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Author	Topic
TooNu Caldari State Protectorate Academy	Posted - 2008.10.05 17:38:00 - [1] Hello, I would like some help with my Manticore. See I thought I had a pretty good basic knowledge of how to start using this ship. It is how I want to play the game but as it turns out today I was proven very wrong. And I am glad I was proven wrong. Here is what happened today. Another SB had turned up in my area and so I waited for him to strike on some other poor person before I started on him. This happened, I waited for his missiles to fire off towards his target, I uncloaked, locked him up and fired at him, he cloaked then uncloaked and fired a salvo at me and I was dead :) and my missiles went wide of course. What I would like to know is how he managed to do that so effectively and made it look so easy. Maybe it is my current setup? I am not sure. Is there any tips or suggestions that you have about this? Maybe you know exactly how he did it and would care to explain? Please any help would be great, here is my setup. RIG: 2x Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I HIGH: 3x arbalest cruise 1x improved cloaking device MID: 1x suppressed targetting system 3x Sensor Booster II - 2x Targetting Range, 1x Scan resolution. LOW: 1x Ballistic Control System II 1x Overdrive II Thanks in advance. TooNu
CrayC Gallente CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.05 17:47:00 - [2] At what range was he from you? I know you have two sensor boosters adding to your range, but if he was just far enough, he could have sensor dampened you, causing you to lose lock so he could cloak. Otherwise I don't know how he could cloak when locked Drop the passive targetter, it's pointless on a stealth bomber. Go dampening instead, for reason stated above. Put one range and one scan res booster on, then 2 range dampeners. Much more efficient when someone manage to gets a lock on you from a distance.
TooNu Caldari State Protectorate Academy	Posted - 2008.10.05 18:18:00 - [3] He was just short of 100km I beleive, 96 or something like that. I am having trouble with my passive targeter, I am not sure if it slows down targetting or uses its own locking system compared to my onboard targeter. So perhaps he was just faster targetting me? A little confusing I know, I am sorry for that.
Reithan Law and Order Corporation The Last Stand	Posted - 2008.10.05 18:39:00 - [4] Originally by: CrayC Drop the passive targetter, it's pointless on a stealth bomber. What ship DOES it have a point on?
Khraunus Amarr Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.10.05 18:49:00 - [5] Here's my favorite manticore fitting, maybe you can swap some modules to make it work for you. lows: 4x BCU II 1x DCU II meds: 3x SeBo II, Targetting Range 1x passive targeter II 2x SeBo II, no script highs: 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise missile launcher 1x Auto-targeting system II (DON'T activate it unless someone has drones on you) 1x Improved cloaking device II
Kurull Skullsplitter Minmatar Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2008.10.05 20:10:00 - [6] Edited by: Kurull Skullsplitter on 05/10/2008 20:14:07 There is no denying that the Passive Targeter is of limited use and only good for certain circumstances. Surely this is true to greater or lesser extent of every module that fits a ship. IMO it is best used at close range to your target. This way your target has less chance to know you have locked and shot missiles at him before they hit. Frankly the closer you are when you uncloak the better in this regard. Just to put a figure to it I'll say a maximum of 30km for optimal use of it would be a good "rule of thumb" to go by. If your lucky to be in a rather large fleet you might get away with a farther distance as there is less chance your target will be able to see your missiles headed at him and if he does he has less chance to figure out who actually shot them at him before they hit him and show a damage report. And in a large fleet when you uncloak he is most likely not going to take much notice of a small frigate size ship on his overlay when he has larger more punishing ships already locked and hitting him. That being said I'll tell of an actual use where the Passive Targeter had very satisfying results. A Noob about 3 or 4 days old was stealing Ore from my mining alt in empire. Oddly enough this tickeded me off. I probably would have loaned him some ISK if he asked instead of stealing from me. I thought about it for a short time and decided to let him think he was being ignored and getting away with it. He stole away three times with the goods he could carry before I acted. After he took off to the station the third time I got my main hauler next to the alt and dropped a jet can from my main and transfered the Ores to it to make sure I got the kill rights. My main had a SB in system ready to fly. I flew and got my SB and came back and cloaked and parked 30ish KM from my jet can. The Noob comes back for the fourth time (he's flying a frigate). Predictably he was now pretty sure he would get away with it again. Not being a greatly experienced thief he wasn't lining up to warp quickly out after the theft either. No doubt you can guess what happens next. He steals from my mains can, I get the kill rights, I uncloak with my weapons hot, Passive Targeter, and Dampener active. Turn on my Sensor Boosters. Click to lock him using the overlay (NOT using the ICON just his ship entry on the overlay). Quickly he's locked and and puff my missiles are away. He never saw them coming. Being a bit angry at him the explosion of his ship was very satisfying indeed. I can only hope he had to change his shorts after he overcame the Noob shock. Shortly after he got back to the station he logged. I never saw that Noob ingame again. There is a use for the Passive Targeter. But it certainly is not for every situation. And is most likely pointless one on one against a veteran. To say it has no use is incorrect. And I think it is important to stress that the Passive Targeter will NOT work if you click the "Lock Target" Icon that is on the toolbar of the "Selected Item" window above the "Overlay" window. You must either click the ship in space or use the Ship Entry shown in the "Overlay" window.
Pry Maraai Amarr Butterfly Fury	Posted - 2008.10.05 20:19:00 - [7] Originally by: Khraunus Here's my favorite manticore fitting, maybe you can swap some modules to make it work for you. lows: 4x BCU II 1x DCU II meds: 3x SeBo II, Targetting Range 1x passive targeter II 2x SeBo II, no script highs: 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise missile launcher 1x Auto-targeting system II (DON'T activate it unless someone has drones on you) 1x Improved cloaking device II This is exactly the setup I use, except I fit 12x cruise launchers, and 9x BCU II.
Tuncan Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2008.10.05 20:47:00 - [8] well i guess he jammed or dampened you. The question is, why didn't u warped away while missiles are coming?
LadyLubU2 Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.10.05 21:50:00 - [9] Edited by: LadyLubU2 on 05/10/2008 21:51:48 Originally by: Khraunus Here's my favorite manticore fitting, maybe you can swap some modules to make it work for you. lows: 4x BCU II 1x DCU II meds: 3x SeBo II, Targetting Range 1x passive targeter II 2x SeBo II, no script highs: 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise missile launcher 1x Auto-targeting system II (DON'T activate it unless someone has drones on you) 1x Improved cloaking device II Oh hi merin your using a troll alt like me now? Ps - You might want to put a mwd on it, together with the cloak you can do a verry nice trick if you know what i mean... -- Sig: NARF FALCONS!!!
Artemis Rose Varion Galactic Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate	Posted - 2008.10.05 21:54:00 - [10] Originally by: Reithan Originally by: CrayC Drop the passive targetter, it's pointless on a stealth bomber. What ship DOES it have a point on? It will buy you a little time in theory, but as soon as you fire those missiles, your enemy will be alerted to what you are doing. If you are trying to snipe with it, they have plenty of time to figure something out before the first volley gets there. You can use passive targeting to cargo/module scan people without them knowing what's going on. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats

James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.10.05 22:09:00 - [11] Originally by: Pry Maraai Originally by: Khraunus Here's my favorite manticore fitting, maybe you can swap some modules to make it work for you. lows: 4x BCU II 1x DCU II meds: 3x SeBo II, Targetting Range 1x passive targeter II 2x SeBo II, no script highs: 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise missile launcher 1x Auto-targeting system II (DON'T activate it unless someone has drones on you) 1x Improved cloaking device II This is exactly the setup I use, except I fit 12x cruise launchers, and 9x BCU II. I think you missed the 'buy a Raven instead' allusion in the post you're quoting. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.10.05 22:09:00 - [12] Originally by: Artemis Rose Originally by: Reithan Originally by: CrayC Drop the passive targetter, it's pointless on a stealth bomber. What ship DOES it have a point on? It will buy you a little time in theory, but as soon as you fire those missiles, your enemy will be alerted to what you are doing. If you are trying to snipe with it, they have plenty of time to figure something out before the first volley gets there. You can use passive targeting to cargo/module scan people without them knowing what's going on. Indeed. It's an excellent module for an alt scout, but practically useless for anyone else. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Kurull Skullsplitter Minmatar Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2008.10.06 00:37:00 - [13] BTW OP I think the Bay Loading Accelerator I Rigs are wasted on the SB and it would be better to use 2X Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I instead.
MalVortex Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2008.10.06 01:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter Edited by: Kurull Skullsplitter on 05/10/2008 20:14:07 Heroic tale of killing a T1 Frigate Yea, see, thing is this. The moment you activate any offensive module on a pilot you passively locked, you redbox. A passive target simply removes yellow boxing. In other words, given that you locked w/ guns + modules hot, your passive targeter added... nothing. You redboxed yourself instantly anyways. PLUS, the annoying way PTs must be used added complexity and time to your entire decloak /activate boosters / lock routine anyways. A smart target that sees a SB decloak near him knows its after him. They don't decloak for shits and grins. So even if you were to decloak and idle (wtf would you do that for?) he's not going to stay around anyways. Passive targeting is only useful for scanning passively, and even that is of limited benifit given you after AFK guys anyways. PS. Ravens don't do everything bombers do. You can argue the role bombers have is better executed by sniping BS like a raven, but to say "fit a raven instead of a bomber" is a terrible argument that falls with even a moment of thought. Getting tired of seeing it TBH.
Gartel Reiman Civis Romanus Sum	Posted - 2008.10.06 02:17:00 - [15] Originally by: Kurull Skullsplitter Edited by: Kurull Skullsplitter on 05/10/2008 20:14:07 There is no denying that the Passive Targeter is of limited use and only good for certain circumstances. Surely this is true to greater or lesser extent of every module that fits a ship. IMO it is best used at close range to your target. This way your target has less chance to know you have locked and shot missiles at him before they hit. Frankly the closer you are when you uncloak the better in this regard. Just to put a figure to it I'll say a maximum of 30km for optimal use of it would be a good "rule of thumb" to go by. If your lucky to be in a rather large fleet you might get away with a farther distance as there is less chance your target will be able to see your missiles headed at him and if he does he has less chance to figure out who actually shot them at him before they hit him and show a damage report. And in a large fleet when you uncloak he is most likely not going to take much notice of a small frigate size ship on his overlay when he has larger more punishing ships already locked and hitting him. That being said I'll tell of an actual use where the Passive Targeter had very satisfying results. A Noob about 3 or 4 days old was stealing Ore from my mining alt in empire. Oddly enough this tickeded me off. I probably would have loaned him some ISK if he asked instead of stealing from me. I thought about it for a short time and decided to let him think he was being ignored and getting away with it. He stole away three times with the goods he could carry before I acted. After he took off to the station the third time I got my main hauler next to the alt and dropped a jet can from my main and transfered the Ores to it to make sure I got the kill rights. My main had a SB in system ready to fly. I flew and got my SB and came back and cloaked and parked 30ish KM from my jet can. The Noob comes back for the fourth time (he's flying a frigate). Predictably he was now pretty sure he would get away with it again. Not being a greatly experienced thief he wasn't lining up to warp quickly out after the theft either. No doubt you can guess what happens next. He steals from my mains can, I get the kill rights, I uncloak with my weapons hot, Passive Targeter, and Dampener active. Turn on my Sensor Boosters. Click to lock him using the overlay (NOT using the ICON just his ship entry on the overlay). Quickly he's locked and and puff my missiles are away. He never saw them coming. Being a bit angry at him the explosion of his ship was very satisfying indeed. I can only hope he had to change his shorts after he overcame the Noob shock. Shortly after he got back to the station he logged. I never saw that Noob ingame again. There is a use for the Passive Targeter. But it certainly is not for every situation. And is most likely pointless one on one against a veteran. To say it has no use is incorrect. And I think it is important to stress that the Passive Targeter will NOT work if you click the "Lock Target" Icon that is on the toolbar of the "Selected Item" window above the "Overlay" window. You must either click the ship in space or use the Ship Entry shown in the "Overlay" window.
Karrade Krise	Posted - 2008.10.06 05:05:00 - [16] Originally by: Khraunus Here's my favorite manticore fitting, maybe you can swap some modules to make it work for you. lows: 4x BCU II 1x DCU II meds: 3x SeBo II, Targetting Range 1x passive targeter II 2x SeBo II, no script highs: 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise missile launcher 1x Auto-targeting system II (DON'T activate it unless someone has drones on you) 1x Improved cloaking device II Amarr doesn't suit you well Merin...I can't laugh at your ironic signature of the cloaked manticore. You should really change it to a cloaking raven. I make sigs, want me to make one for you?
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.06 05:13:00 - [17] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 06/10/2008 05:13:49 laughs That's not me. I have no reason to hide behind a forum alt. Maybe people just agree with me that bombers suck, and Ravens are far better? As for the sig, I keep it out of habit, from the good old newbie days when I thought bombers would be an awesome ship to fly. Maybe someday CCP will fix them so the sig will be more accurate.
Karrade Krise Galatic P0RN Starz	Posted - 2008.10.06 05:52:00 - [18] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 06/10/2008 05:13:49 laughs That's not me. I have no reason to hide behind a forum alt. Maybe people just agree with me that bombers suck, and Ravens are far better? As for the sig, I keep it out of habit, from the good old newbie days when I thought bombers would be an awesome ship to fly. Maybe someday CCP will fix them so the sig will be more accurate. lies, there can't possibly be more than one person as ignorant about stealth bombers as you.
TooNu Caldari State Protectorate Academy	Posted - 2008.10.06 11:26:00 - [19] Thanks Krull for the advice I will try something like that tonight. And to Tuncan, I did not warp off because I was interested to see how it would pan out, plus, the excitement got to me a little
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.06 11:53:00 - [20] Originally by: MalVortex Yea, see, thing is this. The moment you activate any offensive module on a pilot you passively locked, you redbox. A passive target simply removes yellow boxing. In other words, given that you locked w/ guns + modules hot, your passive targeter added... nothing. You redboxed yourself instantly anyways. PLUS, the annoying way PTs must be used added complexity and time to your entire decloak /activate boosters / lock routine anyways. A smart target that sees a SB decloak near him knows its after him. They don't decloak for shits and grins. So even if you were to decloak and idle (wtf would you do that for?) he's not going to stay around anyways. Passive targeting is only useful for scanning passively, and even that is of limited benifit given you after AFK guys anyways. There are some more advantages of PT on bomber - you're not autotargeted back when you target and thus win couple of seconds, also you don't alert afk target with targeting noise. I'd still swap it for sensor dampener any day. Well there are two modes of operation of SB with different midslot fitting: one is "shoot from 200km and hope target doesn't warp off" other is "shove a missile right up target's ass and hope he doesn't kill you" _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.

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