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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Zoloft Rx
Forged Prophets
10
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:33:00 -
[91] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Zoloft Rx wrote:GM Homonoia wrote: 2. OR you can set up the rules so strictly and in such a limiting manner that emergent behavior and any form of innovation becomes completely impossible. We could easily fix this by simply making it impossible to attack anyone in high sec ever, no exceptions.This is a situation no one wants.
Instead of making up crazy rules and constantly enforcing them, just fix the game mechanic. EX. Once you get GCC for the illegal crime, you cant warp.. Seems like a simple fix to me.For the role player: system-wide CONCORD warp jammer or something. But it would also limit legitimate gameplay far more than is necessary to address the issue. Very blunt tool to fix one small loophole. A bad fix.
can you give an example of legitimate gam play and "gcc from an illegal act"?
EDIT: oh youre talking about hiding your salvage in a safespot,.. cheap. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2020
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:38:00 -
[92] - Quote
Zavulon Sukkot wrote:I'm still having some trouble understanding why it's even considered an exploit... You still lose your ship, unavoidably so, even. I'm sure somebody at CCP was also aware of the intersection between ship agility and CONCORD arrival time....
Or I would be if all signs didn't point to all the brains there aiming for a forced pve grindfest.
The function of the mechanic isn't just to cause the aggressor to lose their ship. That is just one part of the mechanic. An important one, but not the only one. It's also a limiting and balancing mechanic to manage highsec aggression. What the trick does is still pay the ship loss, but circumvent the limiting and balancing aspect of the mechanic. Basicly it radically reduces the costs of suicide ganking high value targets to the point, that using freighters to haul a lot of cargo becomes idiotic. You can see the issue, that the vessel specifically designed to carry large amounts of cargo becomes vulnerable if it has a couple hundred million worth of cargo to a few pilots with a single battlecruiser. The trick is clever, but rediculously overpowered and very damaging to highsec hauling if it would have been allowed to continue.
Zoloft Rx wrote:can you give an example of legitimate gamplay and "gcc from an illegal act"?
EDIT: oh youre talking about hiding your salvage in a safespot,.. cheap.
Not specifically, but things like saving your pod and drop are good reasons to use as an example. More generally the sandbox game design favors solutions where you fix the issue with minimal effect on other gameplay. This is why you want to address the loophole only, if at all possible and why I dislike people abusing such loopholes, since fixing them doesn't always allow for precise fixes, that don't negatively affect legitimate gameplay. |
Arkady Vachon
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:51:00 -
[93] - Quote
just curious, what happens if you self-destruct before concord gets there?
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Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
98
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:54:00 -
[94] - Quote
Does this new ruling affect missiles, which can destroy a target even after CONCORD arrives, the shooter warps off, or even after the shooter is destroyed? "The Mittani isn't even gone for a day and CCP's management is already making bad decisions."
THE MITTANI for CEO of CCP 1-800-273-8255 |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
158
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:57:00 -
[95] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:TBH, Concord should be a player profession where the cop-players fly the concord ships and they get to chase us baddies. WHOOP WHOOP! SPACE POLICE! FYI, we already get to chase you baddies.
Too bad we don't get CONCORD ships for it though. :(
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Metal Flake
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:59:00 -
[96] - Quote
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:Does this new ruling affect missiles, which can destroy a target even after CONCORD arrives, the shooter warps off, or even after the shooter is destroyed?
unless something got changed recently missles don't impaat after any warp command , they should impact after concord BBQ though |
Zoloft Rx
Forged Prophets
10
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Posted - 2012.03.30 19:59:00 -
[97] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Zoloft Rx wrote:can you give an example of legitimate gamplay and "gcc from an illegal act"?
EDIT: oh youre talking about hiding your salvage in a safespot,.. cheap. Not specifically, but things like saving your pod and drop are good reasons to use as an example.
This system warp jammer i was speaking of wouldn't affect pod.
Also, suicide ganker should forfeit their exclusive rights to their loot. Get a friend or alt compete with other people on grid to get your loot. Why do gankers get to have their cake and eat it too? |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic Tragedy.
1422
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:00:00 -
[98] - Quote
I am not sure I understand this right...
Attack someone. Get a GCC. Manage to warp away escaping CONCORD. Considered an exploit?
If this is true...how does it make any kind of logical sense at all that escaping the police is an exploit? EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Nedes Betternaem
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
87
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:12:00 -
[99] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I am not sure I understand this right...
Attack someone. Get a GCC. Manage to warp away escaping CONCORD. Considered an exploit?
If this is true...how does it make any kind of logical sense at all that escaping the police is an exploit? How does it make any logical sense at all that you can kill thousands of people (lore wise) and billions of ISK per ship, and be completely forgiven of your mass genocide simply because you blew up some pirates in null sec?
Same logic that makes it an exploit to avoid the police... to make the game more fun (some people actually like risk and challenge you friggin carebear pvper). If CONCORD was easily avoided then no one in their right mind would ever fly anything that carried more than a few mil worth of cargo... and the only real profession in EvE would be piracy and there would be no new players because every time they bought a new ship, it would be blown up. |
Spurty
D00M. Northern Coalition.
229
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:13:00 -
[100] - Quote
Fascinating.
Game update consumed and assimilated.
Nice buff or low sec ---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
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Xiaodown
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
56
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:14:00 -
[101] - Quote
Is it against the spirit of the game to snipe page 6? |
Zoloft Rx
Forged Prophets
10
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:16:00 -
[102] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:I am not sure I understand this right...
Attack someone. Get a GCC. Manage to warp away escaping CONCORD. Considered an exploit?
If this is true...how does it make any kind of logical sense at all that escaping the police is an exploit?
It needs to be about how many shots off can you manage before the police arrive. Not whether or not you can escape them. |
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
98
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:18:00 -
[103] - Quote
The way this is written, is now against the rules to warp from gate to gate in high-sec with a Sec Status of -10, since that is running from CONCORD. "The Mittani isn't even gone for a day and CCP's management is already making bad decisions."
THE MITTANI for CEO of CCP 1-800-273-8255 |
Prince Kobol
463
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:19:00 -
[104] - Quote
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:The way this is written, is now against the rules to warp from gate to gate in high-sec with a Sec Status of -10, since that is running from CONCORD.
Erm, Thats not concord, thats the Faction Police |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
158
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:21:00 -
[105] - Quote
-10 is not the same as GCC and does not have the same consequences. Which I am sure any -10 knows, so no risk of misunderstandings there. ;) |
Stabs McShiv
MINUS4
8
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:28:00 -
[106] - Quote
Remove concord allow caps in hisec and allow wardecs on npc corps just give noobs a 14 day immunity to player negative effects (warp scram, damage, ewar etc) for the duration of their trial. Npc police should enforce law in their space. Concord is a lazy fix for a non problem. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
315
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:30:00 -
[107] - Quote
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:-10 is not the same as GCC and does not have the same consequences. Which I am sure any -10 knows, so no risk of misunderstandings there. ;) What if I acquire a GCC in low-sec and then jump into high-sec? Am I obligated to sit still after emerging from the gate until CONCORD kills my ship? |
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:37:00 -
[108] - Quote
Arkady Vachon wrote:just curious, what happens if you self-destruct before concord gets there?
It takes 2min to auto-destruct.. Concord always responds before that.. |
Xiaodown
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
56
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:41:00 -
[109] - Quote
Sentinel Smith wrote:Arkady Vachon wrote:just curious, what happens if you self-destruct before concord gets there?
It takes 2min to auto-destruct.. Concord always responds before that..
What about initiate self destruct, then blap someone with 10 secs left? Is that possible? I don't often self destruct. |
Shar Tegral
134
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:41:00 -
[110] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:TBH, Concord should be a player profession where the cop-players fly the concord ships and they get to chase us baddies. WHOOP WHOOP! SPACE POLICE! Actually I suggest the removal of custom officers and letting FW pilots take over the job.
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Nedes Betternaem
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
87
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Posted - 2012.03.30 20:52:00 -
[111] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:-10 is not the same as GCC and does not have the same consequences. Which I am sure any -10 knows, so no risk of misunderstandings there. ;) What if I acquire a GCC in low-sec and then jump into high-sec? Am I obligated to sit still after emerging from the gate until CONCORD kills my ship? ninja edit. |
Siiee
The Riot Formation Get Off My Lawn
28
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:04:00 -
[112] - Quote
There are two elements in a so called "Sand-box" and the former does not trump the latter. It's CCPs job to maintain the box, and it is absolutely hilarious to listen to those that are out digging in the neighbors lawn complain about the sand.
They had better hope that in forcing CCP to fix loopholes in their mechanics that other currently valid tactics don't get swept up with the rest, all because they couldn't control themselves and their entitlement. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
315
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:06:00 -
[113] - Quote
Nedes Betternaem wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:-10 is not the same as GCC and does not have the same consequences. Which I am sure any -10 knows, so no risk of misunderstandings there. ;) What if I acquire a GCC in low-sec and then jump into high-sec? Am I obligated to sit still after emerging from the gate until CONCORD kills my ship? no... however if you are enough of a moron to jump into highsec with a GCC for no reason, then who the hell cares if you wait for CONCORD, no one is going to petition that so its a moot point. If you are pursuing a target into highsec and immediately start the boomerang tornado strategy, then yes, you deserve a ban. I get a GCC in low-sec, then go to high-sec to perform a suicide-gank. On one hand, I haven't attacked anyone in high-sec to receive a CONCORD response. On the other, CONCORD is already "interested" in me the second I jump in. The new rules essentially disallow me from performing any actions after I make the jump, even though I've performed no action which obligated me to stay "on grid." |
Zleon Leigh
112
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:34:00 -
[114] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Nedes Betternaem wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:-10 is not the same as GCC and does not have the same consequences. Which I am sure any -10 knows, so no risk of misunderstandings there. ;) What if I acquire a GCC in low-sec and then jump into high-sec? Am I obligated to sit still after emerging from the gate until CONCORD kills my ship? no... however if you are enough of a moron to jump into highsec with a GCC for no reason, then who the hell cares if you wait for CONCORD, no one is going to petition that so its a moot point. If you are pursuing a target into highsec and immediately start the boomerang tornado strategy, then yes, you deserve a ban. I get a GCC in low-sec, then go to high-sec to perform a suicide-gank. On one hand, I haven't attacked anyone in high-sec to receive a CONCORD response. On the other, CONCORD is already "interested" in me the second I jump in. The new rules essentially disallow me from performing any actions after I make the jump, even though I've performed no action which obligated me to stay "on grid."
Someone is twisting your arm to make you go into HiSec? Shame on them!
Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |
Nedes Betternaem
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
92
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:37:00 -
[115] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Nedes Betternaem wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:-10 is not the same as GCC and does not have the same consequences. Which I am sure any -10 knows, so no risk of misunderstandings there. ;) What if I acquire a GCC in low-sec and then jump into high-sec? Am I obligated to sit still after emerging from the gate until CONCORD kills my ship? no... however if you are enough of a moron to jump into highsec with a GCC for no reason, then who the hell cares if you wait for CONCORD, no one is going to petition that so its a moot point. If you are pursuing a target into highsec and immediately start the boomerang tornado strategy, then yes, you deserve a ban. I get a GCC in low-sec, then go to high-sec to perform a suicide-gank. On one hand, I haven't attacked anyone in high-sec to receive a CONCORD response. On the other, CONCORD is already "interested" in me the second I jump in. The new rules essentially disallow me from performing any actions after I make the jump, even though I've performed no action which obligated me to stay "on grid." Then wait til the GCC wears off... you would be an idiot to go into highsec with a GCC and if you do, you deserve to get killed for your impatience/stupidity. Warping around the grid to avoid CONCORD is exploiting. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
567
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Posted - 2012.03.30 22:37:00 -
[116] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:I'm gonna take a wild guess and say this violates the "spirit of the law". Perhaps you should change the law as follows:
After obtaining GCC and killing someone, it is mandatory for a player to offline all modules, bring their ship to a complete stop, and assume the position.
I think this would get rid of any and all ambiguity. Well at least doing that probably won't get you banned
It never ceases to amaze me just how far some people will go to see what they can get away with. If you don't walk the line, then you won't be in danger of crossing it!
My Interpretation follows:
Evading CONCORD has always been ban worthy. Warping around is evasion, even if temporary, regardless of whether it is ultimately successful or not.
The penalty for GCC has always been to lose the offending ship. Switching ships or removing valuables is a clear attempt to reduce the penalty, so I can't imagine how anybody would expect that to be acceptable.
Getting an off-grid kill after evading CONCORD also seems like an attempt to reduce the penalty: two or more offences for the price of one.
There is nothing wrong with multiple kills per offence (example: smartbombs, multiple volleys), if you don't have to evade CONCORD (warp around) to do it.
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DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
1058
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Posted - 2012.03.30 22:39:00 -
[117] - Quote
ITT we learn that some EVE players very stupidly believe that they know more about the rules than a GM does. |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
92
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Posted - 2012.03.30 22:52:00 -
[118] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:
I wouldn't push the point on this, it has already been brought up at FanFest that they are considering just saying screw it and instituting a "death ray" that simply pops the aggressor within a specific time frame regardless of what other clever actions he may try to take.
Don't give them more reason to pursue that line of thinking.
Yay who doesn't like a death-ray??
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Panda Name
Republic University Minmatar Republic
28
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Posted - 2012.03.30 23:00:00 -
[119] - Quote
what a bad ruling. oh well. ping pong is over. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
316
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Posted - 2012.03.30 23:03:00 -
[120] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:There is nothing wrong with multiple kills per offence (example: smartbombs, multiple volleys), if you don't have to evade CONCORD (warp around) to do it.
Be careful, you might give them new ideas for "re-balancing." |
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