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Trimutius III
Amarr Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.08 11:28:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Trimutius III on 08/10/2008 11:28:32 Question for dev blog that will be 8 PM
I understand why you are balancing speed. But many ship will have their speed significantly reduced. Of course the possibility to get speed about 30 km/s or even higher isn't really good thing... But why speed falls to about 5 km/s (as I remember)? Is the only reason that it's hard to make drones and missiles moving at a speed 10-15 km/s?
------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ |
Aveng3X
Underworld Protection Agency The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.08 11:51:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Aveng3X on 08/10/2008 11:57:05 Hi CCP,
What will happen to AFs and EAFs? I *really* liked the speed changes to AFs when they were applied to Singularity.
Another bonus to AFs would also be nice, though the Harpy is great for long range work, the Hawk is sort of lost with very little difference to the Kestrel in terms of damage. The velocity bonus at the moment is next to useless, as even with precision missiles, interceptors and fast ships are hard to hit. I can't comment on the other races' AFs as I can only fly Caldari at the moment, but the Hawk does seem a little bit lacking.
Also, could you *please* fix Defender missiles? NPCs don't seem to have a problem spamming them and neutralizing half of my volleys, but on TQ (and indeed Singularity at the moment), they're next to useless. How about a specific defender missile launcher that can be fit in the highs, and the defender missile skill bonus changes with a 7.5% increase in "chance of interception", with the base value being around 15-25%?
Defender Missile Launcher I Powergrid: 60 CPU: 70 Capacity: 30 defender missiles (this is their only chargegroup) Rate of Fire: 5 seconds (reduced with Rapid Launch etc) Reload time: 15 seconds
Try testing it.. that way missile boats can easily be countered but aren't totally screwed over. With good skills you could be firing a defender off every 2.5 seconds. With Defender Missiles to 5, you'd be taking out an incoming missile with 18.75 of the 30 defenders you fire.
Could you also make it so Defenders are viable for fleet-wide defence, instead of a localized system? Make it so that they can target incoming missiles to your gang members, so that they're a viable form of fleet defence, much like tracking disruptors, sensor dampeners etc.
Overall however, I think missiles should be going faster to even have a chance of hitting the nano ships. As it stands though, I'm not really too bothered by HACs going around 3-4km/s, as to do any damage they have to get in close, and when they get heavy neuted, they die.
Deadspace fit Vagabonds and Rapiers that can manage over 10k is silly, as is having interceptors going that speed.
Have you considered maybe increasing calibration cost for astronautic rigs, or perhaps consider changing their drawbacks to signature radius increase, or powergrid cost or capacitor penalty to MWDs and afterburners?
I also think astronautic rigs that affect warp speed and cargohold amount should be separated as these aren't really combat oriented, more industrial/transport based. That way industrial characters using them shouldn't be penalized, though blockade runner pilots putting polycarbs on their ships are. Will you be rebalancing this section?
Having flown in many gangs with my FC almost exclusively flying a Rapier to tackle nano ships has given me second hand experience of what it's like through his constant moaning about how paperthin the ship is. Minmatar recons don't need to be weakened any more.
Oh, and also decrease the mass of webbed ships. Increasing it doesn't make sense - in the description it says something about "Micro Energy Streams" - surely these would encapsulate the ship and make it slow down faster?
I think the warp scrambler bonus, although an interesting idea, isn't going to be that useful for combating ships like the Vagabond. Any interceptor able to outrun one and get into 9km-12km range would be instapopped by its guns, drones, and web. I personally think that the new warp scrambling mechanics will be better suited for dispatching blasterboats that get in close.
Also people whining about how the Arazu will be the ultimate recon, it won't. A warp scrambler on an Arazu will have a maximum range of 18k, assuming with Recon 5 your scramble range is doubled. Sure you'll be damped, but drones and other gang members will be able to knock it out. In solo work, its DPS is crap, and if you can't tank an Arazu solo, chances are you can't tank much else. __________________________
Any views expressed are not necessarily the views of my corporation or alliance.
YARR! |
AiYuJiao
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Posted - 2008.10.08 11:57:00 -
[123]
Edited by: AiYuJiao on 08/10/2008 12:05:23 Edited by: AiYuJiao on 08/10/2008 12:00:22 Edited by: AiYuJiao on 08/10/2008 11:59:29 Edited by: AiYuJiao on 08/10/2008 11:58:15
Originally by: lecrotta
My BS aligns in under 10 secs, BC align even faster and cruisers not much faster than BC and none of them faster enough than the other to make any difference in pvp so stop trying to make up nonexistent pvp scenarios where they will be useful.
what BS aligns in under 10 seconds? actually, what BC aligns in under 10 seconds. please explain how you do this without fitting inertia stabs. you are making up numbers, while at the same time calling other people liars.
Originally by: lecrotta
Or would you care to explain how a hac aligning half a second or so faster than a BC will make it so uber?...no..your a pathetic and disgusting liar.
if you would remove your cranium from your rectum and look at some real numbers you would see that a BS or BC are much much slower compared to a HAC. for my proof i will use various setups for amarr crusiers, battlecruisers and battleships. im using my current skills and the same implants for all setups. information provided by eft: (also i should note these are with current tranquility mechanics, not post speed nerf, either way, the align times shouldnt be effected TOO much. if anything they would all be a bit higher.)
align times in seconds: (with mwd on/with mwd off) dual poly carb sacrilege: 7.9/5.5 dual armor rig sacrilege: 10.6/7.5 plated dual armor rigged sacrilege: 12.3/9.2 curse, 1 nano, 2 OD, 2 polycarb: 7.5/5.4 curse, no rigs no nano/istab: 10.9/7.8 harbinger, no rigs or plates: 15.7/11.4 harbinger, 1 plate, 3 armor rigs: 18/13.8 armageddon, 3 plates, 3 armor rigs: 25.1/17.6 armageddon, no plates no rigs: 23.9/16.4 abaddon, 3 plates 3 armor rigs: 26.2/18.7 abaddon, no rigs no plates: 25/17.5
please now explain how the align time differences shown here would never make any difference in pvp. as you can clearly see, based on just these average samples of a few ships, there are massive differences between the agility of a recon/HAC fit for speed and a battleship fit for tanking. you claim your battleships align in under 10 seconds and nano hac's align only half a second faster.. i have to ask what game youre playing, because its certainly not the same one as the rest of us.
in addition i would like to point out that as a fairly average skilled and implanted player, i find that nearly all of these numbers are pretty much on par with what i would expect each ship and setup to do. i would sure hope that my fast and fragile nano curse would align very quickly, while my triple plated abaddon would be a giant slow lumbering battleship. i mean if you think about it, ive added more than a meter and a half of armor plates to the abaddon, how in the world would it be as agile as a ship designs to be fast, with modules fitted to make it even faster?
oh yeah, you used the wrong "your". you wanted "you're".
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Frank Fry
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Posted - 2008.10.08 11:59:00 -
[124]
Ah yes, and boost afterburners on frigates. They're awesome.
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AiYuJiao
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Posted - 2008.10.08 12:04:00 -
[125]
Edited by: AiYuJiao on 08/10/2008 12:04:00 <continued from above due to character limit>
more on topic: i would like to somewhat agree with the person above with the smartcar analogy. just because a very very tiny group of people can take something normally fairly mundane and turn it into something rediculously awesome and fast, doesnt mean that a giant blanket nerf should be applied. there's guys out there who turn their piece of junk family sedans into insane dragsters. they spent thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars to make this happen, and now their cars are not really very functional. sure they go crazy fast in a straight line, but they arent very practical for picking the kids up from school in. its the same way with pimped ships. sure, someone can spend insane amounts of time and isk to make a macharial go 25km/s.. but when hes going that fast, what can be possibly do that an interceptor couldnt? why not let him take is super expensive toy out and risk getting it killed. he worked for it, so its his right to have and fly it. personally, i think those crazy pimped ships are pointless ways of waving ones e-peen around.
also, i would like to say, fix assault frigs. by the sound of it, they are much much better after the "speed nerf" patch. how about implementing small changes like this rather than HUGE changes to EVERYTHING. little baby steps towards a greater goal please.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.08 12:16:00 -
[126]
Edited by: lecrotta on 08/10/2008 12:24:16
Originally by: AiYuJiao
what BS aligns in under 10 seconds? actually, what BC aligns in under 10 seconds. please explain how you do this without fitting inertia stabs. you are making up numbers, while at the same time calling other people liars.
align times in seconds: (with mwd on/with mwd off) dual poly carb sacrilege: 7.9/5.5 dual armor rig sacrilege: 10.6/7.5 plated dual armor rigged sacrilege: 12.3/9.2 curse, 1 nano, 2 OD, 2 polycarb: 7.5/5.4 curse, no rigs no nano/istab: 10.9/7.8 harbinger, no rigs or plates: 15.7/11.4 harbinger, 1 plate, 3 armor rigs: 18/13.8 armageddon, 3 plates, 3 armor rigs: 25.1/17.6 armageddon, no plates no rigs: 23.9/16.4 abaddon, 3 plates 3 armor rigs: 26.2/18.7 abaddon, no rigs no plates: 25/17.5
Your kidding right you really not this inexperienced and stupid?.
Let me guess you consider aligning to be the same as getting up to top speed, did you bother to login or just run str8 to eft?.
Stop posting until you know at least a little about pvp and also how fast a ship needs to be going to enter warp and how to turn and align fast.
From a dead stop and needing to turn my ship as well i can get a 6 x 1600mm plated hyperion (i used this unrealistic fitting example because its as heavy and slow as i can fit a conventional ship) into warp in around 15 seconds (and that is not including using and pvp tricks like a mwd turn).
Sisi seems to be experiencing problems at the moment but il give you a update on other non eft figures as soon as i can login, until then i suggest you think before you post about other ppl having their heads up their craniums.
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kezz2411
Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.08 13:04:00 -
[127]
Originally by: lebrata Edited by: lebrata on 06/10/2008 20:56:03 Considering that NANO is only used in small gang fighting and that to be useful against a well balanced gang (logistics, ewar + dps) it needs logistics, ewar + dps why do you consider that the non extreme fits need nerfing in the first place.
actually ive been in large nano fights of 80 to 150 so no nano is not limited to small gang fights and yes speed needs to be nurfed.
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lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.10.08 13:11:00 -
[128]
Edited by: lebrata on 08/10/2008 13:16:15
Originally by: lebrata
Considering that NANO is only used in small gang fighting and that to be useful against a well balanced gang (logistics, ewar + dps) it needs logistics, ewar + dps, and why do you consider that the non extreme fits need nerfing in the first place.
Originally by: kezz2411 actually ive been in large nano fights of 80 to 150 so no nano is not limited to small gang fights
Having nano ships in a large scale fight is not the same as having 200+ pure nano ships fighting each other.
Originally by: kezz2411 and yes speed needs to be nurfed.
WHY?.
Wouldn't you honestly prefer modules added of buffed to help catch and combat it instead of just removing it as a option?.
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Trimutius III
Amarr Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.08 14:42:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Trimutius III on 08/10/2008 14:42:31
Originally by: lebrata
WHY?.
Wouldn't you honestly prefer modules added of buffed to help catch and combat it instead of just removing it as a option?.
As i remember there was told something aboyt serverside problems. And that they wasn't able to boost Drones and Missiles (to make faster drones and faster missiles). But I need interceptor that would be really good for blockade running. (Like now i have no problem while flying through camps in 0.0 secs on my Crusader) (Flying on Covert Ops is slower and not so funny)
Why it is impossible to make speed of drones and missiles about 10-20 km/s? ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ |
lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:05:00 -
[130]
Edited by: lebrata on 08/10/2008 15:06:31
Originally by: Trimutius III
Originally by: lebrata
WHY?.
Wouldn't you honestly prefer modules added of buffed to help catch and combat it instead of just removing it as a option?.
As i remember there was told something aboyt serverside problems. And that they wasn't able to boost Drones and Missiles (to make faster drones and faster missiles). But I need interceptor that would be really good for blockade running. (Like now i have no problem while flying through camps in 0.0 secs on my Crusader) (Flying on Covert Ops is slower and not so funny)
Why it is impossible to make speed of drones and missiles about 10-20 km/s?
I was not referring to increasing missiles and tracking to the point where all you need do is throw out dps to pop stuff without the need to tackle it.
PVP is not PVE and trying to make it so all you need do is hop in your ratting drake or raven (or gunnery equivalent) and throw out a certain amount of missiles/ammo towards a hostile ship until it goes boom without the need to tackle it is not a skill.
What the pvpers are saying is that the addition of longer ranged webs that fit only on BS or even scripted webs that sacrifice str for range and visa versa along with the mwd killing scram and a slight alteration to nuets (so they kill cap at the start of their cycle instead of the end if they do not already) is of considerably more player skill orientated and would lead to much better pvp fighting than just swinging the nerf bat blindly at speed and turning gang fighting into slug fest f1-f1 crap.
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source killer
Amarr NorCorp Security
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:08:00 -
[131]
will there come a "text version" of the live dev blog, or did any1 get a audio recording of it? Since i mist it.
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Trimutius III
Amarr Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:19:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Trimutius III on 08/10/2008 15:27:02 Edited by: Trimutius III on 08/10/2008 15:20:53 Edited by: Trimutius III on 08/10/2008 15:19:25
Originally by: lebrata Edited by: lebrata on 08/10/2008 15:06:31
Originally by: Trimutius III
Originally by: lebrata
WHY?.
Wouldn't you honestly prefer modules added of buffed to help catch and combat it instead of just removing it as a option?.
As i remember there was told something aboyt serverside problems. And that they wasn't able to boost Drones and Missiles (to make faster drones and faster missiles). But I need interceptor that would be really good for blockade running. (Like now i have no problem while flying through camps in 0.0 secs on my Crusader) (Flying on Covert Ops is slower and not so funny)
Why it is impossible to make speed of drones and missiles about 10-20 km/s?
I was not referring to increasing missiles and tracking to the point where all you need do is throw out dps to pop stuff without the need to tackle it.
PVP is not PVE and trying to make it so all you need do is hop in your ratting drake or raven (or gunnery equivalent) and throw out a certain amount of missiles/ammo towards a hostile ship until it goes boom without the need to tackle it is not a skill.
What the pvpers are saying is that the addition of longer ranged webs that fit only on BS or even scripted webs that sacrifice str for range and visa versa along with the mwd killing scram and a slight alteration to nuets (so they kill cap at the start of their cycle instead of the end if they do not already) is of considerably more player skill orientated and would lead to much better pvp fighting than just swinging the nerf bat blindly at speed and turning gang fighting into slug fest f1-f1 crap.
U haven't understood me. Of course Cruise and Torpedoes and Heavy Drones should fly the same speed (or even slower, because of such nerf). But why there is no such types of missiles and drones that would be able to hit interceptor (with not really big DPS though) Boosting of webs also good idea, but why not make extra light and very fast drones, and why ships are able to fly faster then any missile. Very expensive missiles with MWD (special edition for missiles) inside why not? ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ |
lebrata
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.10.08 15:42:00 -
[133]
Edited by: lebrata on 08/10/2008 15:46:51
Originally by: lebrata
Originally by: Trimutius III
I was not referring to increasing missiles and tracking to the point where all you need do is throw out dps to pop stuff without the need to tackle it.
PVP is not PVE and trying to make it so all you need do is hop in your ratting drake or raven (or gunnery equivalent) and throw out a certain amount of missiles/ammo towards a hostile ship until it goes boom without the need to tackle it is not a skill.
What the pvpers are saying is that the addition of longer ranged webs that fit only on BS or even scripted webs that sacrifice str for range and visa versa along with the mwd killing scram and a slight alteration to nuets (so they kill cap at the start of their cycle instead of the end if they do not already) is of considerably more player skill orientated and would lead to much better pvp fighting than just swinging the nerf bat blindly at speed and turning gang fighting into slug fest f1-f1 crap.
But why there is no such types of missiles and drones that would be able to hit interceptor (with not really big DPS though) Boosting of webs also good idea, but why not make extra light and very fast drones, and why ships are able to fly faster then any missile. Very expensive missiles with MWD (special edition for missiles) inside why not?
Because ppl would only fly and fit those missiles and not bother to tackle plus its not just about missiles its about gunnery as well.
The real issue is team work, if you need to tackle to kill you need to defend your tacklers so you need to bring ewar and logistics to do so and work as a skilled and well organized team.
If all you need do is hit f1-f8 and throw out dps to kill summat all you will bring are dps ships and the only team work needed is to lock and fire on the same target (so no real team work or skill at all).
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Poje
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:02:00 -
[134]
I saw a lot of talk about reducing speed and augmenting tackling, but one thing i didnt see much is instead of reducing the speed of ships, why not boost the speed of missiles, drones and tracking ?
If we look at today's planes, even if they are very fast, missiles are fast enough to shoot them down and tracking on automated guns is even fast enough to shoot down missiles !
So i would say keep the speed like it is right now, but boost all types of weapons so that shooting down a Nanoed ship is possible, if skilled and equiped properly.
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Trimutius III
Amarr Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:08:00 -
[135]
Originally by: lebrata Edited by: lebrata on 08/10/2008 15:46:51
Originally by: lebrata
Originally by: Trimutius III
I was not referring to increasing missiles and tracking to the point where all you need do is throw out dps to pop stuff without the need to tackle it.
PVP is not PVE and trying to make it so all you need do is hop in your ratting drake or raven (or gunnery equivalent) and throw out a certain amount of missiles/ammo towards a hostile ship until it goes boom without the need to tackle it is not a skill.
What the pvpers are saying is that the addition of longer ranged webs that fit only on BS or even scripted webs that sacrifice str for range and visa versa along with the mwd killing scram and a slight alteration to nuets (so they kill cap at the start of their cycle instead of the end if they do not already) is of considerably more player skill orientated and would lead to much better pvp fighting than just swinging the nerf bat blindly at speed and turning gang fighting into slug fest f1-f1 crap.
But why there is no such types of missiles and drones that would be able to hit interceptor (with not really big DPS though) Boosting of webs also good idea, but why not make extra light and very fast drones, and why ships are able to fly faster then any missile. Very expensive missiles with MWD (special edition for missiles) inside why not?
Because ppl would only fly and fit those missiles and not bother to tackle plus its not just about missiles its about gunnery as well.
The real issue is team work, if you need to tackle to kill you need to defend your tacklers so you need to bring ewar and logistics to do so and work as a skilled and well organized team.
If all you need do is hit f1-f8 and throw out dps to kill summat all you will bring are dps ships and the only team work needed is to lock and fire on the same target (so no real team work or skill at all).
Like u can make special AntiInerceptor Cruiser, which will be using such drones (for Gallente), missiles (for caldari) and gunnery (for amarr and minmatar), they will be not very well tanked, so killing single interceptor will be easy, but for normal pvp u'll still will need a gang. And u know taklers will still be needed, if this ship will be good only against frigates. ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ |
Commodore Thurn
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:11:00 -
[136]
make speed a multiple of sig radius, the higher the speed the larger the sig radius of ships. this way ships could still benefit from speed by being able to put distance between themselves and other ships, but if they mix it up in orbit around other ships they will be vulnerable to receiving damage because their sig radius makes them easier to hit
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Telula
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:11:00 -
[137]
I'm wondering what will happen to Officer webs and scramblers?
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Optimus Primairy
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:13:00 -
[138]
Question: Are you gonna listen to the nano users that have been ganking other ppl for 2 years in the most horible way and now are afraid to be ganked very badly cause of their skill layout?
Hope not.. its only the speedfreaks that are complaining really
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Trimutius III
Amarr Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:14:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Poje I saw a lot of talk about reducing speed and augmenting tackling, but one thing i didnt see much is instead of reducing the speed of ships, why not boost the speed of missiles, drones and tracking ?
If we look at today's planes, even if they are very fast, missiles are fast enough to shoot them down and tracking on automated guns is even fast enough to shoot down missiles !
So i would say keep the speed like it is right now, but boost all types of weapons so that shooting down a Nanoed ship is possible, if skilled and equiped properly.
exactly what I was asking. As i remember there was some serverside problems with such speed. Why CCP couldn't solve that probems? (if i understood right the first devblog about nanonerf) ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ |
KillingMe Hardly
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:19:00 -
[140]
I have some question? request?!;
1. IMO, Speed Balance is NP, But its true that there is no opposition plan now. I neeeeeeeeeed web bubble!!! wanna propose!! 2. Do U know Interdictor? How does this ship use it atm??? I usually call this ship "Cuffin" I think this ship is no need atm because there is Heavydictor.... PLS MANAGE TO DO FOR HELP THIS SHIP!!!
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:35:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Poje I saw a lot of talk about reducing speed and augmenting tackling, but one thing i didnt see much is instead of reducing the speed of ships, why not boost the speed of missiles, drones and tracking ?
If we look at today's planes, even if they are very fast, missiles are fast enough to shoot them down and tracking on automated guns is even fast enough to shoot down missiles !
So i would say keep the speed like it is right now, but boost all types of weapons so that shooting down a Nanoed ship is possible, if skilled and equiped properly.
Speeds over 8km/s breaks the physics engine. That's why it's not really a very good solution.
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shnooker
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:37:00 -
[142]
I think that most of you speed tards are missing the whole concept here about what CCP is saying why have ships that are constantly untouchable for instant as everyone has obviously chosen often the VAGA for a minmatar pilot who is going to make a 10k per sec cruiser and never be touched by guns missiles or anything and is able to take down 1 single battleship and not get a scratch is a little ******ed especially when all other races have the same tech 2 ability. Stopping a vaga is imposible with other races cause they can't do the same speed to do so and the vaga is able to coast out of a rapiers range quite easily along with the ishtar no one cares about the speed really people want to be able to protect them selves from most speed tards who rely on speed to win.
1. I think speed should not be cut but the range of they're drones lowered alot. To have the speed on a vaga or an ishtar with 80km range with drones is rediculous.
2. I think guns and missiles should be able to track and hit the targets all the time and not get a hit of 0.0 cause the speed tard is doing 10k and hitting you doing 175 damage per hit.
3 for gate camps to solve that problem and get people to use tech 2 have the T2 BUBBLE be capable to shut down all forms of microwarp drives cause it causes the same type of anomalies as what it does in a mission to prevent people to use it hense brings back after burners as well
So all in all what I am saying I don't care about the speed at all but even speed has it's limits to be able to tank. Damage should still be recieved no matter how fast you go
And as far as the people go with they're ideas CCP is trying to keep a slight REALISM to this game to not make it seem arcadish the way most of you would like it that is what makes EVE so unique STICK to the real thing
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Bruder Predaiter
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:46:00 -
[143]
Make the speednerv and do it quick!!!!!!!!!!
I think BOB and the pets are against the nerv, so CCP dont patch the server. CCP is on BOB¦s side.
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Galvatr0n
Gallente LEGI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:46:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Galvatr0n on 08/10/2008 16:46:57 I would like to know how CCP intends to justify changing the game in such a radical way when I and many others have spent a large amount of money on this game in order to A) train the skills it takes to fly these ships as the are skill intensive and being skill intensive should be hard to kill (and will we be able to move around our sp when the ships that we had trained for become obsolete since you changed them after we trained them?), B) Are you going to deposit isk into our accounts from the drop in price of items which were very expensive to buy thus making the ships harder to kill because the cost anywhere from 200 million isk to 2-3 billion isk. Should ships that cost this much and require millions of specific sp to fly not be difficult to kill?
And to Nozh I would like to know if you feel like maybe you are doing something wrong and that you have some very bad ideas and maybe listen to whining carebears to much or people that are too mentally shallow to think about how to stop various ship setups? Does it bother you that both your carrier nerf idea and now your nano nerf + screwing with unbroken mods idea have recieved the biggest outcrys of opposition in Eve's history? To management, maybe you need a new lead dev.
WE ARE LEGI0N. WE DO NOT FORGIVE. WE DO NOT FORGET. EXPECT US. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:51:00 -
[145]
Originally by: lecrotta
Oh joy you managed to tackle solo a single ship, im sure that means that if you and he were in a gang you would still be able to survive longer than the first volley from hiss buddies?...no...short sighted unrealistic moron much?.
This just shows how little you really know about how combat works TODAY even. I can obliterate any frig in an anti support sniper like the zealot in seconds. Your frig will be dead, speed changes or not. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage |
SnoopDizzle
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:54:00 -
[146]
Whilst better speed in the long term is a worthy goal. Surely more effort needs to be put into making smaller gangs more effective against large blobs. Perhaphs the anti blob weapons that exist need to be updated and bonuses for gangs changed so that there are weapons that get more effective the higher the concentration of ships on one grid. I am not talking about doomsday style weapons but perhaphs something similar to chain lightning that does a small amount of damage to the first ship and more damage as it passes from ship to ship.
We have all seen the latest video and there is clearly an anti capital ship weapon can you provide anymore information about this?
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Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.08 16:54:00 -
[147]
Originally by: shnooker
1. I think speed should not be cut but the range of they're drones lowered alot. To have the speed on a vaga or an ishtar with 80km range with drones is ridiculous.
Fine il just fit drone range augments to compensate.
[shnooker=quote]2. I think guns and missiles should be able to track and hit the targets all the time and not get a hit of 0.0 cause the speed tard is doing 10k and hitting you doing 175 damage per hit.
Wtb vaga or gunship that can track anything at 10kms.
Originally by: shnooker 3. for gate camps to solve that problem and get people to use tech 2 have the T2 BUBBLE be capable to shut down all forms of microwarp drives cause it causes the same type of anomalies as what it does in a mission to prevent people to use it hense brings back after burners as well.
MWD killing bubbles are jump bridges not enough?.
If this happens nobody will jump into a bubbled camp again ever unless they have a massive blob thats bigger than those running the camp.
Originally by: shnooker So all in all what I am saying I don't care about the speed at all but even speed has it's limits to be able to tank. Damage should still be received no matter how fast you go
Doing so will spell the end to ppl flying small ships as without speed a volley from a very few ships will melt quicker cruisers than you can imagine and frigs will insta pop.
Small ships (cruisers down) should need to be tackled to be killed or they are useless in anything other that solo ship ganks.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:05:00 -
[148]
Edited by: lecrotta on 08/10/2008 17:14:03
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: lecrotta
Oh joy you managed to tackle solo a single ship, im sure that means that if you and he were in a gang you would still be able to survive longer than the first volley from hiss buddies?...no...short sighted unrealistic moron much?.
This just shows how little you really know about how combat works TODAY even. I can obliterate any frig in an anti support sniper like the zealot in seconds. Your frig will be dead, speed changes or not.
Ok can you make you mind up about what is good or bad muppet cos your arguing against yourself:-
Quote:
There are no compelling alternatives. Breaking the one thing that fits this role before replacing it would be irresponsible.
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer A mix of EAS, AFs and inties?
So first you claim that "A mix of EAS, AFs and inties" can replace roaming gang nano ships (post 105). Then you clearly point out that even now you can "obliterate" any frig in seconds even now on tq before the speed nerf?.
Wanna make up your mind if they suck or not or does YOUR truth depend on what you want nerfed???.?.
PS have you tried fighting NANO gangs in a mix of logistics, your fast frig obliteraters, ecm and few web and nueting recons?. After all if you can track fast frigs a cruiser should be child's play, we do and its good fun although it may be above you team and individual skill level as you seem to want ccp to do your fighting.
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Philip Sterling
Fat J Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:06:00 -
[149]
I'm suprised i haven't heard much about the lag factor in these threads. In my experience, a short lag on module or warp activation was not a big deal in the past (before speed became as big as it is). Now, when there's more people playing eve than ever before and lag seems to be getting worse before it gets better, a 2 second lag for one ship is enough time for a nano'd ship to close in from 40k and have you scrambled. Maybe it's just the connection out here in middle-of-nowhere utah, but I personally prefered the slightly slower overall pace.
Here's my question: have you guys (ccp) looked at any simpler solutions? eve is such a complex game that changing modules usually has some pretty wild consequences. Maybe it's time to simplify some things. One suggestion might be to just set a new attribute to each ship that is a maximum attainable velocity, regardless of any modules you have fitted (seems simpler than changing all the other attributes).
Another suggestion is to just change the equations for turrets and missiles to make it possible to hit ships going 10k/sec if their sig radius is high enough. IMO, this appears to be the best option. That way there would still be some strategic value in going very fast, but it wouldn't make you invincible. I realise that getting the right math behind that is far easier said than done, but it still seems worth a shot (see what i did there? sweet pun, eh?). There's a lot of folks out there who have invested a lot of training and isk into their speed, and it really would be a shame for that to be a complete waste after the changes go into effect.
P.S. - CCP, please nerf/boost EVERYTHING. |
Rock Gibson
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:13:00 -
[150]
I want you to solve the communications problems of getting knocked off the system when there are more than 20,000 people on! I continue to get knocked off and you should be concentrating on making what you have WORK, before you think about upgrades or enhancements! A lot of people in the US are getting VERY irritated about this and are definitely thinking of pulling the plug and going to another game!
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