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Live Dev Blog on Speed Balancing - Wednesday 8th October

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Lusian	Posted - 2008.10.10 08:51:00 - [421] Semkhet Quote: You are so clueless than I don't even know where to start. But I will try OK , you want to know the truth. I dont have the greatest NAV skills but if i fit a nano set up and do what i just said. Basically link the system i just jumped from and hit auto pilot i get 99 % results of jumping back into the system i just came from. THERE CCP I JUST SAID IT. 99 % of te time. You know what else ? I have haveing to nano fit. that means i am flying a HOT ROD instead of flying a space fareing war vessal. I might as well have ccp make me a new Lamborghini or how ever you spell it so i can hot rod around and take advantage of game bugs. Well wait asecone, i am flying a hot rod ship and i probably wont have to fit any nano setups. So yes its rediculous to see pilots do the same thing and basically not get touched. which is why I dont do it anymore. I have seen bot sodes of the nano set up. Bad and Good and untimately..... If you want to not have a nano nerf then i want the nerf taken off the mwd's so i can fit a full rack of 8 mwd's and not hurt on te cap much. Now te game wont be worth playing at all. We Need balance or the game becomes one sided, and that makes for a boring game. All ships are nano'd. You could nano a snail and it would be a force to recon with.
Lusian	Posted - 2008.10.10 08:59:00 - [422] Quote: I have haveing to nano fitl Ment to say that I hate haveing to nano fit.
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:10:00 - [423] Edited by: Murina on 10/10/2008 09:17:20 Originally by: Kerfira When you make a bad decision to engage in EVE, your gang should lose... BADLY. This doesn't apply for nano's as they can disengage quickly, which is exactly why a nerf is needed. Would you consider not bringing tacklers as a bad decision cos if we see a fast gang in our space we bring the right tool for the right job. Originally by: Kerfira The defenders reacted quickly, predicted their enemies move, blocked off their path, caught them..... and they escaped anyway! See what i mean..you claim they "caught" the nano gang but in truth they did not "catch" sod all, they just turned up in the path of the nano gang with obviously no tackle (or they would have caught the gang) and are crying about the nano gang not sitting still like idiots while they shot them. Lack of organization and poor ship and fitting choices on the part of the defender is not the fault of nano. Are you deluded or just stupid?.
Hul'ka Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:23:00 - [424] Originally by: Velvet69 Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari Have all of you lost your eardrums or something? Give the live dev blog another listen It doesnt sound like they're about to break their baby that is EVE. Heck, they're trying to FIX it actually, thanks to you lot whoever has HG snakes and broke the physics engine by going above 8000m/s. Did that Dev say 'remove the stacking penalties from webifiers' at the 7min 24 sec mark? ""question: One of the key things things that ship ware able to do qwhen speed fitted, which is perhaps not intedet, is beeing able to reaproach stargate and jump throu, even if they webbed, or if they get webbed after they start aproach, a lot of time ship is very fast and momentum is able to just carry them on backt o the gate. Is this a game design consideration for speed balance? Answer: Yea, of course it is. Bla bla bla. We're not entire sure how it will work on tranquillity, ofc, but some options we are looking it is removing stacking penalty for webifiers. So, definitly we gonna kee an eye on this and we will resolve if there will be an issues."" "Roaming must remain a viable option" my arse :p
Kerfira	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:32:00 - [425] Edited by: Kerfira on 10/10/2008 09:33:51 Originally by: Murina .... with obviously no tackle (or they would have caught the gang)... But the problem is, a nano'ed ship can just tap the MWD button and be out of web range in 2-3 seconds. That is faster than most other ships can lock! Once out of web range, they're out of scramble range too in 2 seconds more. When you CAN'T effectively tackle, how can you catch people? You CAN'T, which is exactly why this unbalanced advantage has to be taken from nano-ships (and CCP seem to be realising this). So no, I'm neither stupid nor deluded. I'm objectively evaluating the pro's and con's of the matter, and is finding nano'ing to be overpowered. If nothing else proves it, the sheer amount of nano'ed ships roaming around is a hard give-away. YOU on the other hand is highly biased in favour of your I-Win button and will do anything to keep it! Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
SciWolf	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:49:00 - [426] Edited by: SciWolf on 10/10/2008 09:49:56 I use a Vaga, every ceptor can catch me. Btw vaga's are not only the most dangerous ships, but also most lost ones. Its balance, isn't it? If you can't get enough ceptors in your gang - it's your problem.
Lusian	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:50:00 - [427] Kerfira Quote: YOU on the other hand is highly biased in favour of your I-Win button and will do anything to keep it Thankyou.
Esmenet	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:50:00 - [428] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 10/10/2008 09:33:51 Originally by: Murina .... with obviously no tackle (or they would have caught the gang)... But the problem is, a nano'ed ship can just tap the MWD button and be out of web range in 2-3 seconds. That is faster than most other ships can lock! Once out of web range, they're out of scramble range too in 2 seconds more. When you CAN'T effectively tackle, how can you catch people? You CAN'T, which is exactly why this unbalanced advantage has to be taken from nano-ships (and CCP seem to be realising this). So no, I'm neither stupid nor deluded. I'm objectively evaluating the pro's and con's of the matter, and is finding nano'ing to be overpowered. If nothing else proves it, the sheer amount of nano'ed ships roaming around is a hard give-away. YOU on the other hand is highly biased in favour of your I-Win button and will do anything to keep it! Eh what are you using to tackle? battleships?
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.10 09:59:00 - [429] Edited by: Murina on 10/10/2008 10:14:52 Originally by: Kerfira When you make a bad decision to engage in EVE, your gang should lose... BADLY. This doesn't apply for nano's as they can disengage quickly, which is exactly why a nerf is needed. Originally by: Murina Would you consider not bringing tacklers as a bad decision cos if we see a fast gang in our space we bring the right tool for the right job. Originally by: Kerfira The defenders reacted quickly, predicted their enemies move, blocked off their path, caught them..... and they escaped anyway! Originally by: Murina See what i mean..you claim they "caught" the nano gang but in truth they did not "catch" sod all, they just turned up in the path of the nano gang with obviously no tackle (or they would have caught the gang) and are crying about the nano gang not sitting still like idiots while they shot them. Lack of organization and poor ship and fitting choices on the part of the defender is not the fault of nano. Are you deluded or just stupid?. Originally by: Kerfira But the problem is, a nano'ed ship can just tap the MWD button and be out of web range in 2-3 seconds. That is faster than most other ships can lock! Once out of web range, they're out of scramble range too in 2 seconds more. Im sorry your passive tanked ratting drake cannot web a running nano ship in time, how about you try bringing rapiers that can easily slow and catch nano, or inties that can easily out run and slow and catch them also. Your logistics and ewar keep them safe and your dmg dealers melt them its quite simple unless your clueless and want pvp to be like pve and f1-f8 is your idea of skill and teamwork. I fly caldari pal and just recently i was with a group that uses cruise ravens for their main dmg dealing ships along with a bit of ewar and tackle and we had no problem with nano gangs at all unless the numbers are massively in their favor, and even then we pick off a few. YOU are unwilling to learn or think so stupid applies perfectly to you as you preach about poor decisions deserving to be punished but do not include stupid ship and fitting choices plus poor organization in that assessment. Plenty of ppl kill nano gangs and ships every day just cos you find it too hard and are unwilling to learn is not the style of pvp's fault its yours.
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2008.10.10 10:33:00 - [430] Originally by: Esmenet Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 10/10/2008 09:33:51 Originally by: Murina .... with obviously no tackle (or they would have caught the gang)... But the problem is, a nano'ed ship can just tap the MWD button and be out of web range in 2-3 seconds. That is faster than most other ships can lock! Once out of web range, they're out of scramble range too in 2 seconds more. When you CAN'T effectively tackle, how can you catch people? You CAN'T, which is exactly why this unbalanced advantage has to be taken from nano-ships (and CCP seem to be realising this). So no, I'm neither stupid nor deluded. I'm objectively evaluating the pro's and con's of the matter, and is finding nano'ing to be overpowered. If nothing else proves it, the sheer amount of nano'ed ships roaming around is a hard give-away. YOU on the other hand is highly biased in favour of your I-Win button and will do anything to keep it! Eh what are you using to tackle? battleships? Proly ratting setups with a crappy t1 web fitted and no sensor booster lol.

stagz D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.10 11:27:00 - [431] Lusian is there any particular reason why you are unable to answer my post?
DeathEngine	Posted - 2008.10.10 11:45:00 - [432] Originally by: Svjeza Roba Well,let me say this way.....NO NEAD FOR NANO NERF Como on,waisting time here,this all nano nerf thing is just geting crybabis calme down,so thay can again fly thay huge BS sit there and just push F1-F8,and watch the fight.Nano ships are easy to kill,easy to avoid and thay cost a lot of money,even a notmal t2 fit is still expencive.Hacs are usefull only if nanod,and still thay allso sufer consequencins of relaing on just one form of fight,Spead.On other side if someone did spend billions of isk to get his faction gear and expenciv implants,he deservs to be untuchibel for 50M BS.Dont u think so.A ferari Car will allways go faster than your sporty fancy Opel car,for a reason,it cost way more money.Intys r ment to be fast,faster than anything,cose only thing thay r ment to do is to tackel,and that is what thay do,relaing on their spead,as thair only wepon.So leave tham that way,please.CCP is trying to do uninteligent move and change whole game to suposly balance something that is not broken.Thay r going to afect to many aspects of game whit curent proposal of spead nerf.All nerf that did do in past to certain ships did make this ships uslesss.Thay did nerf all gallent ships and now going to do so to minimatar.So we can all just train for Caldari ships,and do the great scenario of pvp,means,warp in activate wepons and sit there,not moving,and watching the misilis fly all over.The only fun that pvp actualy have is the only one that make actuali do fighting tactics and improvise on batell field,is based around mwd,web and point,move fast,think fast,react fast,and actuali do activ pvp-ing and now CCP propse that we all shud fly BS ships size and fire misiles. CCP i know i did spen last few month working on your nano nerf idea,and it is hard after so long to see that u did go wrong direction,and just quit,but be reasnebel,just quit it befor u fu.. up this game.I can keep along whith few ships beeing nerf down,like gallent recons and mymr but if u going to nerf all pvp based moduls and all game mechanich i will quit this game.Cose im tired ,like many others,of your mesing up stuff. Im flying my vexor in pvp,and im hapy whith it,i dont mind geting engaged by vagas,or ishtars,or intys.I can stil survive and have fun,and i dont expect that im going to kill vaga in t1 cruiser,but from time to time it hapends.So basicli to every one out there,learn how to fly your pvp ship,form mixed gangs of diferent ship typs,and u will kill all nano guys.Stop crying on forums if your raven canot kill a nano ishtar,just kill his dronse you nobs and chil out.U can allways desingage and jump thru gate or dock,and if u r cought in belt,than that is your own stupid mistake for not using scan and watching local.So please give us all a break and learn how to pvp. CCP once more quit speed nerf,u are still in time. THX This! This! This! Read it again. Been playing now for a year and a bit and have loved every minute of it and couldn't consider playing another game until I saw this crap. Think real hard about this CCP, before you f#k it up. All that time training for Minmatar wasted? All that time spent mining and mission running to earn isk to buy decent ships and skills wasted? If so, my 3 accounts will be terminated - the only fair response when u basically say f#k you and your time (to me)! Only thing that's needed is 1) a little tweek (to satisfy the Caldari whingers) is a buff to missile explosion velocity (but ffs don't over-do it and allow heavy missiles to two-volley hacs!) or improve Javlins or introduce a heat-seeking missile designed to seek MWD's (but with low damage) 2) maybe nerf snakes a bit and 3) revisit the agility enhancing change to stasis webs. That's it. Read the above quote again for how it really frigging is before listening to a minute proportion of the whinging community and f#*king the game up for the rest of us.
Apsidia	Posted - 2008.10.10 11:48:00 - [433] Edited by: Apsidia on 10/10/2008 11:52:27 Eve should be difficult game. Eve should not be primitive game. Each ship should be useful. The combination of various modules in the ships should be useful. The more the modules, useful variations of the fit set for each ship, the more interestingly game. Tactics should not come to an end on calculation of range of a shot, damage, quantity of armor, shield, structure - as it is primitiveness. Tactics, also, should be and in ship flight control, operating by active modules directly during fight. Success of fight should depend not only on mathematics, but also from ship-handling experience. The small ships too have the right to resist to the big ships and in every possible way to disturb it, can and for the account of big speed. To tackle interestingly as it demands calculation of speed, an orbit, a direction of movement, a overal capacity and power consumption of the ship modules. I love difficult games in all. I love, when bolts twist more tightly. I love, when in game there is a choice and in each choice there are minuses and pluses. I love balanced games. I love a variety. I do not love primitive games like lineage or wow. And I want that Eve remained such game which I love and developed in this direction.
Eraggan Sadarr Phoenix Tribe	Posted - 2008.10.10 13:10:00 - [434] When will there be a mp3 version for the people that missed it!?? Eve Market Scanner
Scaen The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.10 13:26:00 - [435] I didn't read many of these posts, but just want to add my opinion: Proposed nano nerf is of way too big scale, and this is from Caldari pilot who's alliance was struggling against nano gangs - and still is for great part, and crying for not being able to catch many of them There are some very good proposals, like one for Warp Scrambler that disables MWD, and some reduction in speed is probably good, but not this big. IMO things shouldn't be so straight forward, why there wouldn't be (actually single) cruiser class ship that can outmaneuver interceptor? Why should missiles have to be able to catch every cruiser class ship? (I'm Caldari pilot, remember?). You want to counter nano ships? Have a nano squad in fleet. You don't have minmatar race pilots? You don't need to, you can train any race ship class, remember? So I'm not sure will this kill or not skirmish warfare, but I like those damn "rebels" outmaneuvering our heavy fleets, killing those foolish single ceptors who dare to follow them too far away from fleet. It's not like there is currently no counter to nano gangs, just people are lazy to setup fleets properly - yes, pilots and FC's need to finally understand that fleets to defend 0.0 space can't be straight forward and formed with ships that pilots offer/come in, fleets need sound construction. If you're lazy to make properly constructed fleet, if pilots doesn't want to change from their heavy tanked whatever_ship_he_currently_is_but_most_probably_a_drake than GTFO from 0.0 or die silently, don't cry about it. Also it looks to me that many people think they must be able to kill absolutely whole opposing 30man fleet if they come with 100 pilots!?! But, since those 30 are nano, and they are nano to evade those heavy 100 man mostly_bs/drake fleets, most likely is that 25 of those 30 will escape. And there comes whining about those damn nano ships. But guess what? That will continue to happen even after nerf because you don't have enough tacklers in your poor constructed 100man fleet, they will run out of dic/hic bubles even after nano nerf, killing your ceptors and again you will need to adopt to game just like now. Or you will just continue to whine about those damn reds runing out of your guns/missiles range and warp away (damn them, how they dare do that!?). Please, don't reduce choices in game, it's broad availability of choices is what makes this game so great. cheers
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2008.10.10 13:30:00 - [436] Originally by: Scaen I didn't read many of these posts, but just want to add my opinion: Proposed nano nerf is of way too big scale, and this is from Caldari pilot who's alliance was struggling against nano gangs - and still is for great part, and crying for not being able to catch many of them There are some very good proposals, like one for Warp Scrambler that disables MWD, and some reduction in speed is probably good, but not this big. IMO things shouldn't be so straight forward, why there wouldn't be (actually single) cruiser class ship that can outmaneuver interceptor? Why should missiles have to be able to catch every cruiser class ship? (I'm Caldari pilot, remember?). You want to counter nano ships? Have a nano squad in fleet. You don't have minmatar race pilots? You don't need to, you can train any race ship class, remember? So I'm not sure will this kill or not skirmish warfare, but I like those damn "rebels" outmaneuvering our heavy fleets, killing those foolish single ceptors who dare to follow them too far away from fleet. It's not like there is currently no counter to nano gangs, just people are lazy to setup fleets properly - yes, pilots and FC's need to finally understand that fleets to defend 0.0 space can't be straight forward and formed with ships that pilots offer/come in, fleets need sound construction. If you're lazy to make properly constructed fleet, if pilots doesn't want to change from their heavy tanked whatever_ship_he_currently_is_but_most_probably_a_drake than GTFO from 0.0 or die silently, don't cry about it. Also it looks to me that many people think they must be able to kill absolutely whole opposing 30man fleet if they come with 100 pilots!?! But, since those 30 are nano, and they are nano to evade those heavy 100 man mostly_bs/drake fleets, most likely is that 25 of those 30 will escape. And there comes whining about those damn nano ships. But guess what? That will continue to happen even after nerf because you don't have enough tacklers in your poor constructed 100man fleet, they will run out of dic/hic bubles even after nano nerf, killing your ceptors and again you will need to adopt to game just like now. Or you will just continue to whine about those damn reds runing out of your guns/missiles range and warp away (damn them, how they dare do that!?). Please, don't reduce choices in game, it's broad availability of choices is what makes this game so great. cheers /signed Well said and well thought out. I officially take back 50% of the bad things i have said in the past about MM.
Hul'ka Minmatar MicroFunks	Posted - 2008.10.10 14:15:00 - [437] Originally by: Scaen Also it looks to me that many people think they must be able to kill absolutely whole opposing 30man fleet if they come with 100 pilots!?! But, since those 30 are nano, and they are nano to evade those heavy 100 man mostly_bs/drake fleets, most likely is that 25 of those 30 will escape. And there comes whining about those damn nano ships. But guess what? That will continue to happen even after nerf because you don't have enough tacklers in your poor constructed 100man fleet, they will run out of dic/hic bubles even after nano nerf, killing your ceptors and again you will need to adopt to game just like now. Or you will just continue to whine about those damn reds runing out of your guns/missiles range and warp away (damn them, how they dare do that!?). Please, don't reduce choices in game, it's broad availability of choices is what makes this game so great. cheers i'm afraid you are not right on this one.. This is a major blow to viriaty in game mechanics and no mather how inteligent and smart solution and organisation of a roaming gangs is, simply nothing will work more efficiantly then f1-f8 missile spam. --------- phew phew
Scaen The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.10 15:01:00 - [438] Originally by: Hul'ka i'm afraid you are not right on this one.. This is a major blow to viriaty in game mechanics and no mather how inteligent and smart solution and organisation of a roaming gangs is, simply nothing will work more efficiantly then f1-f8 missile spam. You have taken part of my post out of contents. I was refering to some fleet construction lacks that will affect it's performance after nerf as well, tho shurely not in that great scale as now. And I think it's understandable from my post that I don't really agree with changes.
Kai Zion The Zion Accounts	Posted - 2008.10.10 15:01:00 - [439] Transcript Click to read in browser, Right Click & "Save Link As" to download the .pdf
Sebea Bottomfeeders Science and Research	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:28:00 - [440] Edited by: Sebea on 10/10/2008 16:28:58 Questions nobody asked: 1)Snipers are going to be untouchable at 200km, nothing will live to make the trip out to them. Whats to be done about this? They now, by virtue of fitting, become untouchable due to the range ability (i.e. when you start getting even remotely close, they just warp out). Dictors are going to get yet another nerf, slowing down even more, in a ship that already can't take any dps at all. Inties were ALOT slower on the original test, and trying to make it out to a SINGLE tempest, i either died, or he warped out long before i got there EVERY TIME 2) 50% webs means that ships that jump into camps will be able to disengage at will, by simply motoring back to the gate and jumping through 3) Falcoms join the ranks of ships that can't be touched, by jamming out at 200km, again, either cloaking, or warping at the first sign of another ship getting close. 4) Your saying your upset that the MWD is a "must fit" item, but your now saying that the afterburner will be the must fit item, and that's ok. How do you feel about being two faced? 5) Where did you get your new batch of Devs, and what happened to the ones that actually played the game and new what they were talking about? 6) How is a black ops battleship supposed to help keep skirmish warfare alive? They can only jump recons and such, how are the now useless hac's supposed to get around with them? what about the logistics that come on the roams?

lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:48:00 - [441] Edited by: lecrotta on 10/10/2008 16:57:34 Originally by: Sebea Questions nobody asked: 1)Snipers are going to be untouchable at 200km, nothing will live to make the trip out to them. Whats to be done about this? They now, by virtue of fitting, become untouchable due to the range ability (i.e. when you start getting even remotely close, they just warp out). No change tbh as snipers can do this now although they will be able to fire off more volleys before needing to warp off cos approaching ships will be slower if this stupid nerf goes through. Originally by: Sebea Dictors are going to get yet another nerf, slowing down even more, in a ship that already can't take any dps at all. Inties were ALOT slower on the original test, and trying to make it out to a SINGLE tempest, i either died, or he warped out long before i got there EVERY TIME All small ships are screwed by this nerf cos if you are close to one ship you are in the sweet spot for his buddies and are gonna get insta melted. Originally by: Sebea 2) 50% webs means that ships that jump into camps will be able to disengage at will, by simply motoring back to the gate and jumping through They mumbled summat about removing the web stacking penalty. Originally by: Sebea 3) Falcoms join the ranks of ships that can't be touched, by jamming out at 200km, again, either cloaking, or warping at the first sign of another ship getting close. No change tbh as they can do it now although like snipers they will be active longer due to slower ships approaching. Originally by: Sebea 4) Your saying your upset that the MWD is a "must fit" item, but your now saying that the afterburner will be the must fit item, and that's ok. How do you feel about being two faced? I doubt they feel anything as both modules will be pointless for tanking in gang combat. A most supporters of this stupid nerf are more interested in turning pvp into f1-f8 static slug fests that they can win in pve ship blobs. Originally by: Sebea 5) Where did you get your new batch of Devs, and what happened to the ones that actually played the game and new what they were talking about?. They were bred in vats but somebody substituted the pvper DNA for a mix of mission runner, miner and ratter DNA. Originally by: Sebea 6) How is a black ops battleship supposed to help keep skirmish warfare alive? They can only jump recons and such, how are the now useless hac's supposed to get around with them? what about the logistics that come on the roams?. Look stop asking awkward questions, the devs spent almost 3 minutes 47 seconds deciding to screw the game up utterly by blindly swinging the nerf bat. And its gonna take several patches on sisi before they realize (like the rest of us do already) that its not gonna work and speed in needed to make pvp different than ratting or mission running.
Melegaunt Tanthul Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.10.10 16:57:00 - [442] Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 09/10/2008 15:19:05 DEV BLOG Q & A TRANSLATED: Q1. Whats the status of changes. A. Dunno we are busy but they maybe on multi in a week and sisi on the next expansion.. Q2. Considering how much you need to change because of how much this nerf breaks will you be staggering the changes?. A. No (as it will illustrate how much it sucks). Q3. Will speed fitted interceptors be able to out rum warrior II's or small missiles. A. NO (so f1-f8 missile spam and drone swarms ftw). Q4. Will a ship be able to re-approach a gate if it jumps into a camp. A. At the moment with the nerf he has a chance but we are gonna buff webs so...NO (your totally fcked and have no chance if you jump into a camped gate, so bring a blob and jump or do not jump and logoff for the night). Q5. Will weapons be changed so they are not overpowered.* A. They will be changed but they will still hit and cause dmg (sig radius dependent) (so blob and missile spam ftw). Q6. The first patch sucked balls so you pulled it off sisi, what are you gonna change. A. Missile dmg formula and agility. (nothing that will make any difference tbh) Q7. How will web bonuses on marauder's be kept. A. We are gonna increase the bonus but they will still be weaker. (who cares nobody uses them in pvp anyway) Q8. What is gonna change to make mwd a non essential module in pvp. A. Afterburners and scram changes are gonna be better than mwd we think.......(like it matters when f1-f8 will kill anything after the speed nerf anyway). Q9. Why make all ships slower instead of just slowing the ultra fast ones. A. T2 being better than T1 (And ppl not wanting to tackle or work to kill stuff). Q10. You can disrupt guns but defenders suck and also missile ships get FOF, what you gonna do about that. A. Fix defenders...(perhaps). Q11. Why not boost existing anti-speed modules instead of nerfing the crap out of everything related to speed. A. Its easier to swing the nerf bat and see if we can fix the problems that it causes. (we do not really pvp in eve much so we have no real concept how bad these changes are for skilled gang pvp) Q12. why not just change the extreme speeds instead of screwing over the entire game. A. We think its easier to nerf everything then try to fix the problems that causes than to fix the real problem.(we do not really pvp in eve much so we have no real concept how bad these changes are for skilled gang pvp) Q13. med slot mods that get 2 effects were considered too powerful and yet you introduce a scram with two effects..why. A. Nobody was using the scram so we thought we would make it overpowered.(we wanna totally kill anything but static blob fighting) Q14. What will happen to the clones with implants now the slots are moved. A. They will be unplugged and dropped in your cargo or hangar. (who cares they are worthless now anyway) Q15. How will small roaming gangs avoid getting blobbed in 0.0 without speed. A. erm erm dunno but we are gonna boost black ops ships......maybe. (dunno so il mumble stuff about PVP in eve 4 years ago before speed, when we had a tiny percentage of the player base and no jump bridges). Q16. Will AF's be any good after this patch. A. I think so cos the speed changes will allow smaller ships to get in close and use transversal to speed tank guns and missiles (missiles with transversal issues??? lol). (Did somebody forget that if you at 0km on one ship your at the perfect range for others in his gang?.) LOL! How true!
Melegaunt Tanthul Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.10.10 17:16:00 - [443] The facts remain these: 1. The dev blog was sad. No real issue was addressed. Just a few generic questions that were also sadly answered 90% of the time. 2. The nerf only benefits blob warfare. 3. The game breaking speeds were only achievable by HG snake sets which were not the standard but quite rare due to the extreme price. If the physics engine broke with those, the only thing that needed nerfing was the snake sets. Maybe a bit on polies. 4. Snipperboats is the new way to go all the way on large scale warfare. 5. Close range weapons are dead (Blasters/ACs). 6. Mini ships lost their only advantage that being speed. 7. Ships with MWD bonus (Deimos/Thorax) that were intended for close range are dead. 8. Rappiers/Huggins are dead. 9. HACs are dead. No reason to use them over a BC that is insurable, can tank much better and in some cases has more DPS. 10. Drake is the new king of ships. 11. Missiles are now the only weapon to use. It will always do damage. You can outtrack all other weapon systems for no damage. Missiles will always hit. 12. Arazu is the ship every fleet won't be without. Faction scrambs and everyone using MWDs will be halted to a crawl with 2 points on them. 13. Small gang guerilla warfare that was based on mobility is dead. Bring your blobs and join big alliances so you have numbers. 14. Nanogangs were not I win buttons. They could be countered in a lot of ways with cap warfare being number 1. 15. Anything at ludicrous speeds with snakes could not hit anything due to tracking, except drone ships. So those few extremists all they could do was tackle/support.
Kepakh	Posted - 2008.10.10 18:07:00 - [444] Originally by: lecrotta Look stop asking awkward questions, the devs spent almost 3 minutes 47 seconds deciding to screw the game up utterly by blindly swinging the nerf bat. And its gonna take several patches on sisi before they realize (like the rest of us do already) that its not gonna work and speed in needed to make pvp different than ratting or mission running. Bad news: They won't realize anything, they don't look back nor they have any responsibility, hence they do not have to be troubled by their moves.
Killer Rasta	Posted - 2008.10.10 19:26:00 - [445] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 10/10/2008 07:46:03 Originally by: muffminer Victory by forfeit. You don't understand the difference between 'winning' and 'not losing'.... or rather, you distort it... Your nano-gang win by killing enemy ships... They 'win' by chasing you away... You really show your biased thinking there! You also just described the whole problem with nano's. The defenders reacted quickly, predicted their enemies move, blocked off their path, caught them..... and they escaped anyway! The defenders DESERVED to annihilate that gang! They didn't 'win', but got cheated out of a win they deserved by broken game mechanics. When you make a bad decision to engage in EVE, your gang should lose... BADLY. This doesn't apply for nano's as they can disengage quickly, which is exactly why a nerf is needed. Winning is killing the other guys ship, not 'chasing them away'! Nano ships should on average die as often as other reasonable ship fittings, but we all know they don't (not even by a long shot). That is why they're so popular.... or in other words, unbalanced! Everyone + dog is either flying nano these days, or training for it. 'One fitting to rule them all' is bad for the game, thus nano gets a well-deserved nerf. BRING HUGGIN,RAPIER HYENA TO THAT DEFENDER FLEET U NOOB AND U WILL WIN.NOOOOB
Vengal Seyhan Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.10.10 19:36:00 - [446] God in heaven there are some angry, angry people playing this game. FFS it's a game people. Calm the ** down. I have seen some good arguments and discussions on some of the forums... Some people do good work playesting the changes and posting what they find, and their opionions. However, there's precious little of value to read here. I'm personally in favour of the changes because they bring the possibility of diversity back to the game. Nano bores me. Oh whoa, he goes 20k/sec. "Oh cool, my ping latency is so high it's russian roulette whether or not I actually get a lock on him." Frankly, at the kind of speeds you're talking about, and the engagement ranges of weaponry in Eve, you're not playing other people. You're playing at anticipating the delay in your network connection. I don't enjoy games that are all about reaction time. And I wish all you **ers that do would just quit and go play counterstrike so you can complain about w4llh4x(!!1!11). In terms of style - I'd rather play hide and seek with cloakers, or barrel in with a plated blaster boat - and so on, than the ubiquitous 'rargh-charge-peckpeckpeck' of nanoships. Otherwise, vote with your feet or wallet : Quit the game and play another MMORPG. Or : Stop engaging in fleet actions and leave CCPs precious sandbox of 0.0 if the changes work out to be that terrible in fact. Let BoB win all of 0.0 - uncontested, it'd be a hollow and pointless victory.
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.10 20:27:00 - [447] Originally by: Black Necris Dear Lusian: Just when i was thinking ppl coulnt be any more imbecil whiners i found you. Your arguments perfectly embody the arguments of all those nanobiotches who can play sh8t and want to justify they nerdiness by crying HAX!! You obviusly dont know shit about nano ships, you just know that you cant kill them cose your stupid, there fore ill try to educate you in the subject... even if i know its imposible to educate a monkey like you. First Complain: Nano ships cant be caught!! waahhhh!! waaaahhh!! HAXORDS! Answer: Well of course they are hard to be caught... behind the nanoship is an experienced pilot who had used those ships from starters and know them like the palm of his hand... he knows when to engage how to move how to bump when to disengage etc etc... either you learn that or you go broke bcos NANO SHIPS ARE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. Second Complain: Nanoships go faster than my frigate!!! WHAAA! WHAAAA! Answer: Well of course they go fast!! If my vaga does 9k and your intie does 6k its because i got a set of implants/rigs/named items not to mention MAXED OUT NAVIGATION SKILLS. As an example, if i do 9k in the vagabond, and i switch for an interceptor... THEN ILL DO 12k, SIMPLE AINT IT?. How in the freaking name of jesus you want your sheety 3 million interceptor with no rigs no experienced pilot to go faster than my 1 billion vagabond with my implants rigs and maxed skills? explain pls? Third Complain: Nanoships killed meh!! wahhh!! wahhh!! he orbited me doing 12k a second!! hax hax!! Answer: Well of course this aint possible!! cose it dosnt happen!! you cant hit shiet while at speed!! have you even flown a vaga before??? you need to orbit and if you have the mwd on you wont be abble to hit nothing... you need to slow down to do damage. Fourth Complain: Nanoships cant be killed!!!! waaahhh wahhhhh!! nerf nerf!! Answer: This just show what an imbecil you and your friends are... have you heard of rapiers? hughin much?? neutralizers??? a nano ship without capacitor is a dead duck.... but of course you cant know of this things... cose you want your shiety tier one ships to be abble to do as t2 ships do... and with cheap modules. To resume... you sir... you are an imbecil... now leave the forums, we dont want you here anymore. What a load of crap... Nano ships can hit nothing while doing 7846378 m/s, well they will if they fit missiles/drones... a good example of this is the nano cerberus, nano sacrilege, nano ishtar, nano curses ... should I go on ? Regarding the Cruiser sized ship going faster then a frigate... maybe is a bit wrong a cruiser/BS go faster then a supposedellly interceptor ... Regarding the impossibility of being killed .. well they can be killed and they actually die easaly. My only objection to nano fits is that most of the times the fight just doesn't happen ... Oh and just only a advice: Stop the abusive language... ________________ God is my Wingman
Sylthi Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic	Posted - 2008.10.10 20:36:00 - [448] Originally by: Vengal Seyhan God in heaven there are some angry, angry people playing this game. This is one of the major parts of your post that I agree with, but not the only part. UNfortunately, what you seem to miss is that maybe people have a very good reason to be this upset. CCP likes to tout that they are a "different kind of MMO", and with the exception of their draconian rule balance and enforcement efforts, they are largely right. The concept and gameplay of Eve is awesome! No question. The implementation and running of Eve, and how often you get to play Eve, however, are etirely different stories. Many people, myself included, have years invested in this game. Why? Because that is how long it takes to train for some of the higher end stuff. When you add all of that up, you're talking about nearing a thousand dollars, for a single account. THAT, my friend, IS a big deal. This nerf, by itself, threatens all of that money and time invested for many people. Again, myself included, but not in the way you think. More on that in a minute. This game isn't like WoW, where you can play for 3 months, ding your character to 60, see everything there is to see, and be gone for just under a hundred bucks. (I have not done this as I would not touch WoW with a ten-foot pole, but I have several friends who have.) For the most part, this point is a GOOD thing for Eve. But, it can just as easily become a very bad thing. Because, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Sorry, its politics season in the US, couldn't resist. So, for the most part I agree with you. If people are that upset with CCP for the changes, then they should vote with their wallets as I have. My once five accounts have fallen down to one, solely because of bonehead rule changes like the one CCP is planning here. Who knows, one day I may be down to none if CCP keeps going this way. Now that we are done with the "love in" we get to the part that I don't agree with, and that happens to be the majority of the tone of your post. You're attitude seems to be that: "My play style is being enhanced so: GREAT! Everyone else who's play style is getting trashed should just shut up, stop posting, go away, and die." Honestly, if you don't see a problem with your attitude, when paraphrased like I just did, I am really wasting my time calling you on it. The last point I want to make here is that it was my question that I posted that was answered about "Why are you making slow ships slower as part of the effort to fix the "too fast" ones." I deeply appreciate the fact that my question got answered, and the honesty in which it was answered. UNfortunately, the answer I got from the dev was just about what I expected, and why I am so angry at CCP right now. Because, you see, I do not fly nano. I fly battleships, both in PvP and PvE all the time. Battleships are getting a massive hit with the "Speed balancing effort", because the devs answer was: "because something had to give somewhere." That is a COMPLETELY despotic answer! That is: "You are getting crapped on because we say so." Make no mistake my friends, the "Speed Balance" and the "Speed fixing" are two entirely different things that the devs have very wrongly lumped together so as to make us swallow them. "Speed Fixing" the ships that are breaking the game is needed. But, ONLY them, and ONLY to stop them from breaking the game. The "Speed Balance" is just a blatant abuse of power on the part of the devs and is plainly wrong. It NEEDS to be stopped. * *
lecrotta lecrotta Corp	Posted - 2008.10.10 20:40:00 - [449] Originally by: DeadDuck What a load of crap... Oh and just only a advice: Stop the abusive language... Sori could not resist this. Originally by: DeadDuck Nano ships can hit nothing while doing 7846378 m/s, well they will if they fit missiles/drones... a good example of this is the nano cerberus, nano sacrilege, nano ishtar, nano curses ... should I go on ? Meh drones pop easy and those nano ships you mention can be melted by amaar BS. Originally by: DeadDuck Regarding the Cruiser sized ship going faster then a frigate... maybe is a bit wrong a cruiser/BS go faster then a supposedly interceptor ... Oh dear so you think cruiser hulls are faster than friggie or destroyer hulls?..let me guess your fitting the cruisers with t2 rigs, hg snakes, claymore bonuses and faction mads aaaaaaaand the frigs are t1 crap with t1 fittings and no rigs?. Use the same fittings on all the hulls and frigs faster than destroyers, destroyers faster than cruisers, cruisers faster than BC ect ect..... SAVE NANO!!!!!!....only needing f1-f8 to kill is not a skilled style of combat.
Vitrael Reaper Industries Eternal Rapture	Posted - 2008.10.10 23:41:00 - [450] How to kill a nanoship: 1. Bring Rapier 2. Bring Huginn 3. Bring Curse 4. Bring Armageddon 5. Bring Abaddon 6. Bring Apoc /w locus coordinators (instant win) 7. Bring missile spammers 8. Bring neuting battleships 9. Bring better nanoships. 10. Bring capitals How to survive a nanoship: 1. Fit a tank 2. Fit any ewar 3. Use any remote repping 4. Don't get caught completely by yourself with no tank. How to fly in Eve with nano nerfed to shite: 1. Hay, bring moar battleships! 2. ... 3. OH CRAP BLOB



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