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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1187
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Posted - 2012.04.05 09:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:The cooling is just peachy if you either (A) turn the fans up full throttle (like on a Windows laptop), or (B) apply external air flow This defense is silly, sorry. It's fine as long as you take deliberate steps to counter it? Isn't that saying that is not fine, out of the box?
It gets hot otherwise, since these laptops aren't designed for gaming. They'll end up stalling or shutting down due to thermal overload. My Windows laptop just shuts itself off randomly when running EVE too. It doesn't even have a metal case, so I can't use the external fan trick :\
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Remistor Callaway
Galactic Freight and Industrial Corporation
0
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Posted - 2012.04.06 02:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
I own a 13" Macbook Pro Core 2 Duo running Lion and Windows 7.
The Mac client runned without any major bug for 6 months.
I installed it in boot camp only too see and I seen a increase in FPS from 30 to 45-50 when "working"(even with better graphic settings than the ones I used on OSX). Badly, the Mac client sucks, like almost any game, Windows runs smoother. I recommend you to install it on Windows partition. |
Jouron
Hadon Shipping
30
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Posted - 2012.04.07 20:35:00 -
[33] - Quote
I think the moral of the story is this:
Mac players deserve a high quality or as high quality version of eve as pc players have.
Apple due to liscensing issues always creates more hoops for content providers to jump through.
Because of this Mac players dont have as good a client. But there is more reason to point the finger at apple then at CCP. |
Remistor Callaway
Galactic Freight and Industrial Corporation
0
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Posted - 2012.04.07 20:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
Jouron wrote:I think the moral of the story is this:
Mac players deserve a high quality or as high quality version of eve as pc players have.
Apple due to liscensing issues always creates more hoops for content providers to jump through.
Because of this Mac players dont have as good a client. But there is more reason to point the finger at apple then at CCP.
You're probably right, but whatever the reason, Eve on mac, and gaming in general, sucks. The best way to make Eve better on Mac is to install it on Windows partition.
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Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
176
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Posted - 2012.04.09 11:33:00 -
[35] - Quote
Quote:But there is more reason to point the finger at apple then at CCP.
I don't think this is entirely fair. The issue here is that game developers decide to make their games using a Windows-exclusive graphics API (directX). It's a bit unusual that putting EVE on Mac OS or Linux should even be possible. It would run fine on Mac OS had CCP used OpenGL instead, but they didn't. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
997
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Posted - 2012.04.10 11:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:Quote:But there is more reason to point the finger at apple then at CCP.
I don't think this is entirely fair. The issue here is that game developers decide to make their games using a Windows-exclusive graphics API (directX). It's a bit unusual that putting EVE on Mac OS or Linux should even be possible. It would run fine on Mac OS had CCP used OpenGL instead, but they didn't.
OpenGL has all manner of performance and reliability issues when compared to DirectX.
All you would achieve is swapping all the players who suffer glitchyness and report issues from the Mac platform to the PC; and in doing so cause a larger group of players to be affected.
It's a bad move. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
179
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Posted - 2012.04.10 20:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
I'm not going to comment on the relative merits of OpenGL vs DirectX (mostly because I would have no idea WTF I'm talking about), I'm just saying that it was CCP make a conscious decision to write the EVE client in with a Windows-specific API and thus you can't really blame Apple for this. |
Khanh'rhh
Sudden Buggery
1001
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Posted - 2012.04.11 16:18:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kahega Amielden wrote:I'm not going to comment on the relative merits of OpenGL vs DirectX (mostly because I would have no idea WTF I'm talking about), I'm just saying that it was CCP make a conscious decision to write the EVE client in with a Windows-specific API and thus you can't really blame Apple for this.
No, they chose to write the game in a very well documented, very well supported and very well implemented API which caters to the largest possible potential audience.
If you want to play a game where 2/3rds of every graphical suggestion is knocked down because it can't be implemented in OpenGL, then go find their forums. It's not pretty.
To explain the difference in the best way I know how:
DirX: Emulates the graphical hardware to the OS. You write your game / program to use the DirX API, and forget (mostly) about specific hardware restraints. Your game runs on any machine / hardware combination that can run DirX
OpenGL: Is essentially a hardware-accelerated renderer and engages the hardware on an implementation level.
Basically, it is much easier to write a reliable game on top of DirectX than it is OpenGL - you will nearly always see improvement in actual performance and development time to implement.
Legacywise, OpenGL was poorly supported when Eve came out, also.
tl;dr - you do *not* cater your entire development for the edge case of users wanting to access it from different hardware, especially when those users have a solution open to them.
You cater for the majority. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Jouron
Hadon Shipping
31
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Posted - 2012.04.12 13:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP made this game PC and linux only.
Then they dropped linux support and added the apple client.
They made the effort. They cant change the deficiency's that are in inherent in open GL |
Gen Fesslenski
Legio Prima Victrix Imperius Legio Victrix
2
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Posted - 2012.06.11 12:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
Markus Egdald wrote:Jouron wrote:Dont forget guys there is mac forum you can post these reported bugs too.
If you want to help grow a better mac client you need to post some of your woes there. I can't, I'm on a trial account...actually I think it just expired ;) Hope CCP will solve the Mac client problem.
This is not CCP's problem, its Apples. This has been tested on every other game brought to the Mac, direct comparisons have even been made with OGL runtimes of Half Life 2 on Mac and Windows. Mac's simply use much much more processing power to do the same things as far as GPU is concerned. Hell Linux is far faster at doing OGL than Mac. It's simply not a priority, and I suspect its a marketing ploy to keep you upgrading.
You combine that with the appaling cooling problems that Macs have (My gf's 2012 MBP has only one fan opening for air to get out... IN THE SCREEN HINGE!!!11 and she gets freezes in Final Cut all the time. I get graphical glitches with my 2010 Mac Mini just on the desktop with running Logic session that tax the CPU cos the heatsinks pass air from one to the other etc.)
tl;dr Mac's OGL processing sucks. Mac's cooling sucks. If you want to have most of these issues fixed you need to Bootcamp (and run a cmdline smc control to turn up the fan like i did) Alternatively you can complain fruitlessly to Apple about cooling (won't work because they design products to break within 3 years hence the yearly refreshes) |
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Skilo Tekki
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.12 02:34:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cooling:
Even laptops designed for gaming are highly limited by this. The smaller you make the laptop the harders its going to be to disperse the heat. Macs are not gaming laptops, and are tiny, which makes it all the worse. All the components are closer and it has less/smaller fans.
I play on an acer laptop when travelling for work. I find heat problems are greatly reduced just by propping the back of the laptop on a book or something. This lets air flow move under the laptop. If your not travelling consider buying a stand with an in built fan. I had one for a while it was very effective.
OpenGL vs Direct X:
CCP want to produce the highest quality game possible. In order to do this they have to use Direct X. Theres not much else to say really. Blame whoever came up with OpenGL for making a **** API?
Bootcamp:
To be honest i see no reason why you dont just do this instead of whining. Be proactive. I have no doubt CCP do all they can to support their MAC minority user base. They showed this by creating the MAC client in the first place. Im sure they'd do just fine having not bothered.
The fact is CCP needs to be profitable, this means focussing on the majority userbase (theres a reason this is generally refered to as PC gaming :S its even on the magazines). Its not their fault you bought a machine that isn't optimised for gaming (heat or OS wise), and is produced by a company reknowned for making developers jump through all kinds of hoops.
Conclusion:
CCP do the best they can to cater to as many people as possible, any company would want to increase their potential userbase. But there are limits to profitability regarding this, and a company needs to be profitable.
But the fact of the matter is that there is a solution available, in the form of bootcamp, you just need to be proactive and implement it.
TL;DR - Life isn't fair, so do something about it (if you really want to play eve?!). |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1497
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Posted - 2012.06.12 03:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Skilo Tekki wrote:.OpenGL vs Direct X:
CCP want to produce the highest quality game possible. In order to do this they have to use Direct X. Theres not much else to say really. Blame whoever came up with OpenGL for making a **** API?
Blizzard seems to be unencumbered by DirectX on the Mac platform. Their developers have already said that cross platform development helps them write better code.
Boot camp is not an option: why should I need to buy a second operating system to play a game released for my platform?
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Raiz Nhell
DEEP CORPS
125
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Posted - 2012.06.12 04:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
I run EVE on my Mac Pro desktop and my MacBook Pro laptop for at least 3 years... I have had the client crash/freeze on me... but not to the point where I can't play the game... merely an annoyance/reminder to eat and interact with humans.
The biggest problem I have is if I have an attack of the stupid and try and enter the Captains Quarters... Then it crashes and I get asked whether I want to debug it... I do enough debugging at work so I don't want to do it during off hours...
My next project is to see if I can squeeze enough out of my Macbook Air so I'm not lugging the big laptop to work in order to mine :)
There is no such thing as a fair fight...
If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1497
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Posted - 2012.06.12 09:15:00 -
[44] - Quote
The previous model of 11" MacBook Air runs EVE well enough for mining and missioning when detail is set to lowest. The new model should be slightly better. You will want to get smcFanControl or a stand with built-in fan though. Mine gets to 75-ŚC without extra cooling.
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Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
556
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Posted - 2012.06.12 14:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Probably been said and it's definitely mentioned in the big freeze thread but... turn everything else but EVE off for now if you play. I know it's ridiculous and until recent there was no reason for this but somehow CCP/Transgaming frelled the client up (again).
Been here now for almost 5 years ever since the first Mac client was launched and largely I can say the client got better over the years. They'll fix this too, just don't give up. |
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