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Limiting the number of titans in game

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Author	Topic
Calexis Atredies Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.09 12:12:00 - [1] Titan blobbing with multiple DD's is becoming a common sight on the 0.0 battlefield and their use leads to standoffs. I believe that the ever growing number of active titans in game is starting to break the pvp system. I am propposing a change not to the ship itself, but more how to limit the number of them being fielded A: in the entire game and B: by any 0.0 land owner. Simply put 1 constellation capital (or perhaps an entire region) = 1 fieldable titan This limits titans to land holding powers only, once a titan is built in the constellation capital no additional titans can be built there until that titan is destroyed. Those currently alwready in existance will be can be assigned a capital constelation currently owned by its corp/alliance, if a constellation capital cannot be assigned (or is lost to a hostile force) a titan becomes an orphan and will be be assigned the next free capital system slot that becomes available. Input welcome from the community
W3370Pi4 Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.09 12:14:00 - [2] lol ? ******************************************** Vitreous Mercoxit ! What else ***************************************
taekwandokid hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.09 12:16:00 - [3] interesting idea, but imo, if you have them, use them. if anything just make them unable to activate a DD device within range of another titan.
Gaelenus Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.09 12:30:00 - [4] I dont know i think thats just a bad idea, it seems to me that it would just shift the game further in favour of the large power blocks making it even harder for new people to enter 0.0 and thats definatly something we dont want. Originally by: taekwandokid if anything just make them unable to activate a DD device within range of another titan. ^^^ this is a good alternative solution. Or make it so that a DD device lease spacial disruptions behind that prevent any other titan from firing thier DD device within a certain tie frame.
Aiko Intaki	Posted - 2008.10.09 12:54:00 - [5] Wouldn't imposing a grid-based DD timer solve the issue more directly? Invent some flavor-text reason why DDs can't be activated in the same grid within some agreeable time frame and then implement it. Sample flavor text reason: "Background radiation is interfering with your Doomsday initiation sequence."
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.10.09 12:56:00 - [6] Edited by: Pteranodon on 09/10/2008 12:56:32 Bad idea. This interfers with the basic right of a player, corporation or alliance to be the best they can be. If a group wants to build 25 Titans & field them who is anybody to say they can't. It is not breaking any of the games mechanics so is a throughly valid tactic.
taekwandokid hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.09 13:05:00 - [7] Originally by: Pteranodon Edited by: Pteranodon on 09/10/2008 12:56:32 Bad idea. This interfers with the basic right of a player, corporation or alliance to be the best they can be. If a group wants to build 25 Titans & field them who is anybody to say they can't. It is not breaking any of the games mechanics so is a throughly valid tactic. Same idea as nano ships, not breaking any game mechanics but they're being nerfed cause its somewhat un-fair, whats the point of bringing a fleet to hostile space to kill stuff when 3 titans pop out on ya and level everything, no chance of gettin away (especially after the speed nerf). I'm not sayin nerf titans, just presenting a view some people might have
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.10.09 13:09:00 - [8] Originally by: taekwandokid Originally by: Pteranodon Edited by: Pteranodon on 09/10/2008 12:56:32 Bad idea. This interfers with the basic right of a player, corporation or alliance to be the best they can be. If a group wants to build 25 Titans & field them who is anybody to say they can't. It is not breaking any of the games mechanics so is a throughly valid tactic. Same idea as nano ships, not breaking any game mechanics but they're being nerfed cause its somewhat un-fair, whats the point of bringing a fleet to hostile space to kill stuff when 3 titans pop out on ya and level everything, no chance of gettin away (especially after the speed nerf). I'm not sayin nerf titans, just presenting a view some people might have If I fly with a gang of 5 tacklers & 10 damage dealers & we come across a small fleet of neutrals. Is it unfair that we have more or are better and they die. Sorry but we must agree to differ-fair has never been a part of Eve-war is cold & vicous & only has one face superiority.
Aramith	Posted - 2008.10.09 13:22:00 - [9] Originally by: Pteranodon Originally by: taekwandokid Originally by: Pteranodon Edited by: Pteranodon on 09/10/2008 12:56:32 Bad idea. This interfers with the basic right of a player, corporation or alliance to be the best they can be. If a group wants to build 25 Titans & field them who is anybody to say they can't. It is not breaking any of the games mechanics so is a throughly valid tactic. Same idea as nano ships, not breaking any game mechanics but they're being nerfed cause its somewhat un-fair, whats the point of bringing a fleet to hostile space to kill stuff when 3 titans pop out on ya and level everything, no chance of gettin away (especially after the speed nerf). I'm not sayin nerf titans, just presenting a view some people might have If I fly with a gang of 5 tacklers & 10 damage dealers & we come across a small fleet of neutrals. Is it unfair that we have more or are better and they die. Sorry but we must agree to differ-fair has never been a part of Eve-war is cold & vicous & only has one face superiority. yes it is a lot different. You still have to work for your victory and may lose some ships in the fight. Now imagine you are a group of 50 to 100 roaming and looking to do some serious damage to some hostile forces. Al of the sudden 2+ titans appear on grid and fire doomsdays (they dont have to lock your ships, they only have to activate one high slot) and now your entire fleet is dead and if the doomsdays are split apart by a few seconds, your entire fleet has also been podded. on to mention that you had no chance to really hurt the grand total of three pilots needed to wipe out your fleet.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.10.09 13:48:00 - [10] This is a idea that I have been spreading occasionally. One Titan per controlled region and one Mothership per controlled constellation. Unsupported Supercapitals will be unable to use any module or launch drones but can be moved around as needed. This will not only limit the amount of Supercapitals active in the game at any one time but also gives territory greater meaning. Fighting for and conquering territory will then have a direct tactical impact on the war effort. The Constellation and Region Capital may even allow a expansion on a resident outpost which allows the Supercapital that is supported to dock. Such a structure would be used to define which ship/pilot is supported and could allow restriction to the access to the ship. It'd be still attackable though, just better protected than floating in space. -------- Ideas for: Mining

taekwandokid hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.10.09 13:51:00 - [11] limiting capitals in regions is far out there, limiting capitals on the battlefield might be something worth looking into.
Pteranodon	Posted - 2008.10.09 14:06:00 - [12] Edited by: Pteranodon on 09/10/2008 14:07:38 Originally by: Aramith Originally by: Pteranodon Originally by: taekwandokid Originally by: Pteranodon Edited by: Pteranodon on 09/10/2008 12:56:32 Bad idea. This interfers with the basic right of a player, corporation or alliance to be the best they can be. If a group wants to build 25 Titans & field them who is anybody to say they can't. It is not breaking any of the games mechanics so is a throughly valid tactic. Same idea as nano ships, not breaking any game mechanics but they're being nerfed cause its somewhat un-fair, whats the point of bringing a fleet to hostile space to kill stuff when 3 titans pop out on ya and level everything, no chance of gettin away (especially after the speed nerf). I'm not sayin nerf titans, just presenting a view some people might have If I fly with a gang of 5 tacklers & 10 damage dealers & we come across a small fleet of neutrals. Is it unfair that we have more or are better and they die. Sorry but we must agree to differ-fair has never been a part of Eve-war is cold & vicous & only has one face superiority. yes it is a lot different. You still have to work for your victory and may lose some ships in the fight. Now imagine you are a group of 50 to 100 roaming and looking to do some serious damage to some hostile forces. Al of the sudden 2+ titans appear on grid and fire doomsdays (they dont have to lock your ships, they only have to activate one high slot) and now your entire fleet is dead and if the doomsdays are split apart by a few seconds, your entire fleet has also been podded. on to mention that you had no chance to really hurt the grand total of three pilots needed to wipe out your fleet. If 50 to 100 ships were roaming looking to do some serious damage & I could field a Titan-would I fight them ship to ship-not on your life. I would bring that Titan into play and claim tactical superiority. You want Eve to be fair but sadly it is not. There is no point in having a Titan capability if the rules of engagement have to change especially if you have more than 1. Where does your arguement end-only field 25 battleships max or 5 HACS-sorry it makes no sense.
Calexis Atredies Quantum Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.09 14:23:00 - [13] Well I response to your point I would say that titans are too easy for people to obtain this far into EVE. Its now just too easy for 1 pilot to counter over 100 (and ruin the game for that many people). Titans used to be coveted gods of EVE... I have sat next to three of them in a POS, they are common tools now. The price tag no longer limits their availabilty, pure and simple.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.10.09 14:32:00 - [14] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 09/10/2008 14:35:09 Originally by: Calexis Atredies The price tag no longer limits their availabilty, pure and simple. You're right. Bearing in mind the 80 Trillion ISK in the EVE economy.. no, not really. Especially since only few players will hold the bigger part of that capital. Huge maintenance costs or other limiting factors would've been necessary to keep them rare. Entry-level expenses alone and a low loss rate are guarantors for a slow but steady increase. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Sir Substance Minmatar MagiTech Alliance Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.09 14:34:00 - [15] the solution to this titan problem is, and always has been, really, really simple. one DD per grid per five mins. this has a twofold effect. 1. no more titan stacking 2. titans used offensively cant DD reliably if the defending side also has a titan, this basically makes a titan a counter for a titan, a very reasonable thing. it also means titans being used offensively are more likely to be fitted in a logistics fashion then in a "lol, lets kill everything in one shot" fashion. dilemma solved? awesome, who wants pizza? - PvPers always say "GB2WoW". the message is that EVE is hard, and people just need to deal with it. wasn't it funny how when nano's started making it hard for them, that all went out the window?
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.10.09 14:38:00 - [16] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 09/10/2008 14:41:08 Hmm, the only downside to a one DD per grid per five minutes solution would be that it is a rather arbitrary solution. But oh well, I guess it's still better than a broken game. I used to think about a 'x titan(s) per alliance/corp/whatever' limit. But it's very hard to get such limits right. All in all though, titans need to be limited. Be it implicitly through entry-level costs or maintenance, or explicitly through hard limits like one per alliance/corp/region or one DD per grid per x minutes. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Aramith	Posted - 2008.10.09 15:03:00 - [17] Originally by: Pteranodon If 50 to 100 ships were roaming looking to do some serious damage & I could field a Titan-would I fight them ship to ship-not on your life. I would bring that Titan into play and claim tactical superiority. You want Eve to be fair but sadly it is not. There is no point in having a Titan capability if the rules of engagement have to change especially if you have more than 1. Where does your arguement end-only field 25 battleships max or 5 HACS-sorry it makes no sense. My arguement only ends with the limiting of the number of doomsdays that can be used within quick succession. I am not saying limit the number of titans in game or limit the number of titans any one alliance can have at a given time. I am saying remove the pointless I-win button that 2 or more titans represent. With as easy as it is to obtain isk these days titans are not limited in number by price. there have been posts on these forums (eve-o in general) showing how easy it is to clear 2+ billion a month farming the right missions in empire high sec and that is with a single character. now imagine three characters on the same account doing the same thing or using multiple accounts. Imagine what some groups are making with the high end moons that they are mining while they run around with all the titans they already have? The game has become a massive arms race. the person that can lag out their enemy or field the most titans wins. it takes no thought, no skill, no strategy, or anything other than the effort to raise the 80 billion to buy a titan (or the 60 to 65 billion to get the minerals to build one).
Washell Olivaw	Posted - 2008.10.09 15:07:00 - [18] (One of) the original background stories on titans had it one shot killing battleships, but no area of effect. Still wondering why they didn't implement it that way. If it has a 20 sec cooldown, it would take a titan 30 minutes to kill 90 battleships. It'll be able to tip the tide of battle, but no longer instantly finish it. Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
Clansworth Burning Sky Labs	Posted - 2008.10.09 15:55:00 - [19] The single shot thing would be nice, but what is the targeting time you're looking at for a titan to lock a BS? What if, instead, the Doomsday was some sort of FoF Turret, which could pretty much single shot random targets. Kind of a starbust type thing wreaking havoc on the ships, but not all at an instant. Gives time for some sort of defenses, and doesn't become an instant I-Win. Could be a very killer effect, to have ships sequentially going boom. As an example, take a loot at the 'secret weapon' the Abaddon fires at the end of the Empyrean Age trailer. FWIW, they seriously need to upgrade the in game effects to get them up to the level of that trailer. New Prospector Class
Jin Labarre	Posted - 2008.10.09 16:10:00 - [20] Edited by: Jin Labarre on 09/10/2008 16:11:12 Edited by: Jin Labarre on 09/10/2008 16:10:48 The easiest way to limit the number of active capital ships is to introduce ship upkeep and maintenance cost to the game. It is fair and square that this is not in the game yet, because it would hurt most normal players. However, it could easily be made reality, if it affects only capitals. If you fly a capital, you are likely not an irregular 3-days-a-month player and if you field a Titan you are guaranteed not to be alone, either. If Titans would cost a big pile of money each month, there would be more pressure to use them as much and as good as possible and there would be a reason not to field one even if you could build it. However, I am completely against any hard caps to the number of ships. If you can build and maintain it, you can field and fly it. Fair and square. Irak could not say "Hey, only one aircraft carrier per Persian Gulf, please." ;)

Nnamuachs Caldari Kiith Paktu Nex Eternus	Posted - 2008.10.09 17:49:00 - [21] I thought i had read something in regards to this not too long ago but was unabled to find it again, i thought there was already a stack nerf against the use of DDD's due to chaining multiple DDD's in the same grid would cause a damage multiplier that would grow higher for additional DDD's. Again i cant find the post that i remember reading this in.. but it was basically a system where 3 DDD's on the same grid would wipe out the titans as well due to the damage multiplier growing per ddd.
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.09 17:54:00 - [22] We already have harsh limits on how many titans there are in game. It takes a ridiculous amount of effort, minerals, and a certain level of sovereignty.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.10.09 19:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Tasko Pal We already have harsh limits on how many titans there are in game. It takes a ridiculous amount of effort, minerals, and a certain level of sovereignty. Yes, so ridiculous that some alliances already have 10+ of them. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2008.10.09 20:55:00 - [24] Wouldnt work, too easy to get around i.e. spam poses in an empty part of space until the titan is completed then take em down again. Trying to limit ship use by cost or mechanics will never, ever work, the only way is to limit them via balance. Perhaps it is time to consider another DD nerf. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.09 21:01:00 - [25] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Originally by: Tasko Pal We already have harsh limits on how many titans there are in game. It takes a ridiculous amount of effort, minerals, and a certain level of sovereignty. Yes, so ridiculous that some alliances already have 10+ of them. As far as I know, "some alliances" is BoB. Seems lame to block construction of titans merely because one alliance has its act very together. Sure, within a year or two, BoB will be able to one shot capital fleets. But I think the simple solution is to limit the number of DD in an area, and it doesn't have to be much of a restriction. For example, one DD of each type in the grid every 15 minutes. Then you don't have to worry about 50 titans warping in and dropping several million damage on whatever is there.
Madd Dok	Posted - 2008.10.09 21:06:00 - [26] what about something similar with industrial/triage/siege mode. something like making the titan unable to warp or jump for 30 mins (more/less).
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.10.09 21:35:00 - [27] Originally by: Madd Dok what about something similar with industrial/triage/siege mode. something like making the titan unable to warp or jump for 30 mins (more/less). Titans already can't jump for an hour after a DD.
Stan Lento	Posted - 2008.10.09 21:43:00 - [28] make it so if 2(or another number doesnt have to be 2) dd's are fired off on the same grid within a set amount of time it creates a black hole or something and EVERYTHING(pods POS's and the titans) dies instantly. and that grid cant be entered for a week without losing ship and pod or something, that way titans will become either useless or suicide ships that u use to kill other ppls titans i think it would be funny at the very least to see this happen
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities	Posted - 2008.10.09 22:14:00 - [29] Originally by: Tasko Pal As far as I know, "some alliances" is BoB. Well then check again. BoB 15 AAA 10 Apart from that: Morsus Mihi 8 Pandemic 6 TCF 5 Overall 80+ titans in game. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.10.10 00:35:00 - [30] Originally by: taekwandokid interesting idea, but imo, if you have them, use them. if anything just make them unable to activate a DD device within range of another titan. I've said it before and I say it again, crossing beams Ghostbusters style, can be powerful but also is very dangerous. Same should apply for doomsday, setting off more than one of them within a certain timeframe should run you the risk of setting off a cosmic anomaly harmful to the titans and their surroundings and not some puny bleed damage harmful, 'swallow your soul' harmful! Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As

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