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Reaver Babe
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:22:00 -
[1]
Last month CCP was gung-ho about this nano nerf that would have crippled many minmatar ships to the point of uselessness as well as blasterboat pilots. Now I hear crickets. Will it happen? If so, when? have there been any new details released on it? I need to know because it will affect my training path over the next few weeks.
I was going to crosstrain to minmatar but now I'm not sure. Will HACs for the most part even have a use now? Or will ships like the Deimos, Sacrilege, and Zealot be replaced by t1 battleships?
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:23:00 -
[2]
There's a live dev blog on it in a few hours, IIRC. Go check out the Eve Info portal for details. Record and post it for me to listen to while I'm at work.
-Liang --
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:26:00 -
[3]
I think its really good that this is taking time. There are a lot of soverly simple, unbalanced, game-breaking changes that could be put on TQ tomorrow. . .but thats not what the folks at CCP want to do - they want to 'get it right' - a perfect world where speed fits are still possible.
This is going to be a long process - and thats a sign of promise. ----
ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense. |
Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2008.10.08 17:31:00 -
[4]
the main vibe i think is this:
People want to know if there is going to be a change to nanoships and if there is when it is. If its 6 motnhs to a year away they can get some nano gangs togther and fire fire with fire. While they dont know whats going to happen they sit by and get owned by them daily.
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa.
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Posted - 2008.10.08 18:05:00 -
[5]
btw, minmatar is more than nano
just had to post that since OP seemed to think so (sorry if you didn't) -sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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CrayC
Gallente CrayC Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.08 18:06:00 -
[6]
I love when people wants to train for FOTM ships, only because they are FOTM
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2008.10.08 18:10:00 -
[7]
Originally by: adriaans btw, minmatar is more than nano
just had to post that since OP seemed to think so (sorry if you didn't)
I agree. My Tempest is completely awesome and far better than any Raven or Apoc.
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There's really two kinds of (successful) Minnie ships: Oversized plate+AC and nano. Anything else and you're far better served by having trained another race.
Thus, with an impending nano nerf and CCP's relative refusal to make allowances even for the ships that are supposed to be nanod, I can't in good conscience recommend someone train Minnie.
Alot depends on the upcoming live dev blog. :)
-Liang --
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 00:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: adriaans btw, minmatar is more than nano
just had to post that since OP seemed to think so (sorry if you didn't)
I agree. My Tempest is completely awesome and far better than any Raven or Apoc.
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There's really two kinds of (successful) Minnie ships: Oversized plate+AC and nano. Anything else and you're far better served by having trained another race.
Thus, with an impending nano nerf and CCP's relative refusal to make allowances even for the ships that are supposed to be nanod, I can't in good conscience recommend someone train Minnie.
Alot depends on the upcoming live dev blog. :)
-Liang
i do agree with you, but you forgot the insane active shield tankers (sleip, claymore particulary (also, cyclone, and mael)), if you want to go BS's or HAC's i would recommend another race, but for t1 cruiser (rupture gank mode) and frigate (rifter) and command ships (sleip and claymore are IMO the best solo CS's), you can't go wrong.
ofc, keep in mind, my view is very focused on solo/very small gangs.
-sig-
Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
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Archonus
Art of War
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Posted - 2008.10.09 02:15:00 -
[9]
everything sucks, we're all gonna die
________________________________ TEMP BOI MK. 2 |
Amezyarak
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Posted - 2008.10.09 06:01:00 -
[10]
Nano nerf: Yes/No?
How about "don't really care?"
I'm sure some of us don't really give a damn one way or the other. I think this particular option should be made available.
The Curse being slow(er) all of a sudden isn't the end of the world.
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.10.09 08:56:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Amezyarak How about "don't really care?"
I guess we don't care about a nano nerf... but about the myriad of gamebreaking changes they were about to introduce as well.
I mean, it was really bizarre. First of all, they were explaining how the top end bonuses multiply your max velocity to ludicrous speed, and then they proceeded to change everything left and right with a sledgehammer, leaving the real root of the problem mostly untouched
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.09 09:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: P'uck
Originally by: Amezyarak How about "don't really care?"
I guess we don't care about a nano nerf... but about the myriad of gamebreaking changes they were about to introduce as well.
I mean, it was really bizarre. First of all, they were explaining how the top end bonuses multiply your max velocity to ludicrous speed, and then they proceeded to change everything left and right with a sledgehammer, leaving the real root of the problem mostly untouched
All this and thye cld simply have changed ply's + snakes..CCP fail ahrd on htis one Awesome EVE history
Missiles ba-oom! |
Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.10.09 09:56:00 -
[13]
Yes. Why? Because it's not just a nano-nerf it's a balancer for the whole system. There isn't enough difference in speed at the moment. If you compare ships for example with ceptors, some BIG ASS ships are moving WAY too fast in comparison.
Think about sea vessels. A tanker that would go 1/5th the speed of a racing boat! wtf! In general I liked what I heard yesterday, that the speed will be balanced and that good modules will get the statistics they deserve.
I didn't like that speed can't 100% beat a weapon system. If you are in ceptor flying around a BS. There is no way in hell you should be able to blow it out from the sky with only weapons (unless you have small weapons mounted), but the ceptor shouldn't be able to do any significant damage either. It sounded like "even though i have a BS with BUG guns, i can still shoot down ceptors". Has anyone tried to hit fighterjets with Big Bertha?
But yes, nerf is good. It's not the the nanos that are whacked, it's the whole speed balance. Thank god they actually noticed it (and didn't go fixing the modules...again).
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.09 10:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: P'uck
Originally by: Amezyarak How about "don't really care?"
I guess we don't care about a nano nerf... but about the myriad of gamebreaking changes they were about to introduce as well.
I mean, it was really bizarre. First of all, they were explaining how the top end bonuses multiply your max velocity to ludicrous speed, and then they proceeded to change everything left and right with a sledgehammer, leaving the real root of the problem mostly untouched
All this and thye cld simply have changed ply's + snakes..CCP fail ahrd on htis one
exactly. a simple nerf to polys and snakes would be enough to counter the "ludicrious speed" nanos, and still be able to make ships that go fast, go fast.
but we all know how CCP deals with nerfs (ie, using a sledgehammer approach to nail down a single nail). ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
d'hofren
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age
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Posted - 2008.10.09 10:29:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Yes. Why? Because it's not just a nano-nerf it's a balancer for the whole system. There isn't enough difference in speed at the moment. If you compare ships for example with ceptors, some BIG ASS ships are moving WAY too fast in comparison.
Think about sea vessels. A tanker that would go 1/5th the speed of a racing boat! wtf! In general I liked what I heard yesterday, that the speed will be balanced and that good modules will get the statistics they deserve.
I didn't like that speed can't 100% beat a weapon system. If you are in ceptor flying around a BS. There is no way in hell you should be able to blow it out from the sky with only weapons (unless you have small weapons mounted), but the ceptor shouldn't be able to do any significant damage either. It sounded like "even though i have a BS with BUG guns, i can still shoot down ceptors". Has anyone tried to hit fighterjets with Big Bertha?
But yes, nerf is good. It's not the the nanos that are whacked, it's the whole speed balance. Thank god they actually noticed it (and didn't go fixing the modules...again).
sigh.
A) A ceptor will do no damage at all to a BS currently i) A BS can nos a inty to kill it's cap ii) A BS can fit light drones to kill the inty iii) A BS could even try smart bombing an inty B) The true issue is that the ships that should be fast i.e vaga, and the entire minmatar race are being nerfed in a sledgehammer approach to balancing the ships which shouldn't be stunningly fast. ie. Amarr Hacs / Gall Hacs.
What none vaga pilots just don't understand, is that.. A vaga does sod all damage when it has it's mwd on. A vaga's key skill is being able to run away. The problem is ships like the Sacri and the drone hacs which can perma run mwd, hold a point on a target and hit for full damage...
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Crellion
Art of War Exalted.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 10:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: d'hofren
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Yes. Why? Because it's not just a nano-nerf it's a balancer for the whole system. There isn't enough difference in speed at the moment. If you compare ships for example with ceptors, some BIG ASS ships are moving WAY too fast in comparison.
Think about sea vessels. A tanker that would go 1/5th the speed of a racing boat! wtf! In general I liked what I heard yesterday, that the speed will be balanced and that good modules will get the statistics they deserve.
I didn't like that speed can't 100% beat a weapon system. If you are in ceptor flying around a BS. There is no way in hell you should be able to blow it out from the sky with only weapons (unless you have small weapons mounted), but the ceptor shouldn't be able to do any significant damage either. It sounded like "even though i have a BS with BUG guns, i can still shoot down ceptors". Has anyone tried to hit fighterjets with Big Bertha?
But yes, nerf is good. It's not the the nanos that are whacked, it's the whole speed balance. Thank god they actually noticed it (and didn't go fixing the modules...again).
sigh.
A) A ceptor will do no damage at all to a BS currently <WRONG i) A BS can nos a inty to kill it's cap <WRONG ii) A BS can fit light drones to kill the inty < NOT A FAST INTY iii) A BS could even try smart bombing an inty < HAPPENS ALL THE TIME B) The true issue is that the ships that should be fast i.e vaga, and the entire minmatar race are being nerfed in a sledgehammer approach to balancing the ships which shouldn't be stunningly fast. ie. Amarr Hacs / Gall Hacs. < FINALLY SOMETHING CORRECT
What none vaga pilots just don't understand, is that.. A vaga does sod all damage when it has it's mwd on. A vaga's key skill is being able to run away. The problem is ships like the Sacri and the drone hacs which can perma run mwd, hold a point on a target and hit for full damage... < OVERSIMPLIFICATION
You can do a lot better than this post...
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Dana Su'ul
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.09 10:36:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Reaver Babe Stuff
Adapt.
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2008.10.09 11:00:00 -
[18]
No, people are overusing Falcons, Cerbs and Drakes already ... Why would anyone fly anything else when nothing can speedtank missiles anymore?
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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MMXMMX
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Posted - 2008.10.09 11:23:00 -
[19]
yes
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Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.09 11:44:00 -
[20]
Yes, so long as down the line falcons get nerfed to be as useless as arazu's and pilgrim's
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Xori Ruscuv
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.09 12:00:00 -
[21]
All signs point to
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.09 12:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Gneeznow Yes, so long as down the line falcons get nerfed to be as useless as arazu's and pilgrim's
You think arazus and pilgrims will be useless after the patch?
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Cornette
Gallente Black Screen of Death HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.10.09 12:12:00 -
[23]
While I was mostly positive for a nanonerf when I heard it the first time the negatives is starting to weight over and now I'm not sure I like it anymore.
What I dislike most is the nerf of MWD and change to Warp Scram that will shut the MWD down completely, making a blasterboat a deathtrap for the pilot.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.10.09 12:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Pan Crastus No, people are overusing Falcons, Cerbs and Drakes already ... Why would anyone fly anything else when nothing can speedtank missiles anymore?
Oh right, so you know what the new missile damage formula will be?
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.09 13:53:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Pan Crastus No, people are overusing Falcons, Cerbs and Drakes already ... Why would anyone fly anything else when nothing can speedtank missiles anymore?
Hey dont look at us misisle boaters, im in no way happy. Now their going to nerf missiles which were fine before hand (t1+faction anyway) and i BET their going to overnef them Awesome EVE history
Missiles ba-oom! |
Meridius Dex
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.09 14:43:00 -
[26]
Yes. In spades.
What some people are ignoring in this debate is that CCP not only wants to correct game-breaking ludicrous/invulnerability speeds but to also address gross imbalances in module use.
Thus the ingenious changes to web/scram, ushering in a new era where MWD/web/point is no longer the mandatory pvp loadout. This change not only makes scrams and ABs viable again, it also affects a myriad other modules such as remote sensor dampeners.
In one fell swoop, CCP can make this game a far more complex, strategic experience than perhaps it's ever been. So long as they do their best to balance missiles and such, I trust they are 100% on the right track. -- Meridius Dex --
Amarr = EVE on Hard setting |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 14:58:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/10/2008 14:58:53
Originally by: Meridius Dex Yes. In spades.
What some people are ignoring in this debate is that CCP not only wants to correct game-breaking ludicrous/invulnerability speeds but to also address gross imbalances in module use.
Thus the ingenious changes to web/scram, ushering in a new era where MWD/web/point is no longer the mandatory pvp loadout. This change not only makes scrams and ABs viable again, it also affects a myriad other modules such as remote sensor dampeners.
In one fell swoop, CCP can make this game a far more complex, strategic experience than perhaps it's ever been. So long as they do their best to balance missiles and such, I trust they are 100% on the right track.
MWD is still 100% mandatory for gang combat.
The only way to change that is give ABs 200% or more boost and a large overheating bonus.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.10.09 15:04:00 -
[28]
Originally by: d'hofren
sigh.
A) A ceptor will do no damage at all to a BS currently (Yes, and it should stay like that) i) A BS can nos a inty to kill it's cap (True, but I don't consider them "weapons" in the same sense. They do a marvellous job though!) ii) A BS can fit light drones to kill the inty ( Hmm...odd.. last time i had light drones chasing me...they didn't catch up...) iii) A BS could even try smart bombing an inty (True, not sure it would actually kill it, before the inty pilots decides to get out of there before a second one comes) B) The true issue is that the ships that should be fast i.e vaga, and the entire minmatar race are being nerfed in a sledgehammer approach to balancing the ships which shouldn't be stunningly fast. ( I personally think that this nerf is needed, but Minnis need a boost to raise them on the pedestal that they should be on. We need a nerf + minnieboost)
Minnies should absolutely be the fastest, but the wolf for example is a oddball. It should be among the fastest AF's and still that sucker can have the biggest plate! wtf?
Minnies should be the all speed no tank. Last time I checked ducktape and bubblegum doesn't work as armor.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 15:13:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/10/2008 15:13:12
Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer
Minnies should be the all speed no tank. Last time I checked ducktape and bubblegum doesn't work as armor.
Translation: Minmatar should suck horribly.
Response: Amarr should have capacitor requirement of lasers increased by 500-2000%, they can fire for too long with them lasers. Also, Caldari missiles need to get slowed down. 50m/s sounds just fine for torpedoes.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Zero Threat
Rebirth.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 15:16:00 -
[30]
I dont know about you all, but there's alot of people wanting eve to be what eve was like 2-3 yars ago. No nanos, No nerfs, just stright old school pvp.
solo BSs with tanks, small gangs of 2-3 and actually stand a chance, and not just sit there get wasted by nano-ers.
What if the World of Eve had MWDs removed completely, and Had ABs with a massive bonus to speed on certain ships. And have only the fastest ships as ceptors like they should be.
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