 months while they train the new skills for it. This idea would trash that and cause a lot of people to simply lose interest in the game and leave.
If you end up not liking whatever play style then you should not play it.
Your argument about it helping people pick a role is kind of interesting, but i would say that if everyone had had multiple accounts was interviewed, you would find out that most of them only got said accounts AFTER they had decided on their main, for other purposes (research, mining, whatever)
However this was still a consideration, and a few posts back i was willing to concede this and allow multiple training character to exist simultaniously, as long as only one could be played at a time. This is kind of unfair however because it makes some kinds of alts just as useful as they would have been previously, and others useless.
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Also, if people want to do the whole spy bit bad enough, whats to stop them from using gtc's with a fake name? Or using a spouse or friends info and credit card? Nothing really, so your plan has some serious issues before it gets started, unless you're also making a statement about Eve player's social lives here.
As far as GTC i proposed we get rid of them altogether, or at least get rid of selling them for isk. As far as buying a GTC for private use or using someone else information. These are things that do make it more difficult. However drawing on my past experience with games that use a setup like this (its not like i just made this idea up), by making it bannable there is always the risk of getting caught.
So no you cant stop anything, but you can make it difficult enough that it is discouraged, and the extra complication of doing it that most people do not want to deal with will make the social mindset shift, and contribute to pressuring people into not doing it or risk being ostracized by their peers.
Originally by: Letouk Mernel
They're arguing that the game would be worse off without alts, but you're dismissing their argument. It's quite simple: if the EVE game has fewer players, the in-game economy suffers, the 0.0 game suffers (not enough people there anyway), it's a worse game. CCP has less money and less resources to throw at fixing lag, buying new blade servers, developing expansions, etc. Worse game.
By your reasoning they should just make the game a total carebear heaven and give out a bunch of free easymode pills and win buttons to attract more players. The number of people who quit in disgust will be more than made up for by the number of people who decide to join their ultimate grindan easymode spaceship game. Particularaly once ambulation comes out. Or maybe thats what they are trying to do=p
Maybe im just strange. I started playing mmos before EQ, before UO even. I still like to think people run MMOS based on how they think the game should be, not just based on how they think they can make the most money off of it.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.10.03 05:13:00 -
[42]
I don't think he's a troll, I think he's spot on.
Imagine having a small sized fleet of about 15 people sitting on a nosec gate. Call the alt to sacrifice his life and see what's inside!No, send one of your fleetmates into the gate to see what's inside. Usually this would be relegated to like an interceptor or well-equipped pilot.
But people don't seem to think that through much. They just fire up the alt and send him in.
Twenty jumps away from somewhere and want to see what's going on but don't feel like going there? Log in your alt and see what's going on! Travel the twenty jumps using your time -- sacrifice your curiosity or go spend the time to find out.
Having a drought of targets as a pirate, but want isk and can't get your -10.0 char into highsec to run missions; let alone tarnish the -10.0? Use an alt to do it! Realize the consequences of your actions of being a pirate prevent you from the creature comforts that highsec provide.
There's more, but that is a few of the ones that I see most. Alts are a plague in EVE because everybody has one (practically speaking) in one way or another. Whether it be a seperate account or a same account alt, they infest EVE with metagaming.
Metagaming can be found defined here (highlighting a key note about alts in EVE):
Originally by: "Wikipedia article on Metagaming"
"Role-playing games
Main article: Metagaming (role-playing games)
In role-playing games, metagaming is a term often used to describe players' use of assumed characteristics of the game. In particular, metagaming often refers to having a character act on knowledge that only the player has access to (such as tricking a medusa to stare at a mirror when the character has never even heard of medusas and should not be aware of their petrifying stare). For instance, a player might adjust his character's actions if the player has some foreknowledge of the long-term intentions of the gamemaster, or, more commonly, the GM's tendency to have (or not to have) mercy on players whose characters do things that would cause them to fail at their objectives."
This failure to act without repercussions is what causes alt metagaming to be the problem that it is.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 05:25:00 -
[43]
I must point out that the purpose of this thread is not to suggest that CCP do any of this, If that were the case i would have put it in the forum designated as the repository for such recommendations.
It is instead to try and show how things could have been if things were different.
By discussing this 'alternate universe EVE' we can accomplish much. By first surrendering your stubbornness or arguing against me simply to avoid the shame of you yourself being such an undesirable meta gaming lowlife as to game the game in such a way (don't worry, i wont judge you, i accept everyone as they are ^___^), we can get to the real issue.
And this, by the way, is why arguments of how this is a bad idea because it would not work to change it now are meaningless, as i again am not suggestion it be changed now, though perhaps in discussion other things that could be changed may popup...
But the purpose of this is to illustrate my point and way of thinking, that once accepted as infallible, will plant the seed of understanding the hidden ways of the mmo. So that one day you or someone else may find themselves designing one, and remember what old vabjekf has said. And imagine your game-to-be in a variety of ways, and suddenly realize that flowing my instruction on this matter you will create a more enjoyable experience. -- Or perhaps you will identify WHY eve would have been a more enjoyable experience in this context and chose to eliminate the reasons that alts can be exploitative rather than remove the alts.
Facts and instances come and go. Points of knowledge change, are updated, are refuted, replaced, and modified. But an understanding of the system of things, the patterns and movements underlying the all can not be subject to these forces because it is an objective and undeniable truth based not on faulty experience or observation of one specific matter or another, but rather because it is the clear and obvious structure that all things are built upon.
Post above mine is a good example as to how entire aspects of the game are just IGNORED because of alts. Maybe someones character and ship would have been tailored specifically to enable them to go through that gate and check things out and hopefully survive (would probably have to do something about smartbombs though). That persons profession could just be an information gathering character. Useful to its gang because it can scout. It would probably also be able to probe. That would be its role! But no. Just use an alt for it now.
If that was a commonly accepted 'profession', there would be much more pressure (and incentive) for CCP to boost probing and maybe add more 'scouting' content to the game, thus enhancing it further!
But since everyones 'real' character just sits in a big gunboat so they can get the killmail while their alts do all the legwork, there is no reason for ccp to do anything about it.
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.03 05:27:00 -
[44]
I can name THREE good reasons as to why multiple accounts and alts are fine.
1. burning bridges - Okay, so you've made a lot of enemies in 0.0 in lowsec. enough that you're pretty much down to NPC corps to keep safe. your character is a year or two old. you'd like to get back into it, but given your previous mistakes, there's no chance with that character. however, all those trained skills for ratting and missioning are still quite handy. With being able to get an alt/second account/buy a character for isk, you can retire one and play on in EVE (and possibly give CCP more money
2. wrong career path/boredom salvation - My second account (currently inactive due to financial reasons) has better stats, and is far more focused. my main is more of a "screw around and train what I like" character. My alt has a very strict set progression of skills to ensure that worst comes to worst, I can fufill a role for every type of ship, from Battleship monster to a fast nano-recon like a rapier. Likewise, my alt has such good battleship skills if I get bored of 0.0 for a while, I'll pop onto my alt and do highsec level 4s for a while if I'm camped into a station or the area is too hot to risk jumping out into where I need to go until things cool down a bit.
3. as to your silly metagame argument, when I play D&D (yes, dungeons and dragons, good old pen and paper with books kind) I'm not my character entirely. I view it as a set of skills, feats, class levels and racial features. Most people who play D&D view it as this. Metagaming is fine. Most fantasy and RPG universe are silly anyway to get into it, and IMO EVE is one of them. Its perfectly fine to have mechanics in place for no other reason then metagame balance and fairness. Its a Game, not the real world. (such as being able to leave your current character and play another.)
Another one bites the dust. |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 05:44:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kage Psychodin I can name THREE good reasons as to why multiple accounts and alts are fine.
1. burning bridges - Okay, so you've made a lot of enemies in 0.0 in lowsec. enough that you're pretty much down to NPC corps to keep safe. your character is a year or two old. you'd like to get back into it, but given your previous mistakes, there's no chance with that character. however, all those trained skills for ratting and missioning are still quite handy. With being able to get an alt/second account/buy a character for isk, you can retire one and play on in EVE (and possibly give CCP more money
You should be more careful, and if people are that spiteful you probably dont want to be their friends anyway. Though based on these forums i find it more probable that people make enemies because they themselves are the jackasses, not the people who become angry at them. Probably due to the general atitude players of the game tend to have BECAUSE of alts. People are not naturally callous or jaded, alts probably did this to them. You are basically saying then that the existance of alts creates a game enviornment in which alts are needed. Thats true, and is a good reason to get rid of them.
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2. wrong career path/boredom salvation - My second account (currently inactive due to financial reasons) has better stats, and is far more focused. my main is more of a "screw around and train what I like" character. My alt has a very strict set progression of skills to ensure that worst comes to worst, I can fufill a role for every type of ship, from Battleship monster to a fast nano-recon like a rapier. Likewise, my alt has such good battleship skills if I get bored of 0.0 for a while, I'll pop onto my alt and do highsec level 4s for a while if I'm camped into a station or the area is too hot to risk jumping out into where I need to go until things cool down a bit.
Again citing that the game is too boring to play with a single character is an argument that the game should not be so boring. Not that its good for everyone to have alts.
A good comparison to this is the EQ style endgame (which is the one WoW uses, and most other new mmos). The raiding in those games usually result in guild raid schedules, and much time that nothing is going on and you have nothing to do on your 'main'. So you 'level up another alt' to kill time. I would argue that a game should never force you to roll a new character just to keep from getting bored with it. You should only have to roll a new character if you are tired of playing your current one full stop, and want to abandon it.
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3. as to your silly metagame argument, when I play D&D (yes, dungeons and dragons, good old pen and paper with books kind) I'm not my character entirely. I view it as a set of skills, feats, class levels and racial features. Most people who play D&D view it as this. Metagaming is fine. Most fantasy and RPG universe are silly anyway to get into it, and IMO EVE is one of them. Its perfectly fine to have mechanics in place for no other reason then metagame balance and fairness. Its a Game, not the real world. (such as being able to leave your current character and play another.)
When i walk down the street I am not myself. I am observing this person walking down the street. The person acts as it should, greeting the people it passes, smiling. Looking both ways while crossing the road. Sometimes i think to myself "yes this person has done a good job at walking down the street", other times i say "that last greeting was kind of awkward, maybe that could be improved on".
The point im trying to make is, your actions should be based on what actions are proper. This does not involve your mind at all. You can 'be seperate' from your character, just like you can 'be seperate' from your body.
I fully understand not being one of those people who become too involved in the game. But saying its either or, strict roleplay or metagaming is wrong.
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Marie Duvolle
United Sentients
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Posted - 2008.10.03 05:45:00 -
[46]
There's lots of people here so protective of what they have and/or incapable of of discussing and really thinking about a subject or idea, it's amazing.
What he proposes is radical, yes and not at all in the interest of CCP, yes. BUT it touches an interesting idea, and it would require people to actually start to work together (this is an MMO afterall?) instead of logging on alt #3. Also, as stated, there would be some responsibility and ownership for your character.
Radical? yes. Feasable? no probably not. Intersting? very much. And before you even try; In the short time I've been here I opened up my 4th account, because it gives me benefits.
Don't stir the hornet's nest |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.03 05:53:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Vabjekf There would be no more threat of 'alt spies'. Newer players would have an easier time intigrating into the community and not run off after a month or so. 0.0 would open up for neutral characters since the general trust level of the game has gone up. They would bring trade. There would be empire prices in 0.0. The extra movement between high sec and 0.0 would populate low sec and pirates would have more targets. The extra activity in general in low sec would make it safer bringing more mission runners to low sec and even miners.
There would be no falcon alts. No probe alts. No forum alts. If you wanted to scam you would do it on your main.
Alts are what kills low sec. Alts are what destroys pvp. Alts are what screw up politics.
Just get rid of every single alt. I don't care how. Ask god to do it. But every alt should die.
Buff amarr.
Send me - in cash (ú sterling, please) - the sub money I've paid on my 2 extra accounts and I'll biomass my characters on them and cancel those accounts.
Since that's the loss you're asking me to take to play the game the way you think I should be playing it, I think it's fair to see if you think it's worth paying.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 06:02:00 -
[48]
Its like two posts up made one post up appear just to emphasize its point. Oh universe! You never let me down.
Or maybe everyone who has posted in this thread, is just my alt. ¼_¼
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.03 06:12:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Vabjekf Its like two posts up made one post up appear just to emphasize its point. Oh universe! You never let me down.
Or maybe everyone who has posted in this thread, is just my alt. ¼_¼
I take it this means you wont be sending me the money?
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 06:24:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Vabjekf on 03/10/2008 06:25:24
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Vabjekf Its like two posts up made one post up appear just to emphasize its point. Oh universe! You never let me down.
Or maybe everyone who has posted in this thread, is just my alt. ¼_¼
I take it this means you wont be sending me the money?
That would probably be against the EULA somewhere.
Besides as previously implied, stated, and/or suggested elsewhere im not asking you to do what you want to charge me for. But nearly outlining the reason why that is the optimal state of the game and anyone who does not lead a life of pure holy altlessness is simply taking up evil upon themselves to fit in with the evils of the system currently. Clearly common people cant be expected to resist, nor can a theif stealing food so he does not starve be blamed. But actions need to comply with ideology. In fact if your actions DO comply with what you believe in its probably more a sign that you have compromised your idea or rightness to correspond with what you are comfortable preforming.
But I did consider it momentarily for a mostly unrelated reason... just to try and visualize if it would be a worthwhile boost to my internet fame. Then i realized people probably wouldn't bother remembering me as 'that person who payed the guy to delete his alts'. So i decided against it.
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Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
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Posted - 2008.10.03 06:31:00 -
[51]
Fact is, alts are too consequence free right now. There should be something done about it, but this may not be the best solution.
One thing i saw in another game was a 7 day deletion period, which would probably work quite well to make people think about what characters they make.
EVE History Wiki
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.03 06:42:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Kage Psychodin on 03/10/2008 06:43:43 Vabjekf, to my first point again - it is exactly that. You need the power to unjackassify yourself from the universe, without needing to reroll. Its a game. One of the few benefits of it being a game, and not real life is that you can do such a thing. being able to play one new character and receive financial benefits from your older character so if the situation occurs, is a good thing.
to my second point - We all would like to improve the gameplay, but if I'm stuck in station at 0.0, there's nothing I can do, aside from - Logout, or play another character. the more time I'm stuck logged out, the more I consider my subscription ar all (and that's not good.)
third point - I wasn't trying to argue that the strict either or, but exactly that, it MUST be some blend or some middle ground. I mean, its perfectly fine if you're in a hot system to jump next door to clear aggro, set warp to a planet, and logout (you'll hit the end destination, emergency warp, and then logoff and there ain't a crack probe pilot who will be able to scan you down long before it's too late usually.)
(just to add, yes, I do think falcon and logistics and scouting alts are fine. )
Another one bites the dust. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.03 06:54:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Vabjekf There would be no more threat of 'alt spies'. Newer players would have an easier time intigrating into the community and not run off after a month or so. 0.0 would open up for neutral characters since the general trust level of the game has gone up. They would bring trade. There would be empire prices in 0.0. The extra movement between high sec and 0.0 would populate low sec and pirates would have more targets. The extra activity in general in low sec would make it safer bringing more mission runners to low sec and even miners.
There would be no falcon alts. No probe alts. No forum alts. If you wanted to scam you would do it on your main.
Alts are what kills low sec. Alts are what destroys pvp. Alts are what screw up politics.
Just get rid of every single alt. I don't care how. Ask god to do it. But every alt should die.
Buff amarr.
I currently have 3 different internet address. I can easily increase that number with free address. So what will stop me from having more accounts?
I can declare that I have x sons, each one of them want a EVE account (they will not share, it is against the EULA), again what is stopping me form having more than 1 account?
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Aodha Khan
Minmatar The Paratwa FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.03 06:54:00 -
[54]
Alts have been a problem since day 1. CCP will not change it now. I agree that for gameplay reasons no alts would be an improvement but just imagine the whining ....
Alternatively CCP could start a new server with a hard-core Eve.
Paratwa Recruitment |
Aodha Khan
Minmatar The Paratwa FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.03 06:57:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Aodha Khan on 03/10/2008 07:15:12
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I currently have 3 different internet address. I can easily increase that number with free address. So what will stop me from having more accounts?
If your paying for that account then the character has skills training and it will actually matter when he dies a sorry death for sitting 200km off a camp spying on it for his alliance of choice.
Having a non-training alt means that you dont mind if he gets killed over and over again. No risk. WoW style.
Paratwa Recruitment |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:03:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kage Psychodin Edited by: Kage Psychodin on 03/10/2008 06:43:43 Vabjekf, to my first point again - it is exactly that. You need the power to unjackassify yourself from the universe, without needing to reroll. Its a game. One of the few benefits of it being a game, and not real life is that you can do such a thing. being able to play one new character and receive financial benefits from your older character so if the situation occurs, is a good thing.
Being able to change your characters name and not have to worry about retraining a whole new one would be even better!
Im all for payed name changes. If there is a petition give me a link ill sign it!
Quote:
to my second point - We all would like to improve the gameplay, but if I'm stuck in station at 0.0, there's nothing I can do, aside from - Logout, or play another character. the more time I'm stuck logged out, the more I consider my subscription ar all (and that's not good.)
Stuck in a station you say? Seems to me that thats a problem there. Not 'not having an alt to play while stuck in a station'.
You are finding things that can somehow be fixed with alts, or rather will become 'more broken than they currently are' with out them, and citing them as actual benefits of alts. They are actually holes that people stuff alts into to try and patch.
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third point - I wasn't trying to argue that the strict either or, but exactly that, it MUST be some blend or some middle ground. I mean, its perfectly fine if you're in a hot system to jump next door to clear aggro, set warp to a planet, and logout (you'll hit the end destination, emergency warp, and then logoff and there ain't a crack probe pilot who will be able to scan you down long before it's too late usually.)
(just to add, yes, I do think falcon and logistics and scouting alts are fine. )
Your definition of middle ground is different from mine. You would move the character towards you, and move yourself towards the character. I would keep both seperate, but functioning simultaniously. Its hard to explain i think. I suppose we could try to work out exacly what i mean. It would probably require many examples of things. Maybe its simple, try this. I compel the character to move within the game towards ends that i the player deem desirable. I do not have the character meet me half way, feet in the game but torso sticking out of the monitor. This means that i approach everything from within, but understand the greater workings from without.
Or more clearly. You should never do anything in the game your character could not do in the game. Things your character could do in the game, you can use whatever knowledge the player has to make it as perfect/broken/overpowered as possible.
And maybe in most situations the resulting action would be identical. But they are not identical things, because an action is only a small thing tacked to the end of a long chain of thoughts and perceptions and workings. Again, what you think and how you think is more important than what you do. This is a recurring theme when dealing with Vabjekf.
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Kuolematon
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:14:00 -
[57]
One char per account was something what Neocron did eons ago.
Due to this, I had to get two accounts but back then dualboxin' was something new and I was always thrilled about having personal PPU slave healing my ass off.
Good times.
But this dosen't work in EVE. What about disposal suicide alts, forum alts, cyno alts(which actually drains time from main char!) etc???
"The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of goldcrap"
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:18:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
I currently have 3 different internet address. I can easily increase that number with free address. So what will stop me from having more accounts?
Well, assuming we were actually going to implement this. What would happen is that the built in mechanisms set an obvious intent to enforce policy. You then bypass that, and can not complain when/if you ever get found out and banned.
Quote:
I can declare that I have x sons, each one of them want a EVE account (they will not share, it is against the EULA), again what is stopping me form having more than 1 account?
Depends on how things are specifically handled. I have seen games where in this case (if it were true) you would be just out of luck. I have seen others where exceptions are made for specific cases. If you were getting around the system, and never did exploitative things that made it easy to notice you would be fine. Ive known people who share accounts and they never get in trouble because they keep quiet about it =p
Of course there is always what i mentioned earlier. By making it a hassle for most people to do it, it will limit the number of people who do it. If most of the community is unable to do it, they will quickly change their mindset to one that anyone who is doing it gains an unfair advantage over them and they will pressure people not into doing it. Doing it will be a dirty thing, that you don't mention and hope your friends don't fight out about. That weight and shame and paranoia is enough for me to be satisfied.
But again, the purpose of this thread was not to recommend CCP flat out do this. Its actualy going quite well. A few people have commented and provided further insight into what things would be like with no alts and how the game would be better. Using actual thinking and examples demonstrating their abilities.
Being able to visualize such things is important. Because it signifies the knowing of the pattern behind all.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:30:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Privacy laws, CCP would be putting up for a world of hurt doing this.
You are going to have to be more specific than that.
None of these specific things i mention are made up by me. Ive taken them all from my past experiences with countless games. I only suggest things that I know work because ive seen them.
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Delichon
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:33:00 -
[60]
The OP is right.
Eve should not be "a second job that you have to pay for." It should be "the only job that you have (and you have to pay for)."
The OP should be elected for all seat of CSM immidiately. ------------------------------------------ All nerfs are meant to hurt you personally. They will be nerfing you directly next.
EVE A new game every 6 months. (c) Atomos Darksun |
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Viliny
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:37:00 -
[61]
The continuing offers of "Power of two" don't help your case at all... CCP wants us all to have 5 accounts.
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:37:00 -
[62]
again, first point, I don't want name changes. I don't want any mechanical changes at all. I like the way things work rather well as far as character names and alts work. alternate characters exist as meta. its fine for that purpose, its a game. Many things like super concord were designed from that very perspective to keep highsec safe when not even the Borg could come close to that level of efficiency (and having a god GM hand in play just to punish those who do evade concord, somehow.)
second point again - I play world of warcraft as well (at the moment playing it more since I hadn't in almost a year) and when I'm on a PvP server, you know what I do in the odd chance I get corpse camped? Logoff, and log onto another server, another character so my boredom ceases. in EVE and WoW, there are many times in which I will be powerless to remedy the situation like being camped, regardless. Being able to logout and switch to something else my opponents can't target is good. they're not after me after all, they're after my character!
third - as I said, its a game. Things in for convinience, actions that are purely meta because you can look up a guidebook, strategy guide online, etc are perfectly fine. Logging out in a system with no stations to use the ability to vanish in space and stop being a target because you could see on your alt 3 jumps up to a chokepoint that hostiles are incoming, is A-OK given the way how broken actual mechanics are to defend yourself while earning money. Another one bites the dust. |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:42:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Viliny The continuing offers of "Power of two" don't help your case at all... CCP wants us all to have 5 accounts.
Its like people don't even bother reading the thread before responding to it. ^____^ Who would have thought? On the internet!
Originally by: Delichon The OP is right.
Eve should not be "a second job that you have to pay for." It should be "the only job that you have (and you have to pay for)."
The OP should be elected for all seat of CSM immidiately.
Finally someone recognizes my brilliance! I always knew i was special. The girls used to think i was strange throwing quarters at them, but it helped me learn how people work. (you have to put the coins in the slots and then turn the little thing and the egg pops out)
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:49:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Kage Psychodin again, first point, I don't want name changes. I don't want any mechanical changes at all. I like the way things work rather well as far as character names and alts work. alternate characters exist as meta. its fine for that purpose, its a game. Many things like super concord were designed from that very perspective to keep highsec safe when not even the Borg could come close to that level of efficiency (and having a god GM hand in play just to punish those who do evade concord, somehow.)
You feel safe because you know how things work and you dont want them to be messed with.
That concord thing however is somewhat meaningful, that's the only real approach i see to arguing against me, but first you would have to figure out a way to associate what i want with me wanting 'realism', and then show how concord is not 'realistic'. And that sort of argument rarely fairs well in games.
Quote:
second point again - I play world of warcraft as well (at the moment playing it more since I hadn't in almost a year) and when I'm on a PvP server, you know what I do in the odd chance I get corpse camped? Logoff, and log onto another server, another character so my boredom ceases. in EVE and WoW, there are many times in which I will be powerless to remedy the situation like being camped, regardless. Being able to logout and switch to something else my opponents can't target is good. they're not after me after all, they're after my character!
Thats a bad example because pvp in WoW is a joke, and doubly so on gank servers. Also comparing a mechanic in eve with one in WoW is not a smart move ^____^ And saying eve is fine because its pvp is like WoWs pvp would probably make you enemies somewhere.
Quote:
third - as I said, its a game. Things in for convinience, actions that are purely meta because you can look up a guidebook, strategy guide online, etc are perfectly fine. Logging out in a system with no stations to use the ability to vanish in space and stop being a target because you could see on your alt 3 jumps up to a chokepoint that hostiles are incoming, is A-OK given the way how broken actual mechanics are to defend yourself while earning money.
Thats right, actual mechanics are broken. That is another thread however.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:53:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Vabjekf Edited by: Vabjekf on 03/10/2008 06:25:56
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Vabjekf Its like two posts up made one post up appear just to emphasize its point. Oh universe! You never let me down.
Or maybe everyone who has posted in this thread, is just my alt. ¼_¼
I take it this means you wont be sending me the money?
That would probably be against the EULA somewhere.
Besides as previously implied, stated, and/or suggested elsewhere im not asking you to do what you want to charge me for. But nearly outlining the reason why that is the optimal state of the game and anyone who does not lead a life of pure holy altlessness is simply taking up evil upon themselves to fit in with the evils of the system currently. Clearly common people cant be expected to resist, nor can a theif stealing food so he does not starve be blamed. But actions need not comply with ideology. In fact if your actions DO comply with what you believe in its probably more a sign that you have compromised your idea or rightness to correspond with what you are comfortable preforming.
But I did consider it momentarily for a mostly unrelated reason... just to try and visualize if it would be a worthwhile boost to my internet fame. Then i realized people probably wouldn't bother remembering me as 'that person who payed the guy to delete his alts'. So i decided against it.
Haha good answer!
But consider: I, personally (and I realise that you have nothing to "prove" this except my word and the difficulty of finding anyone to plausibly assert otherwise) do not use my alts to forum-shitpost scam, spy, pirate or steal. I use them to "catch up" to older players and train more skills faster. To a certain extent they increase my earning potential, but in practice the delta is pretty minimal most of the time. The only real exception being scouting with my main for my alt in a Blockade Runner - which I cba to do any more. I've found that being "rich" is more convenient than necessary.
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Kathryn Dougans
Amarr B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:57:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Vabjekf The girls used to think i was strange throwing quarters at them, but it helped me learn how people work. (you have to put the coins in the slots and then turn the little thing and the egg pops out)
Wait, what?
Don't ask me about the cows. |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 07:57:00 -
[67]
I used an alt to hold my money when i got rid of my last character and made this one.
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.03 08:01:00 -
[68]
Vabjekf, don't evade my second question. Any form of PvP costs you something. even if its the simple act of running to your body, and then possibly dying again before you had a chance.(time) Being camped is being camped. it causes a loss of time, and boredom. In WoW I can log off and play a different character. I should be able to do the same here as I do. That is one of the benefits of playing a console or computer game. (at least a benefit I feel exists and SHOULD exist.
third question - I don't feel those mechanics are broken at all. Quite a few are unfair, broken balance wise in case of ship power and such, perhaps. (it is solely up to CCP though) However, given the power of Two offers, its not so much that "No alts one account" is really even a valid way to approach the problem. Just look at the offer. CCP really DID design mechanics and perhaps even alt scouting, and the ability to hide and cook level 4s for a hundred mil a day in NPC corps as their actual intent. Thet are the sole arbiters on it, and given this is a game, its not erm...fallacious? for them to think and decree so. Another one bites the dust. |
Carniflex
Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.10.03 08:41:00 -
[69]
Well. Getting rid of alts would give some good results indeed, however it is not going to happen bcos how integrated are alts already in EVE. And ofc poor noobs would cry even harder if guys with 8 accounts get 'condensed' into one 'ubercharacter' with 200 mil SP.
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ramzahn
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.10.03 09:00:00 -
[70]
My first introduction to role-playing games happened in the form of the "Eye of the Beholder" games from Westwood. I, regrettably, never knew the classical Pen & Paper variant.
For me that implied always steering a group of adventurers through dark and dangerous dungeons. I came to love that aspect. Caring for a group, multitasking them, and having the power of their different strengths, but also had to observe their personal weaknesses.
Operating with an "Alt" brings part of that multitasking (and multi-personal) demand back to me. And I like that.
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Newbear
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Posted - 2008.10.03 09:12:00 -
[71]
Preposterous! One account per person is like having only one wife! How can you live off the income of just one woman? You westerners are so strange. Click here for my High Security POS Service
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Metaller
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.10.03 11:30:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Alts are what kills low sec. Alts are what destroys pvp. Alts are what screw up politics.
you have no idea! Ever tried living as -5.0 sec status in low sec? Alts are your only way to get supplies into low sec. And you need alot of supplies for low sec if you do pvp.
Low sec would be much emptier if those alts werent there.
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Euriti
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.03 12:17:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Euriti on 03/10/2008 12:18:33 I'd quit if I couldn't have my second pvp char or my trade/industry alts.
I'd quit if I couldn't get personal logistics to low sec as a pirate.
I'd quit if ratting was my only isk making ability.
OP you are dumb.
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EglantinFinfleur
Ecpyrosis
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Posted - 2008.10.03 13:06:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Kage Psychodin
3. as to your silly metagame argument, when I play D&D (yes, dungeons and dragons, good old pen and paper with books kind) I'm not my character entirely. I view it as a set of skills, feats, class levels and racial features. Most people who play D&D view it as this. Metagaming is fine. Most fantasy and RPG universe are silly anyway to get into it, and IMO EVE is one of them. Its perfectly fine to have mechanics in place for no other reason then metagame balance and fairness. Its a Game, not the real world. (such as being able to leave your current character and play another.)
Are you really sure it's still a game? The lowest and most philistine internet instrument -wikipedia-, tells us that according to the definition of a game, it has the followings elements, amongst others: - separate: it is circumscribed in time and place - uncertain: the outcome of the activity is unforeseeable - governed by rules: the activity has rules that are different from everyday life - fictitious: it is accompanied by the awareness of a different reality
Clearly not circumscribed when you multi-box. Clearly not uncertain when you scout with alt, have alts docked ready to save your butt. Clearly not governed by different rules from everyday life when more money means more characters (for multiple boxes and accounts). And more importantly, clearly not fictitious: Most people don't play a game, they enact themselves or their unrestrained behavior, through a virtual world. Just like Goons don't play EvE but Something Awful, most players just want to get ahead of some other player -not played character-, by any means necessary. This is why this virtual world is called a griefer's paradise. For example, you can alt bait and alt gank to get your kicks, knowing that the harsh consequences are only in it for the other fool, who hasn't got alts to scout/bail him out. In this case, you haven't outplayed a character through your own character, you've taken advantage of different standards, rules being different for the two players (one has alts, the other not). As Vabjekf truthfully stated, players can get away with being jackasses and go all the way becoming them, because they can use alts and transfer their persona to another ingame character.
Originally by: Kage Psychodin
third question - I don't feel those mechanics are broken at all. Quite a few are unfair, broken balance wise in case of ship power and such, perhaps. (it is solely up to CCP though) However, given the power of Two offers, its not so much that "No alts one account" is really even a valid way to approach the problem. Just look at the offer. CCP really DID design mechanics and perhaps even alt scouting, and the ability to hide and cook level 4s for a hundred mil a day in NPC corps as their actual intent. Thet are the sole arbiters on it, and given this is a game, its not erm...fallacious? for them to think and decree so.
Do you really want to know while you're being camped in 0.0, unable to undock from you alliance base? That's because half of the guys in your alliance, upon seeing raiders entering the area with an adequate force, just dock and log their alt to run level 4 missions in highsec space. Also, do you want to know why 0.0 life is total garbage and the relations between players so lamentable? - One account one alt players mine/rat to get isk - They get flak for making money from the real pvpers, who alt-run missions in highsec and don't engage till they have twice the numbers of their opponent - First group of players gets ganked in belts, gets called stupid by second group who weren't protecting their space but running missions, while waiting for first group of players to get in pvp ships to go and roam.
Apart from the horrendous gameplay issues alt creates, they really make the general behavior of the average player in this game to get worse and worse. I wouldn't have predicted Loftys at release for example.
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Plim
Gallente Oursulaert Technology Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.03 13:21:00 -
[75]
This exact same thread appears every month or so.
I say we allow 0 of these threads per account.
Rudolf: "I was sworn to absolute secrecy by Santa Claus." |
Black Tahee1
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Posted - 2008.10.03 14:08:00 -
[76]
NC alt spotted who is ****ed off losing all their stuff because spies on their networks let the enemy know what they are doing.
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Frances Ducoir
Gallente Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.03 14:52:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 03/10/2008 14:54:23
Originally by: Tiberius Maddox It's hard to overstate just how much more meaningful and gritty EVE's gameplay would be if everyone had a single character. Everyone would then have to face the consequences of his/her actions, both good and bad. Bounty hunting would work. Scammers would actually have to think before acting. Fleet warfare might just evolve into something a little more meaningful than a godawful blob/lagfest from hell.
Sadly, I see no desire on CCP's part to make this happen, and it probably would be impossible anyway.
So... the EVE universe will continue on its present path.
THIS!
i think 1 alt is ok, but NO multiple accounts.
additionaly, the character with less skillpoints should get an "alt" flag, and the one with more skillpoints a "main" flag. ofc thats not a 100% secure identifier, because ppl could just skill their "alt" to have more sp, but at least this needs some effort.
this would give ppl the possibilty to say "show me your main, and i'll trust you". ppl would finally have to take the consequences for their actions.
*snip* Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch |
Trovax
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.03 15:25:00 -
[78]
Multiple toons allow people to play eve when they get war dec'd for no reason at all and they did not want or do not want to participate in said war.
They also allow those that DO want to participate in wars to get themselves a new ship from high sec without having to worry about gettin shot down so they can go have fun again. If peeps couldn't do that THEN there would be no one to fight, and eve would become quiet (as the OP suggested). Its so easy to declare war these days and costs peanuts (which i think should be revised by CCP to reflect todays eve universe), and not everyone want to be involved.
Why should those war dec'in have all the fun when we all pay the same to play eve?
I think the OP is being selfish and hasnt thought enough about his post.
In some cases, its cheaper to declare war than it is to rent an office. Surely that cant be right? Theres a few things that need to be brought up to date in todays eve universe, but either they have no plans to do so, or they just have alot to do and things are in the works. We all know the CCP gods work their thrusters off to bring us an ever evolving gaming universe.
anyways, think ive put my point accross (maybe not clearly, i have a hard time putting thoughts into words ) "I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant" |
Traidor Disloyal
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2008.10.03 15:26:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Vabjekf There would be no more threat of 'alt spies'. Newer players would have an easier time intigrating into the community and not run off after a month or so. 0.0 would open up for neutral characters since the general trust level of the game has gone up. They would bring trade. There would be empire prices in 0.0. The extra movement between high sec and 0.0 would populate low sec and pirates would have more targets. The extra activity in general in low sec would make it safer bringing more mission runners to low sec and even miners.
There would be no falcon alts. No probe alts. No forum alts. If you wanted to scam you would do it on your main.
Has my next trick I will have world peace.
--------------------------------------------- Love is having a second account with a cov ops pilot |
Planks
Unjustified Ancients of MuMu
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Posted - 2008.10.03 15:28:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Zeba Die.
/signed
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LT Kayvaan
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Posted - 2008.10.03 15:30:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Tiberius Maddox It's hard to overstate just how much more meaningful and gritty EVE's gameplay would be if everyone had a single character. Everyone would then have to face the consequences of his/her actions, both good and bad. Bounty hunting would work. Scammers would actually have to think before acting. Fleet warfare might just evolve into something a little more meaningful than a godawful blob/lagfest from hell.
Sadly, I see no desire on CCP's part to make this happen, and it probably would be impossible anyway.
So... the EVE universe will continue on its present path.
Well that and getting rid of second accounts would drop the 300,000 people on a single server, to something about half of that. As about half this games subscribers are alts.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.03 15:54:00 -
[82]
Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 03/10/2008 02:57:13
Singular people should be made to use Singular characters on singular accounts?
No metagaming at all?
Let me get my head around this, 1 account/character per person? I find this concept most bizarre.
A place where people can't meta farm roids to save time?
No consequence throwaway alts that get huge restrictions put on everyone elses main that would no longer exist?
No risk free coward scam alts? No risk free coward corp thief alts? No risk free noob ship scouts?
NO WAI!! GO DIE!!!
Yes CCP would force people to pay them much less money for the good of the game???
The game has been designed to NEED multiple accounts to encourage money into their pockets, not the other way around.
What kind of ****ing airy fairy fantasy land are you living in?
I suppose next you're going to be asking for politicians that care about the common people, and then teenagers who run neighbourhood watch schemes in their community while balancing a job with long hours and safe sex with a long term partner.
Haha, madness! |
Korizan
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Posted - 2008.10.03 16:09:00 -
[83]
The problem is you are asking CCP to fix the human factor in the game.
Remove alts, fine done. Now everyone is running ,multiple accounts. Remove them, how ?
IP blocking, not full proof and can hurt people playing in dorms or 2 people playing in the same household. MAc address, same as IP it can be tricked and it is even easier with multiple computers. Okay what about the accounts checking them. Well first you would have to remove GTC's from the game as that is a glaring hole. And once again there are ways around credit cards as well.
The point being no matter what you do people will find a way if they want to. All the items below are the human factor ,people choose to do them they are not FORCED into it. Spying Ganking Suicide Ganking Blob warfare. Cyno Alts GUnner Alts Trade alts blah blah blah.
Granted you can put in game mechanics to make it hard to do some things but in the end it is the players who decide. This is a PVP game which means player run game. IF this was WOW or Everquest where the object is to beat the game PVE then you can go back to the creators and say fix it. But for the most part (NOT ALL) WE ARE TO BLAME FOR THE CURRENT STATE OF EVE.
And removing alts is NOT the answer. And I will admit sometimes I really hate alts but take the good with the bad cause you can't have everything.
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Turin
Caldari Eternity INC. Project Alice.
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Posted - 2008.10.03 16:23:00 -
[84]
I dont usually post just to insult someone, but in this case, I will make na exception.
Your an idiot, and obviously to poor to afford a second account.
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Drykor
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.03 16:32:00 -
[85]
It would make Eve far more interesting. But..
-CCP make alot of money from multiple accounts. -The entire game is DESIGNED on PURPOSE for needing more than 1 account in a great number of situations. -Even if they wanted to change it, they could never enforce it.
So stop suggesting it already. It's never going to happen.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 17:25:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Metaller
Originally by: Vabjekf
Alts are what kills low sec. Alts are what destroys pvp. Alts are what screw up politics.
you have no idea! Ever tried living as -5.0 sec status in low sec? Alts are your only way to get supplies into low sec. And you need alot of supplies for low sec if you do pvp.
Low sec would be much emptier if those alts werent there.
You are not looking at the big picture. With out alts you would not need to leave low sec for supplies, because there would be heavy trade all through every sec. All you would have to do in low sec is pay a very small mark up.
To everyone else. So far every other argument i have seen against no alts is just citing another broken part of the game as being 'less broken' with alts. Thats not a good argument
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 17:35:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Kage Psychodin Vabjekf, don't evade my second question. Any form of PvP costs you something. even if its the simple act of running to your body, and then possibly dying again before you had a chance.(time) Being camped is being camped. it causes a loss of time, and boredom. In WoW I can log off and play a different character. I should be able to do the same here as I do. That is one of the benefits of playing a console or computer game. (at least a benefit I feel exists and SHOULD exist.
No, the problem here is not 'not being able to log onto another character when you get gamped', its 'getting camped' in the first place.
Not only does it mess you up, having you unable to undock (or get your body), which itself is a reason to eliminate it from the game, it also wastes the time of the people bothering to camp you if you run off to another character. So everybody loses! Remove such forms of camping=p That is the solution.
Quote:
third question - I don't feel those mechanics are broken at all. Quite a few are unfair, broken balance wise in case of ship power and such, perhaps. (it is solely up to CCP though)
So they are not broken, just unfair and broken in terms of balance. right....
Quote:
However, given the power of Two offers, its not so much that "No alts one account" is really even a valid way to approach the problem. Just look at the offer. CCP really DID design mechanics and perhaps even alt scouting, and the ability to hide and cook level 4s for a hundred mil a day in NPC corps as their actual intent. Thet are the sole arbiters on it, and given this is a game, its not erm...fallacious? for them to think and decree so.
They did not design this, they facilitate it because it makes them more money. They know people want alts so they make these offers to try and get people to go ahead and bite already and get some. Again, we are discussing how eve would be better with no alts, not whether or not ccp would ever do it (or even if it would be possible to implement at this point in the game ((probably not)valid lisp code!)).
Much in the same way gates themselves are a bad idea, and the game would have been better off if gates were not a part of it. The hardware limitations make this an impossibility however. That does not prevent us from looking at gates and realizing how stupid they are. But gates had to exist, so the game was designed around them. If i would say 'remove gates!' people would all think on the small scale, about how that would remove gate camping zomg. Some people would like that, most probably would not, but both are missing that with out gates the entire mechanics of the game would be different and you would not need gate camping to pewpew people or to defend areas, because with out gates the game would have been designed to work with out gates! ^___^
Think about the impossible, because one day it may no longer be impossible but you will be unable to even recognize its possibility because you are so conditioned to dismissing it.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.03 17:35:00 -
[88]
The OP is correct, 1 character per player only would have made Eve a better game. That Eve would have become a very different Eve though, and Eve as it is now just wouldn't be suited to such a restriction.
Shame really, but I think this idea is going to remain a dream.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Jobby
Minmatar UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.03 19:49:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Zeba Die.
Seconded. And hurry, you're wasting valuable oxygen.
TIA.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.10.03 20:43:00 -
[90]
No alts would overall probably improve EVE, make it a far more interesting game.
But it would also make it too time consuming to do any meaningful amount of anything in, so I'd quit. -
DesuSigs |
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Beltantis Torrence
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Posted - 2008.10.03 20:45:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Trist Ian Edited by: Trist Ian on 03/10/2008 02:37:42 It would also make having a capital very hard. Since u would have to rely on everybody else to help u move around. Personally it would be completely dumb. And CCP would also loose alot of players and money.
To the op. Slap yourself!
You automatically fail for misspelling a 4 letter word.
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2008.10.03 20:49:00 -
[92]
I would actually support the op, seems ok to me. but then again, i don't really use more than one character and i don't want any cap ships.
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.03 20:58:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Crumplecorn No alts would overall probably improve EVE, make it a far more interesting game.
But it would also make it too time consuming to do any meaningful amount of anything in, so I'd quit.
Yeah it'd be the best game that I admired other people for playing.
Also: EggFin is too good for us. He should be, I dunno, dying for our sins or something. |
Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.03 21:08:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Vabjekf Senseless rambling and theories based on Corn Flakes chaotic disposal in a bowl of iced tea and coca cola regarding Markets random price change, Pirates, low sec, Ambulation, Iskes, Carebears, Lasers and lvl 4 mission runners.
the Babelfish isn't really that effective on this forums :(
10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 |
Joskken Inx
PURE Legion Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.03 21:16:00 -
[95]
So, you want Eve to be whomever has the most free time to be the ones "allowed" to use caps? Not only that, you do know that having a "falcon alt" serves no real good on the same account as your "main".
Dude, you're just stirring shit. Thanks for sharing your internal monologue with us, can you just stick to tucking your junk between your legs and telling the mirror how much you would have sex with yourself?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2008.10.03 21:17:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Vabjekf You know I like you. You are a pretty awesome. If i was zeba i would probably not want to not be zeba anymore too!
But I want to be zeba
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Opertone
Caldari SIEGE. United Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.03 21:41:00 -
[97]
yes, yes, kill the alts!
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 21:59:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Joskken Inx So, you want Eve to be whomever has the most free time to be the ones "allowed" to use caps?
No i want caps either removed or forced to be a corp asset and not a personal one. (multiple cap pilots, multiple caps, if corp needs a cap someone who can fly it hops in it)
Quote:
Not only that, you do know that having a "falcon alt" serves no real good on the same account as your "main".
That all depends how you use a falcon alt. If you enjoy flying an ewar support role in a gang a falcon alt could be a fun thing to have! If you just use said alt to help you get your main more killmails to artificially inflate your epeen then you can go straight to... Dis. ^___^
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Sarin Adler
Caldari Dark Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.03 22:04:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Sarin Adler on 03/10/2008 22:07:10
Originally by: Vabjekf
Then how about this. 1 Account per person. 1 character slot per account. Paying extra gets you extra character slots. You can only log onto one at a time, but the other slots can train simultaniously with each other.
People can see what characters are on the same account as any of these characters.
Yes, i am clearly most understanding and compassionate. I can understand the desire to have multiple characters given eves unique character advancement modle. However dual boxing is the same as macroing. Observe.
One account with a macro. Is a person getting benefit from an account with out having to do anything.
Two accounts dual boxing, is a single person getting benefit from an account with out having to do anything to one of the accounts (because you are only playing one at a time, even if you are switching quickly between them)
Obviously the same thing. Both involve a character giving a person an advantage with out them having to be playing it.
I think this is more realistic and could be done if CCP wanted to.
/signed
p.s: my signature was written BEFORE this thread
edit: I have alts but to my credit I have them in the same corp and rarelly dualbox with them. Unfotunatlly due to eve's skill system I think the possibility to have multiple accounts shoud stay (plus is profitable for CCP), but on the other side soemthing must be done about how alts brake the game really. ---
Alts, the root of all evil. |
Aphoticus
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Posted - 2008.10.03 22:19:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Aphoticus on 03/10/2008 22:20:01 I would second the notion.
I believe one character, one account would add a dimension to Eve that is sorely lacking.
I have always been against multi-charactering, meta-gaming.
Just my two-cents. This is my Main (and it is older than the exclamation point).
And no, you can't have my stuff. |
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.03 22:25:00 -
[101]
Freedoms will be abused, therefore freedom cannot be permitted. |
Celin Nieve
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Posted - 2008.10.03 22:25:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Vabjekf There would be no more threat of 'alt spies'. Newer players would have an easier time intigrating into the community and not run off after a month or so. 0.0 would open up for neutral characters since the general trust level of the game has gone up. They would bring trade. There would be empire prices in 0.0. The extra movement between high sec and 0.0 would populate low sec and pirates would have more targets. The extra activity in general in low sec would make it safer bringing more mission runners to low sec and even miners.
There would be no falcon alts. No probe alts. No forum alts. If you wanted to scam you would do it on your main.
Alts are what kills low sec. Alts are what destroys pvp. Alts are what screw up politics.
Just get rid of every single alt. I don't care how. Ask god to do it. But every alt should die.
You have to stop here and ask yourself: 1. would this make the game more fun for majority of players? 2. would this make CCP more or less revenue? 3. if you answered no to both of these questions, why should ccp do this?
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Alonyshka Ghini
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Posted - 2008.10.03 22:26:00 -
[103]
CCP are a business, they are here to make money, if they fail to make money then they go out of business and no more eve. Its standard business economics that its easier to get your existing customers to consume more than it is to acquire new customers, hence all the supermarket "buy one get one free" offers and power of 2. CCP are never going to restrict how many accounts each player has since quite frankly they are in the business of selling subscriptions not utopian idealism.
whether good bad or indifferent to the game CCP will sell as many subscriptions as people will pay for, and lets say they implement your ideal and lose 100K subscriptions that were actually 100K peoples power of 2 alts, then they start making a loss, job cuts, expansion packs slim down, equipment is downgraded, lag returns. CCP goes bust, game packs up.
But since you have such a good plan on how to replace the lost subscriptions then im sure CCP would be happy to give you the CMO job and you can explain to them how to get the revenue back you will cost them with your clownshoes plan.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 22:34:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Vabjekf on 03/10/2008 22:34:40 My response to both of you above this post (1 up and 2 up) already exists further up this thread. |
Duncan Bannatyne
The Sky Is The Limit
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Posted - 2008.10.03 22:36:00 -
[105]
CCP would lose about 20/30% (+) of there revenue..
Won't happen. |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.03 22:37:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Duncan Bannatyne CCP would lose about 20/30% (+) of there revenue..
Won't happen.
Oh you! |
Bohoba
Caldari HolyKnights
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Posted - 2008.10.03 22:43:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Duncan Bannatyne CCP would lose about 20/30% (+) of there revenue..
Won't happen.
hehe I think it would be 50-75% :)
we are all alts
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Kransthow
Sage Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.03 22:56:00 -
[108]
It's impossible to do, so why even bother talking about it |
Dire Radiant
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Posted - 2008.10.03 23:07:00 -
[109]
I rather like my additional accounts. They let me experience many more facets of the game than I would be able to if I had just one account. I enjoy the different alliances/corps and activities that they take part in. They dont really interact at all.
Their extra character slots tho, they definitely interact with the other accounts. So - Limiting character slots to one per account. Sure. I'd give that a try and it could be done. On the other hand - limiting accounts to one per person is impossible, so I'm not going to bother discussing it.
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Sansha'Seventia
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Posted - 2008.10.04 00:28:00 -
[110]
im schizophrenic and need alts to fulfill the 8 sides to my RL character.
this suggestion infringes my human rights.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.04 01:14:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Sansha'Seventia im schizophrenic and need alts to fulfill the 8 sides to my RL character.
this suggestion infringes my human rights.
Sounds to me like you are a crazy, crazy, and crazies have no rights. Are you pretty? Then i may have use for you... If not then its off to the biomass converter!
Everyone else is making the same arguments that others have made before them and I have already addressed. |
Blackend Sky
Minmatar The Paratwa FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.04 01:23:00 -
[112]
Well..one acc per person, and EVE would really be a dark cold harsh place. I think the overall quality would skyrocket as ppl have to plan a bit ahead on what to do next.I cant mine and build stuff,why do i have to waste cash if i have corp/ally mates who can do and me take part of their knowlege and tasks? To OP:You are indeed my Jesus of all EVE
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Anneka Tong
B. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
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Posted - 2008.10.04 01:23:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Kathryn Dougans
Originally by: Vabjekf The girls used to think i was strange throwing quarters at them, but it helped me learn how people work. (you have to put the coins in the slots and then turn the little thing and the egg pops out)
Wait, what?
I have to quote my ceo and friend here.
What?
You inserted coins into girls, turned what? and an egg pops out?
??? |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2008.10.04 02:41:00 -
[114]
Can CCP show us how many mains there are vs how many alts?
I'd be curious to see how many unique billing methods (against name/address) they have.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:21:00 -
[115]
Ok, so allow me to translate your absurd request:
"Make alts more difficult, while rewarding people for exploiting the holes in the rules."
Making an alt under your system would be trivially easy, so in the end you accomplish absolutely nothing.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:22:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Blackend Sky
To OP:You are indeed my Jesus of all EVE
I have to admit, that this was my goal all along.
Originally by: Anneka Tong
Originally by: Kathryn Dougans
Originally by: Vabjekf The girls used to think i was strange throwing quarters at them, but it helped me learn how people work. (you have to put the coins in the slots and then turn the little thing and the egg pops out)
Wait, what?
I have to quote my ceo and friend here.
What?
You inserted coins into girls, turned what? and an egg pops out?
???
No no silly. People! Girls aren't people. ^__^
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Arvald
Caldari Ninjas N Pirates
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:24:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Shinzann
Although I do like the idea of scammers using their main.
i use my main
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:27:00 -
[118]
I agree that there should be no alts. Each person should have one character.
But it'll never, ever happen.
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Almori
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Posted - 2008.10.04 15:00:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Zeba Die.
This. |
Almori
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Posted - 2008.10.04 15:01:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Trist Ian Edited by: Trist Ian on 03/10/2008 02:37:42 It would also make having a capital very hard. Since u would have to rely on everybody else to help u move around. Personally it would be completely dumb. And CCP would also loose alot of players and money.
To the op. Slap yourself!
Capitals were a bad idea.
They should remove them from the game. And if they are kept in. you SHOULD require constant 24/7 support to fly them. They are after all supposed to be a corp investment, not a personal one. Right?
Like you care about others right? Selfish bastard.
As predicted the only people who argue my blatantly obvious truths are those who don't want to lose their personal pocket carrier fleet.
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Kel Nissa
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Posted - 2008.10.04 18:41:00 -
[121]
/me votes yes for 1 char per person
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.04 21:19:00 -
[122]
Okay vabjekf, (your response is back on page 3 to me)
(first point I don't feel I can say anything more about really)
Second point again - Being undocked in EVE is not quite the same as standing out in an open field in a PvP area in another game. simply being outside can allow you to get intel, (Yes, like a /whois in other games is really informative in other games) its very easy and quick to start earning money,(although it is syndicate space) especially when there's like my "home" system with 15 belts. I can lead my enemies on a wild goose chase, and worst comes to worst, I just jumpclone away like I normally do, except it puts me into an expensive implant clone and home is 30 jumps away through gate camp central)PF-346) or even longer. Camping people isn't a broken mechanic. with how easy it is to logoff, cloak, hide, dock, or jump into a POS, there's not way otherwise to maintain presence and disrupt it. Going away is the direct discouragement TO stop camping, and its perfectly fine for both to exist (even if it requires alts/second accounts to do so.
third point - being broken and somewhat unfair are two very different things. the current game mechanics, logging off in hostile systems without stations etc means that clever attackers have a HUGE advantage given that mining barges, ratters and mission runner setups are so easy to pick apart no matter what you do. But, fixing that would actually break things. (trust me, as much as people scream for it, omnifits in games are BAD.
and now, a Fourth - I have two characters who provide radically different roles. One has a high charisma and is a decent pilot with one type of specialization, cruisers and battlecruisers and their tech 2 versions. Yet these ships are damn useless when you need to have about a dozen remote rep battleships just to provide stability in the rare capital ship we see. at that point my recons are nice, but they can die quite quickly in the crossfire, and it costs a lot more. My other character, has absolutely maxxed battleship skills, remote reps, and specs for cruise, torps, heavy rails and both caldari and gallente battleship V (although I will never use a capital ship.)
Now, no offense, but there are quite a few situations in which you need to bring the right ship or go home. Two accounts can actually allow you to DO this, and not be caught with a half assed setup. Even moreso, do you know what? I have a recon specifically for Cynos. My alliance has very few capital ships, and you will not see me undock for it. not a chance if there's hostiles within 3 jumps. gatecamping? no. Mining ops? no. logistics? I haul my own things, even if it means dragging BPCs and low weight high end minerals and then ratting for crappy tech 1 drops for refines to build off my BPCs for my tech 1 needs, anything else I risk. Actual PvP? Sure. Have a plan and don't ask me to undock without a chance of winning or keeping my ship intact.
Vab, people are already reluctant to do things for their friends in this game, its what kills morale even in higher end corps except for those that are used to it. I'm not, never will be. I don't like relying on others for jack or shit really. I have two characters so I can PvP in pretty much at this point EVERY situation effectively, and do my own hauling, Mining, and manufacturing without a huge penalty. (my main flies recons, command ships, hulks, iteron Vs and even manfactures at near perfection which is nice but does nothing when it comes time to knock down a POS or remote rep chain in the odd chance we do and it has come up a lot more often.
Vabjekf, what I am trying to talk about is the inevitable state of EVE forever. what you're trying to talk about is some grand idea of a space MMO in some alternate universe. Its cute, if you like having 10k customers and getting the plug pulled on it eventually.(as far as I can see.) Alts, and second accounts are a part of EVE, and EVE could not work in any shape or form without them. Another one bites the dust. |
Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.04 21:29:00 -
[123]
Just make EVE a free MMORPG like those bunch of all-the-same kid games from korea and make people pay for extra stuff, so i can move up to kicks online and get finally to level 18.
10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.04 22:30:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Kage Psychodin Okay vabjekf,
So you are saying you want to be able to do everything and not have to worry about having to make decisions ^__^
Quote:
Vab, people are already reluctant to do things for their friends in this game, its what kills morale even in higher end corps except for those that are used to it. I'm not, never will be. I don't like relying on others for jack or shit really. I have two characters so I can PvP in pretty much at this point EVERY situation effectively, and do my own hauling, Mining, and manufacturing without a huge penalty.
If people HAD to depend on others this would change. Thats the problem with the arguments people are making against me. They are envisioning it to be JUST LIKE HOW IT IS NOW, with the ONE THING IM SAYING being different. With out realizing that by changing what im saying it will automatically change the entire environment of the whole game, so that comparing what im saying to how the game is NOW is pointless.
An example. in wow you can solo to max level. Most people solo to max level. In EQ you can not solo to max level, people group while leveling.
In eve there are no 'groups' per se, but there are structures, one person mines, one person makes things, one person does this or that, etc.
By filling all supporting roles with alts we have everyones 'main' being a generic combat pilot flying around in whatever their sub-cap ship of choice for pewpew is. If thats all the mains are thats all there is! How one dimensional and boring the game must be then.
Quote:
Vabjekf, what I am trying to talk about is the inevitable state of EVE forever.
Probably
Quote: what you're trying to talk about is some grand idea of a space MMO in some alternate universe.
kind of, its not 'a space mmo in some alternative universe', its 'eve in some alternate universe'. The point is to make people depressed that they are stuck with eve and not alternate universe eve, so that they remember all through their lives and maybe years from now some good will come from that ^__^ Quote: Its cute, if you like having 10k customers and getting the plug pulled on it eventually.(as far as I can see.)
plug pulled eventualy, 10k customers what? 0_o
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Roxanna Kell
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.04 22:34:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Trist Ian Edited by: Trist Ian on 03/10/2008 02:37:42 It would also make having a capital very hard. Since u would have to rely on everybody else to help u move around. Personally it would be completely dumb. And CCP would also loose alot of players and money.
To the op. Slap yourself!
yeah, this game is made to make moeny tbh. But truth be told, it would be more realistic if u did have to wait for friends to move a capital, that will lead to more stupid people doing it without, therefore reduce capitals. But after 5 years of it being this way, its still to decrease the characters per account.
The account limitation idea is silly, and even if it existed, it cannot be forced: GTC...etc
Quote: There is no Dishonor in winning fools, so do it any way you can.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.04 22:38:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Roxanna Kell
But truth be told, it would be more realistic if u did have to wait for friends to move a capital, that will lead to more stupid people doing it without, therefore reduce capitals.
Yes, there are too many capitals in this game, that or alliances are too big. Or both.
Quote:
The account limitation idea is silly, and even if it existed, it cannot be forced: GTC...etc
Which is why i recommended all those measures to help enforce it that i have recommended in this thread ^_^ Remember you don't have to do it perfectly, just enough that most people don't. Then they will naturally become hostile to the people who do and social pressure will make people either stop or feel ashamed and dirty for doing it.
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Is forporn
THE INTERNET.
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Posted - 2008.10.04 22:51:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Vabjekf and social pressure will make people either stop or feel ashamed and dirty for doing it.
facepalm.jpg
Join THE INTERNET. today |
Roxanna Kell
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.04 22:56:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Roxanna Kell
But truth be told, it would be more realistic if u did have to wait for friends to move a capital, that will lead to more stupid people doing it without, therefore reduce capitals.
Yes, there are too many capitals in this game, that or alliances are too big. Or both.
Quote:
The account limitation idea is silly, and even if it existed, it cannot be forced: GTC...etc
Which is why i recommended all those measures to help enforce it that i have recommended in this thread ^_^ Remember you don't have to do it perfectly, just enough that most people don't. Then they will naturally become hostile to the people who do and social pressure will make people either stop or feel ashamed and dirty for doing it.
You simply don't expect people who have 10-20 characters, and believe me there is, and all those character are over 20msp. to simply loose them just like that.
CCP encouraged people to have more than one character in the past with the power of two promotions..etc
I am a one account man now, one time i had 3 but it was unmanageable due to my lack of multitasking. so i decided to stay with the one account, cause it feels right.
Now for others, its up to them. and you should simply give in and stop trying to change what most people are ok with because you don't like it. sorry its this way, thats just the way it is
Quote: There is no Dishonor in winning fools, so do it any way you can.
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Max Khaos
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Posted - 2008.10.04 23:03:00 -
[129]
1 Account Per person ....
What would I do with the other 5 Pc's
Misses Kicked me out of the spare room ... thank god for a loft convertion]
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.04 23:04:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Roxanna Kell
You simply don't expect people who have 10-20 characters, and believe me there is, and all those character are over 20msp. to simply loose them just like that.
nope
Quote:
CCP encouraged people to have more than one character in the past with the power of two promotions..etc
thats a smart business move
Quote:
Now for others, its up to them. and you should simply give in and stop trying to change what most people are ok with because you don't like it. sorry its this way, thats just the way it is
ive had plenty of positive feedback because deep down everyone knows that if the game was like this from the start it would have been better ^_____^
im not trying to change anything, as i said if i was recommending ccp do this i would have put it in the suggestions forum.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.04 23:05:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Max Khaos 1 Account Per person ....
What would I do with the other 5 Pc's
Misses Kicked me out of the spare room ... thank god for a loft convertion]
find prime numbers! <(^_^v)
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Syniztur
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.04 23:30:00 -
[132]
To the OP:
1) STFU already. 2) Why do you think your "ONE" idea will 'FIX' EvE? All of a sudden you are the mastermind to fix the end-all-be-all? So you are saying the entire team of CCP is just that incompetent? Is that what you are saying? (We know they are far from perfect... that's beside the point) 3) You obviously got your azz handed to you by an alt. 4) You ARE an alt 5) ... ╔═╦═╦╦═╗ ║═╣═║║╔╝ ║═╣╔╣║╚╗ ╚═╩╝╚╩═╝ ╔═╦══╦╦╗ ║╔╣╔╗║║║ ║╚╣╚╝║║║ ║╔╣╔╗║║╚╗ ╚╝╚╝╚╩╩═╝ .Period.
-------------------------------------------------- | Do unto others, before they can do unto you! | --------------------------------------------------
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.04 23:32:00 -
[133]
I was taking your post seriously until i saw
Originally by: Syniztur
╔═╦═╦╦═╗ ║═╣═║║╔╝ ║═╣╔╣║╚╗ ╚═╩╝╚╩═╝ ╔═╦══╦╦╗ ║╔╣╔╗║║║ ║╚╣╚╝║║║ ║╔╣╔╗║║╚╗ ╚╝╚╝╚╩╩═╝
You almost had me.
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Syniztur
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.04 23:43:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Vabjekf I was taking your post seriously until i saw
Originally by: Syniztur
╔═╦═╦╦═╗ ║═╣═║║╔╝ ║═╣╔╣║╚╗ ╚═╩╝╚╩═╝ ╔═╦══╦╦╗ ║╔╣╔╗║║║ ║╚╣╚╝║║║ ║╔╣╔╗║║╚╗ ╚╝╚╝╚╩╩═╝
You almost had me.
Now you know how we feel about you.
However... you still ╔═╦══╦╦╗ ║╔╣╔╗║║║ ║╚╣╚╝║║║ ║╔╣╔╗║║╚╗ ╚╝╚╝╚╩╩═╝
-------------------------------------------------- | Do unto others, before they can do unto you! | --------------------------------------------------
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Jeneroux
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Posted - 2008.10.05 00:28:00 -
[135]
If I can't play with myself I'm outta here.
Take my second account and you can have the first one too :)
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Roxanna Kell
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.10.05 00:34:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Syniztur
Originally by: Vabjekf I was taking your post seriously until i saw
Originally by: Syniztur
╔═╦═╦╦═╗ ║═╣═║║╔╝ ║═╣╔╣║╚╗ ╚═╩╝╚╩═╝ ╔═╦══╦╦╗ ║╔╣╔╗║║║ ║╚╣╚╝║║║ ║╔╣╔╗║║╚╗ ╚╝╚╝╚╩╩═╝
You almost had me.
Now you know how we feel about you.
However... you still ╔═╦══╦╦╗ ║╔╣╔╗║║║ ║╚╣╚╝║║║ ║╔╣╔╗║║╚╗ ╚╝╚╝╚╩╩═╝
she/he is more straight forward than i. Frankly what u suggest is good only if it has been implemented from day 1. now now, if ccp makes a new server u may wanna argue it out, but now that people haven't been used to this for 5 years or more, your breath is a waste, so dont, go do something else now.
Quote: There is no Dishonor in winning fools, so do it any way you can.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.05 00:51:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Roxanna Kell
Frankly what u suggest is good only if it has been implemented from day 1.
Thats all im trying to argue=p
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DigitalCommunist
Obsidian Core
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Posted - 2008.10.05 02:29:00 -
[138]
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 05/10/2008 02:29:41 1 character per account is how the game should have been made, but it wasn't. The decision is regrettable, but hindsight is 20/20. CCP got a few decisions right and this was not one of them. But it is pretty stupid they didn't do anything about it.
In my opinion, characters shouldn't be playable (or forum enabled) unless they're training. Thus, only one character on any account would be "primary", and switching wouldn't be something you could do at will.
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Vladimir Ilych
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.10.05 02:48:00 -
[139]
I read the first page, essentially I agree with the OP although I also agree that I cannot see CCP changing the current 3 slot per account system.
I have one account with just this one char. If I want an alt I will buy another account. Throw away untrained alts have imho a negative effect on gameplay.
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.05 05:35:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Vabjekf
So you are saying you want to be able to do everything and not have to worry about having to make decisions ^__^
If people HAD to depend on others this would change. Thats the problem with the arguments people are making against me. They are envisioning it to be JUST LIKE HOW IT IS NOW, with the ONE THING IM SAYING being different. With out realizing that by changing what im saying it will automatically change the entire environment of the whole game, so that comparing what im saying to how the game is NOW is pointless.
An example. in wow you can solo to max level. Most people solo to max level. In EQ you can not solo to max level, people group while leveling.
In eve there are no 'groups' per se, but there are structures, one person mines, one person makes things, one person does this or that, etc.
By filling all supporting roles with alts we have everyones 'main' being a generic combat pilot flying around in whatever their sub-cap ship of choice for pewpew is. If thats all the mains are thats all there is! How one dimensional and boring the game must be then.
Probably
plug pulled eventualy, 10k customers what? 0_o
Yes because relying on the people, who despite you liking, can be spread across different time zones is really fun. My own corp has a third of its members on US time, 1/3rd on UK time, and the last on australian time zones. We like each other, thats what brings us together, not any function or purpose. Thats what brings most people together in a game. Person, Not role or need. a sole cap I believe my corp has, maybe two. they're flown by their owners and their alt to get around. I even have a rapier and yet I didn't even have cyno field op trained until last month and used it once. Why? Because I'm rarely on when he's on. We don't keep a lot of people in our corp because we exist really. I mean, I know every person online in my alliance. we're out in 0.0, sucky 0.0 mind you, but still. .
Back to point one, being able to do everything on one character bad. But when a game makes you commit to your role and then suddenly you find out you're not needed, (try fighting a nano pack without a dedicated well tanked ship like a rapier, with good backup enough to beat ECM and stop your reppers from being jammed) being stuck doing nothing is a problem. a BIG problem. when all you can fly is a good nano tank and there's bubbles and rapiers out there, what can you do, seriously? I can hop on my big battleship character or even my ****block Nighthawk tank and be passively aggressive.
[WoW](WoW and other MMO talk ahead, if it burns avert your eyes to below) Likewise, training skills in EVE isn't a matter of grind. other MMOs could actually survive with one character per server, do you know why? Because in WoW and EQ (Yes, EQ, I have played it in the last year and it is perfectly possible to grind yourself solo to max level. maybe not in the past, but today damn easy.) you can make it from level 1-max in 3 weeks usually once you know how to do everything. Want to drop a craft or harvest skill? it'll take you three days tops to max out on them. Yes, you can boast a purple'd out character from level 1 to 70 with 375 skills in WoW without being even remotely dedicated given the knowledge. [/WoW]
Compare to EVE, where it can take SIX months to be even a comparable pilot to many and not simply cannon fodder living on one ship at a time, against 3 year + billionaires who CAN throw even a capital ship away! You might never catch up to the lone 4-5 year pilot, but with two accounts and two trained characters, you can have two characters trained with two year's time to them like I do, and not be quite as disadvantaged.
One character, one player period, is not a game I'd like anything to do with. Given my main's skills are fairly bad and I made an achura on a second account to FIX that and not lose 6 months training, is what's kept me paying $30 a month. (plus GTCs for isk!) Another one bites the dust. |
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Trader Altperson
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Posted - 2008.10.05 05:36:00 -
[141]
Um... how do u move ur stuff ti another character role players
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.05 05:43:00 -
[142]
One more bit because I ran out of room, this game would have been terrible if it were like that from the start without Alts to make space harder to traverse and plug skills as needed.
Look at Warp to zero changes Concord superhighways capital jumping Rigs that made iteron Vs mini warehouses Freighters Jump Freighters The Space Mall known as Jita Jump clones (love them!)
yes, All great changes that made EVE more manageable. Even without second accounts people can be across the galaxy in an hour, literally. (I believe the longest point across EVE jump wise just from session timers is a little over an hour at this point, assuming a fast warping ship) Another one bites the dust. |
Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.05 05:44:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Trader Altperson Um... how do u move ur stuff ti another character role players
That one is easy, everyone makes a friend or two. Give them everything not soulbound, disenchant your gear, swap your gold/plat and then swap it back. Another one bites the dust. |
El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.10.05 09:42:00 -
[144]
If this had been done in the beginning it might have been okay.
At this point in the game though it would be very difficult to do such a change without a drastic loss in subscriptions similar to what SWG suffered after their Nov 15th 2005 release of the NGE revamp.
At best now what you could do is force all characters on the same account to be in the same corp. Which while it would help some would not eliminate the spying.
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EglantinFinfleur
Ecpyrosis
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Posted - 2008.10.06 06:28:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Vladimir Ilych I read the first page, essentially I agree with the OP although I also agree that I cannot see CCP changing the current 3 slot per account system.
I have one account with just this one char. If I want an alt I will buy another account. Throw away untrained alts have imho a negative effect on gameplay.
Problem is not so much the throwaway alts on your main account, as the secondary, tertiary etc accounts. EvE ceases to be a game, and becomes a hobby in which your competitive efficiency is measured by your real-life resources, since you can manage two or more accounts at once because you've got more money or more time to grind isk and buy GTCs, than another gamer. Note that by real-life resources i mean only money (or time to grind GTCs, not training/in-game skills time as it's not relevant to multi-account simultaneous use), and not skill as a player. When those two factors can enable you to multiply your efficiency in a game, something is clearly wrong, the rules are not the same for everyone, and the goals switch from standard gaming fun to overcoming your adversary by allowed metagaming.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.06 06:47:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Kage Psychodin
Yes because relying on the people, who despite you liking, can be spread across different time zones is really fun. My own corp has a third of its members on US time, 1/3rd on UK time, and the last on australian time zones. We like each other, thats what brings us together, not any function or purpose. Thats what brings most people together in a game. Person, Not role or need. a sole cap I believe my corp has, maybe two. they're flown by their owners and their alt to get around. I even have a rapier and yet I didn't even have cyno field op trained until last month and used it once. Why? Because I'm rarely on when he's on. We don't keep a lot of people in our corp because we exist really. I mean, I know every person online in my alliance. we're out in 0.0, sucky 0.0 mind you, but still.
And this is why in any mmo playing only with people in your guild (corp, clan, whatever) is a bad idea.
Its more necessary in EVE because people generally take an 'us vs them' attitude, more or less out of necessity due to not being able to trust people... which as i outlined in the OP can be blamed a substantial part on alts.
And before you argue what i see as the logical argument against that: 0.0 would also be much more crowded with out alts, so there would be more 'neutral' persons for you to play with=p
You want time investment. Ive spent months working on a SINGLE CHARACTER in another mmo, whos soul job was group support. Then one day everyone decided they wanted to dual box a buff bot.
Why group with me when you can get the same advantage with out it taking exp?
Or a more eve related note. What if some newbie started up and wanted nothing more than to be an explorer? Just to find things, thats all. Thats a respectable profession if you ask me, seeking out knowledge and new things. Only theres no way to make a living because everyone just has alts to do it with.
Again, the problem with eve is that there are only a couple real professions, everything other than mining and sub-cap-gank-ship-of-choice (used for missions or pvp) is just for alts to do.
Even trade can be done by alts, though there are 'trader' mains i know, but at least they can get away with doing it. What if you wanted to be a 'researcher'? lol!
And by catering to this CCP effectively avoids having to make all of these things that are not 'shoot asteroids or shoot people/npcs' interesting deep enough for people to actually do.
If something is ONLY suitable for an alt to do, there is something broken about it.
It goes beyond even people with multiple alts having an advantage, it goes to the ridiculous realm of entire parts of the games content not even being fit for someone to actually do with their main!
Come to think of it, i can not think of a single MMO that has stuff ONLY for alts.
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Wikka
Mosquito Squad
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Posted - 2008.10.06 07:47:00 -
[147]
This is becoming a whiny flame thread.
what is needed is people to think of solutions to the problems with the game mechanics (ephasize THINK)
for instance having alts is a pain as it does encorage scammers / suicide alts & spys but to remove them would unfairly penalise established players and restrict legitimate gameplay.
Bring in a way to find peoples alts (known asociates) and that problem vanishes.
Regards to caps - there already a big isk sink if someone wants to invest in one let him. Most will find the whole personal cap affair unprofitable.
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Synapse Archae
Amarr Demonic Retribution G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.06 08:28:00 -
[148]
Say what you want, but he's right.
Plus it would give CCP a good reason to fix all those mechanics that are so broken but can be 'fixed' if you have an alt. Things like supercapital ownership, making money with PVP, and intelligence gathering.
Those could be done with way more interesting and important mechanics with lots of options for broadening ths skill tree but instead the endgame is "buy an alt." blah.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Blackend Sky
Minmatar The Paratwa FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.06 10:01:00 -
[149]
I am not quite sure about CCP had the intention to make cash at the first place,more having a vision about their spacegame.That vision is kinda gone.Quality is long gone, cause too much you can do now as back in 2004,and the choices are many.Saying yes to one thing means no to another. Using more than one char to make a stand in EVE is slavery,free yourself
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Lijhal
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Posted - 2008.10.06 10:20:00 -
[150]
@ op
are you talking about 1 client per ip? if yes and this would ever becomes real, i would suggest ccp should give us all free char moving and the ability to train all 3 chararcter on one account..
If no, fail!
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Roshan longshot
Gallente Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2008.10.06 10:25:00 -
[151]
OP, have you ever heard about "the power of two"? So you want CCP to layoff some employees?
As sombody already said...'SLAP YOUR SELF'!!! Damn you CCP! Why did you have to make such a good game?? Yes you drew me back AGAIN! Oh well wheres the Omber? |
Blackend Sky
Minmatar The Paratwa FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.06 10:52:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Lijhal @ op
are you talking about 1 client per ip? if yes and this would ever becomes real, i would suggest ccp should give us all free char moving and the ability to train all 3 chararcter on one account..
If no, fail!
Hmmmm transfer all sp from other mains/alts to the char you want to keep,doubble sp dont count.If you have 4 chars you would pay 1 for the price of 4.CCP would not loose money.EVE would become smoother and less laggy and you be able to do scouting,building,pvp Good thing is you fight global warming as well, so you need only one pc.
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Tharukan Desm'ar
Gallente The Ninth Circle Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.06 12:53:00 -
[153]
It would definately add accountability for peoples career choices in game. But doing that is too late to be honest. If it was to happen it should have been done back at release.
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EglantinFinfleur
Ecpyrosis
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Posted - 2008.10.06 14:50:00 -
[154]
As the OP wrote, there are many ways to push forward one account per IP, i.e. make it really cumbersome for someone to multi-box. There is no real technical problem about that. Financially, we can hope that the World of Darkness MMO turns out to be a huge cash cow, enabling CCP to make of EvE what it's presently not -yet pretends it is- : a harsh unforgiving world in which actions have strong consequences.
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Caldera Rin
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Posted - 2008.10.06 15:01:00 -
[155]
Yeah im a new player and i agree with the op. Of course it cant / wont happen and that's too bad. You're right the game would be boring without them but that is the fault of the game.
I know a guy that has 12 alts. No im not kidding you, and the amount of money he makes is obscene. I suppose its kind of fair enough though because hes paying what? $2000 a year for this priveledge.
Our newb corp recently got war decced. We got infiltrated by an trial alt who learnt everything about us. Then the leader of the corp was kicking out butt using his two super characters dualboxed at once (and dont tell me its that hard its really not in this game).
I cant actually believe it im almost ashamed to say that this character is indeed an alt. I never thought i would be suckered into paying for another account. Everyone told me that a miner cant mine by themselves, they need a hauler too so i bought a second one.
The game Darkfall Online is only going to allow one character per account, but very much like eve you can change your characters direction if you wish via a skill system. I love the idea because it encourages players to actually communicate with one another and work together. If you want to be an uber pvp god and spend all ur skills on fighting, well you better actually have a smithy friend to make some stuff for you. It makes the unique skills that people have much more valuable. |
Solomon XI
Hoist The Colors.
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Posted - 2008.10.06 15:56:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Solomon XI on 06/10/2008 15:55:55 Oh god please no.
~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO) Pirate Coalition (Yar?) |
ingenting
20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.06 15:59:00 -
[157]
STUPID idea. very stupid.
Quote: Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb.
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.10.06 16:20:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Zeba Die.
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Kage Psychodin
Caldari The Empire Nation Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2008.10.06 18:27:00 -
[159]
Because exploring has no value. *points to the internet, did you know if you search you can find nearly every MOON IN EVE and what it produces, down to the truesec of systems 100% free?!*
Trading - Yes, because free trade zones worked well in the past, and that every game doesn't have a mega market hub. Jita. Jita which now hits 1200 AND DOESN'T LAG! :D (no, seriously that was something nice the Devs did for once) Researching - You can traing decent researching skills quickly, or train perfect skills and be able to do nothing else which is pretty much sitting in a station gaining RP for the rest of the projects you will need to wait a long time for. yeah. "Research."
Combat, trading, mining, Research, industry itself already requiring so much just to be competitive. (Yes. you do need max skills to generally be competitive nowadays. )
Good ideas in theory need to be smashed with the hammer of reality. Another one bites the dust. |
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