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Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.04 08:25:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 04/10/2008 08:28:11
0.0 spawns have taken a serious hit with this most recent patch. Whether it was a simple server tweak, or an entire patch that brought the change, idk. But what I can say for sure, and Im certain New Eden pilots the world over can agree, is that rat spawn quality has taken a nose dive in teh last week.
Why is this? Inflation. ISK is worth less now then ever. Even with the dramatic reduction in T2 prices in the last year and a half everyone can agree that a billion ISK just isnt what it used to be.
So CCP has nerfed one of the faucets (cant say if lvl4's have taken a corresponding hit) to correct the runaway inflation. In so doing, however, they've toyed with a critical profession, ratting.
I'd say the income potential for ratting has gone done anywhere from 40-60%. This isnt just bounties, mind you, but also non-bounty related flows like module quality and refine amounts from t1 mods that better-quality rats drop (think a neutron turret as opposed to an electron).
Ouch is all I can say. So, ccp, are you planning on adding more ISK sinks with the winter patch? I know you have alot of industrial changes planned. That sound awesome for all the indy mains and those with wtfbillion industrial alts who arent affected by ratting changes. But I can tell you, your average joe blow alliance pvp'er has only one account and relies heavily on ratting for his income. This majority of EVE players are going to be hard hit come 1-2 months down the road.
CCP, Please add more ISK sinks and return rat spawn quality to its former glory. Or, conversly, increase teh amount of hauler spawns or Offcier/Faction spawns, so that ratters can still have decent payout without adding more ISK to the economy. |
Splagada
Minmatar
Tides of Silence
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.04 08:31:00 -
[2]
Mate... ratting income didnt change... |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.04 08:32:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
0.0 spawns have taken a serious hit with this most recent patch.
Non-anecdotal evidence over a long enough timespan to be statistically significant ?
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.04 08:32:00 -
[4]
How are you positive that 0.0 ratting has been nerfed? I haven't ratted since the patch (which was yesterday?) But how can you be sure when rat spawns can vary in quality so much: ie 3x 1.4m spawns or 1x 800k spawns can spawn in a belt in a system. |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.04 08:34:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
How are you positive that 0.0 ratting has been nerfed? I haven't ratted since the patch (which was yesterday?) But how can you be sure when rat spawns can vary in quality so much: ie 3x 1.4m spawns or 1x 800k spawns can spawn in a belt in a system.
Doesnt take a genius to notice. Ratted dozens of hours in the last few months prior to the patch. Ratted in teh same system for about 5 hours post patch. The change is fairly pronounced IMHO. Of course, you wouldnt be able to tell, BECAUSE YOU HAVENT RATTED YET.
But hey, lets let some other people who've put a couple hours ratting to put their 2 cents. Also, I've been anticipating this change for months now. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.04 08:37:00 -
[6]
"Dozens of hours vs 5 hours?"
I suggest you log off and stretch your legs or something dude. 5 hours? Insanity.
Oh and 5 hrs vs dozen of hours is not statistically significant like Akita T has said. |
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.04 08:43:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vaal Erit
"Dozens of hours vs 5 hours?"
I suggest you log off and stretch your legs or something dude. 5 hours? Insanity.
Oh and 5 hrs vs dozen of hours is not statistically significant like Akita T has said.
Several of my alliance members are in agreement with me.
While I havent reached your magical, mathematical threshold, esp. for a thread that claims no serious statistical numbers, I can say by the basis of my gut alone, that there's been a significat drop.
OFC, anyone in a corp named Science and Trade Institute, more than likely doesnt ****ing rat, but that's a conclusion that's not based on adaquete numbers, ass hat. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.04 09:14:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Originally by: Vaal Erit
"Dozens of hours vs 5 hours?"
I suggest you log off and stretch your legs or something dude. 5 hours? Insanity.
Oh and 5 hrs vs dozen of hours is not statistically significant like Akita T has said.
Several of my alliance members are in agreement with me.
While I havent reached your magical, mathematical threshold, esp. for a thread that claims no serious statistical numbers, I can say by the basis of my gut alone, that there's been a significat drop.
OFC, anyone in a corp named Science and Trade Institute, more than likely doesnt ****ing rat, but that's a conclusion that's not based on adaquete numbers, ass hat.
Are you aware that after ratting and chaining a system for days the quality of the rats degrade? Nothing new, nothing changed there. Probably you and your corpmates have simply overhunted.
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Bezzell
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Posted - 2008.10.04 09:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Originally by: Vaal Erit
"Dozens of hours vs 5 hours?"
I suggest you log off and stretch your legs or something dude. 5 hours? Insanity.
Oh and 5 hrs vs dozen of hours is not statistically significant like Akita T has said.
Several of my alliance members are in agreement with me.
While I havent reached your magical, mathematical threshold, esp. for a thread that claims no serious statistical numbers, I can say by the basis of my gut alone, that there's been a significat drop.
OFC, anyone in a corp named Science and Trade Institute, more than likely doesnt ****ing rat, but that's a conclusion that's not based on adaquete numbers, ass hat.
Are you aware that after ratting and chaining a system for days the quality of the rats degrade? Nothing new, nothing changed there. Probably you and your corpmates have simply overhunted.
Your source?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
The first genesis
Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2008.10.04 09:27:00 -
[10]
After half of the patches we also get people complaining that invention chances were lowered. Nothing special that people like to see changes that arent there.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.04 09:38:00 -
[11]
Ratting follows a cycle.
Depending on truesec, spawns can span a certain width of types (the lower the truesec, the higher in value the average).
When you kill off a spawn completely, on average a higher level spawn is generated next, until you hit the max average, then a chance of commander/officer spawn comes along, then you go back to the lowest average for the truesec.
Chaining (letting some ships in the spawns you like live) "freezes" the cycles, increasing your immediate ISK/hour ratio, but without giving you the chance of getting a commander/officer spawn.
One could assume that after (some) patches, the spawn cycle is reset to the lowest possible average (just like after some patches, the rewards of missions are reset to lowest too).
And this here could simply be a BUG in the spawn cycle system, not increasing the average values of spawns properly.
Or, you simply haven't ratted enough to get to the higher valued spawns yet.
Or any other number of things.
Give it a couple of days of "regular intensity" ratting and come back afterwards saying 0.0 spawns are nerfed.
That, or bugreport it 
_
Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2008.10.04 09:50:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Haniblecter Teg on 04/10/2008 09:51:00
Originally by: Akita T
Ratting follows a cycle.
Depending on truesec, spawns can span a certain width of types (the lower the truesec, the higher in value the average).
When you kill off a spawn completely, on average a higher level spawn is generated next, until you hit the max average, then a chance of commander/officer spawn comes along, then you go back to the lowest average for the truesec.
Chaining (letting some ships in the spawns you like live) "freezes" the cycles, increasing your immediate ISK/hour ratio, but without giving you the chance of getting a commander/officer spawn.
One could assume that after (some) patches, the spawn cycle is reset to the lowest possible average (just like after some patches, the rewards of missions are reset to lowest too).
And this here could simply be a BUG in the spawn cycle system, not increasing the average values of spawns properly.
Or, you simply haven't ratted enough to get to the higher valued spawns yet.
Or any other number of things.
Give it a couple of days of "regular intensity" ratting and come back afterwards saying 0.0 spawns are nerfed.
That, or bugreport it
Well aware of how rats spawn, and I'd like to see your Dev Blog that you've pulled your information from. Because, over the years, rat spawning has been explained to me a dozen different ways and none of those pilots has been able to back up what they say.
I honestly could have just been getting bum luck with spawns these past 3 hours, and the previous 5 I've referenced. But Im starting to think that the rate at which high end spawns appear has been severely nerfed.
As for the other guy, yea, could just be me. But it seems to me that alot of *****ing about inflation has come to a head recently, esp. with Game Time Cards. The time seemed ripe for a reduction in spawn rates in 00.
Could just be me though, was hoping for some other 00 ratters to chime in with any of their input.
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 Friends Forever |
Ex0101
Gallente
Malicious Intentions
Resurgency
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Posted - 2008.10.04 10:07:00 -
[13]
I did 3 hours yesterday and had no issues, assortment of 800k, 1.25m and 1.8m bs's as per usual in my area, chains netted same results as always, didn't see any officer spawns but i never get those anyway :D
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Leader Idow
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.10.04 10:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Could just be me though, was hoping for some other 00 ratters to chime in with any of their input.
The continued expansion on stations and JB networks in conquerable 0.0 more then makes up for the changes made to module size and refine yield. You ratting income that comes from loot is very much depending on distance from the nearest station where you drop it off and sell/refine. Once you are more then 3 or 4 jumps out the time it takes to travel back and the risk of losing your ship while moving (or the extra effort of scouting) makes looting less profitable. But for a 0.0 resident there is very little space, especially good space, more then two gate jumps away.
Isk inflation is not so much an issue unless you use it to buy an item outside the game like a character or timecard. When looking at ingame purchasing power, the isk made from ratting never was as good as it is now. The amount of Angel Malakims it takes to fund a T2 fitted sniping Megathron is lower then ever. |
Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2008.10.04 10:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Leader Idow
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
Could just be me though, was hoping for some other 00 ratters to chime in with any of their input.
The continued expansion on stations and JB networks in conquerable 0.0 more then makes up for the changes made to module size and refine yield. You ratting income that comes from loot is very much depending on distance from the nearest station where you drop it off and sell/refine. Once you are more then 3 or 4 jumps out the time it takes to travel back and the risk of losing your ship while moving (or the extra effort of scouting) makes looting less profitable. But for a 0.0 resident there is very little space, especially good space, more then two gate jumps away.
Isk inflation is not so much an issue unless you use it to buy an item outside the game like a character or timecard. When looking at ingame purchasing power, the isk made from ratting never was as good as it is now. The amount of Angel Malakims it takes to fund a T2 fitted sniping Megathron is lower then ever.
?
I guess I look new.
Well aware of time dynamics involved with looting. GSC's make a world of difference when looting everyting ;-)
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Friends Forever |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.04 10:50:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Bezzell
Your source?
Some year of comment on ratting by people more experienced than me in that field.
So hearsay.  No hard data from Devs, but the opinion/experience seem pretty common. Naturally a perceived common experience can be wrong. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.04 11:07:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Haniblecter Teg
[...]I'd like to see your Dev Blog that you've pulled your information from. Because, over the years, rat spawning has been explained to me a dozen different ways and none of those pilots has been able to back up what they say.
No devblogs, just massive SiSi experimentation.
Before you say "that doesn't count"... well, it's the best I could hope for, if that's not good enough for you, I don't know what is.
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Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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BrutusIW
58th Inferno Warriors
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Posted - 2008.10.04 11:23:00 -
[18]
Edited by: BrutusIW on 04/10/2008 11:24:21
i noticed a change in low sec rats about two patches ago, prior to any of the industrial/jita avoidance patches,
the number of rats and their value / drops lowered plus the frequency of commanders has also dropped.
edit - i should mention i go ratting for the single purpose of finding commanders so i really did notice the change in their spawning! |
Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2008.10.04 11:25:00 -
[19]
Im not disagreeing with the statement about how spawns are generated, I agree with it mostly and would add a bit too.
But honestly, I've heard a dozen people give me a dozen explanations over the years. I hate it when people spew it at me likes its the bible.
Just put in 4 hours as of this post. While I did see a trip 1.7, that was it for anyting north of trip 1.55. I also seen several weird combinations of 500-800k battleships and their support ships (like two 500k's with two supports) that I havent encountered before.
I think they've turned down the rate at which high-end triple BS spawns spawn. Just an observation. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2008.10.04 12:17:00 -
[20]
Or maybe they included many more spawn combos, so the length of the cycle is much longer now ?
That would heavily reduce the frequency of commander and officer spawns though... which is a nerf indeed.
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Alternate resist display || Mission reward revamp || better nanofix
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ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2008.10.04 12:36:00 -
[21]
im going to hazard a guess hre and say that ratting in low sec has taken a hit ( but anamolies seem to have better rats ) should have full spawn isk values rather than mission rat values.
0.0 rats on antedoe evidence the loot drops have taken a hit for sure, less factional belt rats
Low sec more destroyers and frigs ( shuld be 0.4 and 0.5 not 0.1) less cruisers and BC ( add more and raise the isk bounties by 10% to make lower 0.1-0.3 space more attractive |
Poast Warrior
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.04 13:11:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Bezzell
Your source?
Some year of comment on ratting by people more experienced than me in that field.
So hearsay. No hard data from Devs, but the opinion/experience seem pretty common. Naturally a perceived common experience can be wrong.
Yeah, not accurate. They go through cycles like Akita points out, but "degrade over time" is an overstatement. They don't degrade like that, they just go through a fairly short cycle. |
Monkey Saturday
Unknown Soldiers
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Posted - 2008.10.04 13:12:00 -
[23]
You're not ratting in pure blind are you?  |
Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
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Posted - 2008.10.04 13:17:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Poast Warrior
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Bezzell
Your source?
Some year of comment on ratting by people more experienced than me in that field.
So hearsay. No hard data from Devs, but the opinion/experience seem pretty common. Naturally a perceived common experience can be wrong.
Yeah, not accurate. They go through cycles like Akita points out, but "degrade over time" is an overstatement. They don't degrade like that, they just go through a fairly short cycle.
You are all wrong in my experience. (A year of extensive ratting) There is no such thing as cycles or degrading due to overhunting. Each new spawn is random, period. |
Hatt0ri Hanz0
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Posted - 2008.10.04 15:40:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ex0101
I did 3 hours yesterday and had no issues, assortment of 800k, 1.25m and 1.8m bs's as per usual in my area, chains netted same results as always, didn't see any officer spawns but i never get those anyway :D
THIS. Sorry but all it takes is one person, to have experienced none of what your suggesting, to completely blow your theory out of the water. |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2008.10.04 15:46:00 -
[26]
Infaltion happens when you have to much isk per person to be spending, according to the good professor the opposite is true as there as isk growth is slower than population growth.
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Sanka Cofie
Amarr
Fractured Core
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Posted - 2008.10.04 18:10:00 -
[27]
I'm pretty sure you're all wrong.
You get spawns based on a hidden character attribute which reflects how much the GMs and Dev's like you. Likeble people get better rat spawns.
Have I mentioned how completely and utterly attractive all of the Devs and GMs are?
~-~-~-~-~
-[WillChat4ISK]-
I can be the handsome Amarr space captain.
You can be the helpless Minmatar slave girl. |
Verx Interis
Amarr
Aurora Security
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Posted - 2008.10.04 18:55:00 -
[28]
You just got a bit unlucky.
Seriously.
Like someone else said, there's always complaints that invention chances have changed because enough people have some shitty runs and can blame it on something other than luck this time.
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Friggin signature size limit.
The Eve professions list |
D'ceet
Omega Fleet Enterprises
Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.04 19:19:00 -
[29]
i bet he recently moved to Geminate
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail mods@ccpgames.com ~~~Applebabe |
Cymru Yamashita
GIT-R-DUN
Southern Connection
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Posted - 2008.10.04 23:48:00 -
[30]
I have to agree here just sound like bad luck and over rattin as as i have friends that go though the same thing after frequenst talk about double and trip 1.5m bs's and faction spawns relitivly close together
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