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Reaver One
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.10.10 06:26:00 -
[1]
Preamble: I know shield boosters are a no-no on fleet snipers. Did it anyway to buy myself some tank. Fixed my range goal at 200k so I could pal around with the cool kids with laz0rz.
Lows: 3 Mag Stab II's Tracking Enhancer II DCU II
Mids: 100MN MWD II Invuln II LSE II Tracking Comp II (Range) Sensor Booster II (Range) Large Cap Booster II (400's)
Highs: 8 x 350mm Rail II's (Spike)
Rigs (yeah, I know, blow me): Hyb Locus Coord Core Def Extender Ionic Field Proj
Stats: Shield Resists - 51/61/71/76 EHP: 76,500 DPS (Alpha): 273 (1152) Optimal (Targeting): 203k (210k) Cap: 1m24s on burner, stable without burner
Notes: 1. I've been told not to rig fleet snipers, but I figure if I've got the scratch, why not do it? 2. I have FW fleet sniping experience, but none in 0.0 (which is what I'm trying to design for), so if the above looks like a ****** made it, that's why. 3. I have no idea what kind of tank is required to resist a DD, so if someone knows (and if the above ain't cutting it), please share with the class. 4. I hate trying to jam a MWD on this boat. I don't have to do it for low-sec (no bubbles, whee!), and it absolutely kills the cap, the tank and the teeth of this boat. So I'm *****ing at you about it for some reason. So there. 5. I've read oodles of Rokh setup threads. Most of them list the standard setup with absolutely no tank and too much range. So I made this thing. 6. All stats are at my current skill levels. It probably looks better with all fives, but I ain't that guy.
Well?
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.10 06:49:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Reaver One 3. I have no idea what kind of tank is required to resist a DD, so if someone knows (and if the above ain't cutting it), please share with the class.
80k EHP on the appropriate damage type. The Rokh can do this easily.
Quote: 4. I hate trying to jam a MWD on this boat. I don't have to do it for low-sec (no bubbles, whee!), and it absolutely kills the cap, the tank and the teeth of this boat. So I'm *****ing at you about it for some reason. So there.
MWD is mandatory on all PvP ships, period. Fit a MWD or become a comedy killmail.
Quote: 5. I've read oodles of Rokh setup threads. Most of them list the standard setup with absolutely no tank and too much range. So I made this thing.
Tank is irrelevant for a fleet sniper, and if you want less range you load higher-damage ammo. And you should NEVER use spike on a Rokh, as you get more damage and equal range with faction.
Here is the correct setup, assuming you want 200km range:
[Rokh, New Setup 1] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L
Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
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Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.10 06:56:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kadoes Khan on 10/10/2008 07:02:50 [Rokh, Fleet] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Reactor Control Unit II Damage Control II
Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L
Shoots to 194+30km(locks to 226), 81k EHP, 321 DPS(1688 Alpha). If you want you can ditch an invuln for a tracking comp with optimal script to push your range to 224 but that's often going to be a bit excessive. No rigs needed...
Quote: as you get more damage and equal range with faction
Eh? To get equal range you'd need to use Iron which would blow goats. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.10 07:03:00 -
[4]
Edited by: BiggestT on 10/10/2008 07:03:35
Why no spike on a rokh merin? The damage is higher than iridium, but iridium only goes to bout 170ish, Spike will go to 250+ Sure the tracking is poor, but this is made up for by having a long range which is less affected by transveral speed. If you use long range faction ammo, u still wont hit out as long, and youll have poorer damgage (bad considering the already horrible dps for rails) Awesome EVE history
Missiles ba-oom! |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.10 08:03:00 -
[5]
Re: Spike L:
The first setup I posted hits out to the lock range cap with CN Iridium, doing the same damage as Spike but with better tracking. Spike would give you 400km optimal, but sadly you don't get to use it. Of course at anything less than 250km, faction ammo will out-damage Spike by a considerable margin. |
Furb Killer
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2008.10.10 08:06:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 10/10/2008 08:06:47 But then you can drop tracking comps for more tank and get double DD proof
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.10 08:43:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Tappits on 10/10/2008 08:47:37 The best fit I seen on this page is the top one as itĘs the only one that will have the cap to fire more than 10secs
I have used the rokh a lot in fleet combat as well as megathrons and hypes and one thing that always fails me no matter what dps I might be able to do anything more than a small fight and I am capless and useless. O no my ship is uber it can do 400dps out to 200+ I say yes but I can do 320 for about 50mins which is better?
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Tanks all doomsdays with a mindlinked Vulture in the fleet (which you should have, if you're in a big enough alliance to worry about doomsdays)
? not every alliance in 0.0 can field max skilled Vultures and damnations (theres not just the shield tankers) in every time zone at any time a fight might brake out...no change that i can bet there is not one alliance that can filed max skilled Vultures and damnations in every time zone at any time a fight might brake out
---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.10 08:50:00 -
[8]
Quote:
The first setup I posted hits out to the lock range cap with CN Iridium, doing the same damage as Spike but with better tracking. Spike would give you 400km optimal, but sadly you don't get to use it. Of course at anything less than 250km, faction ammo will out-damage Spike by a considerable margin.
Hmmm, I suppose it works. Rather have the buffer to survive DD and have the time to warp out if under fire. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Leto Corleone
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Posted - 2008.10.10 09:20:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
MWD is mandatory on all PvP ships, period. Fit a MWD or become a comedy killmail.
Let me guess, you are a blaster ship pilot, or why do you think that one-dimensional ? If i'd use a rokh in faction warfare, 425mm rails and navy antimatter for medium ranges, why would i need an mwd ? I can shoot stuff as far as i can target, i don't have to approach. There are no bubbles. If a blaster boat wants to get close, it will web me anyways, mwd won't make me escape. MWD takes a lot of powergrid and cpu, it not only takes away a medslot but limits the rest of my fitting, it also reduces my cap. I need cap to fire turrets and for some modules, such as hardeners, sensor boosters etc. How can a MWD be mandatory here ?
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Delichon
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
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Posted - 2008.10.10 09:48:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Delichon on 10/10/2008 09:48:16
Originally by: Leto Corleone
If i'd use a rokh in faction warfare, 425mm rails and navy antimatter for medium ranges, why would i need an mwd ? How can a MWD be mandatory here ?
MWD allows you to warp from gate to gate in under 10seconds (with normal align time for Rokh being something like 16). THAT'S how MWD "may be a mandatory".
The only ship that does not need an MWD is the one, that never leavs undock range. And obviously caps because we do not have 1 GN MWDs. |
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.10 09:55:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Leto Corleone
If i'd use a rokh in faction warfare, 425mm rails and navy antimatter for medium ranges, why would i need an mwd ?
How can a MWD be mandatory here ?
You jump into low sec and there a camp and you need to get back to the gate? (No wmd deadą with mwd you might make it) 10 sec warps Something just out of range or your trying to get out of somethingĘs range Even in empire fighting I fit an mwd because you never know when it might just save your life |
Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.10 10:03:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin
Tank is irrelevant for a fleet sniper
Yeah in your magic world with no lag, where the hostiles are perfectly coordinated and will one volley anyone targeted, where you don't use snipers to shoot POS, tank is irrelevant.
In the real world, facing foes that are merely human, shooting POS that aren't fully manned, your sniper with a modi****of tank may get out of that bubble and warp out while a Merin approved setup will merely be an expensive wreck. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/ |
Ceremony Garp
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.10 10:07:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Ceremony Garp on 10/10/2008 10:10:05
Originally by: Merin Ryskin ...Here is the correct setup, assuming you want 200km range:
[Rokh, New Setup 1] Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L 425mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Thorium Charge L
Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Hybrid Locus Coordinator I...
Merin,
The above set-up. How long will that last?
*edit* I mean, before capped out? |
Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.10 10:07:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev a modi****of tank
M.O.D.I.C.U.M
Can someone please torture to death the moron who wrote that forum and upload the video somewhere for my enjoyment? <- this is much more offensive and yet pass the profanity filter... Really CCP, do something... |
Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.10 10:15:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Leto Corleone
How can a MWD be mandatory here ?
In lowsec it is not so mandatory but still damn nice to have, mostly for travel purpose (pulse the mwd as you uncloak at the gate and you'll get in warp at the end of the cycle, save a few seconds). Also useful when you change your mind hand have to reapproach gate.
The second usage is surviving a gatecamp, as you jump in a camp and mwd back to gate to jump back. If you are always scouted you should never be in that situation. Most people are not always scouted.
The third usage in a railboat is not to close on your target but the opposite to gain range so you track better.
So maybe not 100% mandatory in lowsec but damn close. |
Lisosianya
Caldari Rade koncar ja
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Posted - 2008.10.10 10:26:00 -
[16]
Any fit for double DD, lots of that this days |
Omarvelous
Caldari Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.10.10 14:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Lisosianya Any fit for double DD, lots of that this days
make it cheap.
2x DD proof = fitting too many tanking mods without range mods.
Also I believe Merin's mandatory MWD was with 0.0 in mind. Low sec, there are a few situations where you may get away without it. If you are doing any kind of traveling though, a mwd will be more useful than the cap penalty and fitting difficulties.
A tech 2 sniper BS is a heavy skill investment. Yuo're fitting the most grid intensive weapons with a MWD - if you're compromising too much to make it work, I recommend flying a Ferox or Eagle to get into the sniping role as your BS skills train up. |
Omarvelous
Caldari Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2008.10.10 14:37:00 -
[18]
Fleet Rokh:
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Reactor Control II
100MN MWD II Invulnerability Field II 2x Sensor Booster II (Range) Tracking Computer II (Range) Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster - 16x 800 cap charges ought to last you long enough for a fleet fight.
8x 425mm Railgun II (Navy Iridium gets you 194+30 opti+falloff)
Anti-EM Anti-Thermal Hybrid Locus
Rigs given are cheap (2-4 mil a piece).
Mid 70's effective HP with invul. Might be enough unless its a maxed out titan - its close. If you have enough intel to pick a specific racial hardener, your effective HP goes to mid 90k vs that specific type. Im not quoting gang effects - I think an invul will be enough vs 1 DD.
300 DPS at 200 plus fall off and its cap stable with 800s.
MWD approved.
1 DD proof.
6-10 mil in rigs so your loss is relatively cheap. |
Azuse
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.10 14:45:00 -
[19]
Double dd proof rokh, cap stable is easy with spike, cap rigs ftw, true cn ammo is much better, but a. cost alot more and b. is near impossible to get in the arse end of no where. |
Reaver One
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.10.10 16:20:00 -
[20]
Great advice here, much appreciated.
I know a MWD is a must in 0.0, no question. Still hate fitting it, but the bubble demands it so I will. As to the MWD in FW (not low-sec in general, just FW), I find it's not useful enough to merit the loss of cap, period. Main reason is I fly in the blob...no blob, no Rokh (I have the Ferox or the Cormorant for smaller engagements).
I've flown the Rokh in FW many times, Haven't lost one yet. I've had to slowboat back to a gate many times, and the tank I can fit without that MWD has seen me through. When I do get primaried (and it doesn't happen as often as it would in another BS, which is nice), I can stick around and slug it out.
I'm in the process of EFT-warrioring all of the above setups, so thanks again for the input. So far Kadoes' setup is interesting, but inferior to mine without rigs, so I'm rigging it up. |
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Lubomir Penev
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.10 19:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Reaver One Both had a superior targeting range though, and it makes me wonder if one should target out to 249km even if one can only shoot to 200km...I assumed that an extra 10k or so above optimal would be sufficient, but since I'm inexperienced, I would be open to discussion here.
With max skills 425mm rails have 31km falloff so even with 200km optimal you'll hit decently to 220km and lod some up to 249km... |
TimMc
Gallente The Motley Crew
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Posted - 2008.10.10 19:54:00 -
[22]
[Rokh, Fleet copy 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L 425mm Railgun II, Spike L
Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Hobgoblin II x5 Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x5
194km optimal. Will go into half armour from a doomsday.
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Felix Dzerzhinsky
Caldari Wreckless Abandon G00DFELLAS
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Posted - 2008.10.10 22:02:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Reaver One
Notes: 1. I've been told not to rig fleet snipers, but I figure if I've got the scratch, why not do it? 2. I have FW fleet sniping experience, but none in 0.0 (which is what I'm trying to design for), so if the above looks like a ****** made it, that's why. 3. I have no idea what kind of tank is required to resist a DD, so if someone knows (and if the above ain't cutting it), please share with the class. 4. I hate trying to jam a MWD on this boat. I don't have to do it for low-sec (no bubbles, whee!), and it absolutely kills the cap, the tank and the teeth of this boat. So I'm *****ing at you about it for some reason. So there. 5. I've read oodles of Rokh setup threads. Most of them list the standard setup with absolutely no tank and too much range. So I made this thing. 6. All stats are at my current skill levels. It probably looks better with all fives, but I ain't that guy.
1) Do not rig fleet snipers - death is random and a few rigs will make no difference whatsoever. If you begin to feel like you are surviving more - its a matter of luck - just like surviving any major fleet battle.
3) 80k HP, I would not worry too much - the best defense against a DD is to warp out. If there is suddenly a DD on you, its your FCs fault for being pre-occupied with less important things.
4) MWD is a requirement. Don't even try with ABs or any of that stuff.
5) yes, tank is meaningless except in RR gangs - where the Raven is superior anyway. THe Rokh is a super specilized sniper. . .using it with blasters and other odds and ends works because other people suck - not because the ship is any good.
6) You need to work with 425s. and your skills seem high enough - if you have Cal BB 4, think long and hard if this is the BB race you want. Other races BBs can be trained while you use this ship - and your BB 5 has a large part in determining your capital race. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2008.10.10 23:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Lots of Rokh advice.
Merin, for somebody with such a confident opinion about the Rohk, you don't seem to pilot it much...
Taxman VI: Voided Ledger
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.11 06:18:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Re: Spike L:
The first setup I posted hits out to the lock range cap with CN Iridium, doing the same damage as Spike but with better tracking. Spike would give you 400km optimal, but sadly you don't get to use it. Of course at anything less than 250km, faction ammo will out-damage Spike by a considerable margin.
Ahh of course, damn i wish CCP would increase the max range of sensor boosters, WTF happened to sand-box play style with limits on sb range?? Awesome EVE history
Missiles ba-oom! |
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
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Posted - 2008.10.11 06:20:00 -
[26]
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Re: Spike L:
The first setup I posted hits out to the lock range cap with CN Iridium, doing the same damage as Spike but with better tracking. Spike would give you 400km optimal, but sadly you don't get to use it. Of course at anything less than 250km, faction ammo will out-damage Spike by a considerable margin.
Ahh of course, damn i wish CCP would increase the max range of sensor boosters, WTF happened to sand-box play style with limits on sb range??
I rather strongly suspect that it's a limitation called "grid".
-Liang --
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BiggestT
Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.10.11 07:22:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: BiggestT
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Re: Spike L:
The first setup I posted hits out to the lock range cap with CN Iridium, doing the same damage as Spike but with better tracking. Spike would give you 400km optimal, but sadly you don't get to use it. Of course at anything less than 250km, faction ammo will out-damage Spike by a considerable margin.
Ahh of course, damn i wish CCP would increase the max range of sensor boosters, WTF happened to sand-box play style with limits on sb range??
I rather strongly suspect that it's a limitation called "grid".
-Liang
Its odd though, ive seen ships on grid more than 600km away, it wasnt desynch, just a large grid. Ud think sensor boosters wld work the same was as titan dd's do, which work effectively for the whole grid and not just 249km (I think) Awesome EVE history
Missiles ba-oom! |
Terraunit
Caldari Imperium Forces
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Posted - 2008.10.11 13:56:00 -
[28]
80k eft is a shame for this beast of a ship..... my setup goes: 3 PDS 1 DC2 1 mag\tracking enhancer (mag for 200km+250dps - tracking enhancer is 200dps+250km) 1MWD, 1 LSE 2 invuls 2 SB's ( heat the invuls and ur resits got through the roof) 8 425's, and yes i use spike 5 med shield rep drones rigs: 3 shield extender rigs
this thing acually lasts long enough to get repped while fighting and getting primeried, its dual DD proof without the fleet bonuses. The eft is awsome and the dps is enough for a fleet vessel. ive been DD'D several time and its a blast surviving them. even when u see the rest of ur mates in wrecks, and u just warp so a safe,hehe. With AWU5 u can fit an extra mag stab if u like and dropping a PDS. its cap stable if u fire tungsten, wich got a range of about 150km, great for POS takedowns if u need to snipe it. Yes it does cost some but then again its one hell of a ship, and a scimitars dream.
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Meihdron
Lyonesse. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.22 17:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Terraunit 80k eft is a shame for this beast of a ship..... my setup goes: 3 PDS 1 DC2 1 mag\tracking enhancer (mag for 200km+250dps - tracking enhancer is 200dps+250km) 1MWD, 1 LSE 2 invuls 2 SB's ( heat the invuls and ur resits got through the roof) 8 425's, and yes i use spike 5 med shield rep drones rigs: 3 shield extender rigs
And what exactly are you going to do after 5 minutes ? (thats the time your capping out....) Shake your fist at your screen ?
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Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
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Posted - 2008.10.22 17:59:00 -
[30]
Regarding Spike, aside form being total overkill on a Rokh and killing your tracking, it eats a lot more cap than long-range faction ammo. The only time you should really use Spike on a Rokh is if you're flying a non-fleet fit and suddenly have to shoot further than you usually do.
Hitting out to 200km is nice, but a lot of the fleet fights that I've been are more focused on a 150km range. 200km gimps your fit to much IMHO unless there is a specific reason to be able to hit that far (i.e. you're in a BS squad composed entirely of ships that can hit that far).
For long fights and/or POS shoots, relying on a cap booster will greatly reduce the amount of time that you can stay on the field; you have less ammo and a limited supply of cap boosters. It's tricky, but you can fit a Rokh and evan a Mega to hit at 150km with faction ammo and be cap stable without a cap booster. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne |
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