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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:32:00 -
[1]
(Mods don't put this in CAOD because I don't want it to fall victim to that place. Besides, it's more of a game mechanics discussion)
If I remember correctly, the last count was 400 BoB dreadnoughts. Estimating 2000 DPS per dread that gives us:
2000 * 400 = 800,000 DPS.
A large tower has 35-50 million shield. Going with 42.5 million (average of each race's tower shield amounts)
42,500,000 / 800,000 = 53 seconds.
53 seconds to take a large POS into reinforced.
Give the POS 50% resistances (since no tower is resistanceless) and you double that time. 106 seconds. Less than 2 minutes to put a large tower into reinforced.
This seems a little extreme. Did I do something wrong or do they really take out towers that fast?
--------- Friggin signature size limit. The Eve professions list |
Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:32:00 -
[2]
(Mods don't put this in CAOD because I don't want it to fall victim to that place. Besides, it's more of a game mechanics discussion)
If I remember correctly, the last count was 400 BoB dreadnoughts. Estimating 2000 DPS per dread that gives us:
2000 * 400 = 800,000 DPS.
A large tower has 35-50 million shield. Going with 42.5 million (average of each race's tower shield amounts)
42,500,000 / 800,000 = 53 seconds.
53 seconds to take a large POS into reinforced.
Give the POS 50% resistances (since no tower is resistanceless) and you double that time. 106 seconds. Less than 2 minutes to put a large tower into reinforced.
This seems a little extreme. Did I do something wrong or do they really take out towers that fast? |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:34:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Vaal Erit on 04/10/2008 04:34:54 400 Dreads? Have you seen this or are you talking out of your ass?
*edit* Most major alliances can one-cycle a large POS so I don't see what the big deal is --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:34:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Vaal Erit on 04/10/2008 04:34:54 400 Dreads? Have you seen this or are you talking out of your ass?
*edit* Most major alliances can one-cycle a large POS so I don't see what the big deal is |
Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:35:00 -
[5]
And it was actually just 2 guys with a bunch of alts.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:35:00 -
[6]
And it was actually just 2 guys with a bunch of alts. |
Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:37:00 -
[7]
1) noone in their right mind would use more than 50 dreads or so for 1 POS, it'd be a waste of Strontium (you only need enough dreads to reinforce/kill the POS in 1 cycle a.k.a. 10 mins)
2) to reinforce a POS you need to take off 75% of its shields, not 100%
3) dreads typically do more than 2K DPS
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2008.10.04 04:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Vaal Erit Edited by: Vaal Erit on 04/10/2008 04:34:54 400 Dreads? Have you seen this or are you talking out of your ass?
*edit* Most major alliances can one-cycle a large POS so I don't see what the big deal is
Someone else said it. If you have a more accurate figure I'd gladly redo the math. As for one-cycling a POS, you mean one stront cycle?
I figured that if I had done this right, that was the case. But it seemed a bit fast so I wanted to make sure. I don't know everything about POS warfare so I could be mistaken.
Originally by: Pan Crastus 1) noone in their right mind would use more than 50 dreads or so for 1 POS, it'd be a waste of Strontium (you only need enough dreads to reinforce/kill the POS in 1 cycle a.k.a. 10 mins)
2) to reinforce a POS you need to take off 75% of its shields, not 100%
3) dreads typically do more than 2K DPS
1. I know that, but effectively its the same thing Either 5 POS at once in 10 minutes is the same as a POS every 2 minutes. I was also curious what would happen if they all just hammered one POS.
2. Did not know that. I did know, however, that you need to bring it to 50% to re-stront it.
3. I know that but factors like range (sniping or in-your-face) and other stuff can mess it up. I went with 2000 because it's a good round number. |
PewPewLePewPew
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Posted - 2008.10.04 05:10:00 -
[9]
Whats the difference between say 20-30 dreads reinforcing a tower and 400? Its going to take 10 minutes either way.
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2008.10.04 05:12:00 -
[10]
Originally by: PewPewLePewPew Whats the difference between say 20-30 dreads reinforcing a tower and 400? Its going to take 10 minutes either way.
I was ignoring siege cycles on purpose.
--------- Friggin signature size limit. The Eve professions list |
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.04 05:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: PewPewLePewPew Whats the difference between say 20-30 dreads reinforcing a tower and 400? Its going to take 10 minutes either way.
Makes your enemies feel even more helpless.
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Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.04 05:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: PewPewLePewPew Whats the difference between say 20-30 dreads reinforcing a tower and 400? Its going to take 10 minutes either way.
20-30 dreads means a defender can at least mount some sort of defense. 400 dreads mean lulz good luck trying to enter the system without lagging out.
inappropriate signature. ~WeatherMan |
Synapse Archae
Amarr Demonic Retribution G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.04 05:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: PewPewLePewPew Whats the difference between say 20-30 dreads reinforcing a tower and 400? Its going to take 10 minutes either way.
Makes your enemies feel even more helpless.
That way you can show your hand and your enemies can eb confident you don't have any reinforcements.
Only works against enemies who shouldn't be fighting you to begin with. Against any equal enemy, vainly tipping your hand like that is a quick way to lose your whole fleet.
Originally by: CCP Garthagk While these forums may not give you everything that you want, they will usually let you post.
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Vabjekf
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Posted - 2008.10.04 05:45:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Synapse Archae
That way you can show your hand and your enemies can be confident you don't have any reinforcements.
Only works against enemies who shouldn't be fighting you to begin with. Against any equal enemy, vainly tipping your hand like that is a quick way to lose your whole fleet.
Of course, maybe MAX can afford that vanity, since they may well have the largest cap fleet anyone can field atm.
How do you know they don't have 400 in reserve?
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2008.10.04 06:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Vabjekf
Originally by: Synapse Archae
That way you can show your hand and your enemies can be confident you don't have any reinforcements.
Only works against enemies who shouldn't be fighting you to begin with. Against any equal enemy, vainly tipping your hand like that is a quick way to lose your whole fleet.
Of course, maybe MAX can afford that vanity, since they may well have the largest cap fleet anyone can field atm.
How do you know they don't have 400 in reserve?
I'm sure BoB's industry supporting MAX can pump out dreads as fast or faster than they're lost. |
PewPewLePewPew
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Posted - 2008.10.04 06:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Verx Interis
Originally by: PewPewLePewPew Whats the difference between say 20-30 dreads reinforcing a tower and 400? Its going to take 10 minutes either way.
I was ignoring siege cycles on purpose.
Your saying 400 dreads sieging a tower is 'extreme' yet you ignore siege cycles on purpose....
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Verx Interis
Amarr Aurora Security
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Posted - 2008.10.04 07:06:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Verx Interis on 04/10/2008 07:11:41 Edited by: Verx Interis on 04/10/2008 07:07:33
Originally by: PewPewLePewPew
Originally by: Verx Interis
Originally by: PewPewLePewPew Whats the difference between say 20-30 dreads reinforcing a tower and 400? Its going to take 10 minutes either way.
I was ignoring siege cycles on purpose.
Your saying 400 dreads sieging a tower is 'extreme' yet you ignore siege cycles on purpose....
Several people explained a few reasons.
Also, what if its the only tower in system?
Even if they spread, the DPS takes out a tower every 2 minutes on average. That's fast.
Another reason: They're hitting a fairly potent, gunned deathstar that is guaranteed to punch holes in their cap fleet and won't easily be taken by 40-50 dreads. So they put all 400 there and melt the crap out of the tower/guns before it has time to take out much.
Adding to the previous scenario: The defenders also have their own dreads defending. The more dreads you bring, the more likely you are to win. then while they're all there, may as well hammer the POS since whatever siege cycle your in you already started.
--------- Friggin signature size limit. The Eve professions list |
Strill
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Posted - 2008.10.04 07:33:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Verx Interis Estimating 2000 DPS per dread
Isn't that a bit low? With max skills, the moros gets 1,100 DPS from its drones alone. With drones, faction ammo, 2x gallente navy magstabs, railguns, siege mode, and max skills it gets 4600 DPS. swap the railguns for blasters and it gets 5800 DPS.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2008.10.04 07:39:00 -
[19]
Edited by: MotherMoon on 04/10/2008 07:41:34 Edited by: MotherMoon on 04/10/2008 07:40:46
Originally by: Verx Interis
Originally by: PewPewLePewPew Whats the difference between say 20-30 dreads reinforcing a tower and 400? Its going to take 10 minutes either way.
I was ignoring siege cycles on purpose.
Then what the hell is the point of your thread?
it takes 10 mins, no matter what. Anything over that is bad but hit 10 mins and your fine. no one would be stupid enough to waste 200 dreads on a tower just to wait 24 hours while it comes out of reinforced.
here is where you op
Quote: 53 seconds to take a large POS into reinforced
this is untrue it takes those 200 dreads 10 mins.
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Captain Agemman
Minmatar Legio Ultra
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Posted - 2008.10.04 07:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Quote: 53 seconds to take a large POS into reinforced
this is untrue it takes those 200 dreads 10 mins.
It takes them 53 seconds after which they stand around for 9min 7 seconds.
If the dread force needs 9 minutes to take down the tower, you have a slight chance of taking out one dread with your tower. In 53 seconds, you certainly won't take a dread with you. Big difference.
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Donna Divine
Gilded Goose Brokerage
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Posted - 2008.10.04 10:26:00 -
[21]
it's not about taking down pos. Like ppl said, that takes ten mins anyway.
Hotdrop is the name of the game nowadays. Pos's are little fun, they just provide the bone to fight over. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gilded Goose Brokerages Trading to order. |
Orange Species
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.04 11:24:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Orange Species on 04/10/2008 11:25:14 You left out our 1000 titans to 1 shot a tower. |
Nocturnal Avenger
Black Plague.
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Posted - 2008.10.04 11:39:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Orange Species Edited by: Orange Species on 04/10/2008 11:25:14 You left out our 1000 titans to 1 shot a tower.
10 isk if actually do that
- Carebear Pirate - |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.10.04 13:31:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 04/10/2008 13:33:57 Last time I checked, the fuel needed to do that would cost about 20 billion isk. Not a terribly good deal when all it does is take out a POS worth 1-2bn isk at most. If the tower had any resists at zero then it could be done with only about 650 titans, provided that each of them had Doomsday Operation IV or better. |
Orange Species
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.10.04 13:34:00 -
[25]
and it would kill the titans ^_^ |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles Zzz
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Posted - 2008.10.04 13:35:00 -
[26]
No, not if they all did the same type of damage and were set up specifically to tank it. |
Nocturnal Avenger
Black Plague.
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Posted - 2008.10.04 13:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Orange Species and it would kill the titans ^_^
Which was why I offered you isk to do it |
Popperr
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.04 13:42:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Verx Interis (Mods don't put this in CAOD because I don't want it to fall victim to that place. Besides, it's more of a game mechanics discussion)
If I remember correctly, the last count was 400 BoB dreadnoughts. Estimating 2000 DPS per dread that gives us:
2000 * 400 = 800,000 DPS.
A large tower has 35-50 million shield. Going with 42.5 million (average of each race's tower shield amounts)
42,500,000 / 800,000 = 53 seconds.
53 seconds to take a large POS into reinforced.
Give the POS 50% resistances (since no tower is resistanceless) and you double that time. 106 seconds. Less than 2 minutes to put a large tower into reinforced.
This seems a little extreme. Did I do something wrong or do they really take out towers that fast?
Bob have closer to seven hundred dreads, and theyre officer fit so they do closer to 8000dps. |
obo outtatune
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Posted - 2008.10.04 15:50:00 -
[29]
If they're fielding those kinda numbers,.. why siege for a tower at all? How much added damage does a siege cycle give you?
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Von Kleist
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.04 16:51:00 -
[30]
Great topic, great thread. |
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