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Perfect Diamond
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Posted - 2008.10.07 02:40:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 07/10/2008 02:40:41
Militia is like a NPC allaince or faction that has PC corps.
The problem is , and I heard that CCP doesn't care, is militia members tricking other militia members into getting kill rights.
Fine, a person is stupid enough to get kill rights. Their mistake. But the problem is that there is no way to make these griefing members leave the militia and there are no ways to set standing of the whole militia towards these members, there is no way to send messages to militia to warn people. This leaves the members to grief new players without warning. This is unacceptable and ruins the game.
Those who read, feel free to make suggestions on possible solutions, but for now, I will only state the problem. The problem is Militia members taking advantage of new militia players and no way to warn new militia members.
Amarr is the tank OR gank race.
Not the tank and gank race. |
gu o
Amarr
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.10.07 03:02:00 -
[2]
Edited by: gu o on 07/10/2008 03:05:07
What kind of recourse do we have when militia memebrs are preying on militia members?
There needs to be a way to kick people from the militia with a majority vote, leaving them to be banned for good.
We cannot fight the neutral corps spamming moons since we become globally flagged and we have corps in the caldari militia that intentially kill militia members.
We can't even kill them without being kicked from the militia due to standing lose, but they can kill as many as they want.
Get this straightened out CCP, you created this, it's come to the point where it's going to be abandond.
You've given them a way pirate militia members and we cannot protect ourself since we will loose standing. yet they wont.
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Mutifex
Caldari
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2008.10.07 03:15:00 -
[3]
Yeah... having just been popped by one of my own militia members, seriously... this needs fixing.
There needs to be some kind of serious consequence involved in killing one of your own militia members. Frankly, even game mechanics such as global aggression timers should not be acceptable cause for killing fellow militia members.
There either needs to be a mechanism to have such pilots auto-ejected from militia.. or be able to petition them out of the militia.
This really needs to be adressed in some way if there is any hope of the militia system continuing to be useful.
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Shingly
Amarr
Steel Soldier's
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Posted - 2008.10.07 03:29:00 -
[4]
I agree, it is frustrating to c some one to be engaged. And without risking own standing or corp standing affected you just to have look how they pop other members. Only thing what we can do is reping. And hope that u are in time to rep and let engaged target sort it out.
Play as it would be your last day in EVE |
ollobrains2
Gallente
New Eve Order Holdings
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Posted - 2008.10.07 04:20:00 -
[5]
internal policing is probably the only way but its a risk u take
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.10.07 09:34:00 -
[6]
Exactly how they get kill rights?
- people is looting the wreck/cans they make while non in fleet with them?
- other systems?
If the trick to get kill rights is the wreck/can one it is a well know system and CCp will do nothing. It is exactly as people in any NPC corp can baiting.
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Brigsby5987
Caldari
32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 18:32:00 -
[7]
stop being carebears, worrying about standings, and shoot back.
If your standings really matter that much, guess you will die then.
Working as intended.
_______________________________________
Sig? where. There's no sig here. |
Murk Loar
Caldari
Polytope
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Posted - 2008.10.07 18:59:00 -
[8]
Correct me if Im wrong,but I thought the story played out like this:
*Militia fleet was finishing up hitting a pos,oodin comes along and starts shooting a militia member who he had kill rights on from before.Who also,I am led to believe,was by no means a 'newer' player.So he knew why he was being engaged.
*FC makes the call for fleet to engage oodin,who obviously pops.
*oodin now has killrights on every person who engaged him from that fleet,and for the next day,spent his time popping every single one of them he could find.(Whether his friend/s was there with him is besides the point.)He even stated in militia chat that he was 'just enforcing his killrights'.
(Not that this is really on topic,but if thats the way it played out,theres not much you can do about it except yes,rep your friends or take your chances with the attacker.Killright system working as intended.)
There is no need to make griefing members leave the militia by the way.The solution you should all be looking for is to start teaching the newer players to be observant.Half these blue on blue incidents wouldn't happen therefore negating the issue of killrights.Or maybe,if the aggressing player just has to be stopped,tell the fleet 'Oh by the way,this guy will have killrights on you if you attack' and let each member make their own choice?
Fact is, Ive seen so many of the newer guys who see a blinky red in their own fleet just start unloading on them,even with the FC/blinky member screaming at them in comms for them to stop.You'd more than likely be a tad shitty if every friendly fleet you passed took a few pot shots at you too if you happened to have bad sec status. If blinky pops he can now blow the new guy away as soon as he steps into a new ship.The little purple square is there for a reason people.
And as for saying that oodin is an enemy of the militia..just lol.That corp has smoked more enemies of the Caldari State than most of the player run corps combined.Just sayin'.
/end rant.
Begin arguement. |
Mutifex
Caldari
Advanced Security And Asset Protection
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Posted - 2008.10.07 22:34:00 -
[9]
Quite not the case actually with the situation where Oodin killed me. He certainly had no kill rights on me.
In my case, a neutral rapier warped in on fleet, started attacking a fleet member who was out of repping range, I engaged briefly to chase it off. Meanwhile, this neutral pilot was either working with or an alt of one of the militia members attacking friendlies. He was seen killing militia pilots with Oodin and Tonoppa and largely using himself as bait.
Shortly after this, Oodin warped in, looked at the nicely red flashing fleet that were eliminating a POS, selected me as an easy to pop target and fired.
This was no mistake on his part. He was well aware that the 40 man fleet he was looking at was friendly, this was no miss-fire. This was simply farming friendlies for easy kills.
In a player alliance, such a person would be ejected and named KOS. I see no reason why this should not be a possibility under a militia format. Certainly traitors should be a potential problem in EVE and always will be. However, consequences should also be as much a part of the realism.
As it stands, I personally see this as exploiting game mechanics and hiding behind them to farm easy kills. Some form of action needs to be taken by CCP to tighten up this form of exploit or they might as well shut up shop right now on the whole FW experiment.
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Perfect Diamond
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Posted - 2008.10.08 01:48:00 -
[10]
Let me state that yesterdays example is just one example of people exploiting the game mechanics.
Whatever the case, only friends of oodin believe he was doing the correct thing. The mass majority of people that were on yesterday were disgusted by his actions.
There are plenty of other ways to grief militia players, one doesn't always have to kill them and take a standing hit.
BTW, calling people names like "carebears", is not beneficial nor constructive to this thread. Please keep such comments to yourself.
Amarr is the tank OR gank race.
Not the tank and gank race. |
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Perfect Diamond
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Posted - 2008.10.08 01:50:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Perfect Diamond on 08/10/2008 01:51:26
"Go u" suggested that there should be a majority vote to boot these types of people. Unfortunately, I can't trust anyone to act civil. It would be easy for an enemy militia to put sleepers in the militia. When they would get the majority, they could then boot everyone that is a legit player from the militia. So, this idea has it's own problems.
Simple lists of offenders will not fix the problem. It is inefficient to have to check lists when accepting invites to gangs. We need a solution and we need CCP to jump on board.
Amarr is the tank OR gank race.
Not the tank and gank race. |
M0rning5tar
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.10.09 04:57:00 -
[12]
Edited by: M0rning5tar on 09/10/2008 04:58:33
There are many many flaws with the FW mechanic more pressing unfortunately. All plex's are soloable by a properly kitted ceptor and offer no reward, "occupancy" is meaningless, Jade "TL DR" Constantine and her crew joining a militia for the sole purpose of wrecking it (her 10 page essays on the justification of this action are pure LOL), etc.
Fix occupancy and make plexing worth more than (occasionaly) a fight generator with dictated ship classes first. Worry about noobs not understanding the game mechanics at first later. Eve is full of griefing ****ers, better they nubin learn sooner than later.
Edited to properly bash Jade Constantine (possibly the biggest ***got in all of Eve now that Krull Amarr is gone). CSM candidates griefing FW, ain't eve grand?
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Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.10.09 09:12:00 -
[13]
Or you could just, you know, join a player corp?
---
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M0rning5tar
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.10.10 08:26:00 -
[14]
 Originally by: Nuts Nougat
Edited by: Nuts Nougat on 09/10/2008 09:43:45
Or you could just, you know, join a player corp?
also 
Touche.
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Ineun
Minmatar
House An'geles
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.10.10 11:23:00 -
[15]
just make the milita have a voted player run hierarchy, and have a voted kos/kick/ban/30day eveban for exploitation
try petitioning it and see if a gm is finished hav a fap to do anything about it or you might get a automated (too busy watchin ****) evemail as per frikkin usual |
RedSplat
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Posted - 2008.10.10 11:30:00 -
[16]
Only the morons and smacktards get caught out, anyone who has been in a militia fleet knows the types, the ones who get invited once then never again. Natural selection is a wonderfull thing.
Regardless, killing fellow militia members should have consequence; purely from a RP point of view, concord sanctioned warfare shouldnt allow such actions without accountability.
Making persistent offenders flagged as outlaw to militia members everywhere, even following leaving the militia, after a number of offences would go a long way to adressing the problem.
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Lubomir Penev
Section XIII
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.10 13:23:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Mutifex
Shortly after this, Oodin warped in, looked at the nicely red flashing fleet that were eliminating a POS, selected me as an easy to pop target and fired.
So let me stress, you are out pirating, and a militia member upholding the law should be handled by CCP? He should be commended for his action.
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Lubomir Penev
Section XIII
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.10 13:23:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 10/10/2008 13:24:06
edit: double post |
M0rning5tar
Series of Tubes
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Posted - 2008.10.11 01:54:00 -
[19]
Edited by: M0rning5tar on 11/10/2008 01:56:45
Quite a simple solution actually. Make shooting milita mates (even WT militia mates) lower your militia standing. This will deter any long term griefing - but still allow you to blow up any ****er you'd like once or twice. Further killing of your m8's will get you and/or your corp kicked out.
As far as actually policing militia chat I can tell you first hand it's not necessary. All the Amarr FC's share a common command channel and other's descriptions of "weeding" people out is quite accurate. Sure a jerk might disrupt an op once or twice, then he won't be ganged up.
In summation: ccp policing militia chat is unnecessary and silly. It works as it is intended to.
In order to keep Griefing lame asses like Jade "TL DR" Constantine from ruining fw for the newer players simply make them take a standings hit for popping militia mates. Simple problem simple solution. Also, feel free to point and laugh at this arrogant and fusty CSM delegate griefing ccp's current baby (FW) and no one calling him out on it.
Only in eve. 
I expect a few of your fanbois to rush to defend your honour, but you're such a joke it is a hopeless case. 
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