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Avaricia
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.10.07 00:58:00 -
[1]
i petitioned this, because the concord behavior is clearly flawed, to save some valuable thought processes i'll post the content of my petition here:
while traveling through highsec in an in-stab'd jaguar, i was agressed by what initially appeared to be a faction navy. i was able to warp out regardless, but when landing on my destination gate, had been globally flagged because the entity that had shot me was not in fact a navy ship, but a "concord swat officer."
00:28:38 Notify Warping to Stargate (Deninard) 00:28:43 Combat CONCORD SWAT Officer lightly hits you, doing 122.3 damage.
now with an active global criminal countdown, i was unable to jump out of system (note that this is because something else shot at me)
00:29:30 Info You are a criminal and this stargate will not allow you to jump. The criminal timer will run out 14 minutes 13 seconds from now.
i then made a docking attempt and was destroyed by sentry guns.
this cannot be right. something shot me because of my low security status (fair enough, i was expecting it and prepared to counter), but it then globally flagged me so i was unable to jump. i never returned fire nor initiated agression (no offensive modules fit)
since when does concord engage anything for low security status? and since when does it globally flag you? and why was i then trapped in the system unable to do anything but die having committed no (immediate) crime?
madness, i tell you, it's madness! rabblerabblerabble!
this totally screws up my 400:1 killratio
reign of terror griefmatic |
ponieus
the united
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Posted - 2008.10.07 01:11:00 -
[2]
concord has always engaged outlaws..
whats the problem other than the game mechanic not letting you jump?
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Novemb3r
Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.07 01:22:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Avaricia this totally screws up my 400:1 killratio
Who posts kills from sentries?? -
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Avaricia
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.10.07 01:22:00 -
[4]
Originally by: ponieus concord has always engaged outlaws..
whats the problem other than the game mechanic not letting you jump?
it's been the faction navy that engages outlaws. concord only engages in a criminal event.
the problems here are numerous, other than getting a GCC just for being in highsec, by following the line of reasoning that it is an exploit to evade or otherwise survive concord (generally accepted as true) we can assume it's an exploit for outlaws to enter highsec. if entering highsec makes concord angry, you have to die to not be cheating. that's stupid.
reign of terror griefmatic |
ponieus
the united
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Posted - 2008.10.07 01:44:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Avaricia
Originally by: ponieus concord has always engaged outlaws..
whats the problem other than the game mechanic not letting you jump?
it's been the faction navy that engages outlaws. concord only engages in a criminal event.
the problems here are numerous, other than getting a GCC just for being in highsec, by following the line of reasoning that it is an exploit to evade or otherwise survive concord (generally accepted as true) we can assume it's an exploit for outlaws to enter highsec. if entering highsec makes concord angry, you have to die to not be cheating. that's stupid.
hmm this is why never take my main into highsec to many what-if crap to think about.
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Gen Kumon
Caldari Tedan Tippedai
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Posted - 2008.10.07 02:13:00 -
[6]
I know this seems obvious, but you weren't in a CONCORD system, were you? Because it sounds like you were very near Yulai. Kemerk, perhaps? If you enter CONCORD space as an outlaw, they will kill you, because they *are* the faction police.
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Avaricia
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.10.07 02:22:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gen Kumon I know this seems obvious, but you weren't in a CONCORD system, were you? Because it sounds like you were very near Yulai. Kemerk, perhaps? If you enter CONCORD space as an outlaw, they will kill you, because they *are* the faction police.
oh snap, you might be on to something. forgot concord held sov anywhere. it was indeed kemerk, which i suppose explains the concord agression.
but being denied to jump simply for being there? if they behaved as navy npc's that'd be one thing... but GCC and gates denying jumps? lame.
reign of terror griefmatic |
Gen Kumon
Caldari Tedan Tippedai
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Posted - 2008.10.07 02:26:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Avaricia
but being denied to jump simply for being there? if they behaved as navy npc's that'd be one thing... but GCC and gates denying jumps? lame.
Likely linked to the aggression from CONCORD. You were flagged to them once they engaged you, and I think due to the way the aggression mechanics are set up in relation to CONCORD, it treated you as having made a hostile action, because otherwise if you did something normal to **** CONCORD off, you'd be able to escape if you could manage to stay alive long enough to jump.
Yeah, it does kinda suck, but without CCP doing some major work-arounds, the only thing you can do is to avoid the few CONCORD/DED held systems.
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Avaricia
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.10.07 02:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Gen Kumon
Originally by: Avaricia
but being denied to jump simply for being there? if they behaved as navy npc's that'd be one thing... but GCC and gates denying jumps? lame.
Likely linked to the aggression from CONCORD. You were flagged to them once they engaged you, and I think due to the way the aggression mechanics are set up in relation to CONCORD, it treated you as having made a hostile action, because otherwise if you did something normal to **** CONCORD off, you'd be able to escape if you could manage to stay alive long enough to jump.
Yeah, it does kinda suck, but without CCP doing some major work-arounds, the only thing you can do is to avoid the few CONCORD/DED held systems.
yea i figured that's what happened once you pointed out sov. i maintain that's stupid, however.
lesson learned anyway
reign of terror griefmatic |
Jane Peaches
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Posted - 2008.10.07 04:15:00 -
[10]
You can possibly petition that, but an a-frig isn't to big of a loss.
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Avaricia
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.10.07 04:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jane Peaches You can possibly petition that, but an a-frig isn't to big of a loss.
for most people an af is pretty cheap, but it was rigged and faction fit (not dying very frequently allows certain luxuries like sentry-tanking af's)
my alt was nearby and was able to recover what dropped, so i'm out some rigs and the ship basically, still a 40-50m annoyance. we'll see what the gm's say, but since it was a concord system they'll probably just tell me it's working as intended
reign of terror griefmatic |
Bai ZongTong
Genos Occidere
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Posted - 2008.10.07 06:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Avaricia
Originally by: Jane Peaches You can possibly petition that, but an a-frig isn't to big of a loss.
for most people an af is pretty cheap, but it was rigged and faction fit (not dying very frequently allows certain luxuries like sentry-tanking af's)
my alt was nearby and was able to recover what dropped, so i'm out some rigs and the ship basically, still a 40-50m annoyance. we'll see what the gm's say, but since it was a concord system they'll probably just tell me it's working as intended
i guess now u need to officer fit it to tank concord! --- Bai ZongTong, responsible for all the lossmails in my corp. |
Garmon
Minmatar Heretic Army
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Posted - 2008.10.07 08:20:00 -
[13]
Was most likely a concord system but it's actually petitionable I think, Shigsy was in a concord system the other day in his scimitar, he kept warping around for 30 minutes and the global reset, he made a stuck petition and ccp moved him
signature locked for inappropriate language. ~EVE Community Team
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Fox Ogmo
Caritas.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 14:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Avaricia oh snap, you might be on to something. forgot concord held sov anywhere. it was indeed kemerk, which i suppose explains the concord agression.
but being denied to jump simply for being there? if they behaved as navy npc's that'd be one thing... but GCC and gates denying jumps? lame.
I believe the problem is that "criminal flag" is the same as "aggression flag to concord", the mechanisms are more tightly coupled than makes sense to be but I don't expect to see it change soon. Stick to your pod for hisec, friends/alts should be able to move your AF no probs.
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Rajere
Vicious Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.07 15:46:00 -
[15]
just use interceptors if you're traveling through highsec. Faction Police and Concord will still scramble you, Faction Navy does not. fast inty is about the only thing that can enter warp before Concord can aggress you, and if concorde aggresses you are flagged and cannot evade them. That applies to both concord sovereign systems and concord that were previously spawned by someone else's actions in any highsec system, ie they're already sitting on your gate. I'm not sure if the last changes to concord affect if they'll hang around/how long nowadays so that may not be a problem anymore. How to Fail at Eve
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soldieroffortune 258
Gallente Trinity Council
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Posted - 2008.10.07 19:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Avaricia
00:28:43 Combat CONCORD SWAT Officer lightly hits you, doing 122.3 damage.
[\quote]
wtb, Concord Swat Officer guns
Originally by: soldieroffortune 258
"Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer"
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr The Cosa Nostra La Cosa Nostra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.07 20:04:00 -
[17]
Use shuttles, pods, interceptors, and you could've avoided getting shredded by station guns if you just waited out the fifteen minute timer.
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abbagabba
Gallente Monster Raving Loonies
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Posted - 2008.10.07 21:32:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gen Kumon I know this seems obvious, but you weren't in a CONCORD system, were you? Because it sounds like you were very near Yulai. Kemerk, perhaps? If you enter CONCORD space as an outlaw, they will kill you, because they *are* the faction police.
You were in a CONCORD sovereignty system. SWAT officers don't appear anywhere else AFAIK.
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Avaricia
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.10.07 21:52:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx Use shuttles, pods, interceptors, and you could've avoided getting shredded by station guns if you just waited out the fifteen minute timer.
since i had an actual concord spawn chasing me around system, the only real choice was to attempt docking. every belt and planet and midwarp safespot i went to had concord dropping out of warp shortly behind me.
concord normally ignores outlaws completely until they commit a criminal act, but being their sovereign space i got trapped, unable to jump or simply wait out the timer.
a travel fit jaguar with instabs is about as close as you can get to a ceptor, barring of course an actual ceptor. the concord present on the gate when i jumped in instantly agressed me, a ceptor would have gotten away no easier, and their agression caused a GCC which denied me access to the gates.
based on garmon's post about getting moved in a stuck petition for the same reason, i'll be curious what the gm's say. trapping people in a system with the only option of being destroyed isn't a defensible mechanic.
reign of terror griefmatic |
Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2008.10.07 21:58:00 -
[20]
Shooting at convoys spawned from concord/ded stations also gives a similar result.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Feilamya
Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.07 22:10:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Garmon Was most likely a concord system but it's actually petitionable I think, Shigsy was in a concord system the other day in his scimitar, he kept warping around for 30 minutes and the global reset, he made a stuck petition and ccp moved him
The global reset thing might have nothing to do with CONCORD. I often get it when I shoot stuff in "normal" lowsec systems (usually systems without stations, but that might simply be Murphy's law...). Global resets every few minutes while I sit at a safespot. Relogging doesn't help. Petitions are not answered before days, and all I get in reply is how the GM thinks the aggro system works (which is usually wrong or has nothing to do with my problem) and that I should file a bug report. I even did that once, and it was rejected because I didn't attach a dxdiag file or screenshot (which is both useless for a bug like this)
The bug has been there for two patches now (and counting). All you can do about it is jump to another system, which means if you are in a frigate you are ****ed.
Don't station sentries at CONCORD stations in lowsec also reset global? Didn't test it, but I remember someone talking about it in local.
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Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
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Posted - 2008.10.07 23:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Feilamya The bug has been there for two patches now (and counting). All you can do about it is jump to another system, which means if you are in a frigate you are ****ed.
Don't station sentries at CONCORD stations in lowsec also reset global? Didn't test it, but I remember someone talking about it in local.
If you are stuck use the stuck petition.
When you send in any petition relating to concord mechanics they usually send you a canned response which has nothing to do with the petition. Request escalation to a senior GM in this case.
In relation to bug reporting you need to provide the bug report in their format. However, when I have submitted bug reports in the required format they have been rejected for not being in the format. So nothing new there.
The best method is to discuss it in the forums, petition with the link and escalate it once you receive the canned response that has nothing to do with your petition.
If you have an aggression timer sentries will reset the timer. I believe the GCC timer also resets by the same mechanic. Correct me if I'm wrong as it's been a while since I've operated for extended periods under sentry fire.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Avaricia
The Accursed
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Posted - 2008.10.08 12:50:00 -
[23]
ship got reimbursed this morning, but as head's up to outlaws, DON'T GO THROUGH CONCORD SOVEREIGN SPACE IN AN ACTUAL SHIP!
reign of terror griefmatic |
Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.08 13:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Avaricia
Originally by: ponieus concord has always engaged outlaws..
whats the problem other than the game mechanic not letting you jump?
it's been the faction navy that engages outlaws. concord only engages in a criminal event.
Ahem... System rings a bell... Where you in the Sanctum constellation in Genesis?
It's CONCORD sovereignty and the faction police here is CONCORD. You are not the first nor the last to get caught by that technicality. This make this place a good one for ninja looting, got a covert ops cloak of a -2.1 guy in yulai back when they were 80 millions. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Dire Radiant
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:02:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Avaricia ship got reimbursed this morning, but as head's up to outlaws, DON'T GO THROUGH CONCORD SOVEREIGN SPACE IN AN ACTUAL SHIP!
Good use for AP System Avoidance. What are the concord SOV systems?
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