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Author	Topic
Archonus Art of War	Posted - 2008.10.06 20:12:00 - [61] mayermeidun er de megitraun r buth rly gud 4 pvp ________________________________ TEMP BOI MK. 2
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.06 21:24:00 - [62] Originally by: Vathar You seem to be so intent on knowing the way a fight is supposed to happen that you can even state with dead certainty what's gonna happen anytime 2 megathrons meet 2 armageddons. But even your first scenario is flawed as it is. If they have to mwd 50km towards the second arma after step 3, why keep on fighting? Just warp away and you've got 1 arma down and 2 megas alive. That's what tacklers are for, to keep the target from escaping. Your Megathrons won't be warping out if the interceptor I mentioned has a point on them. And the same scenario is roughly correct for all fights above 1v1. Unless the other guy screws up, the blaster ships will gank the first target, and then lose X ships, where X is the number of tacklers in the hostile gang. With even a single hostile tackler, the best you can do is break even, and most of the time you're leaving yourself open to a crushing defeat. Quote: Key word here is "used correctly" and you obviously have no clue as how to fly one, no offense intended. I've seen pilots flying their deimos with their brains instead of their balls. cunning beats testosterone when flying this thing. Yes, and the cunning pilots fly a Cerberus, Zealot or Vagabond. Picking your ship correctly is just as important as how you fly it.
Artemis Rose Varion Galactic Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2008.10.06 21:59:00 - [63] To the OP: I'll try my best to get on topic I'd go with the Deimos and the Myrmidon for solo PvP. Battleships do not work well, they tend to be too slow and will fall prey to big gangs/gatecamps etc. Of the two, I guess a Hyperion if you are on a gate/station (thus your chance to disengage) Deimos is a fun ship in my opinion, but you won't have a chance to disengage from a fight, so pick them carefully. The Myrmidon is a very versatile ship, with a pretty good slot layout. A shield buffered (2 LSE T2) neutron gank setup is one of my favorites, and the more traditional 2x MAR Cap injected setups work too. [Myrmidon, Shield Neutron] Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System Mark I Generator Refitting: Diagnostic System Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Faint Warp Prohibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Berserker II x2 Valkyrie II x2 Warrior II x1 You can use Gallente drones for even higher DPS, but I like having another damage type, and explosive is a weak resist on T1 armor tanks. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Lance Mercer	Posted - 2008.10.06 22:08:00 - [64] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Vathar You seem to be so intent on knowing the way a fight is supposed to happen that you can even state with dead certainty what's gonna happen anytime 2 megathrons meet 2 armageddons. But even your first scenario is flawed as it is. If they have to mwd 50km towards the second arma after step 3, why keep on fighting? Just warp away and you've got 1 arma down and 2 megas alive. That's what tacklers are for, to keep the target from escaping. Your Megathrons won't be warping out if the interceptor I mentioned has a point on them. And the same scenario is roughly correct for all fights above 1v1. Unless the other guy screws up, the blaster ships will gank the first target, and then lose X ships, where X is the number of tacklers in the hostile gang. With even a single hostile tackler, the best you can do is break even, and most of the time you're leaving yourself open to a crushing defeat. Quote: Key word here is "used correctly" and you obviously have no clue as how to fly one, no offense intended. I've seen pilots flying their deimos with their brains instead of their balls. cunning beats testosterone when flying this thing. Yes, and the cunning pilots fly a Cerberus, Zealot or Vagabond. Picking your ship correctly is just as important as how you fly it. Oh so now smart pilots, fly a vagabond?? Your so fukkin re-tar-ded Merin. Your argument changes everytime you post. Do us all a favor and dont be a John Kerry, wishy-washy Son of a Biatch. Thought all smart pilots flew Eagles! Ok its becomeing apparent you cant keep your own scenerios straight, first it starts as a 3v3, 2BS's and 1 tackler.. then it goes to a what? 5v3 or 4v4? Im all confused, either way lets assume that the recons your speaking of were maybe what curses? Cuz if they were rapiers the geddons wouldn't have been able to make it no 50km away from each other, if they were falcons then the geddons would have done no damage to the megas cuz they would have been perma jammed, if they were arazu's the geddons would have done no dmg to the megas, cuz they would have been damped to obivion. SO were back to them being Curses, which means Oh yeah the geddons would still do no damage becuase they HAVE NO CAP! Either way you still fail in the argument! Your Ideas of PERFECT battle are fail, in every way.
Commander Shmooky	Posted - 2008.10.06 22:19:00 - [65] Just to throw it out there, I am a BETA player, I have done ALOT of pvp'n, been in FOE and other big alliances. I tabbed through a couple of comments and you guys have to come to accept that Merin Ryskin is right about 95% of the time... lol
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.06 22:20:00 - [66] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 06/10/2008 22:20:48 I was going to write a point-by-point explanation of why you were wrong, but thankfully I looked at your character name first. You are either a troll or a ****ing idiot, and either way, not worth my time. I thought your argument about the Deimos having better ECM drones than the Brutix "because Brutix pilots are too stupid to fit ECM drones" was hillarious, but you really do keep trying to push the limit of stupid posting. I will, however, take this opportunity to laugh at your incoherent rambling about recons, and then ask you just where in my post you thought I was talking about recons? Perhaps you should put down the drugs before posting?
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.10.06 22:53:00 - [67] Originally by: Mutabae Highlighting your utter fail. Almost all of what you say is totally wrong. Are you that inept at fitting/flying Gallente ships, or are you just dense? Originally by: William Caldon Ignore Merlin, he seems to bring doom and gloom to every post someone makes. He has no concept of ships except that they don't pwn everything. He wants a titan that can do everything. Just ignore him. Oh wow. Originally by: Bayushi Kitsuke Merin has won this debate by far. The main highlight is that on 1v1, range wins especially if both targets are going near the same speed (pretty much always). In classic warfare, only light cavalry easily kills range units. Which the closest to this case is the Minmatar. Gallente reminds me of heavy infantry and chasing Caldari is like chasing longbowmen. I'll be surprise if the foot soldiers ever get close. Just putting it into a different perceptive. Originally by: Vanthropy Merin always wins this debate.. it's her debate. ofc the bigger ship that's cheaper = the better option when the more expensive, faster ship is trying to fill the same role as the bigger ship.. therefore, if you want to fly a deimos with plates and trimarks... don't, fly a brutix instead. If you want something that won't die to every gate camp, fly a deimos This pretty much sums up my sentiments so far. Why is it so hard to argue clearly and logically, people? It's as if your only damn issue with Merlin is that he places the emphasis on 'brutal' in 'brutal honesty'. Personally, I'd take his talk any day over the fancy and comfortable bullcrap you lay on.
Lance Mercer	Posted - 2008.10.06 23:20:00 - [68] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 06/10/2008 16:11:00 Originally by: Vathar Multiple pilot engagements: But really, the larger the fight, the less useful blaster ships are. Consider a 3v3, two battleships and a tackler on each side. The tacklers are non-webbing interceptors and will just scramble the primary. And just to be nice, I'll even assume that the Megathron is faster than the Armageddon, and both Megathrons have a *covops* warp-in at 15km on one of the Armageddons (a perfect scenario for the blaster ship). Here's what happens Ok making personal attacks of something like my name... How childish when you have a name like Merin... Are you a big J.R. Tolkin Fan? And I bolded italicized and underlined the part of your post where you mention covops... i would hope that a covops frigate wouldnt try to enter a BS fight so logically my next thought was covops cruisers also known as recons!!!
Lance Mercer	Posted - 2008.10.06 23:21:00 - [69] Originally by: Commander Shmooky Just to throw it out there, I am a BETA player, I have done ALOT of pvp'n, been in FOE and other big alliances. I tabbed through a couple of comments and you guys have to come to accept that Merin Ryskin is right about 95% of the time... lol ps MERIN having your alt post for you in defense is one of the lamest things a forum poster could do...
Vanthropy	Posted - 2008.10.06 23:50:00 - [70] i don't think merin needs a forum alt, she's perfectly comfortable being brutal with her main

Rehmes Minmatar RillaCorp Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.10.07 00:05:00 - [71] Edited by: Rehmes on 07/10/2008 00:06:30 The emorage is strong in this thread. Staying on topic and completely ignoring the fail posts that litter this thread: OP i think that if you are starting out pvping you should go with a cruiser (thorax or vexor if you are staying gallente). They are cheap to replace and as mentioned before they are relatively agile and thus capable of bypassing some issues you may encounter. DO NOT go out on a battleship solo, its like flying with a crossair on your head. Battlecruisers are pretty good at providing a median between tank/dmg so once you get enough experience try out either of the gallente BCs and see which one suits your pvp style best. As for t2 ships, it really comes down to how skillful you are or who you are engaging Solo pvp is something of a rare form of pvp in eve these days (sadly) and while some will claim to be solo masters i believe we have long passed the era in eve where solo pvp is commonplace... These days you will either gank someone or they will gank you.....thats how it is. My suggestion is to make 2-3 buddies and set up a gang with ships that complement each other well: Ceptor Recon HAC/HIC CS (fly these if you rly trust your gang's capabilities they rock)
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.07 01:02:00 - [72] Originally by: Lance Mercer And I bolded italicized and underlined the part of your post where you mention covops... i would hope that a covops frigate wouldnt try to enter a BS fight so logically my next thought was covops cruisers also known as recons!!! Oh god, this is just too hillarious. How the hell can you highlight the word "covops" and somehow think I said "recon"? Do you even know what a covops warp-in is? It's where you have your *covert ops frigate* get into position near the target, so when you use the helpful "warp to gang member" feature you will come out of warp at your prefered range to the target. The fact that you don't know what a covops warp-in is and how it benefits blaster ships just proves you are completely unqualified to discuss this subject. Please go back to WoW. Oh, and forum alts? That's just priceless. I have no need to hide behind forum alts, maybe, as hard as it might be for you to believe, people agree with me?
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.07 04:10:00 - [73] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Oh, and forum alts? That's just priceless. I have no need to hide behind forum alts, maybe, as hard as it might be for you to believe, people agree with me? Well, it's not like you're going to win any congeniality awards here But, often I am forced to agree with your rapid and inciteful rhetoric. It makes me feel less dirty than when I happen to agree with some soud byte on Fox News, but only marginally so.
Vathar The Wings of Maak	Posted - 2008.10.07 14:39:00 - [74] Wow, every time I get back from work I gotta read through a pile of "discutable content" (let's stay civilized), and I'm genuinely sad that some has gotten to the point of name calling, highly unconstructive. Merin, let's get back at your 2v2 arma vs geddons and notice that now tacklers are here. wonder what you'll bring next though, and I can tell you that I'll stop long before we reached the point where both camps have a titan. ONCE AGAIN YOU'RE STUCK WITHIN A SCENARIO WHERE MEGATHRON PILOTS PLAY DIRECTLY INTO THE GEDDON'S GAME. Any ship wins against morons. Let's assume that both sides have two tacklers (inties for example) for the sake of balance (sounds fair so far). Now if you have an idea of what ships are capable of and notice geddons mwding away from each other, NOTHING prevents megathron pilots from realising that if they keep playing into their game, they won't get the upper hand. So it's easy to focus on one target. that leaves an inty free to do something useful. Moreover, the megas effectively fight in tackling range, which means once they have a point on the primary geddon the other inty is effectively able to do whatever it chooses to. It's also extremely probable that the megas are staying within a few km of eachother, making tackling trickier for the arma's inties (it's easy to stray within overheated web range of the one you're not orbitting. this also leaves the opportunity to have a useful last hislot (RR, neut, whatever ...) Now let's see which tacklers have the best chance to survive. - On one side, we get two inties busy tackling megathrons, risking hazards such as straying into overheated web range or getting heavy neuted - On the other, we've got 2 free inties, which sole purpose is to protect their heavy damage dealers by applying dps to the offending tacklers, free to focus their fire as they wish, albeit slightly vulnerable from the hazards of the tackled geddon (it's also fair to assume that said geddon can have something nasty in store or at least a overheated web, although he has one less mid than the megas) I know where my vote goes, and I will probably stop playing EFT online here and ignore the road to WHAT IF. Like the carlsberg advertising campaign goes ... it's not always A and B, there's always C. However, you've not yet reached the point where B exists, let alone consider the existence of C. Note that I've got nothing against your tactics, direct, efficient, simple ... predictable and unimaginative. Warp in, send tacklers and apply maximum dps n wait for the outcome. Logic for low sec ganking, where it tends to work, but soo limited in many other situations.
Tularemia	Posted - 2008.10.07 15:00:00 - [75] Edited by: Tularemia on 07/10/2008 15:03:13 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Lance Mercer And I bolded italicized and underlined the part of your post where you mention covops... i would hope that a covops frigate wouldnt try to enter a BS fight so logically my next thought was covops cruisers also known as recons!!! Oh god, this is just too hillarious. How the hell can you highlight the word "covops" and somehow think I said "recon"? Do you even know what a covops warp-in is? It's where you have your *covert ops frigate* get into position near the target, so when you use the helpful "warp to gang member" feature you will come out of warp at your prefered range to the target. The fact that you don't know what a covops warp-in is and how it benefits blaster ships just proves you are completely unqualified to discuss this subject. Please go back to WoW. Oh, and forum alts? That's just priceless. I have no need to hide behind forum alts, maybe, as hard as it might be for you to believe, people agree with me? This right here is why your argument fails. It's a common tactic and means that the range problem of Gal ships isn't an issue. You just undermined your own point. It's called the evolution of warfare, it happens and means your point is moot. In a one race vs one race world then you may have a point, but in reality the pure dps of Gal ships means that they will always have a use and the Deimos has a major role in small gang warfare. If you actually fight in gang warfare then you'd know this.
Athanasios Anastasiou The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.10.07 16:51:00 - [76] Originally by: Tularemia Edited by: Tularemia on 07/10/2008 15:03:13 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Lance Mercer And I bolded italicized and underlined the part of your post where you mention covops... i would hope that a covops frigate wouldnt try to enter a BS fight so logically my next thought was covops cruisers also known as recons!!! Oh god, this is just too hillarious. How the hell can you highlight the word "covops" and somehow think I said "recon"? Do you even know what a covops warp-in is? It's where you have your *covert ops frigate* get into position near the target, so when you use the helpful "warp to gang member" feature you will come out of warp at your prefered range to the target. The fact that you don't know what a covops warp-in is and how it benefits blaster ships just proves you are completely unqualified to discuss this subject. Please go back to WoW. Oh, and forum alts? That's just priceless. I have no need to hide behind forum alts, maybe, as hard as it might be for you to believe, people agree with me? This right here is why your argument fails. It's a common tactic and means that the range problem of Gal ships isn't an issue. You just undermined your own point. It's called the evolution of warfare, it happens and means your point is moot. In a one race vs one race world then you may have a point, but in reality the pure dps of Gal ships means that they will always have a use and the Deimos has a major role in small gang warfare. If you actually fight in gang warfare then you'd know this. Stop eft warrioring. The 'major' role of blaster deimos in a small gang vs gang almost ends up as meat shield. Unless your opponents are complete idiots, your effective dps as a deimos is very small.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.07 23:49:00 - [77] Originally by: Vathar Blah blah blah, bad tactics, blah blah blah. Look, the point here is not the exact details of one particular (and unlikely) fight, that was just an example to highlight the general points of why the Megathron sucks, and why tackler support does not help it. Allow me to repeat them: 1) Incredibly short range requires MWDing up to the target. Not only does this result in lost dps while longer-ranged ships continue to fire, but it drains the Megathron's limited cap. While the Megathron might be able to overcome this obstacle in a 1v1 fight, every additional target to run down severely limits the Megathron's effectiveness. Even with gang sizes as small as 3v3, the longer-ranged ship can have a huge advantage. 2) Low speed differences between the Megathron and other battleships mean, against a target who understands "MWDs are mandatory", the Megathron is forced to spend considerable time chasing the target, out of range and taking fire with zero transversal. While it may or may not eventually get into range, it takes time. 3) The difference in tank and dps between a Megathron and a Raven/Armageddon/Abbadon/etc is fairly small, therefore it doesn't take very much time wasted due to points #1 and #2 to be fatal to the Megathron. DPS differences can be as small as 100-200 dps, depending on the setup. That means for every second spent getting into range, the Megathron needs 5-10 seconds just to catch up. Considering the average lifespan of a target under fire from one or more gank battleships of ANY kind, the Megathron's damage advantage only exists on paper. Likewise, the Megathron's tank advantage (usually against the Raven) is equally theoretical. The Megathron ends up using up a lot of its buffer just to get in range, by the time it actually starts hitting the target, it is quite likely that it has LESS remaining buffer than the target. Add it all up, and outside of an ideal 1v1 scenario, the Megathron just isn't a good ship. Even the small gang fights it traditionally dominated, it's now completely outclassed by the Caldar and Amarr ships.

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