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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.09 20:39:00 -
[1]
Amarr/Caldari skills.
Your opinions: I want them
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DubanFP
Caldari Kylia Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 20:42:00 -
[2]
Want to get in your enemies face and shove a few dozen bullets up their ass? Go BC/Harbinger
Want to go 3kms and avoid getting hit while doing mediocre damage? Go zealot. _______________
"Cheap" and "Lame" are words created by people who refuse to admit they have been completely and utterly outclassed. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 20:43:00 -
[3]
Depends. If you want range or special abilities, HAC, if you want close-range brawler, BC.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.10.09 20:56:00 -
[4]
Originally by: DubanFP Want to get in your enemies face and shove a few dozen bullets up their ass? Go BC/Harbinger
Want to go 3kms and avoid getting hit while doing mediocre damage? Go zealot.
450+ dps from Scorch is mediocre??
@ OP: if close-range, low-mobility - BC if high-range, high-mobility - HAC
Also, HACs for the pimp factor __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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DubanFP
Caldari Kylia Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 21:00:00 -
[5]
Edited by: DubanFP on 09/10/2008 21:03:47
Originally by: Terianna Eri
450+ dps from Scorch is mediocre??
@ OP: if close-range, low-mobility - BC if high-range, high-mobility - HAC
Also, HACs for the pimp factor
With my currents skilly I can get my hurricane to dodo 840 DPS and i know the harbinger can do similar. 450DPS is good for a cruiser, but it's still a cruiser. _______________
"Cheap" and "Lame" are words created by people who refuse to admit they have been completely and utterly outclassed. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 21:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: DubanFP
With my currents skilly I can get my hurricane to dodo 840 DPS and i know the harbinger can do similar.
I really need to pick a fight with you sometime when you're around Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
DubanFP
Caldari Kylia Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 21:12:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I really need to pick a fight with you sometime when you're around
Did i say it wasn't effective? I think I made it quite clear they are good ships if you want to go fast. Just saying if the op plans on fighting point blank BCs are generally a much better choice. _______________
"Cheap" and "Lame" are words created by people who refuse to admit they have been completely and utterly outclassed. |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 21:14:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 09/10/2008 21:14:40
Originally by: DubanFP
Originally by: Cpt Branko
I really need to pick a fight with you sometime when you're around
Did i say it wasn't effective?
Oh, no, I wanted to do a good old cane vs cane fight. You were actually spotted flying around some days ago in a cane, but I was busy killing something at the time. I'd like to see the 840 DPS setup in action, I run a not so ganky setup personally
Originally by: DubanFP
Just saying if the op plans on fighting point blank BCs are generally a much better choice.
Don't dispute that, I said it as well - want to go short range ganking, pick BC ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.10.09 21:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 09/10/2008 21:09:39
Originally by: Terianna Eri
450+ dps from Scorch is mediocre??
@ OP: if close-range, low-mobility - BC if high-range, high-mobility - HAC
Also, HACs for the pimp factor
With my currents skilly I can get my hurricane to do 840 DPS and i know the harbinger can do similar. 450DPS is good for a cruiser, but it's still a cruiser.
Eh, I guess that's what you get for being a class lower and having 35km optimal ;) I prefer the zealot - it's faster and having longer range, gets to lay down the dps sooner, plus it has almost (95%) of the raw gun dps of the harb. __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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InsanlyEvlPerson
Gallente Night-Stalkers
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Posted - 2008.10.09 21:16:00 -
[10]
everytime i try to look at a T1 hull compared to my zealot, i cry cuz of the lack of resists... everytime i contemplate the loss of that 40% range bonus form my HAC skill on my medium lasers, i cry some more. only time i can even contemplate it is with the absolution i am training for right now... anyway, i love the added range and resists, so i say zealot all the way! ---------------------------------------------
I may be a bit over Zealot, but i cant help myself, its the best investment i ever made! |
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.09 21:18:00 -
[11]
Originally by: InsanlyEvlPerson everytime i try to look at a T1 hull compared to my zealot, i cry cuz of the lack of resists... everytime i contemplate the loss of that 40% range bonus form my HAC skill on my medium lasers, i cry some more. only time i can even contemplate it is with the absolution i am training for right now... anyway, i love the added range and resists, so i say zealot all the way!
You have to understand a HAC's role is not close-range brawling. Leave that to BCs which outdo HACs at close range easily with their superior EHP and damage.
What a BC cannot and a HAC can do is mid-range anti-support, etc. (except in case of a Munnin, in which case the Hurricane can do it all better really)
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.09 22:21:00 -
[12]
Sorry, I should have been more clear. Should I go HAC -> level V or BC -> level V
I can fly both, but which should I specialise in, what with the nano patch coming up and all.
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Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2008.10.09 22:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Malcanis Sorry, I should have been more clear. Should I go HAC -> level V or BC -> level V
I can fly both, but which should I specialise in, what with the nano patch coming up and all.
BC V; it's faster, more applicable, and gets you to command ships.
Or do what I do and train both! __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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P'uck
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Posted - 2008.10.09 22:58:00 -
[14]
I'd say BC because it means unlocking CS AND better performance for 8 ships, whereas HAC V only gives better performance on 8 ships without unlocking anything.
Also to make use of BC V on all races you'd only need racial cruiser 3 and the weaponskills, the HACs would need racial cruiser V.
Depends on your skillplan I guess... I'd go for BC.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.09 23:18:00 -
[15]
For fleets? HACs are ALOT more fun then BCs. Solo/small gang/low sec, BCs prolly more useful. Eagle, zealot, cerb, sac all great ships. |
Aleus Stygian
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Posted - 2008.10.10 00:00:00 -
[16]
Depends on your intents and skills. The Amarr HACs are probably the best around at what they do, one being a lovely face-melter for fleet, and the other being a rather good gang-ship for smaller groups that will blast the ass off a whole lot of things with sustained fire. Not to say the Zealot can't **** a whole lot of things in a small gang as well. It's just better suited as fire support when you want something speedy and can't go with an Apoc. The Caldari HACs aren't as much 'top of the game', but they do a decent job at least, the Cerb most noticeably being a very good deterrent to speed-oriented ships.
On the Battlecruiser side though, there's not so much that I personally would want to fly or recommend. The Absolution and Vulture are both right out, being rather useless both. The Harbinger is another facemelter with class, but for the sacrifices one has to make instead of flying a Zealot, well... The real reason to put some skills into the Battlecruiser class is for upgrading to Command Ships, and for the dreaded Invulnerable Circuit Board.
Basically, if you want to shoot far and hard and go fast, put your time into HACs. If you want to feel less exposed when the enemy starts firing back and to be a bullet magnet asset to your gang, go Battlecruisers. Or, more specifically, go Derka Derka, Calamari Jihad. |
Zeba
Minmatar Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2008.10.10 00:42:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Malcanis Sorry, I should have been more clear. Should I go HAC -> level V or BC -> level V
I can fly both, but which should I specialise in, what with the nano patch coming up and all.
BC V; it's faster, more applicable, and gets you to command ships.
Or do what I do and train both!
/agree
BC are much much moar cost effective than a hac but once your pimped out on your BC skills they will all transfer seemlessly to a hac. Upside is then you get two effective ship classes for the single additional price of racial cruiser 5. |
Etara Silverblade
Minmatar Dragon and Phoenix
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Posted - 2008.10.10 01:45:00 -
[18]
Originally by: DubanFP With my currents skilly I can get my hurricane to do 840 DPS
I'd like to see the setup for this. Even with skills at 5, I can't find a way to do more then 800 DPS and that's with all the lows full of Gyros which isn't a realistic setup. |
P'uck
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Posted - 2008.10.10 02:06:00 -
[19]
Have you tried using some of the dmg implants, drones and faction ammo?
Also I believe he uses damage rigs, on top of 3 gyros iirc and he won't listen to me that ambit rigs give a higher real damage output in that case
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.10 02:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Malcanis Amarr/Caldari skills.
Your opinions: I want them
Considering the speed changes ud definately be bettor off with BC. Cheaper, insurable and more dps (for tier 2 ofc) x) Plus caldari have the only bc (ferox) that is capable of 150km+ sniping.
HAC's are good fun though, slinging heavies out to 150km in a cerb ftw.
Awesome EVE history
Missiles ba-oom! |
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.10 04:17:00 -
[21]
Train HAC first - work through the Zelot, Sacralidge and start working on either your Curse skills (Recon 5, Drone Interfacing 5, Combat Drone 5 and the rest to 4) or towards the Apoc for fleet action (t2 large beam spec 4, max tank, max cap, basic RR skills).
Either way, work those Amarr skills up.
going caldari would give you a different answer that would revolve around 'Falcons' being prominant. ----
ECCM is a Counter-measure not a defense. |
Dirtee Girl
Omega Enterprises 0mega Factor
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Posted - 2008.10.10 04:21:00 -
[22]
probably harbinger for serious hitting power and gunnery that will pan out better in the long run in my case it did
*
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Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.10 07:38:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: InsanlyEvlPerson everytime i try to look at a T1 hull compared to my zealot, i cry cuz of the lack of resists... everytime i contemplate the loss of that 40% range bonus form my HAC skill on my medium lasers, i cry some more. only time i can even contemplate it is with the absolution i am training for right now... anyway, i love the added range and resists, so i say zealot all the way!
You have to understand a HAC's role is not close-range brawling. Leave that to BCs which outdo HACs at close range easily with their superior EHP and damage.
What a BC cannot and a HAC can do is mid-range anti-support, etc. (except in case of a Munnin, in which case the Hurricane can do it all better really)
Drake or Harb can't do "mid range"?
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.10 07:41:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: InsanlyEvlPerson everytime i try to look at a T1 hull compared to my zealot, i cry cuz of the lack of resists... everytime i contemplate the loss of that 40% range bonus form my HAC skill on my medium lasers, i cry some more. only time i can even contemplate it is with the absolution i am training for right now... anyway, i love the added range and resists, so i say zealot all the way!
You have to understand a HAC's role is not close-range brawling. Leave that to BCs which outdo HACs at close range easily with their superior EHP and damage.
What a BC cannot and a HAC can do is mid-range anti-support, etc. (except in case of a Munnin, in which case the Hurricane can do it all better really)
Drake or Harb can't do "mid range"?
They can, but a Zealot does it better then a Harbringer, and a Cerberus does longer ranges much much better then a Drake. On the other hand, at short ranges, Zealot/Cerb fail compared vs Harbringer/Drake.
It was what I was roughly trying to say ;)
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.10.10 09:13:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Esmenet on 10/10/2008 09:14:07 Hacs are practically dead after next patch. Go with BC V. Cheaper and better. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr Developmental Neogenics Amalgamated
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Posted - 2008.10.10 09:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Esmenet Edited by: Esmenet on 10/10/2008 09:14:07 Hacs are practically dead after next patch. Go with BC V. Cheaper and better.
I find your lack of faith disturbing. |
Dr Sheepbringer
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Posted - 2008.10.10 09:26:00 -
[27]
All depends if you want to go tactical or just park next to them and kick them in the noggins!
BC = the nogging kicker HAC = tactical |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2008.10.10 09:48:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Esmenet Edited by: Esmenet on 10/10/2008 09:14:07 Hacs are practically dead after next patch. Go with BC V. Cheaper and better.
more people with this attitude will make HACs cheaper for me :-) |
Delichon
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.10.10 09:56:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Cerberus does longer ranges much much better then a Drake.
I would say - in mid-ranges you should be comparing HAM Cerb with HM-Drake. And guess who will have 30% higher damage :) But with HAMS tank on a Cerb is just marginally better than wet-paper bag, while HM-Drake is DD-proof FFS!
In close ranges we are comparing HAM-Cerb with HAM-Drake - the later being pure pwnage and a no-brainer :(
And Drake does not operate in long ranges at all (unless you go nuts on rigs - while still being unable to hit up to 150km) |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.10 12:18:00 -
[30]
OK what I'm hearing here is that the Eagle and Cerb will still be as good as they are now - or even better - after the patch, as lower speeds will make range much more powerful, and they're both pretty terrible for up-close combat anyway. In fact with slower speeds, they might actually do better because they can use "Short" range weapons out to much greater range than their rivals. My Sacriledge isn't really speed-fitted anyway, and will basically be a more agile/less DPS Drake. I haven't flown a Zealot yet cos I don't have T2 lasers trained, so I can't really infer much except that it seems that I can still use it like a laser-equivalent of an Eagle to good effect, but I won't be able to use it for zoomzoompewpew fun (sadness).
On balance, I'll probably train HAC V. I love T2 cruisers too much ; BCs are kinda slow and clunky for my taste, and none of command ships really interest me except as gang link platforms for my leadership alt to use. If the patch really does nerf amarr/caldari HACs so much, well then I'll try and make the best of it. Having the ship skill maxed out will help in that respect.
PS I already have Recon V - that's a different thread...
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